blueAgent:
What do you think is the Soul?

"Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life
(i.e. for everything you do flows from the heart)"
- Proverbs 4:23

"The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart.
For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks"
- Luke 6:45

blueAgent, I am 110% sure you'll agree and accept that, it is the Soul that is saved even Ezekiel 18:20 emphatically states that: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die.", it doesnt say its the Body or the Spirit. Now, the heart is used by the Soul but the heart definitely is not the Spirit

Let me slip this bit in, first, as a preamble. Proverbs 4:23 and Luke 6:45 above, informs us that, it's out of the abundance of the heart first, then processed in the brain or mind, before the mouth speaks. All evil intents comes forth out of the heart, as in, the heart housed in the human Body. Mark 7:21-22, paints a picture of the heart with the following: "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness" and Jeremiah 17:9 doesnt paint the heart in good light either, as it says: "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"

Incidentally, the verse, Psalms 51:10, informatively tells us, that the heart is linked with the mind, which is part of the Soul. The same Soul or psyche uses the heart as an outlet, to pass out or pass in things, from the Body and/or Spirit via the heart in the Soul. I'll soon below explain how it does this and/or how this works

What is man?
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul (i.e. a psyche). In fact, Man is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. As a matter of fact, the Soul or psyche, has the Body and Spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a Soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit.

Genesis 2:7 and Job 33:4 above, informs us, its "ruach" the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated.

Now blueAgent, please dont try to mix up "ruach" and "neshamah" with ordinary and/or commonplace spirits, as in meaning, dont try to mix up the Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with extraterrestrial beings, which is what evil and good spirits are.

Fyi, "ruach", in Hebrew, with its corresponding Greek word "pneuma" essentially and in an almost oversimplified way means force. It is breath, wind, spirit of God, all rolled in as one thing. It in a sense, is the invisible force or power of God, hence why being perceived as a Spirit, so yes, "ruach" is the Spirit of God. In fact you wont wrong in saying that "ruach" or "Ha Ruach Ha Kodesh" is the Holy Spirit, as in, the Spirit of God.

You can see both "ruach" and "neshamah" being interplayed in the creation of man from Genesis 2:7 reproduced above, and as a witness plus as a supporting verse, Job 33:4 you see reproduced above, confirms, by testifying, that, its "ruach" that made man and it is "neshamah" that gives man life

"Neshamah", incidentally, is actually derived from another Hebrew word called "nasham" that means to pant and/or blow away with air, now, when the spirit, as in, meaning, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the Body slumps and the Soul goes into comatose. This looks and feels, similar to a TV animated cartoon changed and turned into a cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper. TV animated cartoon characters moves, but cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper dont move like animated cartoon characters watched on TV screens. For the life of the body is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the spirit. When the spirit leaves the body, it returns back to God, leaving the body inanimate, meaning leaves it motionless and lifeless, as in, without life or no more with life. Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
- Ecclesiastes 12:7

Now, moving further on, the Spirit and Soul have different faculties, where the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, while the faculties of the Soul are made up of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions. The Body is not left out, it has 5 faculties of senses, and these are, sight, as in to see via the eyes, hearing, as in hear via the ears, touch, as in, feel via applicable part of the body, smell, as in, perceive via the nose and last but not the least, taste, as in, sense with the mouth.

The Body is worldly conscious and relates to the environment and its surroundings, the Soul is self conscious and relates to self & other people and the Spirit is God conscious and relates to God. After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

Now, remember blueAgent, that your question was: "What do I think is the Soul?" Well, my intro response is, the Soul, biblically speaking, is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about and over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, getting started proper, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul, by way of the Body and Spirit. The Soul, as a matter of fact and in effect, is the mediator between the Body and Spirit. The Soul uses the heart, as the point from where issues are sent out and/or distributed from.

Let me elaborate and explain a bit how everything works, the different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information here, is very important to grasp, and it is that, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving these things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into the Spirit's laps.

Fya blueAgent, please note, anywhere in the post you see "Spirit", unless it is stated otherwise, take it, to mean, as in, spirit-man, and not the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. Thank you

Now, this here, is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or what it is picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor. Caveat emptor clause #1 done.

The devil has no power over anyone, except if such person, is in the dark, dabbling in the dark or is ignorant, so I'll advise the curious to distance themselves from dabbling into the dark, to save themselves from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to dine and eat with. Caveat emptor clause #2 done.

Resuming and back on track, now, if the Soul picks up an interaction, info, instruction, message, communication, issue etcetera from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit the Soul received from the Body and put into the Spirit will be unfruitful then (i.e. remember the red emboldened above hmm?) The thing here, is that, the Spirit, by the God design, knows what it expects from the Soul for positive fruition to be possible but the Soul has received from the Body something it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand or know about. Wahala don begin to gas be dat ooo. Now, just as in the physical, when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue, so it is spiritually, the Spirit, intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul, as a conduit, a vent hole determines what the Spirit receives, but if the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. like not praying right, not asking right, not the will of God etctera) then the Spirit, does the wordless groans. It does this because the spirit-man knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight. The Spirit, as in, the spirit-man, is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods I am expecting, please dont feed me with trash, junk and any of all these ungodly razzmatazz stuffs. So since the Spirit, is capable of asking and telling the Soul what it needs, the Soul just has to return back to the Body to honour the request and be asking the Body for correct or "kosher" stuff and not the crap its received

Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit, is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit, and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit , knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body) but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit, by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit.

There is a rule, that the Spirit, cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul. Hmm, I perceive someone's going to trip at this point, so OK, here is the clarification to ward off any confusion:
The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body, if the seed is able to bear fruit and is meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit, will then fertilise the ''seed'' and return it back to the Body, via the Soul, bumper harvest fruitfully. Call it positive and welcome payback, if you like.

So, in effect, the Soul feeds the Spirit, and the Soul receives from the Spirit, to feed the Body. This is the reason, why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret, to then, successfully feed the Spirit or the Body.

blueAgent, do you ever recoil back, when watching something gruesome happening in real life or maybe just on a TV screen slash internet, as in, like in a horror film or something? If you do, well that's your spirit, as in your spirit-man, not wanting to be needlessly grieved. Sometimes, you have to protect the gateway to your spirit-man because you might not necessarily want to relive or remember that moment, so you block any avenue, contact or link to that thing happening or going on at that moment of time. What is happening here, is you preventing your spirit-man from being fed with junk. You are protecting your heart and shielding it from receiving and/or taking in from junk. You are blocking the faculties from transferring junk to the Soul via the heart.

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth"
- 3 John 1:2

As seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all. Of course, the ability of the Soul to prosper or be held back to any degree, is dependent on the Spirit, getting the right detail, at which to relay back to the Body via the Soul at a latter date, future or time, as and when needed.

This is another God design, quest for quality GIGO and QIQO system set-up. GIGO is an ancroymn for "Garbage in, Garbage out" and QIQO is an ancroymn for "Quality in, Quality out" If the Soul sends in shiit to the Spirit, the Soul gets shiit back from the Spirit. It just implies that bad input by the Soul will result in bad output in return, sent back from the Spirit to the Soul. Ultimately too, the Body, at the receiving end of it all, gets the flawed and nonsense input data from the Soul, this comes by nonsense output garbage obtained from the Spirit that originally and in first place was sent in from the Soul coming from one or more of the Body's faculties (e.g. eyes, ears, touch, mouth, smell)

blueAgent:
and if what goes to Heaven or Hell is the soul then why do we have a resurrection?

"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay."
- Psalm 16:10

blueAgent, you're too heavy to want to fall for my hand now, please dont. Biko, jor abeg. The soul of Jesus, not being left in Sheol, aka hell/hades, is King David's Psalm 16:10 prophecy being fulfilled. Everything written about Jesus, in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms were each and every one fulfilled, and so we have it that the soul of Jesus was not abandoned in Sheol nor His body decayed. Praise God. Alleluia.

Now, blueAgent, when our Lord Jesus Christ resurrected, He resurrected with a glorified body. Need I go on, need I say more, if not, then I rest my case then.

After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

I guess blueAgent that you'll agree that the devil and demons are souless, meaning they have no soul. Now, the reason why the devil and the demons are inredeemable is because of the fact that they have no souls. The devil and the demons, are not able to be saved, be improved, or be corrected because of the mere fact that they lack a soul. The devil and the demons, to start with, unlike human beings, havent got diddly squat souls to make better, to make more desirable, satisfactory and/or effective.

MuttleyLaff:


Go and sit down jor. Mr Coach, fyi, Elijah was teleported, as in, got translated elsewhere, then like every other human being died.

The next fyi for you Mr Coach, is that, what John, Peter and James, in Matthew 17:3 saw, of Elijah and Moses, was a vision, its nothing more, nothing less than that and the vision happened, to serve as a symbolism of handing over. In that vision, the inner caucus trio disciples witnessed, Elijah representing the prophets and Moses representing the Law, updating Jesus and then after giving over control and responsibility to Jesus, to forge ahead, go make a reality of and finish the redemptive work in a burst of power and might.

see this one oooooh huh! Elijah was teleported to somewhere else and died there by your own bible right the one you wrote in aba! bros! that's not what bible says about Elijah sir! and that of moses and Elijah seen by the three disciples , bible says they came to console Christ! and still remain one about that the rich man and the Lazarus! if there is no eternity Jesus will not let you know what happened to that rich man and Lazarus after death! read your bible let holy interpret it for you!

