Middleborn:


This piece is very educative. I think it destroyed the trinity. I've stopped attending churches because there are a lot of objections I have about the teachings and doctrines in mainstream Christian churches. The Trinity in an example.

The point was made by Biblespeaks when he laid bare Matthew 24:36, where the father is said of knowing something which the son or the Holy Spirit doesn't know. There wouldnt be scriptural passages like this if there is a triune God. Maybe Ihedinobi3, Shadeyinka or MuttleyLaff could make a comment about this. I would be glad if they tried to.
I think the Christian Church has been fucke'd up since long ago....we're all in the mess.

The spirit is God, he searches the mind of God and is the movement of God, so the spirit knows all things.

Jesus doesn't know all things in his human self , but in his subconscious self which is the Spirit he knows all things

So jesus on earth only knew what the spirit revealed to him.

Jesus at the beginning may have expected that God would make him king of the jews( sent only to the house of Israel), but it became clear to him that God had a bigger mission for him than that. Jesus knew that he would die but later on became fearful of the ordeal he was to go through and asked that the cup be taken away from him if possible( that again was the flesh speaking). When jesus prayed this prayer, the spirit would also have felt the pain of jesus from his human mind, and this was an emotional moment for God. ln the end, God could only send his angel to strengthen jesus, giving him the power over that suffering instead of saving him from the suffering as jesus wished.

Jesus was a man like you and l but was very connected to his other self.

MuttleyLaff:
You're right, and for the record, no one to my knowledge on the thread has proposed that trinity is needed for salvation. The brethren are breaking the bread of Hebrews 1:1-3 together and invite is for any to join if they wish to

l said that because the guy l quoted said it's affecting his christianity.

shadeyinka:

I gave you a literal translation


Please check the attached screenshot to confirm.



I said:


I guess you misunderstood my post.

A teacher has the gift to explain and describe complex and deep spiritual truths (just like Christ does) using parables and physical relations. Please forgive me for "trying to use logics and reasoning" to explain Trinity.

At least we are on the same page. Some people by nature are content with having faith for its sake while some are wired by the same God to want to understand why faith is the key.

Both are OK as long as at the end deep Faith in God is attained.

Unfortunately, my studies in ancient Greek and Hebrew have been stalled for a long time now, so I try to avoid arguments about translations. Translation involves interpretation to some degree. This is because very often meaning is expressed differently from one language to another. For example, how we say "I love you" in Igbo would really stupefy someone who doesn't really know how the Igbo language works and how it is used collectively and individually. For this reason, I can understand why different people translate the same thing in somewhat different ways. And my natural talent in linguistics also helps me appreciate how different appreciations of the same words overlap in some way in meaning. So, I do see the sense in translating the Greek the way that Bible Hub does, but I don't consider it necessarily literal or perfectly accurate.

The other translation I offered comes from a historian and classics scholar, a man well versed in ancient Greek and a Bible teacher, incidentally my own pastor-teacher. I see the sense in his translation and appreciate not only how it both captures the actual Greek and fits with the rest of the Bible. That is why I prefer it. You can see https://ichthys.com/mail-John%201-1.htm for one discussion of this translation, if you want.

As for teaching, I don't quite agree with you. I don't see teaching defined this way in the Bible. The Lord Jesus did use parables, just as you said, but not exactly to "teach." He used it to conceal the Truth from those who didn't want to hear it.

The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "`You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: . . .
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.
So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."
Matthew 13:10-18,34-35 NIV1984

Those who had a heart for the Truth would always go to the Lord to ask for the meaning of His Parables so that they could actually learn the Truth (Matthew 13:36; John 3:1-21, cf. John 7:50-52).

Teaching is explaining, that is, interpreting, not obscuring. The Lord obscured the Truth so that it wouldn't offend those who didn't want to hear it (cf. Matthew 7:6), while at the same time it would provide enough of a hint to draw those who were willing to learn to seek clearer teaching in the matter from Him. Those who have the teaching gift today explain the Scriptures to others "comparing spiritual to spiritual" or "expressing spiritual realities in spiritual words" (1 Corinthians 2:13), not by telling stories (cf. 1 Timothy 4:7).

All mature believers can teach, that is, explain the Truth to others as they themselves have been taught (Hebrews 5:12), but the pastor-teaching gift is given only to very few believers. That gift is for authoritative interpretation of the Scriptures. The pastor-teacher does not merely share with other believers what he has learned is the meaning of different parts of the Bible (as all mature believers are able to do to some degree), he also offers original interpretations of things in the Bible because his gift enables him - after he has, like every other believer should be, trained by another pastor-teacher to understand the Bible, and been tested for spiritual maturity by the Lord - to see connections in the Bible that others cannot see on their own.

So, a trained pastor-teacher (trained in the Scriptures, in the original languages, in ancient history and church history, and in textual criticism) is able to describe the picture that is in the Bible to others, not by "simplifying" Bible truths, but by assembling different "pieces" of biblical truth to form a clear, coherent, immediately obvious picture of what the Bible is actually saying.

So, no, we wouldn't explain the Trinity by deconstructing it or comparing it to things that are clearly not it. Not that we couldn't use such tools to try to demonstrate some aspect of it, but we wouldn't present it as any less complex than it truly is. This is why your explanation is troublesome for me. The Trinity is a far more complex affair than the whole universe put together. That is not surprising since God far transcends the creation that He invented from the ground up. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. What the Lord is is truly too wonderful for us. That does not mean that we have no ability at all to understand it. We can understand it, but with limits imposed by our mortal bodies (1 Corinthians 13:12). Only at the Resurrection can we know everything perfectly.

So, while a pastor-teacher could say that the wave-particle duality in nature does have some similarity to the Trinity (and it is a poor illustration, in my own thinking), in that just as, for example, Light is one thing, yet it has properties of a wave and properties of a particle, the Trinity is one God even though there are Three Persons Who are Each God. The illustration must be understood to be imperfect, since the Three Persons of God are not three ways of understanding God or three aspects of God, nor can they be understood as three categories of properties. They are Three Persons in Their own Right.

