A40:
Exactly. Giannis style might not be aesthetically pleasing to a purist but there is something about a baller that wants all the smoke on both ends of the floor. Somehow some way they will have their team playing better than their talent levels

The purist sef would rather watch Giannis than say a Harden. There are plenty of players more talented and skilled than Adetokunbo in the NBA but you can literally count on one hand the amount of players that have similar impact on their team's sucess.

Exciting NBA finals match ups.

Lakers vs Celtics (The lakers celtics rivalry speaks for itself plus lebron vs the celtics)

Clippers vs Celtics (Return of Doc Rivers)

Clippers vs Raptors (Return of Load Management , plus the battle of the sixth men)

Lakers vs Raptors (Battle for LeBronto)

Lakers vs Sixers (For the best big in the league)

Lakers vs Bucks (AD vs Giannis)

Lakers vs Heat (Duh!)

A pipe dream would be Hawks vs the Mavericks, maybe sometime in the future.

If you notice how most of these options feature the lakers its because any finals without LeBron is likely going to be boring.

KarnBarlow:


Not really, go check out the run he went on after boogie went down from the regular season and into to the playoffs. Oh and AD played in the West. This Bucks team is solid, well balanced with good role players and again, they're in the east.

Yes really. If you take Lebron out of the Lakers and ask AD to lead that team, AD takes the team to His customary High 30s- Low 40s number of wins.

Yes the Bucks are Solid but so were AD's pels. The way Jokic lead His injury ravaged squad to a top 2 seed last season tells me AD has literally no excuses.

KarnBarlow:


Not really, go check out the run he went on after boogie went down from the regular season and into to the playoffs. Oh and AD played in the West. This Bucks team is solid, well balanced with good role players and again, they're in the east.

Yes really. If you take Lebron out of the Lakers and ask AD to lead that team, AD takes the team to His customary High 30s- Low 40s number of wins.

Yes the Bucks are Solid but so were AD's pels. The way Jokic lead His injury ravaged squad to a top seed last season tells me AD has literally no excuses whatsoever.

KarnBarlow:


Theres a difference between being the most complete and being the most prolific. R9 bastituta Muller were probably more complete scorers than messi but certainly not as prolific.

lmao son what

donlittle25:
lmao son what

Whats so difficult to comprehend about that?

chic2pimp:


Yes really. If you take Lebron out of the Lakers and ask AD to lead that team, AD takes the team to His customary High 30s- Low 40s number of wins.

Yes the Bucks are Solid but so were AD's pels. The way Jokic lead His injury ravaged squad to a top seed last season tells me AD has literally no excuses whatsoever.

Depends on who you replace LeBron with. I mean thats taking out basically the foundation of the team.


What injury ravaged nuggets squad did Jokic lead?

KarnBarlow:


LOL I was the first person to argue he didnt deserve ROTY on this thread, the first person to mock him after his 1 point game in the playoffs. I'm certainly not a fan boy. He was a decent scorer, elite facilitator and capable defender coming into the league. The only obvious weakness in his game was his jumper and the belief was he would at least develop that to the level of a Magic who himself didnt have a reliable Jump shot (the man shot with one hand dammit). Has Simmons sh-t the bed so far? sure, but i'm just saying. The potential was there at some point and may still be there.

No you were not. That would be me.

My issue with Ben Simmons was more mentality than the obvious glaring hole in his game. It's my issue with DeRozan as well. I don't see how you hope to be elite and refuse to change a glaring weakness in your game.

How can you hope to survive in today's league as a PG without being able or willing to shoot the ball from anywhere outside 7 ft. Without a go-to move offensively. Magic had the baby skyhook. Or the mentality to know when to take over a close game because you can't efficiently facilitate a half court offense.

I didn't see the potential then and I don't think I ever will unless he shows it

chic2pimp:


The purist sef would rather watch Giannis than say a Harden. There are plenty of players more talented and skilled than Adetokunbo in the NBA but you can literally count on one hand the amount of players that have similar impact on their team's sucess.

That's why the game goes beyond skills and sometimes it comes down to heart. I wouldn't dump on Harden too hard. He's also one of the few that can carry a team

KarnBarlow:
Exciting NBA finals match ups.

