The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

A lady was a fervent member of her church choir, she got into the university and decided to get a boyfriend.

One day she went to visit her man and she lost her virginity through fornication.


On her way back home, she had a fatal accident and died and ended up in hell.


If you die with an unconfessed sin, you will end up in hell. This story I told isn't fiction. It's a revelation from God.


Let him that has ears hear what the S

Galatians 6:11-18 New Living Translation (NLT)
Paul’s Final Advice
11 Notice what large letters i use as i write these closing words in my own handwriting.

12 Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised want to look good to others. They don’t want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save. 13 And even those who advocate circumcision don’t keep the whole law themselves. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast about it and claim you as their disciples.

14 As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross,[a] my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died. 15 It doesn’t matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation. 16 May God’s peace and mercy be upon all who live by this principle; they are the new people of God.[b]

17 From now on, don’t let anyone trouble me with these things. For I bear on my body the scars that show I belong to Jesus.

18 Dear brothers and sisters,[c] may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

@OP
NOT PISSIBLE.

Praivit0:



A lady was a fervent member of her church choir, she got into the university and decided to get a boyfriend.

One day she went to visit her man and she lost her virginity through fornication.


On her way back home, she had a fatal accident and died and ended up in hell.


If you die with an unconfessed sin, you will end up in hell. This story I told isn't fiction. It's a revelation from God.


Let him that has ears hear what the S

Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.
Even in the OT the Mercy of God in the life of David was SURE!!thats no matter what David did,Mercy covers all.
That's the sole reason the Kingdom wasn't taken away from his linage.
Isaiah55:3..,Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David.

First of all, there is nothing like born again, we are all Christians equally irrespective of whether you are bad or good.
Secondly, salvation is a free gift to all Christians irrespective of who they are.
The only condition a Christian can loose his salvation is when he deviate from the faith he had in Christ.
without faith it is impossible to please God.

So, all these fake stories that a Christian went to hell are all lies.

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

Hello solite3.

This is actually not biblical. It is a popular falsehood today and a very strategic one given the fact that we are on the cusp of the Tribulation when a full third of the Church will fall away.

This is what I read in the Bible:

Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 NIV1984

[1]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [2]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [3]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB

The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Matthew 13:20-21 NIV1984

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:12-13 NIV1984

There is far more than all the above. To put it simply, believing the Gospel does not remove our free will. That is why we are kept on Earth afterwards: to be tested as to our choice to believe. If we endure our testing to the end, it proves that our choice is genuine and our Faith real. If we break under the testing and give up our faith, then we are no longer saved. That can and does happen. The Tribulation is designed by the Lord specifically for the purpose of testing the Laodicean Church and removing from it all those whose faith is ephemeral. A full third of the Church will fall away this way (Zechariah 13:8; Revelation 12:4; Daniel 8:10). Thinking that one can't lose their faith is the reason that many will do so in the tests of this life.

paxonel:
First of all, there is nothing like born again, we are all Christians equally irrespective of whether you are bad or good.
Secondly, salvation is a free gift to all Christians irrespective of who they are.
The only condition a Christian can loose his salvation is when he deviate from the faith he had in Christ.
without faith it is impossible to please God.

So, all these fake stories that a Christian went to hell are all lies.

Hello.

Where does the Bible teach that we are all Christians? Who's the "we" in your statement?

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

Where does the Bible teach that we are all Christians? Who's the "we" in your statement?

everyone believing in Christ are all Christians

paxonel:
everyone believing in Christ are all Christians

Okay. I agree with that. That is what the Bible teaches too in John 3:16.

Ihedinobi3:

Hello solite3.

This is actually not biblical. It is a popular falsehood today and a very strategic one given the fact that we are on the cusp of the Tribulation when a full third of the Church will fall away.

This is what I read in the Bible:

Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 NIV1984

[1]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [2]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [3]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB

The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Matthew 13:20-21 NIV1984

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:12-13 NIV1984

There is far more than all the above. To put it simply, believing the Gospel does not remove our free will. That is why we are kept on Earth afterwards: to be tested as to our choice to believe. If we endure our testing to the end, it proves that our choice is genuine and our Faith real. If we break under the testing and give up our faith, then we are no longer saved. That can and does happen. The Tribulation is designed by the Lord specifically for the purpose of testing the Laodicean Church and removing from it all those whose faith is ephemeral. A full third of the Church will fall away this way (Zechariah 13:8; Revelation 12:4; Daniel 8:10). Thinking that one can't lose their faith is the reason that many will do so in the tests of this life.

we are not in the tribulation yet. I believe in pretribulation rapture and have very good reason to believe it.
What is unbiblical? Rather it is the teaching that a saved person can be unsaved that is actually unbiblical.
A saved person is born of God and can not perish because God keeps him.

Praivit0:



A lady was a fervent member of her church choir, she got into the university and decided to get a boyfriend.

One day she went to visit her man and she lost her virginity through fornication.


On her way back home, she had a fatal accident and died and ended up in hell.


If you die with an unconfessed sin, you will end up in hell. This story I told isn't fiction. It's a revelation from God.