I'm not sure what it means to "have faith for its own sake." But if it meant that we are not interested in asking questions and seeking to understand what the Scriptures say, that wasn't what I meant. Faith means trust. Trust is what we give to cover things we do not and cannot know. For example, if you trust your wife not to commit adultery, it isn't because you know that she cannot. It is because you are confident in her love for you. You don't know what she does every time that she is away from you. Nor can you know. So trust is making an assumption on the basis of her character and demonstrated attitude toward you.

In the same way, we trust what the Bible says because we trust the God Who gave it to us as His Testimony. We accept what He says even if we cannot prove it in every detail. We know that at the Resurrection, what we don't understand will become as well known to us as we ourselves are known to the Lord. That is what it means to have Faith.

We who have Faith seek to understand what the Bible has to say, but not to question the Bible as an authority. We accept the Bible's authority, so when it makes truth claims, we accept them as axioms, not as things that must be proven to be true. In other words, if the Bible says something that we cannot prove to be true or false, we accept it as true because it is the Bible that said it. For example, if the Bible tells us that God is a Trinity, we accept how it defines that even if it doesn't fit our experience, we don't try to force what it says to fit our experience. Those who do that eventually dispense with what the Bible says.

That is how the Jehovah's Witnesses came into existence. The same is true of all heresies. Whenever we are not willing to accept the Bible's authority, then we invent things that we insist that it must say. The Bible's way of dealing with such things is in what it says about the same thing in other parts of it. So, when people "explain" an axiom in a way that fits their logical preferences, the result is that they create an idea that conflicts with what the Bible says elsewhere. That is how those who love the Truth can identify false teaching: such teaching twists what the Bible says.

Middleborn:


This piece is very educative. I think it destroyed the trinity. I've stopped attending churches because there are a lot of objections I have about the teachings and doctrines in mainstream Christian churches. The Trinity in an example.

The point was made by Biblespeaks when he laid bare Matthew 24:36, where the father is said of knowing something which the son or the Holy Spirit doesn't know. There wouldnt be scriptural passages like this if there is a triune God. Maybe Ihedinobi3, Shadeyinka or MuttleyLaff could make a comment about this. I would be glad if they tried to.
I think the Christian Church has been fucke'd up since long ago....we're all in the mess.

If you say the argument destroyed the trinity, fine but the same argument created two separate gods
1. God and
2. Sub-God (a god)

Deu 5:7:
"You shall have no other gods besides Me."

If you can understand "wave particle duality of matter", you are closer to understanding Trinity.

Daejoyoung:


Well l know that my definition of the trinity is not the orthodox one( and I don't care about that).
My definition of the trinity is that there is the Father(the only true God) and both the son and spirit comes from the father.

lf you use the analogy of body, soul, and spirit, you get more confused, because the body, soul, and spirit together make up one person and are not seperate persons.

The bible is clear that jesus is the image of God and had the fullness of the Godhead in him bodily, so jesus had a dual nature of full humanity and full spirit, the difference is that his very spirit or subconscious self is Holy Spirit, so that jesus is now both God and man.

So l believe in the incarnation of God's Holyspirit as jesus the christ, but not trinity(as defined by the council of Nicea).

The difference between us and jesus is that the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily in him, but together we are the body of christ. So on our own we have Holy Spirit in us but we are not God like jesus, but when we all come together as one operating through the spirit we become the body of christ( or the body of God on earth).

@Bolded is very correct as
The Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit is ONE God.

Note:
1. In the Beginning, God Created the Heavens and the Earth
2. And God Said, "Let there Be....." "And there was..."
3. Col 1:16:
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

So from 3, the question is who
1. Who created the heavens and the earth?
2. Who said "let there be.. and there was..."?

Don't forget that it is the WORD that became FLESH who as the Flesh is known as the SON or Jesus.

The JWs have created two gods (one big one and a small one).
Any description that creates multiple God is a heresy!

The Bible says "God is a Spirit": we call Him the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit isn't just something that comes from the Father: No!
He is God Himself.
Acts 5:3-4:
"But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? why have you conceived this thing in your heart? you have not lied to men, but to God."

The explanation is simple enough!

Middleborn:


This piece is very educative. I think it destroyed the trinity. I've stopped attending churches because there are a lot of objections I have about the teachings and doctrines in mainstream Christian churches. The Trinity in an example.

The point was made by Biblespeaks when he laid bare Matthew 24:36, where the father is said of knowing something which the son or the Holy Spirit doesn't know. There wouldnt be scriptural passages like this if there is a triune God. Maybe Ihedinobi3, ______ or _____ could make a comment about this. I would be glad if they tried to.
I think the Christian Church has been fucke'd up since long ago....we're all in the mess.

Hello.

Here is Matthew 24:36:

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:36 (KJV)

No mention of the Holy Spirit there. Mark 13:32 does include the Son, but still no mention of the Holy Spirit there.

As for why the Son was included,

[5]Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, [6]who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [7]but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. [8]Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Philippians 2:5-8 NASB

In order to die for our sins, the Lord "emptied Himself" of His Deity in order to become a Man and subject Himself to Death. If He didn't do that, He wouldn't have been able to die, because God cannot die.

That "emptying" is also why the Lord did not use His Omniscience while He was still on Earth during the First Advent. After He resurrected and ascended and was glorified, He certainly "knew" and knows when He will return because His Human Nature and His Deity have been perfectly united now. There is no more separation between them.

*

Daejoyoung:

You don't need trinity for your salvation, what you need is a worldview of the kingdom of God, the cross, and the mysterious resurrection.

Hello.

Anyone who fails to recognize the Lord Jesus to be Who the Scriptures say that He is and the Nature of the Sacrifice that He made for us cannot be saved.

In other words, only the Jesus described by the Bible is the One Who saves us. Not just any Jesus anyone makes up.