Lakers vs Celtics (The lakers celtics rivalry speaks for itself plus lebron vs the celtics)

Clippers vs Celtics (Return of Doc Rivers)

Clippers vs Raptors (Return of Load Management , plus the battle of the sixth men)

Lakers vs Raptors (Battle for LeBronto)

Lakers vs Sixers (For the best big in the league)

Lakers vs Bucks (AD vs Giannis)

Lakers vs Heat (Duh!)

A pipe dream would be Hawks vs the Mavericks, maybe sometime in the future.

If you notice how most of these options feature the lakers its because any finals without LeBron is likely going to be boring.

I want the Lakers vs Bucks. Let's end this myth real quick.

Not exactly. Ben Simmons is surrounded by better players than those two.

A40:
The key difference between these guys and a Ben Simmons for example is that they want all the smoke

chic2pimp:


Yes really. If you take Lebron out of the Lakers and ask AD to lead that team, AD takes the team to His customary High 30s- Low 40s number of wins.

Yes the Bucks are Solid but so were AD's pels. The way Jokic lead His injury ravaged squad to a top 2 seed last season tells me AD has literally no excuses.

Baba, na wah for you o.

You want to compare this Bucks team to the team AD had? At one point Norris Cole was their point guard. Google that name and see where he plays now.

A40:
No you were not. That would be me.

My issue with Ben Simmons was more mentality than the obvious glaring hole in his game. It's my issue with DeRozan as well. I don't see how you hope to be elite and refuse to change a glaring weakness in your game.

How can you hope to survive in today's league as a PG without being able or willing to shoot the ball from anywhere outside 7 ft. Without a go-to move offensively. Magic had the baby skyhook. Or the mentality to know when to take over a close game because you can't efficiently facilitate a half court offense.

I didn't see the potential then and I don't think I ever will unless he shows it

The only people i remember on the same train was roland and smoosh but if you say so. I think the ben simmons stan you're looking for is decale.

There are tangibles and intangibles. Mentality is intangible and can't be measured. Can you at least admit simmons has all the tangibles bar of course his shooting? If he didnt show at least some potential he wouldnt have gone number 1 in the draft and wouldnt have been so highly rated by the scouts.

Isn't it funny how Embiid's lows positively affect Giannis? This season Embiid had zero points in a game and giannis had 50 points. Last season Giannis blocked Joel 4 times in a single game.

Take nothing away from the 76ers. They are a viable competitor in the east......Simmons just has to stop laying 'em bricks.

KarnBarlow:


I'd like to see you chime in on the NFL GOAT debate. Brady vs Rice, who do you got?

This is a very tough one!!!! I love both guys for what they have achieved on the field and they deserve this debate.

For the records, Lawrence Taylor (LT) is the best thing I have ever seen play football.

However, for the purpose of this question I will make a case for Jerry Rice as the GOAT. Please be guided that this not about the greatest team of all time but the greatest player individually whose impact changed the face of the game. Rice was scary to watch when you imagine the things he did.

To buttress this argument, take a look at his records and you would find that no one is remotely close to matching those monstrous numbers anytime soon and this is after hanging his shoes nearly 15 years ago. Also consider this, there have been immense changes with changes with how the game is officiated, player safety, media, improvements in medicine/ wellness, training, recovery and rehabilitation and other variables he did not enjoy. If both players switched eras who would be more dominant? Brady may not be too relevant because the running game dominated the era before the 00’s, Rice will kill it every day with this era and it would not be close.

Rice holds the all time reception which stands at 1549, the 2nd place is Larry Fitzgerald with 1338, all time receiving yards 22, 895, the gap between him and 2nd place Larry is nearly 7k and finally most touch down reception stands at 197, 2nd place Randy moss is at 156. No one is beating those numbers anytime soon.

Furthermore, Rice showed up during the regular season and post season, his numbers during the post season either matched or surpassed his regular season numbers, I am not sure same can be said for Brady. Again this does not dispute Brady’s greatness but we are comparing him with another player in a GOAT conversation so don’t lose sight of that. For some reason, Brady’s numbers drop during the post season or does not match his regular season output.