MuttleyLaff:
"Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life
(i.e. for everything you do flows from the heart)"
- Proverbs 4:23

"The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart.
For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks"
- Luke 6:45

blueAgent, I am 110% sure you'll agree and accept that, it is the Soul that is saved even Ezekiel 18:20 emphatically states that: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die.", it doesnt say its the Body or the Spirit. Now, the heart is used by the Soul but the heart definitely is not the Spirit

Let me slip this bit in, first, as a preamble. Proverbs 4:23 and Luke 6:45 above, informs us that, it's out of the abundance of the heart first, then processed in the brain or mind, before the mouth speaks. All evil intents comes forth out of the heart, as in, the heart housed in the human Body. Mark 7:21-22, paints a picture of the heart with the following: "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness" and Jeremiah 17:9 doesnt paint the heart in good light either, as it says: "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"

Incidentally, the verse, Psalms 51:10, informatively tells us, that the heart is linked with the mind, which is part of the Soul. The same Soul or psyche uses the heart as an outlet, to pass out or pass in things, from the Body and/or Spirit via the heart in the Soul. I'll soon below explain how it does this and/or how this works

What is man?
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul (i.e. a psyche). In fact, Man is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. As a matter of fact, the Soul or psyche, has the Body and Spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a Soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit.

Genesis 2:7 and Job 33:4 above, informs us, its "ruach" the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated.

Now blueAgent, please dont try to mix up "ruach" and "neshamah" with ordinary and/or commonplace spirits, as in meaning, dont try to mix up the Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with extraterrestrial beings, which is what evil and good spirits are.

Fyi, "ruach", in Hebrew, with its corresponding Greek word "pneuma" essentially and in an almost oversimplified way means force. It is breath, wind, spirit of God, all rolled in as one thing. It in a sense, is the invisible force or power of God, hence why being perceived as a Spirit, so yes, "ruach" is the Spirit of God. In fact you wont wrong in saying that "ruach" or "Ha Ruach Ha Kodesh" is the Holy Spirit, as in, the Spirit of God.

You can see both "ruach" and "neshamah" being interplayed in the creation of man from Genesis 2:7 reproduced above, and as a witness plus as a supporting verse, Job 33:4 you see reproduced above, confirms, by testifying, that, its "ruach" that made man and it is "neshamah" that gives man life

"Neshamah", incidentally, is actually derived from another Hebrew word called "nasham" that means to pant and/or blow away with air, now, when the spirit, as in, meaning, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the Body slumps and the Soul goes into comatose. This looks and feels, similar to a TV animated cartoon changed and turned into a cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper. TV animated cartoon characters moves, but cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper dont move like animated cartoon characters watched on TV screens. For the life of the body is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the spirit. When the spirit leaves the body, it returns back to God, leaving the body inanimate, meaning leaves it motionless and lifeless, as in, without life or no more with life. Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
- Ecclesiastes 12:7

Now, moving further on, the Spirit and Soul have different faculties, where the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, while the faculties of the Soul are made up of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions. The Body is not left out, it has 5 faculties of senses, and these are, sight, as in to see via the eyes, hearing, as in hear via the ears, touch, as in, feel via applicable part of the body, smell, as in, perceive via the nose and last but not the least, taste, as in, sense with the mouth.

The Body is worldly conscious and relates to the environment and its surroundings, the Soul is self conscious and relates to self & other people and the Spirit is God conscious and relates to God. After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

Now, remember blueAgent, that your question was: "What do I think is the Soul?" Well, my intro response is, the Soul, biblically speaking, is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about and over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, getting started proper, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul, by way of the Body and Spirit. The Soul, as a matter of fact and in effect, is the mediator between the Body and Spirit. The Soul uses the heart, as the point from where issues are sent out and/or distributed from.

Let me elaborate and explain a bit how everything works, the different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information here, is very important to grasp, and it is that, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving these things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into the Spirit's laps.

Fya blueAgent, please note, anywhere in the post you see "Spirit", unless it is stated otherwise, take it, to mean, as in, spirit-man, and not the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. Thank you

Now, this here, is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or what it is picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor. Caveat emptor clause #1 done.

The devil has no power over anyone, except if such person, is in the dark, dabbling in the dark or is ignorant, so I'll advise the curious to distance themselves from dabbling into the dark, to save themselves from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to dine and eat with. Caveat emptor clause #2 done.

Resuming and back on track, now, if the Soul picks up an interaction, info, instruction, message, communication, issue etcetera from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit the Soul received from the Body and put into the Spirit will be unfruitful then (i.e. remember the red emboldened above hmm?) The thing here, is that, the Spirit, by the God design, knows what it expects from the Soul for positive fruition to be possible but the Soul has received from the Body something it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand or know about. Wahala don begin to gas be dat ooo. Now, just as in the physical, when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue, so it is spiritually, the Spirit, intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul, as a conduit, a vent hole determines what the Spirit receives, but if the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. like not praying right, not asking right, not the will of God etctera) then the Spirit, does the wordless groans. It does this because the spirit-man knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight. The Spirit, as in, the spirit-man, is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods I am expecting, please dont feed me with trash, junk and any of all these ungodly razzmatazz stuffs. So since the Spirit, is capable of asking and telling the Soul what it needs, the Soul just has to return back to the Body to honour the request and be asking the Body for correct or "kosher" stuff and not the crap its received

Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit, is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit, and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit , knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body) but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit, by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit.

There is a rule, that the Spirit, cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul. Hmm, I perceive someone's going to trip at this point, so OK, here is the clarification to ward off any confusion:
The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body, if the seed is able to bear fruit and is meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit, will then fertilise the ''seed'' and return it back to the Body, via the Soul, bumper harvest fruitfully. Call it positive and welcome payback, if you like.

So, in effect, the Soul feeds the Spirit, and the Soul receives from the Spirit, to feed the Body. This is the reason, why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret, to then, successfully feed the Spirit or the Body.

blueAgent, do you ever recoil back, when watching something gruesome happening in real life or maybe just on a TV screen slash internet, as in, like in a horror film or something? If you do, well that's your spirit, as in your spirit-man, not wanting to be needlessly grieved. Sometimes, you have to protect the gateway to your spirit-man because you might not necessarily want to relive or remember that moment, so you block any avenue, contact or link to that thing happening or going on at that moment of time. What is happening here, is you preventing your spirit-man from being fed with junk. You are protecting your heart and shielding it from receiving and/or taking in from junk. You are blocking the faculties from transferring junk to the Soul via the heart.

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth"
- 3 John 1:2

As seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all. Of course, the ability of the Soul to prosper or be held back to any degree, is dependent on the Spirit, getting the right detail, at which to relay back to the Body via the Soul at a latter date, future or time, as and when needed.

This is another God design, quest for quality GIGO and QIQO system set-up. GIGO is an ancroymn for "Garbage in, Garbage out" and QIQO is an ancroymn for "Quality in, Quality out" If the Soul sends in shiit to the Spirit, the Soul gets shiit back from the Spirit. It just implies that bad input by the Soul will result in bad output in return, sent back from the Spirit to the Soul. Ultimately too, the Body, at the receiving end of it all, gets the flawed and nonsense input data from the Soul, this comes by nonsense output garbage obtained from the Spirit that originally and in first place was sent in from the Soul coming from one or more of the Body's faculties (e.g. eyes, ears, touch, mouth, smell)

"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay."
- Psalm 16:10

blueAgent, you're too heavy to want to fall for my hand now, please dont. Biko, jor abeg. The soul of Jesus, not being left in Sheol, aka hell/hades, is King David's Psalm 16:10 prophecy being fulfilled. Everything written about Jesus, in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms were each and every one fulfilled, and so we have it that the soul of Jesus was not abandoned in Sheol nor His body decayed. Praise God. Alleluia.

Now, blueAgent, when our Lord Jesus Christ resurrected, He resurrected with a glorified body. Need I go on, need I say more, if not, then I rest my case then.

After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

I guess blueAgent that you'll agree that the devil and demons are souless, meaning they have no soul. Now, the reason why the devil and the demons are inredeemable is because of the fact that they have no souls. The devil and the demons, are not able to be saved, be improved, or be corrected because of the mere fact that they lack a soul. The devil and the demons, to start with, unlike human beings, havent got diddly squat souls to make better, to make more desirable, satisfactory and/or effective.

you are quoting out of point view of bible sir! Satan started from the beginning and Jesus said he has been judged meaning condemned now there is different between evil spirit, Satan,demons and dark angels! pls. spirits don't die is either you take it or leave it ! every spirit is eternal either in bondage, in the lake of fire that burn forever ask yourself why would the fire forever if the prisoners can die?

jcross19:
see this one oooooh huh! Elijah was teleported to somewhere else and died there by your own bible right the one you wrote in aba! bros! that's not what bible says about Elijah sir! and that of moses and Elijah seen by the three disciples , bible says they came to console Christ! and still remain one about that the rich man and the Lazarus! if there is no eternity Jesus will not let you know what happened to that rich man and Lazarus after death! read your bible let holy interpret it for you!