The Jesus Who died for us is the Word Who was with the Father and the Holy Spirit before the Universe was created. That is, He is a Member of the Trinity. That is the Jesus in Whom we must believe to be saved.

Then again, the Sacrifice that He made for us is His leaving His Perfect Estate as God to become a Man like us and suffer the Death of the Cross in order for us to be saved. This is what we must believe in order to be saved.

So, if you have trouble believing in the Trinity, you have trouble being saved. Only believing in the Jesus revealed in the Bible and His Sacrifice for us will save you. Nothing else can.

Ihedinobi3:

Unfortunately, my studies in ancient Greek and Hebrew have been stalled for a long time now, so I try to avoid arguments about translations. Translation involves interpretation to some degree. This is because very often meaning is expressed differently from one language to another. For example, how we say "I love you" in Igbo would really stupefy someone who doesn't really know how the Igbo language works and how it is used collectively and individually. For this reason, I can understand why different people translate the same thing in somewhat different ways. And my natural talent in linguistics also helps me appreciate how different appreciations of the same words overlap in some way in meaning. So, I do see the sense in translating the Greek the way that Bible Hub does, but I don't consider it necessarily literal or perfectly accurate.

The other translation I offered comes from a historian and classics scholar, a man well versed in ancient Greek and a Bible teacher, incidentally my own pastor-teacher. I see the sense in his translation and appreciate not only how it both captures the actual Greek and fits with the rest of the Bible. That is why I prefer it. You can see https://ichthys.com/mail-John%201-1.htm for one discussion of this translation, if you want.

Nice to know that you have some scholarship in the ancient languages from which the scriptures was written.

Interpretation of letters is extremely difficult because
1. The writer may write in such a way to imprecisely convey the intent of his heart
2. The reader may put stress and extra meaning to words or phrases the writer has no intention of stressing.
3. A single phrase is subject to two or more valid interpretations.

This is why even though our Constitution is written in English, lawyers still have to argue and debate what the written article mean.

How much more when translation is done for a language with a dialect that is no more spoken by any community.

Ihedinobi3:

As for teaching, I don't quite agree with you. I don't see teaching defined this way in the Bible. The Lord Jesus did use parables, just as you said, but not exactly to "teach." He used it to conceal the Truth from those who didn't want to hear it.

The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "`You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: . . .
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.
So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."
Matthew 13:10-18,34-35 NIV1984

Those who had a heart for the Truth would always go to the Lord to ask for the meaning of His Parables so that they could actually learn the Truth (Matthew 13:36; John 3:1-21, cf. John 7:50-52).

I will say, to those on the outside, the Parables of Jesus actually hid Spiritual nuggets in plain sight.
But to Christ's disciples, he expected them to understand the parables and he did explain many to his disciples.

Mar 4:10-11:
"And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all these things are done in parables :"
The same parables produced two results depending on who was being spoken to.
Jesus actually expected his Disciples to understand the parables
Mar 4:13:
"And he said to them, Know you not this parable? and how then will you know all parables?"

Ihedinobi3:

Teaching is explaining, that is, interpreting, not obscuring. The Lord obscured the Truth so that it wouldn't offend those who didn't want to hear it (cf. Matthew 7:6), while at the same time it would provide enough of a hint to draw those who were willing to learn to seek clearer teaching in the matter from Him. Those who have the teaching gift today explain the Scriptures to others "comparing spiritual to spiritual" or "expressing spiritual realities in spiritual words" (1 Corinthians 2:13), not by telling stories (cf. 1 Timothy 4:7).

All mature believers can teach, that is, explain the Truth to others as they themselves have been taught (Hebrews 5:12), but the pastor-teaching gift is given only to very few believers. That gift is for authoritative interpretation of the Scriptures. The pastor-teacher does not merely share with other believers what he has learned is the meaning of different parts of the Bible (as all mature believers are able to do to some degree), he also offers original interpretations of things in the Bible because his gift enables him - after he has, like every other believer should be, trained by another pastor-teacher to understand the Bible, and been tested for spiritual maturity by the Lord - to see connections in the Bible that others cannot see on their own.

So, a trained pastor-teacher (trained in the Scriptures, in the original languages, in ancient history and church history, and in textual criticism) is able to describe the picture that is in the Bible to others, not by "simplifying" Bible truths, but by assembling different "pieces" of biblical truth to form a clear, coherent, immediately obvious picture of what the Bible is actually saying.

So, no, we wouldn't explain the Trinity by deconstructing it or comparing it to things that are clearly not it. Not that we couldn't use such tools to try to demonstrate some aspect of it, but we wouldn't present it as any less complex than it truly is. This is why your explanation is troublesome for me. The Trinity is a far more complex affair than the whole universe put together. That is not surprising since God far transcends the creation that He invented from the ground up. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. What the Lord is is truly too wonderful for us. That does not mean that we have no ability at all to understand it. We can understand it, but with limits imposed by our mortal bodies (1 Corinthians 13:12). Only at the Resurrection can we know everything perfectly.

So, while a pastor-teacher could say that the wave-particle duality in nature does have some similarity to the Trinity (and it is a poor illustration, in my own thinking), in that just as, for example, Light is one thing, yet it has properties of a wave and properties of a particle, the Trinity is one God even though there are Three Persons Who are Each God. The illustration must be understood to be imperfect, since the Three Persons of God are not three ways of understanding God or three aspects of God, nor can they be understood as three categories of properties. They are Three Persons in Their own Right.

I'm not sure what it means to "have faith for its own sake." But if it meant that we are not interested in asking questions and seeking to understand what the Scriptures say, that wasn't what I meant. Faith means trust. Trust is what we give to cover things we do not and cannot know. For example, if you trust your wife not to commit adultery, it isn't because you know that she cannot. It is because you are confident in her love for you. You don't know what she does every time that she is away from you. Nor can you know. So trust is making an assumption on the basis of her character and demonstrated attitude toward you.