Let him that has ears hear what the S

being a fervent member of a church or even being a pastor does not translate to being saved. Jesus said except a man is bornagain he cannot see the kingdom of God, he didint say except a man becomes a member of a church.
When a person gets saved, God himself sanctifies, and preserved that person. A saved person cannot die in sin.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Furthermore, Christ sheep hear and obeys Christ voice

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Anyone that forsakes christ is non of his


1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

solite3:
being a fervent member of a church or even being a pastor does not translate to being saved. Jesus said except a man is bornagain he cannot see the kingdom of God, he didint say except a man becomes a member of a church.
When a person gets saved, God himself sanctifies, and preserved that person. A saved person cannot die in sin.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Furthermore, Christ sheep hear and obeys Christ voice

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Anyone that forsakes christ is non of his


1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

The lady in question wasn't just born again, she was a fire brand Christian before the incident.

ichuka:

Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.
Even in the OT the Mercy of God in the life of David was SURE!!thats no matter what David did,Mercy covers all.
That's the sole reason the Kingdom wasn't taken away from his linage.
Isaiah55:3..,Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David.

Trashed between who and who.
Stop propagating false doctrines.

You can believe whatever you choose to believe.

Praivit0:


The lady in question wasn't just born again, she was a fire brand Christian before the incident.

fire brand? You dont know what it means to be born from above hence your argument.
If she had a new birth she wouldnt have died in sin.
You think people die by mistake? Not even a single bird who are lesser animals die outside the knowledge of the father how much more humans.
Look when one is born again, he is regenerated spiritually and passed from death to life. Furthermore the holy Spirit takes permanent residence in him. He has eternal life and the father and Jesus Christ keeps him to the end as the Holy Spirit in him is also his seal until the appearance of Christ.
If a bornagain Christian do sin, the spirit in him will convict him and lead him to repentance. God through hardship, or through other believers will put him back on track and because of his regenerated state he will obey the voice of christ and as a Son he will remember his father.

The story of the prodigal son very much explains things.
The prodigal son departure was cut short by events that happened to him and guess who is in charge of times and happenings? Yes God.
Secondly he remembered where he belonged and guess who made him remembered? (the holy Spirit) and whose voice he heard? (Jesus)
The father knew his son would return home because he was his Son.

Although there is a loss of reward but his soul was saved.

A bornagain christian can lose his reward in heaven but God would make sure he or she gets home safe.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.




1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

paxonel:
everyone believing in Christ are all Christians

Ihedinobi3:

Okay. I agree with that. That is what the Bible teaches too in John 3:16.

ichuka:

Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.
Even in the OT the Mercy of God in the life of David was SURE!!thats no matter what David did,Mercy covers all.
That's the sole reason the Kingdom wasn't taken away from his linage.
Isaiah55:3..,Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David.

OP, if u're gonna misunderstand scripture, its still understandable but what's not understandable is your not being afraid to actually tamper with scripture just to prove your misunderstanding. Or i take it that you lifted this from a source so you're not to bear the blame? Either way the author of this piece really shot himself in the foot with the scriptures chosen. To begin with, he twists Heb 3:14 which says "we become partakers of christ if we hold our initial profession faithful to the end"....and unfortunately you can't change it to say what you wish because v13 clearly says that "we should exhort each other or else any becomes hardened through the delusion of sin" showing the intention was to warn believers to hold on faithfully to the end or else they are in danger of missing what is theirs in Christ, the whole context of the passage was to warn of the danger and not to reassure. Secondly, 1Jn 5:12 which you chose goes further to say in v16..."pray only for the brother who sins not unto death but not for he who sins unto death"...the context again shows that if we "have the son, we have life"...v12 but we can go on to "sin unto death"...v16. Your two choices of scripture already refute your claims. But to refute further, the Lord himself foretold events that will unfold before He returns including "...afflictions and persecution against believers.. such that lawlessness will multiply, and the love of many growing cold but ONLY he that endures to the end will be SAVED" Mat 24:9-13 just as the point in Heb 3. Again Paul warns ...(Heb 10:26-27, 6:4-6). Again Peter warns, 2Pet 2:1...that there will be false teachers... even denying the Lord Jesus that bought them...who will receive the reward of unrighteousness(v13)...who after escaping by the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus are again entangled in sin...(v20)....it would have been better not to have known than having known to turn back...(v21). So OP, please prove yourself to be a humble adherent to Lord Jesus and scripture by correcting your thread, if you can see truth in what I've said. We all make mistakes after all. Bless you.

solite3:
we are not in the tribulation yet.

I completely agree. That is still about seven years out. Nonetheless, I was not saying that the Tribulation is the only test for our Faith. Everyday of our lives, our faith is tested in some degree, and there are special seasons of testing when we go through a lot of trouble to prove whether our Faith is of the genuine sort or not. This happens and has happened to all believers at all times throughout history.

Failure to appreciate this leads many believers to failing to build up their Faith to be able to handle these tests. As I shared earlier with you, the Scripture says,

The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Matthew 13:20-21 NIV1984

solite3:
I believe in pretribulation rapture and have very good reason to believe it.

