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Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture - Foreign Affairs (5) - Nairaland

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Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by linearity: 3:53pm On Dec 21, 2019
ColonelEmeka:
*Sips wine and smiles*

Our human rights noise makers who call USA and UK should come and read and see what happens in "saner climes" cheesy

Come and see what their version of DSS are authorized to do and then call them to come and set your own house in order when their own house is in shambles

*sips more wine*

Click the link and re-read against.

Go beyond the headline which is sensational and a clickbait.

The ruling states, this is for agents in covert operations, that if agent from MI5 is embedded as an infiltrator inside a gang, this ruling states they can act along and carry out the criminal activities of the gang, so that their cover cannot be blown.

To expect otherwise is ludicrous and puts the undercover agents lives in harms way. And this is the practice worldwide and not in anyway a license to kill or to usurp the rights of brits to due process.

2 Likes

Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by CasNova(m): 3:55pm On Dec 21, 2019
Not surprised. That is what 007 does in movies.

1 Like

Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by dalass(f): 3:57pm On Dec 21, 2019
Vortex369:


He will get what he is supporting, I am sure of that.

Agenda 21, is already being implemented in steps and he is not aware of what he is supporting.


Hmmmm

What is Agenda 21?
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 4:07pm On Dec 21, 2019
linearity:


Click the link and re-read against.

Go beyond the headline which is sensational and a clickbait.

The ruling states, this is for agents in covert operations, that if agent from MI5 is embedded as an infiltrator inside a gang, this ruling states they can act along and carry out the criminal activities of the gang, so that their cover cannot be blown.

To expect otherwise is ludicrous and puts the undercover agents lives in harms way. And this is the practice worldwide and not in anyway a license to kill or to usurp the rights of brits to due process.

If i did not read the link as the OP why did i post exerts of the link as second and 3rd comment? cheesy

The interpretation simply says they are authorized to murder, kidnap or Torture as long as it is in line with National security as the protection of the nation is paramount thus they are to achieve this protection of the nation by any means necessary.

It says nothing about them only acting that way when they infiltrate any gang and it can be done even when they do not infiltrate any gang. Are you now adding salt and pepper to the article? cheesy cheesy

*Sips wine and orders a fresh bottle*

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 4:09pm On Dec 21, 2019
imam07:
can your spoken English put u ahead of patience Jonathan?

Oh so she is you mentor.. grin

No wonder

*sips Dom Perignon*
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by NaMeAboki: 4:12pm On Dec 21, 2019
When it comes to national security, human rights take 2nd place; countries (like USA & UK etc) that traditionally tout such rights merely pay lip service to it but secretly deal with any threats as ruthlessly as they wish.
Guantanamo prisoners were Al-Qaeda fighters picked up (literally kidnapped) fighting in their own countries (not even on American soil) subsequently labelled as Enemy Combatants, then shipped to prison in Guantanamo Bay, where they had remained for years and never for once been charged for any offence let alone had a day in court to defend themselves; simply because the US govt feels they pose a threat to its national security - Sowere and Kanu were even luckier in Nigeria to have been charged and even granted bail compared to those prisoners.

3 Likes

Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by linearity: 4:38pm On Dec 21, 2019
ColonelEmeka:


If i did not read the link as the OP why did i post exerts of the link as second and 3rd comment? cheesy

The interpretation simply says they are authorized to murder, kidnap or Torture as long as it is in line with National security as the protection of the nation is paramount thus they are to achieve this protection of the nation by any means necessary.

It says nothing about them only acting that way when they infiltrate any gang and it can be done even when they do not infiltrate any gang. Are you now adding salt and pepper to the article? cheesy cheesy

*Sips wine and orders a fresh bottle*

I did not say, you did not read it, I said to re-read it, which means I conceded that you read it.

You are giving it your own opinion and interpretation, stay within the context of the case and the order...This is from your own post, read the bolden..

"...Judges on the Investigatory Powers Tribunal declared in a majority decision that MI5 has the power to permit informants to operate in criminal groups, even if the policy itself confers no legal immunity. The case focused on powers that were only disclosed last year by then-Prime Minister Theresa May..."

There is clearly stated it is for informants operating within criminal groups....criminal groups are called gangs and if informants are operating inside criminal groups, they are called infiltrators, as-in they infiltrate the criminal group.

MI5 also agreed, it is only for covert operations...and I quote:

"...A Home Office spokesman said: 'The use of covert agents is an essential tool for MI5 as it carries out its job of keeping the country safe.

'We are pleased that the Tribunal found in the Government's favour on all counts and recognised that participating in crime can be a necessary feature of this vital work
."

Lord Justice Singh, one of the three Judges who rule in favor of MI5 states and I quote...

"Lord Justice Singh said that preventing MI5 from embedding an informant in a proscribed terrorist organisation because they would be committing a criminal offence 'would strike at the core activities of the Security Service'.