In the same way, we trust what the Bible says because we trust the God Who gave it to us as His Testimony. We accept what He says even if we cannot prove it in every detail. We know that at the Resurrection, what we don't understand will become as well known to us as we ourselves are known to the Lord. That is what it means to have Faith.

We who have Faith seek to understand what the Bible has to say, but not to question the Bible as an authority. We accept the Bible's authority, so when it makes truth claims, we accept them as axioms, not as things that must be proven to be true. In other words, if the Bible says something that we cannot prove to be true or false, we accept it as true because it is the Bible that said it. For example, if the Bible tells us that God is a Trinity, we accept how it defines that even if it doesn't fit our experience, we don't try to force what it says to fit our experience. Those who do that eventually dispense with what the Bible says.

That is how the Jehovah's Witnesses came into existence. The same is true of all heresies. Whenever we are not willing to accept the Bible's authority, then we invent things that we insist that it must say. The Bible's way of dealing with such things is in what it says about the same thing in other parts of it. So, when people "explain" an axiom in a way that fits their logical preferences, the result is that they create an idea that conflicts with what the Bible says elsewhere. That is how those who love the Truth can identify false teaching: such teaching twists what the Bible says.

I think all Christians are different in giftings and abilities. When I first got into the "deliverance ministry", my drive wasn't just to cast out demons BUT to understand how "things work behind the scene". Most people in such "ministries" are content with just getting the job done. That's why I said both positions are OK as long as Faith in God is properly exercised.

There is no parable or analogy that perfectly explain spiritual things, not even the parables of Christ Himself. But as long as a believer is helped to comprehend difficult spiritual implications, it's ok by me.

God is infinitely incomprehensible, we can only grapple with what He has revealed by His Word.

shadeyinka:

If you say the argument destroyed the trinity, fine but the same argument created two separate gods
1. God and
2. Sub-God (a god)

Deu 5:7:
"You shall have no other gods besides Me."

.

divine
/dɪˈvʌɪn/
adjective
1. of or like God or a god.
"heroes with divine powers"
synonyms: godly, godlike,"
** Jesus is a god, a divine being.
*You dubiously twist & label 'a god' ( or divine) as "subGod" in a bid to obscure the truth.

The son of the Lion is a lion.(different from the Father Lion).

The son of tov theon (the God Almighty) is a god (theos) different from tov theon (the God Almighty ). That is the Greek language of John1:1.
Trinity FRAUD deviates from the Greek language of John 1:1.


You done use Deu 5:7 scatter your Trinity FRAUD yakata...
In Deu 5:7, "Me" (Yahweh the Most High God) is how many persons?

In your own language ,"Me" is how many persons?

Janosky:

The son of the Lion is a lion.(different from the Father Lion).

The son of tov theon (the God Almighty) is a god (theos) different from tov theon,that is the Greek language of John1:1.

Wayo man , in Deu 5:7, "Me" is how many person?

And NWT omitted tov in their English translation.

I wonder where you God this!?
The Father is NOT the Word and the Word is NOT the Holy Spirit
BUT
The Father is God
The Word is God
The Holy Spirit is God

And there lies the ONENESS: the Same God but three different Personalities.

Chew this:
1. A particle cannot produce interference with other particles.
2. A wave cannot collide with another wave
3. A Particle is Energy
A wave is Energy

An electron is BOTH a Particle and a Wave. How?
What you cannot comprehend about God, he has put in plain sight for you.

As far as you are concerned, there are two gods.
A major God and a minor God. Here what the Lord God said!
Exo 20:3:
"You shall have no other gods before me."
Deu 5:7:
"You shall have none other gods before me."

shadeyinka:
And NWT omitted tov in their English translation.
I wonder where you God this!? The Father is NOT the Word and the Word is NOT the Holy Spirit BUT The Father is God The Word is God The Holy Spirit is God
And there lies the ONENESS: the Same God but three different Personalities.



As far as you are concerned, there are two gods. A major God and a minor God. Here what the Lord God said! Exo 20:3: "You shall have no other gods before me." Deu 5:7: "You shall have none other gods before me."

Shadeyinka 3 Gods=
The Father is God The Word is God The Holy Spirit is God Exodus 20:3 & Deu 5:7, in your language "Me" is how many persons? If your child ask you that question, you go tell am say na "3 personalities". I no blame you. Na so your sense reach.

Janosky:

Shadeyinka 3 Gods =

The Father is God
The Word is God
The Holy Spirit is God
Exodus 20:3 & Deu 5:7, in your language "Me" is how many persons?
If your child ask you that question, you go tell am say na "3 personalities".
I no blame you.
Na so your sense reach.

Like your father who was a liar from the beginning. Where ever have I pluralized God as "Gods"?

Since like Muslims, God can be fit into 1+1=2 or not 2, you can continue at the limit of your intelligence.

I'm not surprised, "go ask your children..!" shows how elementary your level of education is!

I gave you a mundane question which you've not answered
A wave is different from a particle in every way. How come an electron is BOTH a wave and a particle?

I guess you should go back to elementary school if you can't explain this.

uboma:
The Trinity is not a biblical teaching.

=====

There is only one GOD! Yet, GOD mercifully reveals to mankind more about Himself.

"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." - 1 John 5:7

Let us not concern ourselves with things beyond us, rather (in praying without ceasing and reading the holy Bible) - seek GOD's mercies and grace.

Isaiah 55:6-7
6 - Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 - Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

Janosky:


divine
/dɪˈvʌɪn/
adjective
1. of or like God or a god.
"heroes with divine powers"
synonyms: godly, godlike,"
** Jesus is a god, a divine being.
*You dubiously twist & label 'a god' ( or divine) as "subGod" in a bid to obscure the truth.

The son of the Lion is a lion.(different from the Father Lion).

The son of tov theon (the God Almighty) is a god (theos) different from tov theon (the God Almighty ). That is the Greek language of John1:1.
Trinity FRAUD deviates from the Greek language of John 1:1.