You know my policy: I don't dictate to anyone what they must or must not believe. I don't think that the Scriptures teach pretrib rapture or any kind of rapture at all, at least, not in the sense in which the word is commonly used today. One of the passages I shared with you was the following:

[1]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [2]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [3]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (i.e., the day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB

As it says quite clearly, the Day of the Lord, which is the Day of His Coming and our Gathering together to Him (Matthew 24:30-31), will not come until the Great Apostasy happens and the Antichrist is revealed. The Great Apostasy will happen in the Tribulation. The Antichrist will also be revealed during the Tribulation, at its midpoint, to be exact. I don't really see how it is wise then or how there is any good reason to believe anything different.

That is just to describe to you what I see in the Bible. I am not demanding that you agree with me.

solite3:
What is unbiblical? Rather it is the teaching that a saved person can be unsaved that is actually unbiblical.
A saved person is born of God and can not perish because God keeps him.

The following are Bible passages that I posted in response to your thread. I did provide commentary on them, but I really didn't need to, since they are themselves very clear. They don't need interpreting to put their message across, since this is part of the Gospel, the basic doctrine of the Truth, that is, it is not an advanced teaching at all:

Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 NIV1984

[1]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [2]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [3]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB

The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Matthew 13:20-21 NIV1984

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:12-13 NIV1984

solite3:
fire brand? You dont know what it means to be born from above hence your argument.
If she had a new birth she wouldnt have died in sin.
You think people die by mistake? Not even a single bird who are lesser animals die outside the knowledge of the father how much more humans.
Look when one is born again, he is regenerated spiritually and passed from death to life. Furthermore the holy Spirit takes permanent residence in him. He has eternal life and the father and Jesus Christ keeps him to the end as the Holy Spirit in him is also his seal until the appearance of Christ.
If a bornagain Christian do sin, the spirit in him will convict him and lead him to repentance. God through hardship, or through other believers will put him back on track and because of his regenerated state he will obey the voice of christ and as a Son he will remember his father.

The story of the prodigal son very much explains things.
The prodigal son departure was cut short by events that happened to him and guess who is in charge of times and happenings? Yes God.
Secondly he remembered where he belonged and guess who made him remembered? (the holy Spirit) and whose voice he heard? (Jesus)
The father knew his son would return home because he was his Son.

Although there is a loss of reward but his soul was saved.

A bornagain christian can lose his reward in heaven but God would make sure he or she gets home safe.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.




1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I have already answered the question of OSAS in my comments above and previously, so this response is not about to rehash them again. Also, I don't agree with your respondent in his own arguments. The following is what I have to say about your comments above:

1. About people being kept from dying in sin, to begin with, as I said above, we are all tested as to the enduring quality of our faith, so after we are saved, it's not as if we can never again turn away from the Lord if that is what we wish to do. The Scriptures don't teach that at all. In fact, when we sin, the Lord disciplines us to teach us to fear Him. If we do not respond positively to that discipline, but rather continue in our sin, the discipline only increases and persists until eventually, we either throw away our faith (apostasy, that is, reverting to unbelief) or the Lord ends our life here on Earth to cease our bad witness (that is, the sin unto death, see King Saul, for example). That is to say, if anyone is persisting in sin against the Lord as an unbeliever, the Lord will discipline them and continue to increase the discipline until they (i)turn away from their sin; (ii)throw their Faith away in order to give themselves fully to sin, and the Lord stops disciplining them; or (iii)die as a result of the increasing discipline, in order to preserve their Faith and end their bad witness.

2. If anyone suffers the sin unto death, they lose all their eternal rewards, although they themselves are saved in the end. But this is not a pleasant thing to experience. Consider King Saul, for example. He died believing, but the Lord put him through a lot of embarrassing discipline for his disobedience in the matter of Amalek, and instead of learning his lesson, he continued to worsen his own situation with his stubbornness. He tried to kill the person the Lord anointed to replace him, suffering embarrassing failure after embarrassing failure in doing so, losing good men and soldiers to David in the process. In the end, the Lord wouldn't even speak to him anymore. Instead of repentance, he worsened his situation further by going to the Witch of Endor. There, he sealed his own fate and received the Lord's death sentence. He died the day after that. See Ananias and Sapphira, for another example. What they did in Acts 5 resulted in their own deaths, and it was very likely the sort of thing that they had been doing for a while as believers. As for the eternity side of things, of course, if the sinning believer finds themselves saved in spite of their terrible behavior, they would be more than relieved, but the loss of eternal reward is no mean thing. To suffer rebuke at the Judgment Seat of the Lord Jesus in front of the whole Church at the Second Advent is not going to be a pleasant experience at all. So, the sin unto death is not the kind of experience that any believer with any sense at all would be taking comfort in. We are here to demonstrate emphatically how much we love the Lord and trust Him. Maintaining a sinning streak without confession is a very poor way to do that.

3. Nonetheless, the fact that some people would hang on to their Faith even if the Lord kills them through the sin unto death for their terrible witness is no proof at all that those who believe cannot fall away. They most certainly can. If anyone is disciplined by the Lord for sin, they most certainly can choose to blame the Lord for the discipline and throw their Faith away as a result of their anger. That does happen. Demas (2 Timothy 4:10; compare Colossians 4:14; Philemon 1:24) may not have thrown his Faith away because of the Lord's discipline, but he certainly threw it away because of his love for this world. If he could do that, suffering discipline is not guaranteed to make the disciplined believer love the Lord more. Some people would and do throw their Faith away when the Lord disciplines them for their bad behavior.