Did you not read in your Bible that it was a vision of Elijah and Moses that James, John and Peter saw ni? Console kor, computer sega games console ni. Even after I had earlier explained the significance and symbolism of the meeting of Elijah and Moses with Jesus, you're still talking of console, smh. Abeggy comot for road jor, allow beta pipul pass.

MuttleyLaff:
Did you not read in your Bible that it was a vision of Elijah and Moses that James, John and Peter saw ni? Console kor, computer sega games console ni. Even after I had earlier explained the significance and symbolism of the meeting of Elijah and Moses with Jesus, you're still talking of console, smh. Abeggy comot for road jor, allow beta pipul pass.

you are tyro to that verses your quoted and you know nothing about it and what interpreted is never the meaning of that transfiguration!.

MuttleyLaff:
Did you not read in your Bible that it was a vision of Elijah and Moses that James, John and Peter saw ni? Console kor, computer sega games console ni. Even after I had earlier explained the significance and symbolism of the meeting of Elijah and Moses with Jesus, you're still talking of console, smh. Abeggy comot for road jor, allow beta pipul pass.

you are just misinterpreting bible thinking you are wise but a salt without savour ! may God show you mercy! now in Luke 9vs 29: And as He prayed,the fashion of his countenance was altered ,and His raiment was white and glistering. 30 :And behold, there talked with Him tow men, which were moses and Elias or Elijah . 31: who appeared in glory , and spake of His decease which He should accomplish in Jerusalem! Now in some translation it was written as CONSOLE. those men came with message from the source to Him ! the significant of their coming is written there clearly no need to interpret nonsense !. very funny!!!!.

blueAgent:


If Man's spirit can not die than Man has Immortality.

but that is not possible because only God has Immortality.and man is called mortal Bible meaning he can die.

Job 4:17
Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be
more pure than his maker?

The Devil can die because he is a created being who has a beginning and also an end.

His death was pronounced by God through prophet Ezekiel.



Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Am still wondering after I read this verse rev.20vs10 says And the devil that deceived them was cast into lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophets are, and shall be tormented DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER meaning eternity can a mortal soul suffer for ever and ever if not immortal?

blueAgent:



Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When someone dies the body turns to dust while the spirit which is the breathe from a God returns to him is a simple as that we don't need to over emphasis it or speculate on how it happens.
What we know is that God can take and would take back the breathe or his spirit when a person dies.
The spirit does not exist independently it comes from God as a thoughtless force which powers the body to become a soul.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

First you need to understand that the word Spirit when used in the Bible can mean 3different things *Which are a living being like God,Angels,
*It can mean the mind,will,thought, zeal, imagination.
*It can also mean life or breathe.
depending on the context in which it is applied.

In Hebrews 12:23 considering the context in which it is applied we can confidently say that the Bible verse is referring to the mind and thoughts of the just men.
The Bible verse did not say that this men or their spirit were in Heaven but that they had a their names or testimony written in Heaven.

Here is another clue.

Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I agree that we don't need to speculate on what happens after we die, but that is what you seem to me to have gone ahead and done.

When you say, "The spirit does not exist independently it comes from God as a thoughtless force which powers the body to become a soul," I don't see where or how this is said in the Bible at all. It sounds just like speculation, especially of the unwarranted sort, to me, since God being uncreated and not at all material does not breathe, so that when we are told of "the breath of God," the Scriptures obviously do not mean "air" or anything of the sort. So, how do you arrive at the above?

When you say that the word spirit can mean "the mind,will,thought, zeal, imagination," where is this in the Bible? How does this agree with the following?

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 KJV

Should we assume that it means that the mind, will, thought, zeal, and imagination of animals go downward to the earth? Is that what Solomon meant here?

About Hebrews 12:23, when you say, "the Bible verse did not say that this men or their spirit were in Heaven but that they had a their names or testimony written in Heaven," this is what the passage actually says:

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV

That is, it is the whole Church that is written in heaven, not just the spirits of these just men. But the Scripture actually says that we have come to the spirits of these men made perfect. If the idea had been to tell us that we have come to their "mind and thoughts" or to their "names and testimonies" written in Heaven, then it was not necessary to say "and to the spirits of just men made perfect" after saying "to the general assembly, the Church of the firstborn which is written in Heaven," since they are part of the general assembly and the Church of the first born.

I'm afraid I don't understand your reference to Hebrews 13:21.

blueAgent:




What Does "For Ever and Ever" Mean?
In general, the Greek word aion is translated: forever. However
its real meaning is "Age ". There are actually two meanings for
the word " Age"
1. "Age " can mean a human lifetime, or life itself. So it
can be a limited time, as long as someone is going to
live.
2. "Age " can also mean an unbroken age, perpetuity of
time, or an eternity. So it can mean forever and ever.
Basically, if the subject is God or Jesus, since they exist in
eternity, the meaning of "Age " would be an unbroken age, or
an eternity. On the other hand, if the subject is referring to
finite human beings, then the meaning of "Age " would be
limited to the life-span of a human lifetime.
In the Greek New Testament, "Age " almost always refers to the
subject of Jesus or God. Since He lives forever, the time that
is meant is forever or for an eternity. However in the Old
Testament, we have many examples where forever only
means the life-time of an individual. The Hebrew language can
have the same two meanings. Here is an example, in Old
Testament Hebrew, where forever only means how long a
person will live.


Most of the book of Revelation where in written in symbolic pattern the cannot be taken or understood literally.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

This verse expresses God's just nature , the purpose of this verse is to convey the message that God still remembers and would reward those who died for his name.
The Alter symbolizes their faith and salvation.

If we take this verse literally it will contracdicts many other Bible verses and the word of God. because God's word says that the dead know nothing, it also says that the dead cannot praise God.
If this saints were alive why can't they praise God?

Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

The Bible calls death a sleep, just like one doesn't know anything happening around him when sleeping so also one who is dead.

The bible says that Stephen the first martyrs fell asleep (died).

Acts 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Luke 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Acts 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Regarding this, "Here is an example, in Old
Testament Hebrew, where forever only means how long a person will live," it appears that you forgot to include the example you meant to give.

Regarding this, "Most of the book of Revelation where in written in symbolic pattern the cannot be taken or understood literally," I don't see where the Bible says this at all. How did you come to this conclusion? I do know that there are symbols and metaphors in Revelation, but they are all obvious, and they are certainly not "most of the book of Revelation." Take the Altar in question, for example. The Lord said to Moses, "see to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown to you on the Mountain," (Exodus 25:40), and Paul says that there is a true tabernacle pitched by the Lord, not man, of which the tabernacle made by Moses was only a shadow (Hebrews 8:2,5). That is to say that the Altar is absolutely real and material. It was not a mere symbol at all. So, I don't see how you are correct in this.

As for "forever and ever," I already agree that it can mean different things, so that is not the question I am asking. I am asking you how we can tell which is meant. Your answer is that if a human being is in view then it is only until the end of their lives, but if that is the case, why would the Lord say the following?

41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:41-46 NASB

If this is happening after these people have died, then "forever" doesn't mean "until the end of their lives. Also, if the punishment is eternal, then it coincides very well with the "forever" torment of Revelation.

As for sleep, this is something else that Paul said:

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better...
Philippians 1:23 KJV

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:1 (KJV)

How is one with Christ when they are extinct? Considering also that the Greek in verse 3 actually reads, "and [even] if we do put off this present one, at any rate we (i.e. our spirits) will not be found naked," (courtesy of https://ichthys.com), how do people who are asleep still get a covering for their spirits with which to be with the Lord while they wait for Resurrection?

As for the dead being incapable of doing anything, I think it is obvious that those who have died believing are no longer facing the troubles of this life, so they can no longer express the "praise" that we do for deliverance out of our many troubles. Theirs is a state of rest now. Do you disagree with this?

How about this example too?

7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. 9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die? 10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? 17 And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
1 Samuel 28:7 (KJV)

If Samuel was extinct or unconscious, how was he able to come and speak to Saul? And what did he mean by Saul and his sons would be with him by the next day? How would they be with him if they were going to be extinct?

Finally, sleep is not the same as extinction. It can be rest and/or unconsciousness, depending on how it is used, but it never means extinction. Given everything the Bible says about death, sleep makes sense for describing dead believers because they are said to be in or at rest from the wars of this life. We are, after all, fighting the fight of faith, as Paul put it. Do you disagree?

blueAgent:



The torment will happen at the end of the World when Christ returns to judge man.
It will happen here on Earth, the Hellfire talked about in the Bible is the Earth envloped in fire.


2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.




The torment will happen at the end of the World when Christ returns to judge man.
It will happen here on Earth, the Hellfire talked about in the Bible is the Earth envloped in fire.