There is no debate who the greatest receiver is? The consensus is J. Rice, I laugh at those who dare to put Moss in the same sentence, but can we say the same for the QB position? Some have Montana, other like me troll and say Rodgers.. Finally, consistency in coaching has been very important for Brady throughout his career.

Roland17:


This is a very tough one!!!! I love both guys for what they have achieved on the field and they deserve this debate.

For the records, Lawrence Taylor (LT) is the best thing I have ever seen play football.

However, for the purpose of this question I will make a case for Jerry Rice as the GOAT. Please be guided that this not about the greatest team of all time but the greatest player individually whose impact changed the face of the game. Rice was scary to watch when you imagine the things he did.

To buttress this argument, take a look at his records and you would find that no one is remotely close to matching those monstrous numbers anytime soon and this is after hanging his shoes nearly 15 years ago. Also consider this, there have been immense changes with changes with how the game is officiated, player safety, media, improvements in medicine/ wellness, training, recovery and rehabilitation and other variables he did not enjoy. If both players switched eras who would be more dominant? Brady may not be too relevant because the running game dominated the era before the 00’s, Rice will kill it every day with this era and it would not be close.

Rice holds the all time reception which stands at 1549, the 2nd place is Larry Fitzgerald with 1338, all time receiving yards 22, 895, the gap between him and 2nd place Larry is nearly 7k and finally most touch down reception stands at 197, 2nd place Randy moss is at 156. No one is beating those numbers anytime soon.

Furthermore, Rice showed up during the regular season and post season, his numbers during the post season either matched or surpassed his regular season numbers, I am not sure same can be said for Brady. Again this does not dispute Brady’s greatness but we are comparing him with another player in a GOAT conversation so don’t lose sight of that. For some reason, Brady’s numbers drop during the post season or does not match his regular season output.

There is no debate who the greatest receiver is? The consensus is J. Rice, I laugh at those who dare to put Moss in the same sentence, but can we say the same for the QB position? Some have Montana, other like me troll and say Rodgers.. Finally, consistency in coaching has been very important for Brady throughout his career.

Thanks for the in depth analysis, easy for even someone like me to understand. I've seen some make the case for lawrence taylor being the second greatest player of all time as well after Rice. I think what you said is consistent with what i've seen most pundits say, one can argue for team success but when it comes to individual success and brilliance its not even close and Jerry Rice takes the crown by a wide margin.

Pointguardusa:
Not exactly. Ben Simmons is surrounded by better players than those two.

No. Ben is a #1 pick. He should have the mentality of being the best player on the court. He defers Everytime whether for lack of will or lack of skill but if he had an elite mentality he would not be 4th top scorer in a team with Tobias Harris and Josh friggin Richardson

KarnBarlow:


The only people i remember on the same train was roland and smoosh but if you say so. I think the ben simmons stan you're looking for is decale.

There are tangibles and intangibles. Mentality is intangible and can't be measured. Can you at least admit simmons has all the tangibles bar of course his shooting? If he didnt show at least some potential he wouldnt have gone number 1 in the draft and wouldnt have been so highly rated by the scouts.

Lool I was the #1 Donovan Mitchell advocate on this thread

I was championing the campaign since January

Sports is more intangibles than we think. This is why the most 'naturally unskilled' players can go on to become HOFers just by sheer skill and will of force

I will not deny tangibles but I know enough to realize that tangibles will never be enough. This is why any holistic scouting report always leaves room for intangibles.

I am not saying he didn't show potentials at all I am saying just because you were the best player out of a draft class does not mean you have the potential to be the best player in the league.

Being a #1 pick does not mean you have MVP potential

KarnBarlow:

The East is too complicated to rank. Its all about matchups IMO and philly even with their lack of shooting will present a challenge to anyone in the playoffs due to their length. That being said...

They have the pieces. Still doesn't take away from the fact that Simmons is the weakest link. He needs to learn to shoot. It's that simple. As A40 said, he needs to have that go get it attitude. Seems to me like he's satisfied with where he is at. Of course they don't need him shooting to win.

KarnBarlow:


Depends on who you replace LeBron with. I mean thats taking out basically the foundation of the team.


What injury ravaged nuggets squad did Jokic lead?

Doesn't matter. So far AD has shown us He isn't much of a Leader.