A born again Christian filled with the Holy Spirit cannot lose his/her salvation because the life he or she have is eternal life which cannot be cut short.

What is the meaning of "salvation" ?

It mean preservation from destruction or calamity.

that question is a commonsense one for even any averagely smart 6 year old who knows the meaning of salvation.

A christian can lose his/her salvation and not every church goer is Christ-like or a Christian.

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

You are very wrong. What is salvation? Who is a Christian? Is a Christian one who writes Christianity in WAEC form or one who is Christlike?A christian can lose his/her salvation. Even the logic of "the unpardonable sin" support that fact.

CaveAdullam:
A born again Christian filled with the Holy Spirit cannot lose his/her salvation because the life his or she has is eternal life which cannot be cut short.

Ihedinobi3:

1. About people being kept from dying in sin, to begin with, as I said above, we are all tested as to the enduring quality of our faith, so after we are saved, it's not as if we can never again turn away from the Lord if that is what we wish to do. The Scriptures don't teach that at all. In fact, when we sin, the Lord disciplines us to teach us to fear Him. If we do not respond positively to that discipline, but rather continue in our sin, the discipline only increases and persists until eventually, we either throw away our faith (apostasy, that is, reverting to unbelief) or the Lord ends our life here on Earth to cease our bad witness (that is, the sin unto death, see King Saul, for example). That is to say, if anyone is persisting in sin against the Lord as an unbeliever, the Lord will discipline them and continue to increase the discipline until they (i)turn away from their sin; (ii)throw their Faith away in order to give themselves fully to sin, and the Lord stops disciplining them; or (iii)die as a result of the increasing discipline, in order to preserve their Faith and end their bad witness.

2. If anyone suffers the sin unto death, they lose all their eternal rewards, although they themselves are saved in the end. But this is not a pleasant thing to experience. Consider King Saul, for example. He died believing, but the Lord put him through a lot of embarrassing discipline for his disobedience in the matter of Amalek, and instead of learning his lesson, he continued to worsen his own situation with his stubbornness. He tried to kill the person the Lord anointed to replace him, suffering embarrassing failure after embarrassing failure in doing so, losing good men and soldiers to David in the process. In the end, the Lord wouldn't even speak to him anymore. Instead of repentance, he worsened his situation further by going to the Witch of Endor. There, he sealed his own fate and received the Lord's death sentence. He died the day after that. See Ananias and Sapphira, for another example. What they did in Acts 5 resulted in their own deaths, and it was very likely the sort of thing that they had been doing for a while as believers. As for the eternity side of things, of course, if the sinning believer finds themselves saved in spite of their terrible behavior, they would be more than relieved, but the loss of eternal reward is no mean thing. To suffer rebuke at the Judgment Seat of the Lord Jesus in front of the whole Church at the Second Advent is not going to be a pleasant experience at all. So, the sin unto death is not the kind of experience that any believer with any sense at all would be taking comfort in. We are here to demonstrate emphatically how much we love the Lord and trust Him. Maintaining a sinning streak without confession is a very poor way to do that.

3. Nonetheless, the fact that some people would hang on to their Faith even if the Lord kills them through the sin unto death for their terrible witness is no proof at all that those who believe cannot fall away. They most certainly can. If anyone is disciplined by the Lord for sin, they most certainly can choose to blame the Lord for the discipline and throw their Faith away as a result of their anger. That does happen. Demas (2 Timothy 4:10; compare Colossians 4:14; Philemon 1:24) may not have thrown his Faith away because of the Lord's discipline, but he certainly threw it away because of his love for this world. If he could do that, suffering discipline is not guaranteed to make the disciplined believer love the Lord more. Some people would and do throw their Faith away when the Lord disciplines them for their bad behavior.

Your understanding of doctrine is balanced enough but I would like to reason with you on the sin unto death. This death is not natural but spiritual (absence of eternal life) as clearly shown in the context (1Jn 5:11-12), i.e. life is eternal life here, from which he goes on to talk about sinning unto death(losing eternal life). In fact in the whole letter of 1Jn, the use of death is spiritual death as in 1Jn 3:14 as well as in Paul's(Rom 6:23, 5:17,24). Furthermore, we are in fact asked to pray for believers who sin to natural death which is by terminal sickness brought by sin (Jam 5: 14-15). So please correct your post to that brother. God bless you.