You done use Deu 5:7 scatter your Trinity FRAUD yakata...
In Deu 5:7, "Me" (Yahweh the Most High God) is how many persons?

In your own language ,"Me" is how many persons?

At least two identities that represent me.
1. Me is by Body: you can throw a stone at me!
2. Me is my Soul: you can Verbal and emotionally abuse me!
And I am still one me.

If you can't understand that, your case is beyond redemption.

Please fault this quote:

Gen 1:1-5:
"In the beginning the Word created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. And the Word said, Let there be light: and there was light. And the Word saw the light, that it was good: and the Word divided the light from the darkness. And the Word called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Viz:
Col 1:15-18:
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

and

John 1:1-3:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

shadeyinka:

(*1)
@Bolded is very correct as
The Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit is ONE God.

(*2)
Note:
1. In the Beginning, God Created the Heavens and the Earth
2. And God Said, "Let there Be....." "And there was..."
(*3)
3. Col 1:16:
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

So from 3, the question is who
1. Who created the heavens and the earth?
2. Who said "let there be.. and there was..."?

Don't forget that it is the WORD that became FLESH who as the Flesh is known as the SON or Jesus.

The JWs have created two gods (one big one and a small one).
Any description that creates multiple God is a heresy!

The Bible says "God is a Spirit": we call Him the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit isn't just something that comes from the Father: No!
He is God Himself.
Acts 5:3-4:
"But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? why have you conceived this thing in your heart? you have not lied to men, but to God."

The explanation is simple enough!

(*#1)
John17:3, who is the 'ONLY TRUE God?

According to Yahweh @.Exodus 20:3 & Deu 5:7, how many persons is "Me" ?
Pls, console yourself with your "3 personalities " FRAUD.

(#2)
The "Me" of Exodus 20:3 & Deu 5:7, He (Yahweh) created man in HIS own image ", Genesis 1:27.

NOTHING about 3 personalities.
Don't come & LIE dey misquote Gen1:26.
Genesis 1:27, "He" is many persons?

(#3)
Colossians 1:16, Greek Dia= THROUGH= By means of. To
The same Greek Dia=THROUGH is at John 1:3.
Why shorten it to "by" ?
Crooked plot to twist "by means of" ( Greek Dia.)

#4) Your DUBIOUS claim:
The JWs have created two gods (one big one and a small one).
Any description that creates multiple God is a heresy!
"The Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit NOT ONE God but creates 3 multiple God " .
Shadeyinka denial changes nothing.

++++++.
Acts1:8, "You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you...."(Acts4:33), the holy spirit is that power received by Jesus followers.
OR:

Matt 3:16,17 You mean that at Jesus baptism, your one being God called himself "this is my son" & left heaven in form of a dove to come upon whom?

***Acts1:4. Luke 24:49. John 14:24,26 , according to shadeyinka's LIE, did God send him self to his followers?
Orishirishi division of labour.... Na wa ooooo!!!

Janosky:


(*#1)
John17:3, who is the 'ONLY TRUE God?

According to Yahweh @.Exodus 20:3 & Deu 5:7, how many persons is "Me" ?
Pls, console yourself with your "3 personalities " FRAUD.

(#2)
The "Me" of Exodus 20:3 & Deu 5:7, He (Yahweh) created man in HIS own image ", Genesis 1:27.

NOTHING about 3 personalities.
Don't come & LIE dey misquote Gen1:26.
Genesis 1:27, "He" is many persons?

(#3)
Colossians 1:16, Greek Dia= THROUGH= By means of. To
The same Greek Dia=THROUGH is at John 1:3.
Why shorten it to "by" ?
Crooked plot to twist "by means of" ( Greek Dia.)

#4) Your DUBIOUS claim:
The JWs have created two gods (one big one and a small one).
Any description that creates multiple God is a heresy!
"The Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit NOT ONE God but creates 3 multiple God " .
Shadeyinka denial changes nothing.

You are fond of ignoring question that will haunt you and bury Avery thing under volumes of words.

Look at the post you quoted and compare it to the response you've given. Is there any correlation?

Let me expatiate

Col 1:16:
"For by him were all things created , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him , and for him :"

I understand that your organisation manufactured "all other things" to fit into your doctrine. Unfortunately, the Word was not even creating for the Father but for Himself.

Please go back and answer my questions!

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

Anyone who fails to recognize the Lord Jesus to be Who the Scriptures say that He is and the Nature of the Sacrifice that He made for us cannot be saved.

In other words, only the Jesus described by the Bible is the One Who saves us. Not just any Jesus anyone makes up.

The Jesus Who died for us is the Word Who was with the Father and the Holy Spirit before the Universe was created. That is, He is a Member of the Trinity. That is the Jesus in Whom we must believe to be saved.

Then again, the Sacrifice that He made for us is His leaving His Perfect Estate as God to become a Man like us and suffer the Death of the Cross in order for us to be saved. This is what we must believe in order to be saved.

So, if you have trouble believing in the Trinity, you have trouble being saved. Only believing in the Jesus revealed in the Bible and His Sacrifice for us will save you. Nothing else can.

Tell me about the jesus described in the bible especially from the gospels.
The trinity is not a teaching of the bible, it is a church doctrine based on their understanding of the bible and therefore can be interpreted in different ways.

Jesus did not come to preach trinity but the kingdom of God as a reality on earth.

xproducer:


=====

There is only one GOD! Yet, GOD mercifully reveals to mankind more about Himself.

"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." - 1 John 5:7

Let us not concern ourselves with things beyond us, rather (in praying without ceasing and reading the holy Bible) - seek GOD's mercies and grace.

Isaiah 55:6-7
6 - Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 - Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

1 john 5v7, is not an original text but was added in the 13th century, this is very clear, but l have no trouble with that.
Still even if we take this verse, it doesn't give us the details about a so called trinity, whether they are 3 coequal persons or stuff like that.

shadeyinka:

Nice to know that you have some scholarship in the ancient languages from which the scriptures was written.

