Odunayaw:
I'd rather it is on wheels. COIN warfare - Something I think Africa will face for the next decade, is very unforgiving for tracks

You need to understand not all of Nigeria is dry and plain. Wheeled vehicles will suffer in the Niger-Delta, some parts of the Southwest and Southeast.

kabe1:

You need to understand not all of Nigeria is dry and plain. Wheeled vehicles will suffer in the Niger-Delta, some parts of the Southwest and Southeast.

We've had this debate some 3yrs ago. Tracks have its advantages over Wheels and vice versa.

My point is, looking at our Security challenges (Present and Future), I don't see where Tracks come in first. Is it in the creeks & Jungles down South you'd drive your tracks?

Any issue we'd likely face in the South would be an Infantryman's problem I.e LICW

Odunayaw:
We've had this debate some 3yrs ago. Tracks have its advantages over Wheels and vice versa.

My point is, looking at our Security challenges (Present and Future), I don't see where Tracks come in first. Is it in the creeks & Jungles down South you'd drive your tracks?

Any issue we'd likely face in the South would be an Infantryman's problem I.e LICW

We face a threat from Cameroun, we fought a war with them and occupied bakassi for many years. When fighting along the southern border with Cameroun, tracked vehicles are indispensable.

It is easier and faster to drive a tracked vehicle over mud, than a wheeled on.

kabe1:


This is from the Nigerian navy.

This is why i believe clarity is required over the actual ownership of the Special Mission Vessels.

The ship flies the flag of the Marshal Islands and is commercially operated. Or do you the think the NN would register a vessel overseas?

SuperSixSeven:


The ship flies the flag of the Marshal Islands and is commercially operated. Or do you the think the NN would register a vessel overseas?

I don't dispute that. What I'm trying to figure out is the basis for the vessel agreement entered into by the ministry of transport.

kabe1:

We face a threat from Cameroun, we fought a war with them and occupied bakassi for many years. When fighting along the southern border with Cameroun, tracked vehicles are indispensable.

It is easier and faster to drive a tracked vehicle over mud, than a wheeled on.

Not disputing what you said. But the Bakassi conflict was an Infantryman's war. Hope you get my drift?

Odunayaw:
Not disputing what you said. But the Bakassi conflict was an Infantryman's war. Hope you get my drift?

Isn't all wars infantry war's? It's the man doing the fighting, my pivot is getting that infantry man the right fire support in the quickest possible time in a swampy/wet terrain.

I think a tracked vehicle is much better.

I don't see how a wheeled vehicle can defeat this sort of terrain.

kabe1:

Isn't all wars infantry war's? It's the man doing the fighting, my pivot is getting that infantry man the right fire support in the quickest possible time in a swampy/wet terrain.

I think a tracked vehicle is much better.

You don't get what an Infantryman's war is don't you? The war in bakassi were mostly on foot. Ambushes and Skirmishes. The support they had came from Mortars as there was poor linear sight for any gun system (The guns on even the Sagaie ) to be used

I am not arguing about the suitability of wheels to marshy lands. Not at all.

Odunayaw:
You don't get what an Infantryman's war is don't you? The war in bakassi were mostly on foot. Ambushes and Skirmishes

I am not arguing about the suitability of wheels to marshy lands. Not at all.

Let's agree to disagree.

kabe1:

Let's agree to disagree.

there's no disagreement anywhere. Probably you could read about the Bakassi conflict to see what I'm saying.

F16 block 52+ morocco

2nd pic : with Sniper ATX Pod and HARM

El Moundjid Class , heavy tug rescue boat . algerian navy


3200 tons , 86 m

kabe1:

Isn't all wars infantry war's? It's the man doing the fighting, my pivot is getting that infantry man the right fire support in the quickest possible time in a swampy/wet terrain.

I think a tracked vehicle is much better.

I don't see how a wheeled vehicle can defeat this sort of terrain.

You argue too much and almost blind only discover later that you were wrong..
He is saying the N.E been our present and most likely future challenge is better suited for wheeled and not track .. while u keep going out of context bringing in the south where of course tracked would be better suited.

Algerian2:
El Moundjid Class , heavy tug rescue boat . algerian navy


3200 tons , 86 m

Awesome Algerian content as always

GeneralFarouq:

[s]You argue too much and almost blind only discover later that you were wrong..
He is saying the N.E been our present and most likely future challenge is better suited for wheeled and not track .. while u keep going out of context bringing in the south where of course tracked would be better suited[/s].

