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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? (6829 Views)
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Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Ihedinobi3: 5:12pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:I think you're having a different argument from the one I am having. The issue is that those dots are not giant balls of gas or rock. They are just shiny dots on the Great Dome of the sky. There is no proof of any "outer space" or giant gas balls. If you can prove the existence of outer space and your giant balls of gas and rock to me, then I will prove the existence of God to you too. XxSabrinaxX:The paint is very very shiny. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Ihedinobi3: 7:23pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
missjo:Hello MissJo. Going by your submission above, the Lord was in the tomb for more than three days and three nights then yielding a similar problem. Also, the Sabbath is always the seventh day. Although the KJV translates some high days ordained by God in the Law as Sabbaths, for example, Leviticus 23:24, it is better to understand them as special days of rest, not as Sabbaths, because the Sabbath is a day specifically defined by the Lord as the seventh day. The history of that substantive period in review is that because parts of Palestine were under different political regimes, there were different calendars operational. So, the same holy days (i.e., high days) would be celebrated at different times by the Jews depending on where they lived, and even days of the week might not be uniform from one place to the other. For example, the Lord Jesus and the Twelve celebrated the Passover before He was crucified, yet He was crucified before the Passover (compare Luke 22:15 and Luke 23:54; John 13:1-2; 19:31). The Passover is always on a Sabbath (Exodus 12:6). Another thing is that every Sabbath was a holy day under the Law. But some Sabbaths were special, so-called high days, like the Passover. It was a special Sabbath. So the fact that it was called a high day did not mean that it was not a Sabbath in the usual way. It was. As for when the Lord rose, it was on the morning of the first day of the week. This is why it began to be called the Lord's Day. His first appearance was to Mary Magdalene. It is true that the exact moment was not recorded in the Bible, but given that He appeared first to Mary just after sunrise on that day, it is reasonable to assume that He had only just risen by the time that she and the other women got to the tomb. Just thought to point these things out. It's alright if you disagree. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Nobody: 8:54pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3:Even Christians will be ashamed of you How dare you say the sun is a painted disk and the paint is shiny so that makes it hot. That is just stupidity in my opinion. Even elementary school students know better than this 1 Like |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by MuttleyLaff: 8:56pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
missjo: MuttleyLaff: |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Shepherd00: 9:01pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
LordReed:So, now you believe what the Bible says? As in, Did Jesus ever lived on earth? |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by MuttleyLaff: 9:05pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff: 1 Like |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by LordReed(m): 9:06pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
Shepherd00: No I don't, doesn't stop me from discussing its contents nor does accepting that a person that was referred to as Jesus lived, mean I believe in the supernatural claims. The Pharaohs of ancient Egypt were real people and were referred to as gods, their realness does not validate a claim of godhood. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 9:11pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3:How did you come to this conclusion sir? 6pm Wednesday - 6pm Saturday has three full 12hrs daylight & 12hr evenings making a full day in each of the three days. The exact time Jesus arose is something you will never find any literature on because it was only at about 5am on Sunday morning that Mary Magdalene and the mother of James found the tomb empty. Jesus could very well have risen the previous day at the exact hour of a three-day period (exactly 6pm) or one hour after 6pm Saturday, two hours, or three hours after 6pm, etc.. No one knows the exact time. Considering that every single prophesy given by God regarding the coming Son of David (through the Virgin mother Mary descended from Nathan who was one of David's sons), the Zionic King of Israel (through the earthly father Joseph descended from the Kingly line of Solomon, Another of David's sons), were totally exact and perfect, then I as a believer have chosen to believe that Jesus rose on the exact time down to the second of a complete 3-day span because Jehovah is a God of perfection. ![]() Regarding your opinion on the Sabbath, sir it's common historical knowledge that the High day of the passover in Jewish culture held on Thursdays, and it is also referred to as Sabbath. If John in his gospel had not even noted this particular sabbath was the high day, scholars would naturally have assumed it was a Friday - Saturday count. Just the insertion of the "high day" reference is enough to squash any doubt that the count started on 6pm Wednesday. Moses in Genesis deliberately noted how the creator counts a human day: Genesis 1:5 King James Version (KJV) 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:8 King James Version (KJV) 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. [Evening and morning NOT morning and evening] You of all people should know that most scriptures can always be confirmed by reference to another. In which case, anyone who still believes that Jesus was buried on a Friday and not found in the sepulchre on Sunday morning will definitely have a