2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

If, as you say, the torment will happen at the end of the world, then "forever" in that case cannot mean "until the end of their lives," since they are already dead. Also, the end of the world is also the end of time. So, this judgment is happening at the end of time, so "forever" cannot mean "until the end of time," it means something outside of time in this case. It would seem then that you are quite wrong.

As for where this is happening, this is what the Bible actually says,

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11 (KJV)

That is, just as Peter said (2 Peter 3:10-12), this present creation is removed from existence with fire. It doesn't stick around burning forever. Even if it did though (and, as I just showed you, it doesn't), this is not happening while these people live here on Earth. It is happening after they have died and been resurrected by the Lord for judgment. What the Scriptures actually say is that these people are consigned to the Lake of Fire where the Antichrist and his prophet already were from a thousand years before (Revelation 20:10; 19:20), which also shows not only that the Lake is not on Earth, since the Lord rules the Earth for a thousand years after throwing the Antichrist and his prophet into it, but also that "forever" lasted even past the Glorious Millennium for the Antichrist and his prophet. So, I don't see what you are saying in the Bible at all.

...Continued below...

Edited.

...Continued from above...

blueAgent:






The Smoke of Their Torment
1. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and
ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship
the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark
of his name. Revelation 14:11
Here is another interesting note: "The smoke of their torment
ascendeth up for ever and ever", from Revelation 14:11
obviously comes from Isaiah 34:10. It is the description of the
destruction and desolation of Edom. Most of the book of
Revelation actually is connected with the Old Testament.
1. It shall not be quenched night or day; Its smoke
shall ascend forever . From generation to generation it
shall lie waste; No one shall pass through it forever
and ever . Isaiah 34:10
It is clear that Isaiah was not saying that the smoke would be
ascending forever since he also says that the land would then
become a waste for generations. He says that it would be a
place that only wild animals would inhabit. The animals
would take over the land.
1. But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it. And He shall
stretch out over it The line of confusion and the stones of
emptiness.
2. They shall call its nobles to the kingdom, But none
shall be there, and all its princes shall be nothing.
3. And thorns shall come up in its palaces, Nettles and
brambles in its fortresses; It shall be a habitation of
jackals, A courtyard for ostriches.
4. The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with
the jackals, And the wild goat shall bleat to its
companion; Also the night creature shall rest there, And
find for herself a place of rest.
5. There the arrow snake shall make her nest and lay
eggs And hatch, and gather them under her shadow;
There also shall the hawks be gathered, Every one with
her mate. Isaiah 34:11-15
The description of the smoke, is only a temporary action.
Once the smoke is gone, then the animals take over. So, this
text really speaks of complete destruction, not that the smoke
would be forever rising, but that it would become a wasteland.
The fire would do its job and then nothing would be left. If the
area would be forever burning and smokey, the wild animals
would never inhabit the area. Animals run away from smoke
and fire.
The destruction of Edom matches the destruction of the
wicked at the end. They will also vanish away once the fire
does its job of destroying the wicked.
20. But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of
the LORD , Like the splendor of the meadows, shall
vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away . Psalm 37:
20.
So in this case the word " forever", only means for as long as
Edom burned. And in Revelation, "forever" only means for as
long as the wicked burn. The fire will not be quenched until
everything is burned up.

So, the Lake of Fire is really Edom, not the planet Earth as you first surmised? Do I understand you correctly?

If you argue that it is not Edom, but the planet Earth, not only do we not have any biblical proof that this is so, but we also know that the Earth and the heavens are burned up before the Judgment of the Great White Throne, so how could that be where the unrighteous are burnt until they are consumed?

As I said above, it is hard to see how you are right in the face of Revelation 19:20 and 20:10. It seems quite obvious to me that the burning lasts much longer, and occurs after life. In fact, going by Matthew 25, the punishment is eternal, without any termination at all. It seems clear to me that it takes interpretive gymnastics and some rejection of clear statements in the Bible to hold the position that you do.

jcross19:
you are tyro to that verses your quoted and you know nothing about it and what interpreted is never the meaning of that transfiguration!.

I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I didn't know nothing. I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I did know anything about what I talked about. I stand by everything I wrote earlier, even if it means that I stand alone, and that I repeat is, what John, Peter and James, in Matthew 17:3 saw, of Elijah and Moses, was a vision, its nothing more, nothing less than that and the vision happened, to serve as a symbolism of handing over. In that vision, the inner caucus trio disciples witnessed, Elijah representing the prophets and Moses representing the Law, updating Jesus and then after giving over control and responsibility to Jesus, to forge ahead, go make a reality of and finish the redemptive work in a burst of power and might. Praise God. Alleluia

jcross19, your problem is that, you're suffering from the "crab, pull other crab down" mentality. I know your types and know how your types behaves, this is why I am not bothered taking you to task on your "... now in some translation it was written as CONSOLE" comment that you pulled out of the rear end. Smh.

Why cant you just be happy, hmm? Why do you have to be ugly, bitter and antagonistic, erhn? Pulling someone down doesnt help anyone reach the top and sustain the height, so my dear nwanne jcross19, please stop the crab in a bucket mentality. Stop the díck comparison. Stop the how dare you attitude, stop the how can your díck be bigger and better than my díck mentality. Thank you.

MuttleyLaff:
I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I didn't know nothing. I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I did know anything about what I talked about. I stand by everything I wrote earlier, even if it means that I stand alone, and that I repeat is, what John, Peter and James, in Matthew 17:3 saw, of Elijah and Moses, was a vision, its nothing more, nothing less than that and the vision happened, to serve as a symbolism of handing over. In that vision, the inner caucus trio disciples witnessed, Elijah representing the prophets and Moses representing the Law, updating Jesus and then after giving over control and responsibility to Jesus, to forge ahead, go make a reality of and finish the redemptive work in a burst of power and might. Praise God. Alleluia

jcross19, your problem is that, you're suffering from the "crab, pull other crab down" mentality. I know your types and know how your types behaves, this is why I am not bothered taking you to task on your "... now in some translation it was written as CONSOLE" that you pulled out of the rear end. Smh.

Why cant you just be happy, hmm? Why do you have to be ugly, bitter and antagonistic, erhn? Pulling someone down doesnt help anyone reach the top and sustain the height, so my dear nwanne jcross19, please stop the crab in a bucket mentality. Stop the díck comparison. Stop the how dare you attitude, stop the how can your díck be bigger and better than my díck mentality. Thank you.

Elijah did not represent anything sir! both of them came to pass a message to Christ sir!!! mind you there is no where it's written that Jesus was seen a vision their visit is never a vision sir!. if it was a vision bible will state it as a vision.

MuttleyLaff:
I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I didn't know nothing. I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I did know anything about what I talked about. I stand by everything I wrote earlier, even if it means that I stand alone, and that I repeat is, what John, Peter and James, in Matthew 17:3 saw, of Elijah and Moses, was a vision, its nothing more, nothing less than that and the vision happened, to serve as a symbolism of handing over. In that vision, the inner caucus trio disciples witnessed, Elijah representing the prophets and Moses representing the Law, updating Jesus and then after giving over control and responsibility to Jesus, to forge ahead, go make a reality of and finish the redemptive work in a burst of power and might. Praise God. Alleluia

jcross19, your problem is that, you're suffering from the "crab, pull other crab down" mentality. I know your types and know how your types behaves, this is why I am not bothered taking you to task on your "... now in some translation it was written as CONSOLE" comment that you pulled out of the rear end. Smh.

Why cant you just be happy, hmm? Why do you have to be ugly, bitter and antagonistic, erhn? Pulling someone down doesnt help anyone reach the top and sustain the height, so my dear nwanne jcross19, please stop the crab in a bucket mentality. Stop the díck comparison. Stop the how dare you attitude, stop the how can your díck be bigger and better than my díck mentality. Thank you.

you have exposed yourself that you need to be noticed ! you are the first that replied unholy , ugly and inappropriate to me and I replied in that manner back to you but it seems it hurt you badly , but truly I don't mean in that way just face the bible don't interpret what that does not follow up with doctrine of bible it's blasphemy!.

jcross19:
Elijah did not represent anything sir! both of them came to pass a message to Christ sir!!!

MuttleyLaff:
I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I didn't know nothing. I wouldn't have written what I wrote, if I did know anything about what I talked about. I stand by everything I wrote earlier, even if it means that I stand alone, and that I repeat is, what John, Peter and James, in Matthew 17:3 saw, of Elijah and Moses, was a vision, its nothing more, nothing less than that and the vision happened, to serve as a symbolism of handing over. In that vision, the inner caucus trio disciples witnessed, Elijah representing the prophets and Moses representing the Law, updating Jesus and then after giving over control and responsibility to Jesus, to forge ahead, go make a reality of and finish the redemptive work in a burst of power and might. Praise God. Alleluia

jcross19, please explain what updating means, from the above quote, or the excerpt from reproduced below :
"In that vision, the inner caucus trio disciples witnessed, Elijah representing the prophets and Moses representing the Law, updating Jesus"

jcross19:
mind you there is no where it's written that Jesus was seen a vision, their visit is never a vision sir!
if it was a vision, bible will state it as a vision.