The judge said it was 'essential to run an agent in a proscribed organisation ... for the gathering of intelligence, but also for disrupting the activities of such organisations'.
"

As you can see, it is only authorized for confidential Informant Agents embedded within criminal gangs....There is no where it say, it can be used outside a criminal gang, that is your own opinion which is clearly wrong, MI5 did not even argue that.
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 4:42pm On Dec 21, 2019
NaMeAboki:
When it comes to national security, human rights take 2nd place; countries (like USA & UK etc) that traditionally tout such rights merely pay lip service to it but secretly deal with any threats as ruthlessly as they wish.
Guantanamo prisoners were Al-Qaeda fighters picked up (literally kidnapped) fighting in their own countries (not even on American soil) subsequently labelled as Enemy Combatants, then shipped to prison in Guantanamo Bay, where they had remained for years and never for once been charged for any offence let alone had a day in court to defend themselves; simply because the US govt feels they pose a threat to its national security - Sowere and Kanu were even luckier in Nigeria to have been charged and even granted bail compared to those prisoners.

As in. They would have been saying hello from the other side

*sips Sapele water*
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 4:44pm On Dec 21, 2019
bizzibodi:

U are sensible col.emeka

Nwanne chop knuckle. What do you want to drink? Beer or spirit

*Gulps glass of beer*
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 4:45pm On Dec 21, 2019
Vortex369:


He will get what he is supporting, I am sure of that.

Agenda 21, is already being implemented in steps and he is not aware of what he is supporting.

You mean Agenda 51 and Agenda 82 right? grin grin

*Drinks cool aid*
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 4:48pm On Dec 21, 2019
AkeNathan:


Cc;Aufbauh


You are not wise at all.

The U.K are a very developed Democracy.

Their democracy thrives to the point where recent Governments have never been accused of abuse of power.

In contrast with a country like Nigeria, ridden with a history of presidents who have excessively abused their powers.

It is too early to call for us as a Nation.

Stop clamouring for the introduction into our society, what saner climes introduced into theirs due to their record of transparency. We are not yet ripe for that. And it may take us 200 more years to be.

"Saner climes" who after such number of years and after being touted as very developed democracies actually authorize their security agency to MURDER, KIDNAP and TORTURE.

Maybe to you Murder is self defence or Kidnap is house arrest. cheesy

*Sips your brain*
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by zomoears(m): 4:48pm On Dec 21, 2019
ColonelEmeka:
*Sips wine and smiles*

Our human rights noise makers who call USA and UK should come and read and see what happens in "saner climes" cheesy

Come and see what their version of DSS are authorized to do and then call them to come and set your own house in order when their own house is in shambles

*sips more wine*

You are trying to be smart by half. Nice try.


"Judges on the Investigatory Powers Tribunal declared in a majority decision that MI5 has the power to permit INFORMANTS to operate in criminal groups, even if the policy itself confers NO LEGAL IMMUNITY. The case focused on powers that were only disclosed last year by then-Prime Minister Theresa May."
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 4:49pm On Dec 21, 2019
zomoears:


You are trying to be smart by half. Nice try.


"Judges on the Investigatory Powers Tribunal declared in a majority decision that MI5 has the power to permit INFORMANTS to operate in criminal groups, even if the policy itself confers NO LEGAL IMMUNITY. The case focused on powers that were only disclosed last year by then-Prime Minister Theresa May."

You are not smart by half

Britain’s domestic intelligence service MI5 can authorize its agents to engage in criminal activities, potentially including murder, kidnap and torture, a London court ruled

*Drinks Gin*
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by Olominira(m): 4:57pm On Dec 21, 2019
ColonelEmeka:
*Sips wine and smiles*

Our human rights noise makers who call USA and UK should come and read and see what happens in "saner climes" cheesy

Come and see what their version of DSS are authorized to do and then call them to come and set your own house in order when their own house is in shambles

*sips more wine*

I can see that you are trying so hard to convince them. That's the sad reality of our Africa. They've been destroyed physically and mentally by the western propaganda. A Human Right group even opposed the judgement but they're still saying you can't read and understand.

Maybe you should try and change Britain to Nigeria, M15 to DSS in another similar article and see how they would be calling on UN, FIFA, US, UK and the international organizations. The worst issue is that, you'd never see Amnesty International saying a word about it
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by zomoears(m): 5:03pm On Dec 21, 2019
ColonelEmeka:


You are not smart by half



*Drinks Gin*



Running a covert operation within gangs and outlawed organisations is permitted, so long as they serve the purpose of gathering information for national security. While operatives who are members of these gangs on covert operations are permitted to carry out the activities of the gang so long as it serves national security. We have never argued with this modus operandi.

However your interpretation that this judgement is a blanket endorsement of kidnap, murder etc, is pure mischief. Read again.