hard time proving that he spent 3days & 3nights as prophesied. Prophesies from God were mostly fulfilled literally and I doubt you will find any in the entire compilation of the present Bible that wasn't fulfilled literally, not to mention when it now involved a Prophesy of God himself becoming flesh, dying and resurrecting. By the way, sixth hour and ninth hour in the Jewish clock is 12noon and 3pm respectively. I just inserted this here for anyone who wants to confirm the exact time darkness came over the land while Jesus hung on the cross an also the exact time Joseph of Arimathea enters the story to talk to Pilate. Cheers. cc: LordReed 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 9:16pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Muttley why are you counting the period of Jesus hanging on the cross as part of the days and nights? The prophesies do clearly state ... in the grave for three days and three nights. 1 Like |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Ihedinobi3: 9:27pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
Ob3kpa:I don't think I mind very much. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 9:36pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
LordReed:Not true sir. Once you disregard the false notion that his death and burial happened on a Friday, every other thing begins to make sense and fall in place. Refer to and/or research the High Day of the passover (Thursday Sabbath) as emphasized by the Gospel of John in 19:31. They didn't go on Thursday because it was a High day of passover. They prepared the spices on Friday. They didn't go on Saturday because it was the main Sabbath. Very early on Sunday morning was convenient, they did not even want to wait for the sun to come up. 1 Like |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by LordReed(m): 9:45pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
missjo: The text says they rested on THE Sabbath day, not on Sabbath days. Unless you mean to say that THE provides you with some ambiguity, I don't see how you can argue for a 3 day break. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Ihedinobi3: 9:47pm On Nov 29, 2019 |
missjo:If the Lord did not rise by 6pm on the dot on Saturday according to your scheme here, then He was dead for more than 72 hours (note also that He died before 6pm on the day that He died and that is really when the count begins because "the heart of the earth" is really Sheol or Hades, not merely the physical tomb in which He was laid). Also, according to the Scriptures, He was to rise on the third day. Your scheme has Him rising on the fourth. As for when the Lord arose, you can believe that it really was Sunday, because that is why the first day of the week came to be called the Lord's Day in the Bible. As for the rest of your objection, I already provided an explanation in my first answer on this thread and in that response to you. To recap, first of all, the ancient world had something that historians call "inclusive counting" when they counted days. So, Friday afternoon to Sunday morning would have been three days and three nights to the Jews to whom the Lord Jesus was speaking in Matthew 12:40. Second, political realities of ancient Palestine meant that there were multiple calendars governing different places, so, for example, the Passover was celebrated in Bethany two days before Jerusalem, both on the Sabbath too. So, our Lord ate the Passover the night before He was crucified a day before the Passover too. As far as the Scriptures and the ancient world are concerned, the prophecy of our Lord's time in death was perfectly and literally fulfilled. It doesn't matter that atheists who love lies don't agree. This is not really an important issue. Of course, all the truths in the Bible are important, but whether you think the Lord Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday or on a Friday is of little account to your Salvation, so I am not going to debate or quarrel with you or anybody about this. I am quite sure that things are as I've just stated, but it is okay if you disagree. Edited. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by RandomGuy48: 12:43am On Nov 30, 2019 |
LordReed:I literally just explained how it was literal according to the Jewish reckoning of time. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by RandomGuy48: 1:28am On Nov 30, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:This argument is often made. The problem is how few records we actually have from that time period to begin with, and how few of what we do have would have any reason to mention Jesus at all. For example: http://www.tektonics.org/qt/remslist.php Lastly and most importantly, we have no reputable account of a resurrection. What we have are 3 contradictory stories that were written more than 70 to 120 years after the supposed event.The dating of the gospels is of course a complicated subject (I favor early dates for the synoptics but can understand the arguments for later ones), but "70-120 years after the supposed event" is a fairly fringe position. Even the more critical scholars date the gospels to the first century, except for perhaps John which sometimes gets put into the early second century. 70 is more akin to the maximum years after Jesus's death for the writing of the gospels by scholars, not the minimum. As for the stories being contradictory: http://www.tektonics.org/qt/rezrvw.php What we have is Paul's version that never mentions miracles, virgin birth, or ministry on earth. We have Paul who admits that everything he knows comes from scripture or divine inspiration and he only knows about a Jesus who exists in the heavens. From Paul's version to the gospels, each story gains in complexity.Paul would have little reason to go into details about miracles, the virgin birth, or ministry on Earth. Paul's letters, after all, were advice being sent to churches, i.e. people who were already Christians who already knew about the life of Jesus (this is in contrast to the Gospels, where the point was to let people know about the life of Jesus). You don't need to spend time reminding them of things they would have been well acquainted with already, especially given this was a time period where paper wasn't as easy to get and there was reason to save space. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by MuttleyLaff: 2:51am On Nov 30, 2019 |