The Nuggets were fielding a depleted squad for large chunks of the season.

steady986:

Baba, na wah for you o.

You want to compare this Bucks team to the team AD had? At one point Norris Cole was their point guard. Google that name and see where he plays now.

Bruh AD also had Jrue. The fact remains that the Pels team with AD was decent. AD stans would have you believe it was utter trash.

KarnBarlow:


Oh please. Everyone knows the warriors are a classless organization. Sent Zaza to injure kawhi, got KD injured, paid JR to sabotage the cavs, blatantly faking injuries and tanking this season. Its embarrassing!

You're doing this on purpose though. Saying all these funny shít. It makes things less fun. Ersan C'mon

Roland17:


This is a very tough one!!!! I love both guys for what they have achieved on the field and they deserve this debate.

For the records, Lawrence Taylor (LT) is the best thing I have ever seen play football.

However, for the purpose of this question I will make a case for Jerry Rice as the GOAT. Please be guided that this not about the greatest team of all time but the greatest player individually whose impact changed the face of the game. Rice was scary to watch when you imagine the things he did.

To buttress this argument, take a look at his records and you would find that no one is remotely close to matching those monstrous numbers anytime soon and this is after hanging his shoes nearly 15 years ago. Also consider this, there have been immense changes with changes with how the game is officiated, player safety, media, improvements in medicine/ wellness, training, recovery and rehabilitation and other variables he did not enjoy. If both players switched eras who would be more dominant? Brady may not be too relevant because the running game dominated the era before the 00’s, Rice will kill it every day with this era and it would not be close.

Rice holds the all time reception which stands at 1549, the 2nd place is Larry Fitzgerald with 1338, all time receiving yards 22, 895, the gap between him and 2nd place Larry is nearly 7k and finally most touch down reception stands at 197, 2nd place Randy moss is at 156. No one is beating those numbers anytime soon.

Furthermore, Rice showed up during the regular season and post season, his numbers during the post season either matched or surpassed his regular season numbers, I am not sure same can be said for Brady. Again this does not dispute Brady’s greatness but we are comparing him with another player in a GOAT conversation so don’t lose sight of that. For some reason, Brady’s numbers drop during the post season or does not match his regular season output.

There is no debate who the greatest receiver is? The consensus is J. Rice, I laugh at those who dare to put Moss in the same sentence, but can we say the same for the QB position? Some have Montana, other like me troll and say Rodgers.. Finally, consistency in coaching has been very important for Brady throughout his career.

I think people mix up most dominant with GOAT. Shaq was arguably the most dominant and unstoppable force but he was not the GOAT

I am biased to Quarterbacks because they play the most difficult position. A WR can never influence the game like a QB can and that is just the honest truth. Also a QB has so much more to process on each snap than a wide receiver. It's not even close

Also this era banter is a slippery slope. There are rumors for example that Jerry Rice used to add a bit of stickum on his hands (which he admitted to) but I digress.
What you need to consider is Jerry Rice if he played today will never be able to put up the numbers he did for a few reasons.

1) Tight Ends were not as much of a factor as they are now

2) Running backs are pass catchers now. You think Jerry Rice puts up these numbers with Alvin Kamara or Leveon Bell in the backfield?

3) We have WR 2 that put up almost similar numbers as WR1. Antonio Brown put up over 1,000 yards for the Steelers for example but guess what? Juju Smith Schuster put up even more numbers. Why? Because teams pretty much setup to take out your best receiver. Which brings me to my next point

4) Evolution of corners. Imagine Jerry Rice lining up at WR today. They would put him against ball Hawks like Richard Sherman, Jalen Ramsey, Stephon Gilmore. Probably add a deep safety to cover as well. QBs will literally refuse to throw him the ball.

Tom Brady shows up both in the playoffs and regular season. Always! In fact I can't think of any team Tom Brady did not destroy everytime apart from the Baltimore Ratbirds. Even in the Superbowls New England lost it was not for lack of effort from Tom Brady. He might not be the most naturally gifted and aesthetically pleasing player who ever did it but with 2 minutes to go, one drive and the game on the line the last man you want marching down the field against you is Tom Brady. And we all know this

Back to the WR banter the one guy I think would have challenged Jerry for the best at his position would have been Sterling Sharpe (Shannon's brother) but injury did him a huge disservice.

chic2pimp:


Doesn't matter. So far AD has shown us He isn't much of a Leader.