Finallydead:











OP, if u're gonna misunderstand scripture, its still understandable but what's not understandable is you not being afraid to actually tamper with scripture just to prove your misunderstanding. Or i take it that you lifted this from a source so you're not to bear the blame? Either way the author of this piece really shot himself in the foot with the scriptures chosen. To begin with, he twists Heb 3:14 which says "we become partakers of christ if we hold our initial profession faithful to the end"....and unfortunately you can't change it to say what you wish because v13 clearly says that "we should exhort each other or else any becomes hardened through the delusion of sin" showing the intention was to warn believers to hold on faithfully to the end or else they are in danger of missing what is theirs in Christ, the whole context of the passage was to warn of the danger and not to reassure. Secondly, 1Jn 5:12 which you chose goes further to say in v16..."pray only for the brother who sins not unto death but not for he who sins unto death"...the context again shows that if we "have the son, we have life"...v12 but we can go on to "sin unto death"...v16. Your two choices of scripture already refute your claims. But to refute further, the Lord himself foretold events that will unfold before He returns including "...afflictions and persecution against believers.. such that lawlessness will multiply, and the love of many growing cold but ONLY he that endures to the end will be SAVED" Mat 24:9-13 just as the point in Heb 3. Again Paul warns ...let no man deceive you, do not be partakers in sins, because of the wrath of God coming... Eph 5:6-7 so please OP as he said do not deceive us and also "do not let fornication....be named among you for no such has inheritance in the kingdom of God and Christ..." (v3-5). Again Peter warns, 2Pet 2:1...that there will be false teachers... even denying the Lord Jesus that bought them...who will receive the reward of unrighteousness(v13)...who after escaping by the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus are again entangled in sin...(v20)....it would have been better not to have known than having known to turn back...(v21). So OP, prove yourself to be a humble adherent to Lord Jesus and scripture by correcting your thread, we all make mistakes after all. Bless you.

I don't think you read the thread, nothing wrong there, it is all from the bible.

solite3:
fire brand? You dont know what it means to be born from above hence your argument.
If she had a new birth she wouldnt have died in sin.
You think people die by mistake? Not even a single bird who are lesser animals die outside the knowledge of the father how much more humans.
Look when one is born again, he is regenerated spiritually and passed from death to life. Furthermore the holy Spirit takes permanent residence in him. He has eternal life and the father and Jesus Christ keeps him to the end as the Holy Spirit in him is also his seal until the appearance of Christ.
If a bornagain Christian do sin, the spirit in him will convict him and lead him to repentance. God through hardship, or through other believers will put him back on track and because of his regenerated state he will obey the voice of christ and as a Son he will remember his father.

The story of the prodigal son very much explains things.
The prodigal son departure was cut short by events that happened to him and guess who is in charge of times and happenings? Yes God.
Secondly he remembered where he belonged and guess who made him remembered? (the holy Spirit) and whose voice he heard? (Jesus)
The father knew his son would return home because he was his Son.

Although there is a loss of reward but his soul was saved.

A bornagain christian can lose his reward in heaven but God would make sure he or she gets home safe.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.




1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You would have merge this comment in your post solite3 because you just hit the nail on the head without looking backward.

There is a difference between REWARD AND SALVATION, and this is where the problem really lies when it comes to the issue of eternal security. Once you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, nothing in heaven, on earth and beneath the earth can separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

If a Christian die in sin which I STILL THINK IS IMPOSSIBLE; BECAUSE OF THE QUICK CONVICTIONS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, THAT CHRISTIAN WILL LOSE HIS REWARD BUT NOT ETERNAL LIFE.

And If we have an understanding about the spiritual world we wouldn't be arguing about this. The call and final quest by Rick Joyner, spiritual world by Peter Tan and Gospel dialogue by watchman Nee are books that are of great help in regards to this topic.

Thanks.

God bless.

Finallydead:




Your understanding of doctrine is balanced enough but I would like to correct you on the sin unto death. This death is not natural but spiritual (absence of eternal life) as clearly shown in the context (1Jn 5:11-12), i.e. life is eternal life here, from which he goes on to talk about sinning unto death(losing eternal life). In fact in the whole letter of 1Jn, the use of death is spiritual death as in 1Jn 3:14 as well as in Paul's(Rom 6:23, 5:17,24). Furthermore, we are in fact asked to pray for believers who sin to natural death which is by terminal sickness brought by sin (Jam 5: 14-15). So please correct your post to that brother. God bless you.

Hello.

I stand by what I said. This is what I read in the Bible:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-17 (KJV)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1 John 5:16-17 (KJV)

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
James 5:14-15 (KJV)

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:30-32 (KJV)

We have eternal life if we believe in Jesus Christ. We don't have eternal life if we don't believe in Jesus Christ. That is, Salvation has nothing directly to do with behavior, as you can see from John 3:16-17 above. Sin does weaken faith, but it is possible to maintain a bad witness, that is, to be sinning recklessly while holding on to Faith in Jesus Christ. It is not an easy thing to do because faith opposes sin and sin opposes faith, but believers do manage to do it anyhow. So, the Bible does not teach anything like "sinning until loss of eternal life."

The Bible does teach though that when we are sinning without confession and acting spiritually recklessly, we risk being disciplined right up to the point of death, like the Corinthians were when they abused the Lord's Supper. We also see that, in general, this discipline is drawn out. That is, as we see with the Corinthians, the sinning believer is put through some protracted suffering generally having to do with their health ("many are weak and sickly among you" ) until they die, unless they confess their sin (James 4:15).

John says that he does not command intercession for believers who are sinning in a manner that attracts the discipline of the sin unto death. Paul tells us that we are not even supposed to acknowledge such people as fellow believers or to associate with them (1 Corinthians 5:1-13). They put themselves right in the middle of God's "purging" of the assembly. We are told that we may pray for them when they turn around from their sin and seek to be brought back into the assembly. This is what James was referring to above and what Paul was talking about in 2 Corinthians 2:5-11. That is, it may not be wise to interfere in divine discipline, especially of such a grievous sort, unless and until the sinning believer turns around from their terrible witness.