missjo: ![]() missjo, it is because Jesus was on the cross by 9:00am, died by 3:00pm Thursday day and was buried on same Thursday day before sundown, thats to fulfil the prophecy that clearly stated "... in the grave for three days and three nights" Also missjo, remember that, a Jewish day begins and ends at sundown, as in, the time in the evening when the sun disappears or daylight fades. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by LordReed(m): 7:27am On Nov 30, 2019 |
RandomGuy48: I mean it was not a literal 72hr period and going by the timeline given in the bible, it was about 40hrs. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Ihedinobi3: 7:54am On Nov 30, 2019 |
RandomGuy48:For whatever it may be worth, I thought to explain these people to you... Maybe you'll have better luck, but these folks really don't ask questions in order to have answers, especially from anyone who actually believes what the Bible says. They ask because they think there are no good answers to their questions. So, they'll keep asking the same question in hopes of finding a believer who doesn't know the answers, so that they can enjoy mocking him. Not that they don't mock even those who can give good answers to their questions, they do that too. It's just that much easier to mock those who can't. You may notice that I answered the same question about the literalness of the statement before you did. Twice, in fact. RandomGuy48:Your answer here reminded me of this one I made several months ago: https://www.nairaland.com/5047092/good-questions-get-christians-thinking#76149992. The author of that thread made no effort to respond to my arguments there, but soon he put up this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/5056797/why-christians-nairaland-afraid-atheists#76292960. There, the same person that you are responding to here showed up to tell me that she had seen my answer on the other thread and would respond to it later. Here's the link to her statement: https://www.nairaland.com/5056797/why-christians-nairaland-afraid-atheists#76302635. She never did. Earlier in the year, the same person made this argument and then never defended it: "1. The bible is a composite of multiple writings that was put together by man. Some of those writings had contradictions in them that where not dealt with during this process. Its one of the reasons I'm confused as to why some christians hold on to it as the supposedly "infallible" word of God. A well known inconsistency among the gospels is that Matthew says Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod, who died in April 4 BCE, whereas Luke says he was born during the census instituted when Quirinius was governor of Syria — in 6 CE, more than ten years after Herod died. Matthew says the infant Jesus was taken from Bethlehem to Egypt and the family went to Nazareth for the very first time after the death of Herod and their return from Egypt (Matthew 2:23); Luke says Nazareth was already the hometown of Joseph and Mary and that they returned there just a few days after the birth of Jesus. Another one is that Mark chapter 14 (followed by Matthew, Luke) says that the Last Supper was the celebration of the Passover feast and that Jesus was crucified the third hour (9 AM) on the day after the Passover feast. John 19:14 says that Jesus was sent to be crucified at the sixth hour (12 noon) on the day before the Passover." - https://www.nairaland.com/post/74738452 When I asked what her sources were for these bogus claims, she said, "I read books and I do my research." Here on this thread and elsewhere, she has said clearly that she starts these arguments because she's bored. The author of this thread too has told me right here on Nairaland that he does this for entertainment. That is to say that they have no intention of seriously considering any answers that they receive. This is all for their entertainment. And they find it particularly entertaining to resort to insults and pronouncements about how great their intellect is because they are atheists. Now, I don't know you or what your particular attitude to the Bible is, but you seem to know a thing or two about biblical truth, and perhaps this is for you a way to exercise your understanding of it and maybe get better at it. Or perhaps you too like to get into these debates when you are bored. I know that both have been true of me at different times, and the former is still partly the reason that I have these conversations. I'm just sharing this with you in case you need to adjust your perception of these debates or your own perspective, as the case may be. As for me, as I said, these conversations serve both as exercise for me and as an opportunity to help believers who may have these questions and no good opportunity to ask them. Cheers. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 7:57am On Nov 30, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Yea I noted this in my earlier contribution as well. Okay. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 8:00am On Nov 30, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3:Everything you have contributed is noted sir. I just have one question regarding the text in bold. Who saw or observed the exact hour Jesus awakened from the sleep state inside the tomb? |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by MuttleyLaff: 8:01am On Nov 30, 2019 |
missjo:OK yeah, the "a Jewish day begins and ends at sundown, as in, the time in the evening when the sun disappears or daylight fades" bit you emboldened is uncontestable. Look at the screenshot carefully now. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 8:03am On Nov 30, 2019 |