Or maybe, the issue is comprehension skills. Someone is lacking it!
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by Maduawuchukwu(m): 5:14pm On Dec 21, 2019
NaMeAboki:
When it comes to national security, human rights take 2nd place; countries (like USA & UK etc) that traditionally tout such rights merely pay lip service to it but secretly deal with any threats as ruthlessly as they wish.
Guantanamo prisoners were Al-Qaeda fighters picked up (literally kidnapped) fighting in their own countries (not even on American soil) subsequently labelled as Enemy Combatants, then shipped to prison in Guantanamo Bay, where they had remained for years and never for once been charged for any offence let alone had a day in court to defend themselves; simply because the US govt feels they pose a threat to its national security - Sowere and Kanu were even luckier in Nigeria to have been charged and even granted bail compared to those prisoners.


The ruling relates to agents who are embeded in criminal groups otherwise called agent privocateurs. It gives them the right to participate in the activities of the criminal groups they are embedded in so as to not blow their cover. It is not the same with Sowores case. You are not smart.
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by BrainnewsRadio(f): 5:28pm On Dec 21, 2019
AkeNathan:


Cc;Aufbauh


You are not wise at all.

The U.K are a very developed Democracy.

Their democracy thrives to the point where recent Governments have never been accused of abuse of power.

In contrast with a country like Nigeria, ridden with a history of presidents who have excessively abused their powers.

It is too early to call for us as a Nation.

Stop clamouring for the introduction into our society, what saner climes introduced into theirs due to their record of transparency. We are not yet ripe for that. And it may take us 200 more years to be.

Well spoken. Thank you!
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by jaxxy(m): 5:38pm On Dec 21, 2019
Then they must have direct orders from the top and whoever gave those others will be held accountable for their actions. It’s that simple..
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by JuanDeDios: 5:44pm On Dec 21, 2019
Waakanda:
It simply means "they're above the law"... I thought only the Queen had that privilege.

#The Queen can do no wrong#
Nowhere does it say they're above the law. Did you people read the article? This only applies to the matter of sending agents to infiltrate criminal groups. And it states explicitly that the law does not confer immunity on those agents meaning they will still be held accountable for anything they do with intent.
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by JuanDeDios: 5:46pm On Dec 21, 2019
Maduawuchukwu:



The ruling relates to agents who are embeded in criminal groups otherwise called agent privocateurs. It gives them the right to participate in the activities of the criminal groups they are embedded in so as to not blow their cover. It is not the same with Sowores case. You are not smart.
Thank you.
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by ColonelEmeka: 5:50pm On Dec 21, 2019
*sips coffee* as i look at the posters above me pat themselves on the back as they huddle together cheesy cheesy
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by Nobody: 5:54pm On Dec 21, 2019
iamforeveryoung:
Oga try get sense, MI5 agent are like CIA, they dont work on home soil, they are intelligence arm that fight against terrorist and drug dealers. They are not use to victimize innocent harmless citizen. beside read very well, Boris is saying he wants to swash the law that give the power to just kidnap assumed terrorist and torture them.


The CIA was used to harass and intimidate black rights groups within USA territory like the Black Panther, attempted blackmail of Martin Luther, overthrow democracies in Iran, South America, and sponsor the seeds of what later became Al Quaeda in Afghanistan.
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by webngnews: 6:12pm On Dec 21, 2019
hmm
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by Medanoski(m): 6:43pm On Dec 21, 2019
ColonelEmeka:


A lot of you read but never understand anything you read.

The interpreted law does not mention criminals ordering the agents to murder, kidnap or torture but said Mi5 Can make this order...

Abeg read ooo
At this point I give up trying to argue with you. I bet you don't even know what MI5 stands for or how they operate.



Have you read it well now since you are misinforming yourself

*sips wine*
cheesy
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by Nobody: 6:55pm On Dec 21, 2019
ColonelEmeka:


You mean Agenda 51 and Agenda 82 right? grin grin

*Drinks cool aid*

Substrate level Illiterate; Google Agenda 21.
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by madridguy(m): 7:05pm On Dec 21, 2019
Britain’s domestic intelligence service MI5 can authorize its agents to engage in criminal activities, potentially including murder, kidnap and torture, a London court ruled, as Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s new government prepares to overhaul espionage laws.

National security is not what to toy with.
Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by southpole: 7:20pm On Dec 21, 2019
Aufbauh:
And this is a 'saner clime' according to some hypocritical Nigerians.

It seems that other developed countries are more brutal than us, just that their citizens are more patriotic than ours.
It is such laws that make their citizens more patriotic, the fear of punishment is what is making them to behave well not that they are doing it willingly.

1 Like

Re: Court Rules British MI5 Agents Can Murder, Kidnap And Torture by southpole: 7:28pm On Dec 21, 2019
Bedwyr:


Go to court, get a warrant, show probable cause, allow the accused access to lawyers, don't violate privace, etc etc...

Seriously, some of you guys, you did not live under Army rule...when one could be picked up by the DSS and held incommunicado for months, or the days when newspaper houses could be closed for months by the government, and so on.

Seriously, we need to respect legal due process in this country...for once.
The power to kill, kidnap and torture as given to the MI5 does not require legal or due process. It has been a practice by intelligence services all over the word. Don't bring issues of legal or due process in this.

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