"As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them,
“Do not tell anyone about this vision until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
- Matthew 17:9

Smh, jcross19, it is obvious you dont know who you're dealing with concerning this matter, you're trying to drag here. Look at you making a complete ignoranus of yourself.

MuttleyLaff:




jcross19, please explain what updating means, from the above quote, or the excerpt from reproduced below :
"In that vision, the inner caucus trio disciples witnessed, Elijah representing the prophets and Moses representing the Law, updating Jesus"

"As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them,
“Do not tell anyone about this vision until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
- Matthew 17:9

Smh, jcross19, it is obvious you dont know who you're dealing with concerning this matter, you're trying to drag here. Look at you making a complete ignoranus of yourself.

you are nothing because I have dealt with you before and you ran away ! like what I have said Elijah and moses did not represent anything ! and they were spirits, I laugh in your ignorance that's making you look "naked" Let me correct you , them may see it as a vision but to Christ is never vision! by the way what do you know about things of the spirit! ordinary bible quotations you could not explained it , am wasting my time with a wit.

jcross19:
you are nothing because I have dealt with you before and you ran away ! like what I have said Elijah and moses did not represent anything ! and they were spirits, I laugh in your ignorance that's making you look "naked" Let me correct you , them may see it as a vision but to Christ is never vision! by the way what do you know about things of the spirit! ordinary bible quotations you could not explained it, am wasting my time with a wit.

Are you now going to tell us that the Bible in Matthew 17:9 is lying because as far as you are concerned, what Peter, James and John saw about Elijah and Moses was not a vision, lol.

jcross19, I asked you to please explain what updating means, but you dodged the question, lol. What was it scaring you from admiting that, updating, means talking, talking as in, giving someone or somebody the latest information about something, lol. That's precisely what Moses, symbolising the Law and Elijah, symbolising the prophets were doing, talking with Jesus, lol.

Run jcross19, and go hide your face in shame. You have been found out, talking about things, you havent a clue about. How can you, in the face of evidence, say it wasnt a vision, lol. You make me laugh, doing gra-gra upandan the thread, huffing and puffing, behaving like a terror. Smh.

MuttleyLaff:
Are you now going to tell us that the Bible in Matthew 17:9 is lying because as far as you are concerned what Peter, James and John saw about Elijah and Moses was not a vision, lol.

I asked you to please explain what updating means, but you dodged the question, lol. What's scarying you from admiting that, updating, means talking, talking as in, giving someone or somebody the latest information about something, lol. That's precisely what Moses, symbolising the Law and Elijah, symbolising the prophets was doing with Jesus, lol.

Run, go hide your face in shame. You have been found out, talking about things, you havent a clue about. How can you, in the face of evidence, say it wasnt a vision, lol. You make me laugh, doing gra-gra upandan the thread, huffing and puffing, behaving like a terror. Smh.

I had your type in my secondary school days , lol they would wrote on a sheet of paper even requested for more sheets but funny you would later discovered they were the nincompoops in the class! you can write all the epistle but ask yourself are you making sense from what you are interpreting from the bible? I laugh again.

jcross19:
I had your type in my secondary school days , lol they would wrote on a sheet of paper even requested for more sheets but funny you would later discovered they were the nincompoops in the class! you can write all the epistle but ask yourself are you making sense from what you are interpreting from the bible? I laugh again.

If you didnt know that the appearance of Moses and Elijah to Jesus, that Peter, James and John saw was a vision, then you're not worth to be taken serious.

Shame on you because you hadnt be careful to show yourself approved unto God. You're a workman that need to be ashamed, for wrongly dividing the word of truth about the nature of the appearance visitation of Elijah and Moses. You mishandled the truth and inaccurately told the narrative. You have and show no remorse. You dont regret trying to mislead and misinform the body of Christ and behaving like a total ignoranus.

I didnt write Matthew 17:9 or did I?. Right there in Matthew 17:9, is it that it is a vision, but here you are, blindly still arguing, even after showing and/or giving you the Bible evidence, smh.

Just be careful, because the next crab, you might want to try to pull down, could just be the one who will, square up to you, rip your claw off and beat the living daylights out of you with it, lol. I presume you're wise, so a word to the wise is enough

Ihedinobi3:
...Continued from above...


So, the Lake of Fire is really Edom, not the planet Earth as you first surmised? Do I understand you correctly?

If you argue that it is not Edom, but the planet Earth, not only do we not have any biblical proof that this is so, but we also know that the Earth and the heavens are burned up before the Judgment of the Great White Throne, so how could that be where the unrighteous are burnt until they are consumed?

As I said above, it is hard to see how you are right in the face of Revelation 19:20 and 20:10. It seems quite obvious to me that the burning lasts much longer, and occurs after life. In fact, going by Matthew 25, the punishment is eternal, without any termination at all. It seems clear to me that it takes interpretive gymnastics and some rejection of clear statements in the Bible to hold the position that you do.

Your argument is making me sick, their is no direction or understanding to it.

I never said the lake of fire is Edom.
The purpose of mentioning Edom was to demonstrate the fact that the word forever although used in the bible in describing the destruction of Edom, it's says the smoke of Edom will ascend forever. but we know that Edom is not currently burning neither is there smoke ascending forever

This proves that the word forever does not necessarily mean something without end.


Hellfire is this Earth turned into Fire ball.

Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver
them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the
earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For
He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one,
Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Zephaniah 3:8
"Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD, "For the
day when I rise up as a witness Indeed, My decision is
to gather nations, To assemble kingdoms, To pour out
on them My indignation, All My burning anger; For all
the earth will be devoured By the fire of My zeal.

2 Peter 3:11
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way,
what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct
and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of
God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed
by burning, and the elements will melt with intense
heat!
Vers


2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by
the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of
judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth
also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

jcross19:
even the psalm you quoted said He takes away their spirit mean their spirits are still existing but with God while their flesh returned to the dust! You are just confused sir

Are you that Naive?
How does that explain or mean that the spirit taken by God are still existing?

MuttleyLaff:
"Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life
(i.e. for everything you do flows from the heart)"
- Proverbs 4:23

"The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart.
For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks"
- Luke 6:45

blueAgent, I am 110% sure you'll agree and accept that, it is the Soul that is saved even Ezekiel 18:20 emphatically states that: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die.", it doesnt say its the Body or the Spirit. Now, the heart is used by the Soul but the heart definitely is not the Spirit

Let me slip this bit in, first, as a preamble. Proverbs 4:23 and Luke 6:45 above, informs us that, it's out of the abundance of the heart first, then processed in the brain or mind, before the mouth speaks. All evil intents comes forth out of the heart, as in, the heart housed in the human Body. Mark 7:21-22, paints a picture of the heart with the following: "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness" and Jeremiah 17:9 doesnt paint the heart in good light either, as it says: "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"

Incidentally, the verse, Psalms 51:10, informatively tells us, that the heart is linked with the mind, which is part of the Soul. The same Soul or psyche uses the heart as an outlet, to pass out or pass in things, from the Body and/or Spirit via the heart in the Soul. I'll soon below explain how it does this and/or how this works

What is man?
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul (i.e. a psyche). In fact, Man is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. As a matter of fact, the Soul or psyche, has the Body and Spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a Soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit.

Genesis 2:7 and Job 33:4 above, informs us, its "ruach" the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated.

Now blueAgent, please dont try to mix up "ruach" and "neshamah" with ordinary and/or commonplace spirits, as in meaning, dont try to mix up the Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with extraterrestrial beings, which is what evil and good spirits are.

Fyi, "ruach", in Hebrew, with its corresponding Greek word "pneuma" essentially and in an almost oversimplified way means force. It is breath, wind, spirit of God, all rolled in as one thing. It in a sense, is the invisible force or power of God, hence why being perceived as a Spirit, so yes, "ruach" is the Spirit of God. In fact you wont wrong in saying that "ruach" or "Ha Ruach Ha Kodesh" is the Holy Spirit, as in, the Spirit of God.

You can see both "ruach" and "neshamah" being interplayed in the creation of man from Genesis 2:7 reproduced above, and as a witness plus as a supporting verse, Job 33:4 you see reproduced above, confirms, by testifying, that, its "ruach" that made man and it is "neshamah" that gives man life

"Neshamah", incidentally, is actually derived from another Hebrew word called "nasham" that means to pant and/or blow away with air, now, when the spirit, as in, meaning, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the Body slumps and the Soul goes into comatose. This looks and feels, similar to a TV animated cartoon changed and turned into a cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper. TV animated cartoon characters moves, but cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper dont move like animated cartoon characters watched on TV screens. For the life of the body is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the spirit. When the spirit leaves the body, it returns back to God, leaving the body inanimate, meaning leaves it motionless and lifeless, as in, without life or no more with life. Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
- Ecclesiastes 12:7

Now, moving further on, the Spirit and Soul have different faculties, where the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, while the faculties of the Soul are made up of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions. The Body is not left out, it has 5 faculties of senses, and these are, sight, as in to see via the eyes, hearing, as in hear via the ears, touch, as in, feel via applicable part of the body, smell, as in, perceive via the nose and last but not the least, taste, as in, sense with the mouth.