Interpretation of letters is extremely difficult because
1. The writer may write in such a way to imprecisely convey the intent of his heart
2. The reader may put stress and extra meaning to words or phrases the writer has no intention of stressing.
3. A single phrase is subject to two or more valid interpretations.

This is why even though our Constitution is written in English, lawyers still have to argue and debate what the written article mean.

How much more when translation is done for a language with a dialect that is no more spoken by any community.

With the Scriptures, things are a bit different.

Everything is perfectly expressed in the Scriptures, even though the human agents used by the Lord to pen them retained their individualities and personalities in their writing.

As a result, there is no true ambiguity in the Scriptures' meanings. The Bible means exactly what it says everywhere. Its meanings are not subject to the reader's interpretation. It is a perfectly closed system that explains itself. This is actually one major thing that sets it apart from other literature. It is unique in its content. There is nothing left to the imagination or open to interpretation.

The difficulty with understanding the Bible is that it was written like a puzzle with its pieces scattered throughout the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10). Some things are immediately obvious, like the Message of Salvation: Who the Lord Jesus is and what He has done for us. But nearly everything else is pieced together only through the use of a pastor-teaching gift and the proper preparation to deploy that gift. Nor can a pastor-teacher even deploy the gift without spiritual growth to maturity (that is, without being taught the whole realm of biblical truth by a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher too, just like every believer must be). Only at spiritual maturity is the gift even clearly discernible and is it possible to deploy it with any success of any note.

The pastor-teacher assembles the pieces of the puzzle in a way that builds a coherent picture that makes sense without violating any part of the Bible. This is one big reason that a pastor-teacher must know the Bible through and through in order to be able to teach, and he must also take the trouble to learn the historical context in which it was written and how it has been treated over time in order to be able to tell where the pitfalls in interpretation are and in order to bring out the full meaning of things written in the Bible.

shadeyinka:
I will say, to those on the outside, the Parables of Jesus actually hid Spiritual nuggets in plain sight.
But to Christ's disciples, he expected them to understand the parables and he did explain many to his disciples.

Mar 4:10-11:
"And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all these things are done in parables :"
The same parables produced two results depending on who was being spoken to.
Jesus actually expected his Disciples to understand the parables
Mar 4:13:
"And he said to them, Know you not this parable? and how then will you know all parables?"

This is just like when a pastor-teacher has to explain the basic truths of the Gospel to a believer. The very fact that you are a believer means that you ought to know how you became a believer, but very often many believers don't know how they came to be saved:

[5]Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
[6]and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
[7]and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
[8]For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[9]For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
2 Peter 1:5-9 NASB

That is, it is impossible to stand still spiritually. Either we are growing spiritually (2 Peter 1:5-8 ) or else we are shuffling sideways, suffering loss in our understanding of the Gospel as we do that (2 Peter 1:9). So, the Lord was disappointed that He had to explain to believers the rudiments of the Gospel. Consider that even the Pharisees understood at least one of His Parables (Matthew 21:45), so some things should be obvious to those who are actually living the experience.

The Parable of the Sower describes the business of life, how we are all here in order to decide what to do with the Lord and His Truth. Some of us believe, some of us don't. Among those who do, some fall away, others amount to practically nothing for the Lord although they are saved in the end, then others do accomplish varying degrees of spiritual success for the Lord. This is part of the most fundamental Truth of the Bible. If one does not understand it, it is only proof of how weak in faith they are. Compare what Paul tells the Jewish Christians of his day
in Hebrews 5:11-6:3.

shadeyinka:
I think all Christians are different in giftings and abilities. When I first got into the "deliverance ministry", my drive wasn't just to cast out demons BUT to understand how "things work behind the scene". Most people in such "ministries" are content with just getting the job done. That's why I said both positions are OK as long as Faith in God is properly exercised.

First, the Scriptures teach that we all have different ministries (1 Corinthians 12). So, your thought is correct in the matter.

Second, I really see no reason in the Bible to believe in any kind of deliverance ministry. That is just to make clear where I stand on that, not to provoke you in any way.

Third, as I said, it is what the Scriptures themselves say that I concern myself with, not quite what experiences we have. It is the wrong attitude to have to seek to question the Bible's authority. That does not lead to Faith.

shadeyinka:
There is no parable or analogy that perfectly explain spiritual things, not even the parables of Christ Himself. But as long as a believer is helped to comprehend difficult spiritual implications, it's ok by me.

God is infinitely incomprehensible, we can only grapple with what He has revealed by His Word.

I disagree with this. The parables of the Lord Jesus were perfect.

As for how the Truth is taught, I stand by what I said before. But I understand that you have a different understanding here.

As for the incomprehensibility of God, He gave us the Bible as a revelation of Jesus Christ in Whom the Father is revealed to us. So, while I agree that we cannot understand everything about God today, I don't quite agree that God is incomprehensible in an absolute sense or that there is any "grappling" necessary with the Bible. The Lord has given us the Holy Spirit and pastor-teachers so that we can learn the Bible clearly and come into "all truth."

shadeyinka:

@Bolded is very correct as
The Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit is ONE God.

Note:
1. In the Beginning, God Created the Heavens and the Earth
2. And God Said, "Let there Be....." "And there was..."
3. Col 1:16:
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

So from 3, the question is who
1. Who created the heavens and the earth?
2. Who said "let there be.. and there was..."?

Don't forget that it is the WORD that became FLESH who as the Flesh is known as the SON or Jesus.

The JWs have created two gods (one big one and a small one).
Any description that creates multiple God is a heresy!

The Bible says "God is a Spirit": we call Him the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit isn't just something that comes from the Father: No!
He is God Himself.
Acts 5:3-4:
"But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? why have you conceived this thing in your heart? you have not lied to men, but to God."

The explanation is simple enough!

The explanation is not simple enough, if you say the trinity is made up of three separate persons but one being of God, then body, soul, and spirit is a flawed analogy, because body,soul,and spirit is still one being and one person, not three separate persons.