The Nuggets were fielding a depleted squad for large chunks of the season.

What the hell does this even mean "isnt much of a leader"? based on what? Hes been to the semi finals in the friggin western conference and stole a game against the warriors in their prime after sweeping the trailblazers with arguably a worse supporting cast than Giannis, what exactly has giannis done in the playoffs more impressive than AD? I would argue that pelicans team would have made the ECF heck maybe even come out of the east. what narrative are you trying to peddle?

Only Gary Harris played fewer than 65 games from the nuggets core, AD lost boogie for the rest of the season. Still swept pretty much the same blazers team that beat the nuggets a year later... So again what exactly is the narrative you're trying to peddle?

A40:
Yeah I know what you mean but in a way it's also a fear in a sense because the more good products come from Europe the less opportunities for American kids and trust me the apathy would rear it's head

Ok, I get it now.

Good read for all the AD slanderers here.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2770900-how-anthony-davis-pelicans-defied-expectations-after-demarcus-cousins-injury

SmooshCHN:
You're doing this on purpose though. Saying all these funny shít. It makes things less fun. Ersan C'mon

LOL All the abuse and mockery i received at the hands of warriors fans and you expect me to not make fun of you? Naah, i'm going to have as much fun with this as possible.

But to be honest i would have preferred the warriors were fully healthy. Feels weird without them. This was supposed to be revenge season. I cant wait until you lot are back at full strength so we can break you once and for all.

SmooshCHN:
They have the pieces. Still doesn't take away from the fact that Simmons is the weakest link. He needs to learn to shoot. It's that simple. As A40 said, he needs to have that go get it attitude. Seems to me like he's satisfied with where he is at. Of course they don't need him shooting to win.

Couldnt agree more but like i said, its not as if he has much of a choice. He has Embiid, Richardson and tobias to feed, not exactly the best situation to be learning how to shoot. In the process of improving their team the sixers have stunted his growth.

A40:
Lool I was the #1 Donovan Mitchell advocate on this thread

I was championing the campaign since January

Sports is more intangibles than we think. This is why the most 'naturally unskilled' players can go on to become HOFers just by sheer skill and will of force

I will not deny tangibles but I know enough to realize that tangibles will never be enough. This is why any holistic scouting report always leaves room for intangibles.

I am not saying he didn't show potentials at all I am saying just because you were the best player out of a draft class does not mean you have the potential to be the best player in the league.

Being a #1 pick does not mean you have MVP potential

MVP doesnt necessarily mean the best player in the league it just means you're good enough to be in that MVP conversation. IMO every top 4 pick has MVP potential let alone the 1st pick depending on how he develops. For a franchise to use that high a pick on you shows that you must have shown glimpses of that potential because almost every draft class has produced an MVP caliber player.

zelgiusdigby:


Embiid used to be funny but he has crossed the line too many times and now he just comes across as a shameless bully. I'm really starting to root against the uncouth scoundrel. I hope he never escapes this picture. Friggin cry baby!

You see why today felt really good for me?

True that

A40:
No. Ben is a #1 pick. He should have the mentality of being the best player on the court. He defers Everytime whether for lack of will or lack of skill but if he had an elite mentality he would not be 4th top scorer in a team with Tobias Harris and Josh friggin Richardson

KarnBarlow:


MVP doesnt necessarily mean the best player in the league it just means you're good enough to be in that MVP conversation. IMO every top 4 pick has MVP potential let alone the 1st pick depending on how he develops. For a franchise to use that high a pick on you shows that you must have shown glimpses of that potential because almost every draft class has produced an MVP caliber player.

No. No. No.No

Being a high pick doesn't vault you into MVP conversation. DeAndre Ayton, Markelle Fultz, Jaylen Brown, Darko Milicic, Lonzo Ball are all lottery picks. Kwame Brown, Olowokandi and Anthony Bennett are also lottery picks.

A lot of factors come into play into becoming a high draft pick including the quality of the draft class. And the evaluation ability of these teams. You don't crown a player with MVP potential without bouncing a ball, unless they have shown clear transcendent talent