LordReed:John in his gospel made the ambiguity of Matthew's gospel clearer sir, that's what I've been trying to tell you. The "High Day" Sabbath is the Sabbath actually being referred to. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by MuttleyLaff: 8:08am On Nov 30, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff: missjo:"1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2Suddenly there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4The guards trembled in fear of him and became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay" - Matthew 28:1-6 The ministering angelic host from heaven, the angel, saw or observed the exact hour Jesus awakened from the sleep state inside the tomb. The angel even told the women Jesus has risen, after 3 days and 3 nights, just as He said He would. No one including the guards could see anything happening inside because of the heavy stone rolled against the tomb entrance |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by LordReed(m): 8:11am On Nov 30, 2019 |
missjo: It does not preclude it from being the weekly Sabbath. Besides there is no description of the events that suggests they rested for 3 intervening days. The bible clearly states they rested on the Sabbath day, singular denotation. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 8:17am On Nov 30, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Lol smart ass, yes of course the heavens witnessed it. No human witnessed it. Or are you implying that on that same hour when the angel descended and rolled away the stone, Jesus was also being awakened inside the tomb? |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by missjo(f): 8:19am On Nov 30, 2019 |
LordReed:Okay |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by Ihedinobi3: 8:28am On Nov 30, 2019 |
missjo:Refer to my first response to you. I did say that we don't have the exact moment of the Lord's Resurrection recorded in the Bible, but the Scriptures call Sunday the Lord's Day. That only makes sense if it was the Day He rose from the dead. As for how the Scriptures say that it was Sunday, it was because the Lord Himself said that He would rise on the third day. There is only one way that "after three days" and "on the third day" can mean the same thing: inclusive counting. The ancient Jews counted days inclusively, as I told you, and even if I have not commented on the way they reckoned the beginning and ending of a day, I have not disagreed with it. However, for the Jew, part of a day - that is, a day defined as evening and morning or "day and night" - counted as a full day - that is, as a full "evening and morning" or "day and night." So, when our Lord died late in the afternoon of Friday, that meant one day and night was spent in death. The next day, the Sabbath, He was still dead. That was a second day and night in death. The third day, was Sunday. Because He was still dead by Sunday morning, it was a third day and night. But He rose on Sunday also, so that He rose, not on the fourth day (after three days, in modern reckoning), but on the third day (after three days and three nights, in ancient Hebrew reckoning). In other words, if our Lord had died on Wednesday and rose from the dead even on Saturday, to the Jews who heard His Prophecy in Matthew 12, the prophecy would not have been fulfilled since it would be counted as spending four days and nights in the Grave, not three. For us today, we would want to know the exact time in hours and minutes of His Death and Resurrection to decide if it was exactly 72 hours. But the Lord was speaking to Jews not to us, and the Bible never said that He would be dead for 72 hours, only that He would be dead for three days and nights, and that He would rise on the third day, both of which fit into ancient Hebrew speech. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by RandomGuy48: 8:29am On Nov 30, 2019 |
LordReed:Ah, I see what you're getting at. I favor the interpretation that, per the Jewish reckoning of time (which would have been the one that mattered to the people who heard the prophecy), a full "literal" 72 hours was not required for three days and three nights and therefore the Friday burial, Sunday resurrection timeline fits the three days and three nights requirement. That said, I don't find the possibility of a burial earlier in the week in order to fit the "full" 72 hours (as some have advocated here) to be particularly objectionable. Someone can take whichever explanation they prefer. |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by MuttleyLaff: 8:34am On Nov 30, 2019 |
missjo:I am glad you are reasonable and see sense, lol missjo:Jesus did what Jesus promised and said He would do. He raised up from the grave after 3 days and 3 nights. You're trying to find and/or know how long a piece of string is. The man, rose after 3 days and 3 days, He delivered on His word and/or promise. Stop being pedantic and trying to split hair ojaare, lol |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by kkins25(m): 8:48am On Nov 30, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff: *coughs* *clears throat* Beep beep, lie detected. Beep beep lie detected Suddenly there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and sat on it. ]The guards trembled in fear of him and became like dead men. . No one including the guards could see anything happening inside because of the heavy stone rolled against the tomb entrancelets go back in time 2Suddenly there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, missjo, warning! warning!! warning!!! Beep beep. MuttleyLaff aka metatron will do anything to board you on the ship of jehova. He apears to be solid ground of optimism until you step on him wil you realise metateon of God is a quick sand whom will drown you in Jehova's dictatorship. Warning! Warning!!! Beep beep.missjojo |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by MuttleyLaff: 8:55am On Nov 30, 2019 |
kkins25:[img]https://s2/images/MuttleyHilarious34d26efd4dfccb03.gif[/img] Lets all hide 'cos here comes trouble 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Was Jesus In The Grave For 3days And 3nights Literally? by TVSA: 9:00am On Nov 30, 2019 |
missjo:so Jesus has left before then? 1 Like |
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