The Body is worldly conscious and relates to the environment and its surroundings, the Soul is self conscious and relates to self & other people and the Spirit is God conscious and relates to God. After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

Now, remember blueAgent, that your question was: "What do I think is the Soul?" Well, my intro response is, the Soul, biblically speaking, is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about and over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, getting started proper, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul, by way of the Body and Spirit. The Soul, as a matter of fact and in effect, is the mediator between the Body and Spirit. The Soul uses the heart, as the point from where issues are sent out and/or distributed from.

Let me elaborate and explain a bit how everything works, the different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information here, is very important to grasp, and it is that, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving these things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into the Spirit's laps.

Fya blueAgent, please note, anywhere in the post you see "Spirit", unless it is stated otherwise, take it, to mean, as in, spirit-man, and not the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. Thank you

Now, this here, is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or what it is picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor. Caveat emptor clause #1 done.

The devil has no power over anyone, except if such person, is in the dark, dabbling in the dark or is ignorant, so I'll advise the curious to distance themselves from dabbling into the dark, to save themselves from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to dine and eat with. Caveat emptor clause #2 done.

Resuming and back on track, now, if the Soul picks up an interaction, info, instruction, message, communication, issue etcetera from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit the Soul received from the Body and put into the Spirit will be unfruitful then (i.e. remember the red emboldened above hmm?) The thing here, is that, the Spirit, by the God design, knows what it expects from the Soul for positive fruition to be possible but the Soul has received from the Body something it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand or know about. Wahala don begin to gas be dat ooo. Now, just as in the physical, when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue, so it is spiritually, the Spirit, intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul, as a conduit, a vent hole determines what the Spirit receives, but if the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. like not praying right, not asking right, not the will of God etctera) then the Spirit, does the wordless groans. It does this because the spirit-man knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight. The Spirit, as in, the spirit-man, is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods I am expecting, please dont feed me with trash, junk and any of all these ungodly razzmatazz stuffs. So since the Spirit, is capable of asking and telling the Soul what it needs, the Soul just has to return back to the Body to honour the request and be asking the Body for correct or "kosher" stuff and not the crap its received

Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit, is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit, and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit , knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body) but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit, by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit.

There is a rule, that the Spirit, cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul. Hmm, I perceive someone's going to trip at this point, so OK, here is the clarification to ward off any confusion:
The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body, if the seed is able to bear fruit and is meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit, will then fertilise the ''seed'' and return it back to the Body, via the Soul, bumper harvest fruitfully. Call it positive and welcome payback, if you like.

So, in effect, the Soul feeds the Spirit, and the Soul receives from the Spirit, to feed the Body. This is the reason, why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret, to then, successfully feed the Spirit or the Body.

blueAgent, do you ever recoil back, when watching something gruesome happening in real life or maybe just on a TV screen slash internet, as in, like in a horror film or something? If you do, well that's your spirit, as in your spirit-man, not wanting to be needlessly grieved. Sometimes, you have to protect the gateway to your spirit-man because you might not necessarily want to relive or remember that moment, so you block any avenue, contact or link to that thing happening or going on at that moment of time. What is happening here, is you preventing your spirit-man from being fed with junk. You are protecting your heart and shielding it from receiving and/or taking in from junk. You are blocking the faculties from transferring junk to the Soul via the heart.

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth"
- 3 John 1:2

As seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all. Of course, the ability of the Soul to prosper or be held back to any degree, is dependent on the Spirit, getting the right detail, at which to relay back to the Body via the Soul at a latter date, future or time, as and when needed.

This is another God design, quest for quality GIGO and QIQO system set-up. GIGO is an ancroymn for "Garbage in, Garbage out" and QIQO is an ancroymn for "Quality in, Quality out" If the Soul sends in shiit to the Spirit, the Soul gets shiit back from the Spirit. It just implies that bad input by the Soul will result in bad output in return, sent back from the Spirit to the Soul. Ultimately too, the Body, at the receiving end of it all, gets the flawed and nonsense input data from the Soul, this comes by nonsense output garbage obtained from the Spirit that originally and in first place was sent in from the Soul coming from one or more of the Body's faculties (e.g. eyes, ears, touch, mouth, smell)

"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay."
- Psalm 16:10

blueAgent, you're too heavy to want to fall for my hand now, please dont. Biko, jor abeg. The soul of Jesus, not being left in Sheol, aka hell/hades, is King David's Psalm 16:10 prophecy being fulfilled. Everything written about Jesus, in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms were each and every one fulfilled, and so we have it that the soul of Jesus was not abandoned in Sheol nor His body decayed. Praise God. Alleluia.

Now, blueAgent, when our Lord Jesus Christ resurrected, He resurrected with a glorified body. Need I go on, need I say more, if not, then I rest my case then.

After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

I guess blueAgent that you'll agree that the devil and demons are souless, meaning they have no soul. Now, the reason why the devil and the demons are inredeemable is because of the fact that they have no souls. The devil and the demons, are not able to be saved, be improved, or be corrected because of the mere fact that they lack a soul. The devil and the demons, to start with, unlike human beings, havent got diddly squat souls to make better, to make more desirable, satisfactory and/or effective.

See Bible skills.

Your explanation is laughable it sounds like a child learning to read and think.

blueAgent:


.Are that Naive?

How does that explain or mean that the spirit taken by God are still existing?

yes because God never die we can't exist without God now I quoted revelation 20:10 says And the devil that deceived them was casted into the lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophet are and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "for ever and ever " mean what there ? if they are not immortal why will they use for ever and ever for them in the fire.

MuttleyLaff:
"Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life
(i.e. for everything you do flows from the heart)"
- Proverbs 4:23

"The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart.
For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks"
- Luke 6:45

blueAgent, I am 110% sure you'll agree and accept that, it is the Soul that is saved even Ezekiel 18:20 emphatically states that: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die.", it doesnt say its the Body or the Spirit. Now, the heart is used by the Soul but the heart definitely is not the Spirit

Let me slip this bit in, first, as a preamble. Proverbs 4:23 and Luke 6:45 above, informs us that, it's out of the abundance of the heart first, then processed in the brain or mind, before the mouth speaks. All evil intents comes forth out of the heart, as in, the heart housed in the human Body. Mark 7:21-22, paints a picture of the heart with the following: "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness" and Jeremiah 17:9 doesnt paint the heart in good light either, as it says: "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"

Incidentally, the verse, Psalms 51:10, informatively tells us, that the heart is linked with the mind, which is part of the Soul. The same Soul or psyche uses the heart as an outlet, to pass out or pass in things, from the Body and/or Spirit via the heart in the Soul. I'll soon below explain how it does this and/or how this works

What is man?
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul (i.e. a psyche). In fact, Man is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. As a matter of fact, the Soul or psyche, has the Body and Spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a Soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit.

Genesis 2:7 and Job 33:4 above, informs us, its "ruach" the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated.

Now blueAgent, please dont try to mix up "ruach" and "neshamah" with ordinary and/or commonplace spirits, as in meaning, dont try to mix up the Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with extraterrestrial beings, which is what evil and good spirits are.

Fyi, "ruach", in Hebrew, with its corresponding Greek word "pneuma" essentially and in an almost oversimplified way means force. It is breath, wind, spirit of God, all rolled in as one thing. It in a sense, is the invisible force or power of God, hence why being perceived as a Spirit, so yes, "ruach" is the Spirit of God. In fact you wont wrong in saying that "ruach" or "Ha Ruach Ha Kodesh" is the Holy Spirit, as in, the Spirit of God.

You can see both "ruach" and "neshamah" being interplayed in the creation of man from Genesis 2:7 reproduced above, and as a witness plus as a supporting verse, Job 33:4 you see reproduced above, confirms, by testifying, that, its "ruach" that made man and it is "neshamah" that gives man life

"Neshamah", incidentally, is actually derived from another Hebrew word called "nasham" that means to pant and/or blow away with air, now, when the spirit, as in, meaning, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the Body slumps and the Soul goes into comatose. This looks and feels, similar to a TV animated cartoon changed and turned into a cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper. TV animated cartoon characters moves, but cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper dont move like animated cartoon characters watched on TV screens. For the life of the body is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the spirit. When the spirit leaves the body, it returns back to God, leaving the body inanimate, meaning leaves it motionless and lifeless, as in, without life or no more with life. Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
- Ecclesiastes 12:7

Now, moving further on, the Spirit and Soul have different faculties, where the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, while the faculties of the Soul are made up of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions. The Body is not left out, it has 5 faculties of senses, and these are, sight, as in to see via the eyes, hearing, as in hear via the ears, touch, as in, feel via applicable part of the body, smell, as in, perceive via the nose and last but not the least, taste, as in, sense with the mouth.

The Body is worldly conscious and relates to the environment and its surroundings, the Soul is self conscious and relates to self & other people and the Spirit is God conscious and relates to God. After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

Now, remember blueAgent, that your question was: "What do I think is the Soul?" Well, my intro response is, the Soul, biblically speaking, is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about and over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, getting started proper, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul, by way of the Body and Spirit. The Soul, as a matter of fact and in effect, is the mediator between the Body and Spirit. The Soul uses the heart, as the point from where issues are sent out and/or distributed from.