Daejoyoung:

Tell me about the jesus described in the bible especially from the gospels.
The trinity is not a teaching of the bible, it is a church doctrine based on their understanding of the bible and therefore can be interpreted in different ways.

Jesus did not come to preach trinity but the kingdom of God as a reality on earth.

Believe me, I really don't care what you believe. If you are seeking to be saved, I'll be more than happy to explain the Gospel to you. In fact, it would be an enormous privilege on my part to do so. If you want to understand what the Bible teaches, I'll be more than happy to explain what I see in the Bible to you. Otherwise, what you believe is really your business, as far as I'm concerned.

My concern was merely to show you how the Trinity is woven into the Gospel. The Jesus in Whom one chooses to believe CAN be the wrong one. If he is, then one is not saved by believing in him. If one believes in the right Jesus Christ, then they are saved. That is pretty straightforward.

So, if you believe that there is no Trinity in the Bible, and the Jesus Christ that you believe in is not part of the Trinity, then you should have nothing to worry about. If you are convinced that the Trinity is not important for salvation, then you also have nothing to worry about regardless what you think of the Lord Jesus in respect to the Trinity.

In other words, if you think I'm wrong, you really shouldn't even be concerned about what I said about it. I personally have no interest in debating it. The way I see it, either it matters to our Salvation Who Jesus really is or it doesn't. If the Trinity is in any way a part of that question, the understanding it correctly is critical to our Salvation.

shadeyinka:

You are fond of ignoring question that will haunt you and bury Avery thing under volumes of words.

Look at the post you quoted and compare it to the response you've given. Is there any correlation?

Let me expatiate

Col 1:16:
"For by him were all things created , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him , and for him :"

I understand that your organisation manufactured "all other things" to fit into your doctrine. Unfortunately, the Word was not even creating for the Father but for Himself.

Please go back and answer my questions!

The previous verses,14 says Jesus is the son,
Verse15, he is the first born of every creature.(KJV)
Let's stick to shadeyinka's claims for Verse 16, did the firstborn of every creature" create his own Father?
Mr shadeyinka, no dull yourself.
"All other things" (for clarity ,the son can not create his own Father.) It fits the context of verse16.
In Colossians 1:16, what is Greek dia ?
Greek dia = THROUGH, therefore "Through him " (the son)./by means of him. NWT is correct.
JWs consistently stick with Greek language lexicon of each word in every verse
. If you quarrel with the Greek/Hebrew lexicon,then you have no love for the truth of God's word.

Daejoyoung:

The explanation is not simple enough, if you say the trinity is made up of three separate persons but one being of God, then body, soul, and spirit is a flawed analogy, because body,soul,and spirit is still one being and one person, not three separate persons.

Thanks for the exposure of their sophistry masking the Trinity FRAUD.
God bless you

Ihedinobi3:

Believe me, I really don't care what you believe. If you are seeking to be saved, I'll be more than happy to explain the Gospel to you. In fact, it would be an enormous privilege on my part to do so. If you want to understand what the Bible teaches, I'll be more than happy to explain what I see in the Bible to you. Otherwise, what you believe is really your business, as far as I'm concerned.

My concern was merely to show you how the Trinity is woven into the Gospel. The Jesus in Whom one chooses to believe CAN be the wrong one. If he is, then one is not saved by believing in him. If one believes in the right Jesus Christ, then they are saved. That is pretty straightforward.

So, if you believe that there is no Trinity in the Bible, and the Jesus Christ that you believe in is not part of the Trinity, then you should have nothing to worry about. If you are convinced that the Trinity is not important for salvation, then you also have nothing to worry about regardless what you think of the Lord Jesus in respect to the Trinity.

In other words, if you think I'm wrong, you really shouldn't even be concerned about what I said about it. I personally have no interest in debating it. The way I see it, either it matters to our Salvation Who Jesus really is or it doesn't. If the Trinity is in any way a part of that question, the understanding it correctly is critical to our Salvation.

Yes l am willing to be saved, so explain the gospel to me.
l am not saying you are wrong or that the trinity is false, l am saying there is no proof to show that there should be only one interpretation of the trinity and that this interpretation is necessary for eternal life, because trinity itself as a doctrine (unlike say the divinity of jesus for instance) is an interpretation of the church and has no clear verse in the bible stating it, unless you can prove otherwise.
My arguement therefore is that if that is the case, then what proof do you have from the scripture that someone's salvation is tied to the orthodox interpretation of trinity?
By orthodox interpretation, l mean three coequal seperate persons in one being.
Where is this particular definition of trinity in bible? how is it important? and how does it give you salvation?
Explain to me your understanding of jesus, first from the gospels, and then the epistles.
l am just asking questions to learn.

[/b]

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

Here is Matthew 24:36:

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:36 (KJV)

No mention of the Holy Spirit there. Mark 13:32 does include the Son, but still no mention of the Holy Spirit there.

As for why the Son was included,

[5]Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, [6]who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [7]but [b]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. [8]Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Philippians 2:5-8 NASB

In order to die for our sins, the Lord "emptied Himself" of His Deity in order to become a Man and subject Himself to Death. If He didn't do that, He wouldn't have been able to die, because God cannot die.

That "emptying" is also why the Lord did not use His Omniscience while He was still on Earth during the First Advent. After He resurrected and ascended and was glorified, He certainly "knew" and knows when He will return because His Human Nature and His Deity have been perfectly united now. There is no more separation between them.

]

Rev 3:5,12 & John 20:17 is your Deity in heaven NOW subject to his own God& Father as he was on earth?

shadeyinka:

At least two identities that represent me.
1. Me is by Body: you can throw a stone at me!
2. Me is my Soul: you can Verbal and emotionally abuse me!
And I am still one me.

If you can't understand that, your case is beyond redemption.