That is what I read from the Bible. I see nothing speaking of sinning until loss of eternal life anywhere in the Bible. One only loses eternal life by choosing to stop believing, not by sinning. Love for a pet sin can seduce one into choosing to stop believing, but it is not a guaranteed outcome. While we must resist sin to preserve our faith, it takes a conscious choice to stop believing in order to lose our Salvation. Merely sinning, no matter how grievously, does not result in a loss of eternal life.

Edited.

solite3:
I don't think you read the thread, nothing wrong there, it is all from the bible.

True. Its all from the bible but misunderstood to mean what you wrongly propose. It isn't so that as soon as we make Jesus Lord, we are eternally secure and out of danger of falling back to perdition. Peter made it very clear that these apostate teachers had ALREADY escaped by the knowledge of Jesus as Lord and saviour but still turned back from following him as I showed in my post. Again the Lord made it clear that because of persecution and moral decay, the love of many believers would grow cold but only those who endure all the way to the end will be saved as shown in my post. Furthermore I showed that a brother in the Lord can sin a sin towards spiritual death(losing eternal life) according to 1Jn 5:16 [note that death is spiritual not natural as I showed to ihedinobi, the other brother ] and the reason we were asked not to pray for such is because as the Lord said in Mt 12:32, such a sin will not be forgiven ever, the same reason Paul says in Heb 6:4...it is impossible to win back the apostate believers... A clincher here is in Heb 10:26-27, another sore warning to the believer because he can fall away through willful sin and reap the fiery indignation reserved for the enemies of God. So read my first post again and you see that all the warnings i highlighted were given because one who has believed can turn back to damnation, and no one is to assume himself out of all danger of damnation just because he has made Jesus Lord and saviour and this is not because of God's inability to keep us safe but because we all are given freewill and must consciously choose His way. Note one thing friend, we can take several portions of scripture to propose one thing while there may be several other portions that contradict it outrightly. This does not mean the scripture is contradictory but just that we do not yet have understanding of what we propose. At such points, we need to just keep growing in our relationship with God and allow the Spirit bring all understanding to us in the process of time rather than sticking to what is clearly contradicted. God bless you.

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

I stand by what I said. This is what I read in the Bible:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-17 (KJV)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1 John 5:16-17 (KJV)

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
James 5:14-15 (KJV)

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:30-32 (KJV)

We have eternal life if we believe in Jesus Christ. We don't have eternal life if we don't believe in Jesus Christ. That is, Salvation has nothing directly to do with behavior, as you can see from John 3:16-17 above. Sin does weaken faith, but it is possible to maintain a bad witness, that is, to be sinning recklessly while holding on to Faith in Jesus Christ. It is not an easy thing to do because faith opposes sin and sin opposes faith, but believers do manage to do it anyhow. So, the Bible does not teach anything like "sinning until loss of eternal life."

The Bible does teach though that when we are sinning without confession and acting spiritually recklessly, we risk being disciplined right up to the point of death, like the Corinthians were when they abused the Lord's Supper. We also see that, in general, this discipline is drawn out. That is, as we see with the Corinthians, the sinning believer is put through some protracted suffering generally having to do with their health ("many are weak and sickly among you" ) until they die, unless they confess their sin (James 4:15).

John says that he does not command intercession for believers who are sinning in a manner that attracts the discipline of the sin unto death. Paul tells us that we are not even supposed to acknowledge such people as fellow believers or to associate with them (1 Corinthians 5:1-13). They put themselves right in the middle of God's "purging" of the assembly. We are told that we may pray for them when they turn around from their sin and seek to be brought back into the assembly. This is what James was referring to above and what Paul was talking about in 2 Corinthians 2:5-11. That is, it may not be wise to interfere in divine discipline, especially of such a grievous sort, unless and until the sinning believer turns around from their terrible witness.

That is what I read from the Bible. I see nothing speaking of sinning until loss of eternal life anywhere in the Bible. One only loses eternal life by choosing to stop believing, not by sinning. Love for a pet sin can seduce one into choosing to stop believing, but it is not a guaranteed outcome. While we must resist sin to preserve our faith, it takes a conscious choice to stop believing in order to lose our Salvation. Merely sinning, no matter how grievously, does not result in a loss of eternal life.

Edited.