Let me elaborate and explain a bit how everything works, the different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information here, is very important to grasp, and it is that, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving these things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into the Spirit's laps.

Fya blueAgent, please note, anywhere in the post you see "Spirit", unless it is stated otherwise, take it, to mean, as in, spirit-man, and not the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. Thank you

Now, this here, is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or what it is picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor. Caveat emptor clause #1 done.

The devil has no power over anyone, except if such person, is in the dark, dabbling in the dark or is ignorant, so I'll advise the curious to distance themselves from dabbling into the dark, to save themselves from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to dine and eat with. Caveat emptor clause #2 done.

Resuming and back on track, now, if the Soul picks up an interaction, info, instruction, message, communication, issue etcetera from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit the Soul received from the Body and put into the Spirit will be unfruitful then (i.e. remember the red emboldened above hmm?) The thing here, is that, the Spirit, by the God design, knows what it expects from the Soul for positive fruition to be possible but the Soul has received from the Body something it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand or know about. Wahala don begin to gas be dat ooo. Now, just as in the physical, when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue, so it is spiritually, the Spirit, intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul, as a conduit, a vent hole determines what the Spirit receives, but if the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. like not praying right, not asking right, not the will of God etctera) then the Spirit, does the wordless groans. It does this because the spirit-man knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight. The Spirit, as in, the spirit-man, is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods I am expecting, please dont feed me with trash, junk and any of all these ungodly razzmatazz stuffs. So since the Spirit, is capable of asking and telling the Soul what it needs, the Soul just has to return back to the Body to honour the request and be asking the Body for correct or "kosher" stuff and not the crap its received

Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit, is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit, and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit , knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body) but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit, by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit.

There is a rule, that the Spirit, cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul. Hmm, I perceive someone's going to trip at this point, so OK, here is the clarification to ward off any confusion:
The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body, if the seed is able to bear fruit and is meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit, will then fertilise the ''seed'' and return it back to the Body, via the Soul, bumper harvest fruitfully. Call it positive and welcome payback, if you like.

So, in effect, the Soul feeds the Spirit, and the Soul receives from the Spirit, to feed the Body. This is the reason, why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret, to then, successfully feed the Spirit or the Body.

blueAgent, do you ever recoil back, when watching something gruesome happening in real life or maybe just on a TV screen slash internet, as in, like in a horror film or something? If you do, well that's your spirit, as in your spirit-man, not wanting to be needlessly grieved. Sometimes, you have to protect the gateway to your spirit-man because you might not necessarily want to relive or remember that moment, so you block any avenue, contact or link to that thing happening or going on at that moment of time. What is happening here, is you preventing your spirit-man from being fed with junk. You are protecting your heart and shielding it from receiving and/or taking in from junk. You are blocking the faculties from transferring junk to the Soul via the heart.

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth"
- 3 John 1:2

As seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all. Of course, the ability of the Soul to prosper or be held back to any degree, is dependent on the Spirit, getting the right detail, at which to relay back to the Body via the Soul at a latter date, future or time, as and when needed.

This is another God design, quest for quality GIGO and QIQO system set-up. GIGO is an ancroymn for "Garbage in, Garbage out" and QIQO is an ancroymn for "Quality in, Quality out" If the Soul sends in shiit to the Spirit, the Soul gets shiit back from the Spirit. It just implies that bad input by the Soul will result in bad output in return, sent back from the Spirit to the Soul. Ultimately too, the Body, at the receiving end of it all, gets the flawed and nonsense input data from the Soul, this comes by nonsense output garbage obtained from the Spirit that originally and in first place was sent in from the Soul coming from one or more of the Body's faculties (e.g. eyes, ears, touch, mouth, smell)

"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay."
- Psalm 16:10

blueAgent, you're too heavy to want to fall for my hand now, please dont. Biko, jor abeg. The soul of Jesus, not being left in Sheol, aka hell/hades, is King David's Psalm 16:10 prophecy being fulfilled. Everything written about Jesus, in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms were each and every one fulfilled, and so we have it that the soul of Jesus was not abandoned in Sheol nor His body decayed. Praise God. Alleluia.

Now, blueAgent, when our Lord Jesus Christ resurrected, He resurrected with a glorified body. Need I go on, need I say more, if not, then I rest my case then.

After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

I guess blueAgent that you'll agree that the devil and demons are souless, meaning they have no soul. Now, the reason why the devil and the demons are inredeemable is because of the fact that they have no souls. The devil and the demons, are not able to be saved, be improved, or be corrected because of the mere fact that they lack a soul. The devil and the demons, to start with, unlike human beings, havent got diddly squat souls to make better, to make more desirable, satisfactory and/or effective.

It's obvious you don't know what a Soul is.
If you have read my thread on this topic you would have saved yourself the stress and time you spent on writting this crap meaningless stuff you wrote here.

MuttleyLaff:
If you didnt know that the appearance of Moses and Elijah to Jesus, that Peter, James and John saw was a vision, then you're not worth to be taken serious.

Shame on you because you hadnt be careful to show yourself approved unto God. You're a workman that need to be ashamed, for wrongly dividing the word of truth about the nature of the appearance visitation of Elijah and Moses. You mishandled the truth and inaccurately told the narrative. You have and show no remorse. You dont regret trying to mislead and misinform the body of Christ and behaving like a total ignoranus.

I didnt write Matthew 17:9 or did I?. Right there in Matthew 17:9, is it that it is a vision, but here you are, blindly still arguing, even after showing and/or giving you the Bible evidence, smh.

Just be careful, because the next crab, you might want to try to pull down, could just be the one who will, square up to you, rip your claw off and beat the living daylights out of you with it, lol. I presume you're wise, so a word to the wise is enough

that even not the bone of contention here because I know you on the thread as person that talk out of the thread causing digression on the thread! go and create thread then invite me I will be happy to welcome the invitation base on bible knowledge it seems you are lagging behind you need it!

jcross19:
you are quoting out of point view of bible sir! Satan started from the beginning and Jesus said he has been judged meaning condemned now there is different between evil spirit, Satan,demons and dark angels! pls. spirits don't die is either you take it or leave it ! every spirit is eternal either in bondage, in the lake of fire that burn forever ask yourself why would the fire forever if the prisoners can die?

Your argument is always without direction or meaning.

Can't you post a least one Bible verse to back this your comedy.

blueAgent:
See Bible skills.
Your explanation is laughable it sounds like a child learning to read and think.

"He said, In solemn truth I tell you that unless you turn and become like little children,
you will in no case be admitted into the Kingdom of the Heavens."
- Matthew 18:3

Thank you very much blueAgent. May God bless you very much and real big good, as I take out the sting from that "don't be such a jerk, behaving like a jackass" venom. Amen.

jcross19:
Am still wondering after I read this verse rev.20vs10 says And the devil that deceived them was cast into lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophets are, and shall be tormented DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER meaning eternity can a mortal soul suffer for ever and ever if not immortal?

The truth is that the word forever used in that verse does not mean something without end, as we can see from Ezekiel 28 that the Devil will be destroyed.

jcross19:
that even not the bone of contention here because I know you on the thread as person that talk out of the thread causing digression on the thread!

jcross19, you seem to conveniently forget that it was your digression with you introducing the mentioning of Moses and Elijah to the thread that led me pointing out to you, that the appearance of Moses and Elijah was a vision . This appearance of Moses and Elijah being a vision, you in a forceful, passionate and intense manner denied is the case. Do you remember that, you even went to the length of almost swearing by the Bible, that there is no record in the bible, and insisting it was a vision? Or have you conveniently erased all that from your memory ni? lol. So my dear friend, for your information, the bone of contention you were having and arguing with me, was that, Moses and Elijah's appearance, talking with Jesus, seen by James, John and Peter was not a vision, when in actual fact and truth, it was a vision, but you didnt believe me saying that, lol.

Ezekiel 25:17 (according to Pulp Fiction Jules):
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness,
for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance
and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee".

Again, I presume you're wise, so reloading, a word to the wise is enough, lol.

jcross19:
go and create thread then invite me I will be happy to welcome the invitation base on bible knowledge it seems you are lagging behind you need it!

As in whether or not, it is a vision of Moses and Elijah, Jesus in Matthew 17:9 has settled and put the matter to rest, so why should I be opening a thread, besides, as I've said, you arent someone to be taken seriously, and your credibility, the little that you had, has waned, all because of that conquering lie you forcefully passionately and intensely preferred to a liberating truth.

Look at the self-conceited you, worked up, feeling and thinking you're a storm, and so telling me, to go create a thread and then invite you, when all you are, is a pitiful, well below par, little rain and I am a hurricane. Coat and "babanriga agbada" nobi same age play-mates ooo. The nasal bridge, is far, is further away from the nose.

blueAgent:
It's obvious you don't know what a Soul is.
If you have read my thread on this topic you would have saved yourself the stress and time you spent on writting this crap meaning less a stuff you wrote here.

Ọgbẹni, if you have any regards for yourself my friend, you'll respect yourself, mind your language, your tone and watch that acid tongue of yours.