Read from the beginning, then come back and make a sensible comment.

Most of you hear just talk stupidly without reading.

kabe1:

Isn't all wars infantry war's? It's the man doing the fighting, my pivot is getting that infantry man the right fire support in the quickest possible time in a swampy/wet terrain.

I think a tracked vehicle is much better.

I don't see how a wheeled vehicle can defeat this sort of terrain.

you know alot about military gadgets....

Algerian2:
F16 block 52+ morocco

2nd pic : with Sniper ATX Pod and HARM

I wonder how we managed to pass these guys to get to 4Th position in Africa military ranking And 45th position in world ranking.I mean these guys have operational stigma Frigates,F16 block 52For that matters.Unless we get more than 10 jf17 block 2/3 mix we still dey learn.But I'm sure when it comes to talent NAF pilots are NO1 .

People have no idea about mobility and terrain

Even tracked vehicles can be bogged down in swampy areas.

During 1971 war , fields were flooded by opening canal gates , enemy tanks and all tracked vehicles sank into the ground completely immobilised.

The important parameter is ground pressure per Inch exerted by either tracks or wheels , if it exceeds the threshold point of the terrain surface be it swamp , sand or any terrain , both tracked and wheeled vehicles will get immobilised.

That is why armoured brigades have enginner brigade attached to them during war

Then move forward and analyse terrain and depending on their decision after tests, the armour moves in. ( Sometimes tests are not necessary on a given area if data is available already via satellite analysis or espionage and the terrain has not been subjected to modification via deliberate flooding etc )

and kindly dont bother to argue with me and waste ur time. Google is ur friend .

kabe1:

To replace the ERC-90 Sagie in the tank fire support role. We get a bigger gun and better armour.

the ERC-90 is first and foremost a recon vehicle!!

jln115:
the ERC-90 is first and foremost a recon vehicle!!

It's used as a tank fire support in the Nigerian army. Each country defines how they use their vehicles.

ERC-90 and Scorpion light tanks are used as Tank Fire Support/Infantry Support Vehicles. The Nigerian army can replace them with the FNSS Kaplan.

nemesis8u:
People have no idea about mobility and terrain

Even tracked vehicles can be bogged down in swampy areas.

During 1971 war , fields were flooded by opening canal gates , enemy tanks and all tracked vehicles sank into the ground completely immobilised.

The important parameter is ground pressure per Inch exerted by either tracks or wheels , if it exceeds the threshold point of the terrain surface be it swamp , sand or any terrain , both tracked and wheeled vehicles will get immobilised.

That is why armoured brigades have enginner brigade attached to them during war

Then move forward and analyse terrain and depending on their decision after tests, the armour moves in. ( Sometimes tests are not necessary on a given area if data is available already via satellite analysis or espionage and the terrain has not been subjected to modification via deliberate flooding etc )

and kindly dont bother to argue with me and waste ur time. Google is ur friend .

true....it happened with nazis in russia....

kabe1:

It's used as a tank fire support in the Nigerian army. Each country defines how they use their vehicles.

well if that's the case(which I highly doubt) then I seriously question the doctrine used by the Nigerian military!

at the end na humans operatin this maschines that will determin the outcome of a conflict....

thats why people like rommel were good at what they do....

kabe1:

It's used as a tank fire support in the Nigerian army. Each country defines how they use their vehicles.

ERC-90 and Scorpion light tanks are used as Tank Fire Support/Infantry Support Vehicles. The Nigerian army can replace them with the FNSS Kaplan.

Erc90s are recon vehicles, they are not armoured enough for fire support, even though they do occasionally fil that role!

jln115:
well if that's the case(which I highly doubt) then I seriously question the doctrine used by the Nigerian military!

You're entitled to your own opinion.

jln115:

Erc90s are recon vehicles, they are not armoured enough for fire support, even though they do occasionally fil that role!

Well, in Nigeria and France they are used in assault roles. We've seen that in Mali and in Nigeria.

kabe1:

Well, in Nigeria and France they are used in assault roles. We've seen that in Mali and in Nigeria.

They are not

kabe1:

You're entitled to your own opinion.

what iam actually saying is you don't know the doctrine of the Nigerian Army if you think your ERC90s are primarily used for fire support!