I wouldn't want this to become an argument though but i already acknowledged that there is such a judgement of sickness unto natural death for sin and we can intercede on behalf of those who do such, if God permits (Jam 5:14-15), as well as all the scriptures you quoted. But do not mistake this to be what John talks about just because he did not mention "spiritual" death or because he called it 'sin unto death'. Whenever we see the word death in scripture, we have to look at the context to know what kind is referred to. I tried showing you he never attached "spiritual" when refering to absence of eternal life but throughout his letter death always meant spiritual death (1Jn 3:14) and the reason he asked not to pray for that is because as the Lord said in Mt 12:32, such a sin will never be forgiven. It is reiterated in Heb 6:4 and Heb 10:26-27 as the willful 'sin' which leaves no more atonement, so John says there is no use praying for such. However, you would hardly, maybe never in your entire life, find a believer that sins this way, which still does not remove that possibility. I never suggested that the sin unto death is frequent or habitual sinning in the first place. You may call it choosing not to believe or whatever, it is even sometimes called apostasy but that is still called a sin in scripture, and is in fact the sin unto death that John speaks of so i don't see that as a point for ...all unrighteousness is sin..(1Jn 5:17) and whatever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23)

Romans:29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Romans 8:29-30 is the only chain in the entire Bible. It is a chain of different rings linked together. This is a most precious and complete chain. The first ring of this chain is God's foreknowledge of man. The second ring is our predestination to be conformed to the image of His Son. The third ring is the calling of those who have been predestinated. The fourth ring is the justification of those who have been called. The fifth ring is the glorification of those who have been justified. It is a series of rings linked to one another. We think that we first knew God when we were saved and justified. But the Bible says that before we were saved and justified, God knew us already. Those whom God knew long ago, He marked out. To be marked out means to have a check mark put by our name, indicating that He has claimed us for Himself. For what purpose were we marked out? It is so that we would be like His unique Son, Jesus Christ. He not only wants one Son, Jesus Christ; He came to mark us out so that we would be identical to His Son. Those who were marked out are called. The ones who are called are known by Him. He called the ones whom He knew and marked out. After He called them, He justified them.

If justification is the first step in a Christian's relationship with God, it does not matter much for us not to be justified again in the future. If I pick up two pennies today and throw them into the fire tomorrow, it does not matter much to me. Not to be justified is, of course, a loss on man's part. But God suffers no loss. However, we have to know that the history of our relationship with God does not start from justification and salvation. Rather, it starts from God's foreknowledge. God's foreknowledge is the beginning of everything. To be marked out is the second step. To be called is the third step. Only after the third step do we have justification. If we were to lose our justification and become sinners again, we would put a question mark on God's omniscience. Since God foreknew us and marked us out, how can we still perish after we are saved? A person predestinated by God can never be thrown into hell and burned like a piece of wood.

Finallydead:


I wouldn't want this to become an argument though but i already acknowledged that there is such a judgement of sickness unto natural death for sin and we can intercede on behalf of those who do such, if God permits (Jam 5:14-15), as well as all the scriptures you quoted. But do not mistake this to be what John talks about just because he did not mention "spiritual" death or because he called it 'sin unto death'. Whenever we see the word death in scripture, we have to look at the context to know what kind is referred to. I tried showing you he never attached "spiritual" when refering to absence of eternal life but throughout his letter death always meant spiritual death (1Jn 3:14) and the reason he asked not to pray for that is because as the Lord said in Mt 12:32, such a sin will never be forgiven. It is reiterated in Heb 6:4 and Heb 10:26-27 as the willful 'sin' which leaves no more atonement, so John says there is no use praying for such. However, you would hardly, maybe never in your entire life, find a believer that sins this way, which still does not remove that possibility. I never suggested that the sin unto death is frequent or habitual sinning in the first place. You may call it choosing not to believe or whatever, it is even sometimes called apostasy but that is still called a sin in scripture, and is in fact the sin unto death that John speaks of so i don't see that as a point for ...all unrighteousness is sin..(1Jn 5:17) and whatever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23)

Regarding argument, I generally expect to be challenged about what I teach, and I don't mind the challenge. I much prefer being asked politely for clarification, but I don't choose my audience. There are those too who are offended by any allusion to teaching authority on my part, and they respond with very offensive challenges to what I say. It just comes with the territory, so I don't mind if you want to debate any given point in my submissions. This part of my ministry necessitates that in more than a few cases.

Regarding James 5, as I said before, prayer for those who are suffering the sin unto death is only sanctioned when they themselves return from their bad behavior. If you remember what we learn from 1 Corinthians 5, you can see that such people are supposed to be excluded from the assembly until they stop sinning so blatantly. The example in 1 Corinthians 5 was of a man who was openly parading his father's wife (very likely ex-wife) as his wife. He may have even married her (probably had, judging by how they accepted them in the assembly), but this was a terrible thing to do. Not even unbelievers would do such a thing with a straight face. In other words, this was an open sin, a failure that was out in the open, and one in which the believer in question was indulging with no remorse. A similar example would be a believer who is openly dishonest in business and is not shy of it, but still comes to the assembly to ostensibly encourage others in the Truth. That is a terrible witness to the Lord. Allowing such a thing would communicate that we approve of it, and, since we as a group are together ostensibly for the Lord, that the Lord does too. For this reason, the church is supposed to remove the person from among them and refuse to associate with him until he stops what he is doing wrong that is giving the Lord such a bad name.

The passage in James 5 is concerned with the return of such a believer. When he realizes that his suffering is from the Lord and confesses his sin to the Lord, he can go to the pastor-teacher(s) in charge of the assembly and ask to be brought back into the church. In the days of the Apostles, at that substantive time in history, oil had medical properties (it still does, but we don't recognize it as much), so it was applied in medical situations. So the pastor-teacher was to intercede for the repentant believer and give what medical help he could and receive him back into the assembly. That is to say, intercession was only done because he had quit his sin.