Now that you have been served and given an advanced warning, if you then still insist in continuing to toe the undisciplined line and your unbridled tongue with me, then I would have no choice than to expose you for what you are and from what I've noticed in all this.

blueAgent:



Your argument is making me sick, their is no direction or understanding to it.

I never said the lake of fire is Edom.
The purpose of mentioning Edom was to demonstrate the fact that the word forever although used in the bible in describing the destruction of Edom, it's says the smoke of Edom will ascend forever. but we know that Edom is not currently burning neither is there smoke ascending forever

This proves that the word forever does not necessarily mean something without end.


Hellfire is this Earth turned into Fire ball.

Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver
them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the
earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For
He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one,
Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Zephaniah 3:8
"Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD, "For the
day when I rise up as a witness Indeed, My decision is
to gather nations, To assemble kingdoms, To pour out
on them My indignation, All My burning anger; For all
the earth will be devoured By the fire of My zeal.

2 Peter 3:11
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way,
what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct
and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of
God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed
by burning, and the elements will melt with intense
heat!
Vers


2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by
the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of
judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth
also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I'm sure my intent was not to make you sick, although your teaching was apt to do worse to believers.

Forgive my misunderstanding. It just seemed to me that you were saying that the Lake of Fire was Edom since you said, "Here is another interesting note: "The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever", from Revelation 14:11 obviously comes from Isaiah 34:10. It is the description of the destruction and desolation of Edom. Most of the book of Revelation actually is connected with the Old Testament." If Revelation 14:11 comes from Isaiah 34:10, then it must be referring to Edom. That was how I understood what you said. If this was not what you meant, perhaps you could have made it clearer.

If you only meant that Revelation 14:11 should be taken the same way as Isaiah 34:10, the question is why. Are they the same? In my thinking, they're not. What is happening in Isaiah 34 is actually Armageddon. It's part of a complex of chapters describing how God will deliver Israel from the world's armies gathered against it by the Antichrist to destroy it. The deliverance will occur at the Second Advent when the Lord Jesus will destroy those armies and reclaim the Earth from Satan. You can compare Zechariah 14 and Revelation 19 for proof.

The use of "forever" in that passage then refers to the absolute perfection of the judgment so that it will not cease until the Lord renews the Earth for His Millennial Reign.

In my thinking, you do realize that Revelation 14 is not at all speaking about Isaiah 34. Both are different things. Revelation 14 speaks of a judgment that occurs forever and ever from a heavenly perspective, which is where the Lamb and His Angels are, not from an earthly perspective as in Isaiah 34, which is where the nations invading Israel are.

I have also explained in that second installment of my answer that you responded to and in the first one too that the Earth cannot be the Lake of Fire since the Lord Jesus rules it for a thousand years after casting the Antichrist and his prophet into the Lake of Fire. As I also said, we also don't have any biblical proof that the Earth becomes the Lake of Fire even afterwards since we are told that it is removed from existence with fire by the Lord Jesus before the Judgment of the Great White Throne. If it was, then it cannot be the Lake of Fire into which the unrighteous are cast together with Satan and his fellow rebel angels.

If I am wrong about this, you have not quite demonstrated it. Your use of those passages you quoted, just like your use of Isaiah 34, ignores what the Bible says as a whole. If Zephaniah 1:18 means that the Lord will turn the Earth into the Lake of Fire, then which other Lake of Fire were the Antichrist and his prophet cast into at Armageddon in Revelation 19? If Zephaniah 3:8 means that the Lord consumed the entire Earth with fire at His Second Advent, which is what He is speaking of here, then where does the Millennial Reign of Revelation 20 occur? If 2 Peter 3:7-12 says that the Earth will be turned into the Lake of Fire, then why are we told in Revelation 20 and 21 and elsewhere in the Bible that this universe will pass away and be replaced with a new one?

It seems to me that you are misapplying Scriptures, forcing them to contradict each other in your bid to teach a lie. I don't know if it is something that you are doing on purpose, or if you are only in error unwittingly. My answers have been to show you that the Bible does not agree with your position. I understand if you disagree. After all, it is the nature of this forum that everyone claims to be a teacher here even if they are not even believers in Jesus Christ. But, for what good it might do you and others who might read these discussions, I am making my responses here for correction.

The Bible is unequivocal that what God has done is forever, as in the first passages I shared with you in my first post. That is, everything He created is built to last eternally. Not one thing can be removed from existence, nor can anything at all be added to Creation. This is clearly what Ecclesiastes 3:14 teaches. It is not at all biblical to claim that the souls (that is, the spirits that exist in corporeal bodies: both man and beast, as Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 teaches) will ever go out of existence. They will not. Their bodies will return to the dust (except for believers who live to see the Lord Jesus return, whose bodies will only be changed into eternal ones), but their spirits will receive a new "sheath" or "clothing," that is, an interim body (2 Corinthians 5:3 in Greek) to exist in either in Sheol or in Heaven (Ecclesiastes 3:18-21; Luke 16:22-23; Ephesians 4:8; and a host of other Scriptures) until the Resurrection at which time they will receive eternal bodies that are suited to their eternal status either as redeemed or as condemned (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29; Revelation 20:11-15).

When the Scriptures talk about the death of the sinning soul, it speaks of the Second Death, yes, but the Second Death does not contradict Ecclesiastes 3:14. Those who sin will be punished eternally by being excluded from God's Glorious Presence for all eternity and put in a place of suffering for all their mad rebellion. As the Lord Jesus says concerning them, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:40-42), that is, there shall be regret for their terrible choice, an impossibility if they are either unconscious or non-existent. The Second Death is called death because it is an exclusion from everything that is good from God. A state of existence where you have no access to any of God's gifts or to God Himself, that is already death, but if we add to such a place all that is God's curse and His Wrath, then we have an even worse state of existence than the human mind can begin to comprehend. It is better to not exist at all than to suffer such a punishment. That is why it is called a Death, not because there is any kind of cessation of existence.

To be clear, it is no kind of punishment at all for the wicked to simply go out of existence after spending their time here on Earth rebelling against the Lord and doing so much harm to His People. That they simply cease to exist is practically congratulations for being so smart. It is no justice at all. Consider that in Isaiah 66:24 (compare also Psalm 91:8 ), the Lord promises the righteous that they will be able to see His Justice upon those who have done so much wickedness to them. This is a comfort from the Lord. It has been said that Isaiah 66:24 proves that there is no eternal suffering for the wicked, but obviously that is not true. Why would the "dead bodies" of sinners last eternally, if the fires consumed them and wild animals can return after the smoke is gone, as it seems to me that you said? In fact, "corpses" or "dead bodies" is probably the best way to describe the state of existence of these rebels, since they lack anything that can rightly be called life. They have no light, no water, no food, no companionship, no joy, no peace, or anything good at all. Instead, they have the torment of the fire, the palpable darkness, the knowledge that they could never have defeated the Lord in their rebellion, the knowledge that they can never get out of that dreadful place, the consciousness that they are alone and without help or friends of any sort, the knowledge of all the good that they rejected in rejecting the Lord's Mercy, and so much more than all that. They are, for all intents and purposes, truly Dead, although they are very truly conscious and able to experience that Death consciously. The righteous will see this and rejoice in the Justice of their God.

This is what the Bible teaches. You may be unable to bear it, but it is the Truth nonetheless.

blueAgent:



The truth is that the word forever used in that verse does not mean something without end, as we can see from Ezekiel 28 that the Devil will be destroyed.

even the word destroyed from the bible don't really mean to end too.

blueAgent:



Your argument is always without direction or meaning.

Can't you post a least one Bible verse to back this your comedy.

you are the one that's confusing yourself ! I have given you a bible verse that terminated all your misquotes. go back and read rev. 20vs 10. tell me why the bible says " day and night " with the word "for ever and ever".you are confusing yourself and some people who have very poor understanding of the word. now let me quoted Ezekiel 28vs19 says: All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more! I know your confusion is the word " no more" now rev. 20vs10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented DAY and NIGHT for EVER and EVER ! lake of fire is a confinement for every condemned spirit now if the bible says they will be in that fire for ever, that means their end have come because they will not able to be out of fire again, that lake of fire is an eternal prison that can't be quench according to Bible meaning.

jcross19:
you are the one that's confusing yourself ! I have given you a bible verse that terminated all your misquotes. go back and read rev. 20vs 10. tell me why the bible says " day and night " with the word "for ever and ever".you are confusing yourself and some people who have very poor understanding of the word. now let me quoted Ezekiel 28vs19 says: All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more! I know your confusion is the word " no more" now rev. 20vs10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented DAY and NIGHT for EVER and EVER ! lake of fire is a confinement for every condemned spirit now if the bible says they will be in that fire for ever, that means their end have come because they will not able to be out of fire again, that lake of fire is an eternal prison that can't be quench according to Bible meaning.

Clown.
It's obvious you have problem with comprehension.

Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

That Bible verse above says that God will turn Satan to Ashes upon the Earth in the sight of all.

If you had sense you would have known by now that the word forever does not always mean something without end.