Apart from survivability,reliability,maintenance,ease of operation and price is the forex factor,never to be overlooked for the developing countries featured on this thread. The story of the KAF Hawks illustrates this lesson. In the early 90s there were 8 Hawks in the KAF. At the time the exchange rate was 30-35 to the GBP. This was a terrible time for Kenya-the push for multipartyism was at fever pitch with weekly riots in all major towns,there was a foreign loan embargo,ethnic clashes were displacing thousands in the Rift Valley bread basket and inflation began to climb accordingly.
Post 92 election food prices rose nearly 50%. I rmbr a loaf of bread rose to 20 shs from 5 within 2 months!? For the first time ever there were gas shortages and cars would queue up outside stations on the strength of a rumour. The shilling fell to 50,60,80 100 to a 150 to the GBP before falling to 120 in '94. The KAF brass struggled heroically to continue the training/ops/maintenance cycle for all the platforms-to their everlasting credit the flyguys maintained their flight hours of some 120 hrs yearly. Finally they bowed to the inevitable around '97/'98 and placed the Hawks in storage. Fyi,today it costs 2.5 mn$ annually to fly the Hawk 200 so you can imagine the cumulative running costs for 8.

http://nationsdawnofanera.weebly.com/-light-attack--training-aircraft.html

So,guys lets all remember the forex rate! You can hedge,yes but not indefinitely. They're still in storage not rotting in the sun like the Naij Jag tragicomedy. Postscript: around 2002 the ZAF offered the KAF brass diamonds from Marange in exchange for Hawk spares as they were under an arms embargo-fyi,Marange was then under direct Zim armed forces control,Idk about now.

I'm therefore eagerly awaiting the productionisation of the Indian Sitara ,the Intermediate Jet Trainer. While everyone is wanking over Sues,subs and Apaches the solution to our woefully under equipped air forces may come from India.

On this day 21st December 1988, the world biggest transport aircraft Antonov #An225 Mriya, performed its maiden flight.

Toju200:
I wonder how we managed to pass these guys to get to 4Th position in Africa military ranking And 45th position in world ranking.I mean these guys have operational stigma Frigates,F16 block 52For that matters.Unless we get more than 10 jf17 block 2/3 mix we still dey learn.But I'm sure when it comes to talent NAF pilots are NO1 .

Bro do you remember the name of that upcoming military movie that they borrowed some military vehicles for

Toju200:
I wonder how we managed to pass these guys to get to 4Th position in Africa military ranking And 45th position in world ranking.I mean these guys have operational stigma Frigates,F16 block 52For that matters.Unless we get more than 10 jf17 block 2/3 mix we still dey learn.But I'm sure when it comes to talent NAF pilots are NO1 .

Even if this global fire ranking use demographic , geographic, economic stats for country ranking . for me this is a big mystery for why morocco is not 3rd in africa ranking . they have better equipments in number and quality in all sectors than south africcan , nigerian , angola , ethiopia and by far .

For airforce they have :
23 f16 block 52 15 F-16C / 8 F-16D ( that are upgraded to Block 70/72 . and they will receive 25 more last block 70/72. thats 48 F16 Viper ! and as US ally they got same technology and weapons than US on them .
27 Mirage F1/ MF2000 (upgraded)
28 Northrop F-5A/B/E/F ( upgraded to tiger III version)
24 Alphajet

Transport : 16 C130 / 4 Alenia C-27J Spartan / 7 CASA CN-235
They signed for 36 AH-64E Appach . they have 24 gazelle , 24 puma , 12 chinook , a hudge number of bell 205 .206. 202

Wich africcan air force (a part egypt ,algeria ) have better ?


For navy : they have . 1 FREMM , 3 sigma , 2 floreal . thats 6 frigates very well equiped

One Descubierta corvet and more than 20 different OPV and many other small patroller

For army : for tanks only the have :

384 M1A1 SA Abrams
148 T-72 B/V
453 M60-A3TTS upgraded to A3 version
54 MBT-2000 VT A1

Plus others artillery transport light armored vehicle ect...

For air defense they have

16 systems of the MIM-104 Patriot PAC 3 systems

32 systems of the chinese HQ9 long range defense system

48 MIM-72 Chaparral

+ the only true military spy satellite in africa with there Pléiades satelite


So realy i dont understand why moroccan army is not 3rd in africa