Please fault this quote:

Gen 1:1-5:
"In the beginning the Word created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. And the Word said, Let there be light: and there was light. And the Word saw the light, that it was good: and the Word divided the light from the darkness. And the Word called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Viz:
Col 1:15-18:
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

and

John 1:1-3:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Genesis 2:7, says your philosophy is NOT true.
Pagan philosophy masquerading as christianity.
Abeg, park well jare.
*
Roman 8:3, who did God Yahweh send to earth in the likeness of men? His son in heaven.
Your superimposition of "the Word" into Genesis Na wayo .. . The Word was facing towards the God. Jesus is NEVER ton theon ANYWHERE in the New Testament SCRIPTURES.
*
Is the God of Genesis 1:1-31 , He or triune ?
*
John 1:1-3. & Colossians 1:13-18 What's the lexicon of Greek "Dia" ?
*
We can't leave out Colossians 1:13-18,that's where your quote should start from.
If your claims were true, Colossians 1:13-18 can a son create his own Father?

*
Colossians 1:19, who made all the events of verses13-18 possible ?

How come that after his ascension ,God's son is still in the image of God,just like man?
2 Cor4:4. Genesis 1:27

The answers you seek are in your unbiased treatment of my questions.

Daejoyoung:

The explanation is not simple enough, if you say the trinity is made up of three separate persons but one being of God, then body, soul, and spirit is a flawed analogy, because body,soul,and spirit is still one being and one person, not three separate persons.

It is very simple
1. Your Body is YOU
It is your Physical Identity.
With your body, you interact with the Physical world.
Your body is sensitive to physical stimulus and has power to change physical state.
Your body is visible in the physical realm because it reflects light to other physical beings.

Your Spirit is not your Body
2. Your Spirit is YOU
It is your Spiritual Identity.
With your spirit, you interact with the Spirit world.
Your spirit is visible in the spirit realm but invisible in the physical realm.
By your spirit you are recognised and identified in the spirit realm.

Your body is NOT your Spirit.
3. Your Soul is YOU.
It is your personal/self identity (this is how you recognise yourself).
Your soul is visible in the spirit realm but invisible in the Physical realm.
Your soul interfaces to both your Body and your Spirit.

The Body, Soul and Spirit are three different Identities that make up YOU.

Death is simply a Disconnection between the Body and the union of the Soul and Spirit.
Even at death, you are completely represented by your soul and spirit.

Same way, the Father is God
The Word is God
The Holy Spirit is God
Even though,
The Father has His Identity
The Word has His Identity
The Holy Spirit has His Identity

shadeyinka:

It is very simple
1. Your Body is YOU
It is your Physical Identity.
With your body, you interact with the Physical world.
Your body is sensitive to physical stimulus and has power to change physical state.
Your body is visible in the physical realm because it reflects light to other physical beings.

Your Spirit is not your Body
2. Your Spirit is YOU
It is your Spiritual Identity.
With your spirit, you interact with the Spirit world.
Your spirit is visible in the spirit realm but invisible in the physical realm.
By your spirit you are recognised and identified in the spirit realm.

Your body is NOT your Spirit.
3. Your Soul is YOU.
It is your personal/self identity (this is how you recognise yourself).
Your soul is visible in the spirit realm but invisible in the Physical realm.
Your soul interfaces to both your Body and your Spirit.

The Body, Soul and Spirit are three different Identities that make up YOU.

Death is simply a Disconnection between the Body and the union of the Soul and Spirit.
Even at death, you are completely represented by your soul and spirit.

Same way, the Father is God
The Word is God
The Holy Spirit is God
Even though,
The Father has His Identity
The Word has His Identity
The Holy Spirit has His Identity

ok quick question, when the son was on earth, was he God? lf yes, didn't he have a body, soul, and spirit? so by your analogy did it ultimately become 5 persons in one God?

Janosky:

The previous verses,14 says Jesus is the son,
Verse15, he is the first born of every creature.(KJV)
Let's stick to shadeyinka's claims for Verse 16, did the firstborn of every creature" create his own Father?
Mr shadeyinka, no dull yourself.
"All other things" (for clarity ,the son can not create his own Father.) It fits the context of verse16.
In Colossians 1:16, what is Greek dia ?
Greek dia = THROUGH, therefore "Through him " (the son)./by means of him. NWT is correct.
JWs consistently stick with Greek language lexicon of each word in every verse
. If you quarrel with the Greek/Hebrew lexicon,then you have no love for the truth of God's word.

You seem to forget that
The WORD became the Son.

Is God the Father of the Word?
A scripture to elucidate would be appreciated.

shadeyinka:

You seem to forget that
The WORD became the Son.

Is God the Father of the Word?
A scripture to elucidate would be appreciated.

ls the Word not the word of God? Did the word just happen to appear on its' own?

Janosky:


Genesis 2:7, says your philosophy is NOT true.
Pagan philosophy masquerading as christianity.
Abeg, park well jare.
*
Roman 8:3, who did God Yahweh send to earth in the likeness of men? His son in heaven.
Your superimposition of "the Word" into Genesis Na wayo .. . The Word was facing towards the God. Jesus is NEVER ton theon ANYWHERE in the New Testament SCRIPTURES.
*
Is the God of Genesis 1:1-31 , He or triune ?
*
John 1:1-3. & Colossians 1:13-18 What's the lexicon of Greek "Dia" ?
*
We can't leave out Colossians 1:13-18,that's where your quote should start from.
If your claims were true, Colossians 1:13-18 can a son create his own Father?

*
Colossians 1:19, who made all the events of verses13-18 possible ?

How come that after his ascension ,God's son is still in the image of God,just like man?
2 Cor4:4. Genesis 1:27

The answers you seek are in your unbiased treatment of my questions.

Mr man
Your propensity for deception is only exceeded by your dubiousness.

According to your doctrine:
God created Jesus
And Jesus created ALL OTHER things.

If Jesus created all other things,
1. Who created the heavens and the earth?
2. Who spoke the words, "Let there be..."?

Have you disowned the teachings of your organisation?
I know that you don't mind twisting even your doctrines in other to make your points