This dovetails with what John teaches in 1 John 5. We are not commanded to or encouraged to intercede for someone who is sinning openly, in a way that gives a bad witness about the Lord. That person is courting trouble with the Lord and we are rather to isolate them spiritually and leave the Lord to sort that out. That is what we are taught in the Bible.

As for the sin that cannot be forgiven, it is unbelief. That is the only sin that costs us eternal life. If we refuse to believe the Gospel, we will not be saved. If we first believe and then turn around and stop believing, we will not be saved. That is the unforgivable sin, and it is the same thing that Paul speaks of in Hebrews 10. If we reject the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, then there is no other Sacrifice by which we can be saved. Unbelief is the sin that cannot be forgiven. It is not the same as the sin unto death. The sin unto death is a discipline from the Lord that is administered to end a believer's bad witness to the Lord.

ichuka:
Romans:29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Romans 8:29-30 is the only chain in the entire Bible. It is a chain of different rings linked together. This is a most precious and complete chain. The first ring of this chain is God's foreknowledge of man. The second ring is our predestination to be conformed to the image of His Son. The third ring is the calling of those who have been predestinated. The fourth ring is the justification of those who have been called. The fifth ring is the glorification of those who have been justified. It is a series of rings linked to one another. We think that we first knew God when we were saved and justified. But the Bible says that before we were saved and justified, God knew us already. Those whom God knew long ago, He marked out. To be marked out means to have a check mark put by our name, indicating that He has claimed us for Himself. For what purpose were we marked out? It is so that we would be like His unique Son, Jesus Christ. He not only wants one Son, Jesus Christ; He came to mark us out so that we would be identical to His Son. Those who were marked out are called. The ones who are called are known by Him. He called the ones whom He knew and marked out. After He called them, He justified them.

If justification is the first step in a Christian's relationship with God, it does not matter much for us not to be justified again in the future. If I pick up two pennies today and throw them into the fire tomorrow, it does not matter much to me. Not to be justified is, of course, a loss on man's part. But God suffers no loss. However, we have to know that the history of our relationship with God does not start from justification and salvation. Rather, it starts from God's foreknowledge. God's foreknowledge is the beginning of everything. To be marked out is the second step. To be called is the third step. Only after the third step do we have justification. If we were to lose our justification and become sinners again, we would put a question mark on God's omniscience. Since God foreknew us and marked us out, how can we still perish after we are saved? A person predestinated by God can never be thrown into hell and burned like a piece of wood.

Hello ichuka.

Hyper-Calvinism is popular and, unfortunately, wrong. Its popularity is only a problem because it is wrong. It is not wrong just because it is popular.

God's Predestination or Foreordination of believers does not remove our free will. Minus free will, there is no reason for man's existence at all, much less for the things we go through here on earth.

God has always been and always is omniscient. So He chose us to be saved before we were even created because He knew that we will choose to be saved during our lives here on Earth. That is what Predestination means. It does not mean that we had no choice but to be saved. Only those who choose to believe in Jesus Christ and hold on to that faith in Him until the end of their mortal lives are saved. This is a matter of choice as the Bible teaches. No one is forced to love the Lord or to believe in Him. No one is forced not to love the Lord or to believe in Him. See John 3:16-21; 1:12.

As long as we choose to believe, we are saved. The Image of God that we possess means that it is only us who can decide our fate. Not even the Lord Himself interferes in our choice, how much less any creature. This is what makes our eternal salvation so safe. The freedom of our will is guaranteed by the Lord God Himself. Nobody can tamper with our right to choose. If we want to be saved, there is no force in Heaven, on earth, or under the earth that can stop us from being saved. If we don't want to be saved, the same is true: nothing can make us saved. It is entirely up to us to choose. The work for our Salvation has already been done by the Lord Himself. Ours is merely to decide if we want it to apply to us or not, and to hold on to our choice when it is made.

So, for example, Pharaoh decides that he will only rebel against the Lord. Not even the great plagues that the Lord unleashes upon him stop him from doing so. In fact, with every new plague, he only chooses to harden himself more against the Lord. The Bible does say that the Lord Himself hardened him, but that only means that the Lord provided him with special enabling to harden himself. Our free will is powered by the Lord Himself, so if He does not provide us with the ability to exercise it, we simply would not be able to choose anything at all. The choosing is done entirely by us, but it is the Lord who provides us with the ability to choose in the first place.

So, the fact that the Bible teaches the Predestination or Foreordination of believers does not at all mean that a true believer cannot choose to throw his faith away. The Lord Jesus taught us the exact opposite in Matthew 13. We can choose to stop believing. We ought not to, but we can. If we want to avoid being seduced or threatened into doing so, then we ought to grow spiritually and become able to stand resolute in our faith no matter what lies we are told or what we are threatened with (Ephesians 4:11-16).

Hmm

Jehovah is still in a spiritual cage, so are all the gods of religions including Allah, Moloch, Ahura Mazda, etc.
The time for religion to be relegated to the background has started and time is ticking on religion. The Age of Full Enlightenment is here and humanity is entering into a new age.

May the Light of God Almighty which created Jehovah, Allah, Moloch, Olorun, Abassi etc speedily spread the truth of the origins of the universes to humanity. Aseee!!!