Algerian2:


Even if this global fire ranking use demographic , geographic, economic stats for country ranking . for me this is a big mystery for why morocco is not 3rd in africa ranking . they have better equipments in number and quality in all sectors than south africcan , nigerian , angola , ethiopia and by far .

For airforce they have :
23 f16 block 52 15 F-16C / 8 F-16D ( that are upgraded to Block 70/72 . and they will receive 25 more last block 70/72. thats 48 F16 Viper ! and as US ally they got same technology and weapons than US on them .
27 Mirage F1/ MF2000 (upgraded)
28 Northrop F-5A/B/E/F ( upgraded to tiger III version)
24 Alphajet

Transport : 16 C130 / 4 Alenia C-27J Spartan / 7 CASA CN-235
They signed for 36 AH-64E Appach . they have 24 gazelle , 24 puma , 12 chinook , a hudge number of bell 205 .206. 202

Wich africcan air force (a part egypt ,algeria ) have better ?


For navy : they have . 1 FREMM , 3 sigma , 2 floreal . thats 6 frigates very well equiped

One Descubierta corvet and more than 20 different OPV and many other small patroller

For army : for tanks only the have :

384 M1A1 SA Abrams
148 T-72 B/V
453 M60-A3TTS upgraded to A3 version
54 MBT-2000 VT A1

Plus others artillery transport light armored vehicle ect...

For air defense they have

16 systems of the MIM-104 Patriot PAC 3 systems

32 systems of the chinese HQ9 long range defense system

48 MIM-72 Chaparral

+ the only true military spy satellite in africa with there Pléiades satelite


So realy i dont understand why moroccan army is not 3rd in africa

This is the truth.

kikuyu1:
.

I'm therefore eagerly awaiting the productionisation of the Indian Sitara ,the Intermediate Jet Trainer. While everyone is wanking over Sues,subs and Apaches the solution to our woefully under equipped air forces may come from India.

India must feel so proud of your marketing

Algerian2:


Even if this global fire ranking use demographic , geographic, economic stats for country ranking . for me this is a big mystery for why morocco is not 3rd in africa ranking . they have better equipments in number and quality in all sectors than south africcan , nigerian , angola , ethiopia and by far .

For airforce they have :
23 f16 block 52 15 F-16C / 8 F-16D ( that are upgraded to Block 70/72 . and they will receive 25 more last block 70/72. thats 48 F16 Viper ! and as US ally they got same technology and weapons than US on them .
27 Mirage F1/ MF2000 (upgraded)
28 Northrop F-5A/B/E/F ( upgraded to tiger III version)
24 Alphajet

Transport : 16 C130 / 4 Alenia C-27J Spartan / 7 CASA CN-235
They signed for 36 AH-64E Appach . they have 24 gazelle , 24 puma , 12 chinook , a hudge number of bell 205 .206. 202

Wich africcan air force (a part egypt ,algeria ) have better ?


For navy : they have . 1 FREMM , 3 sigma , 2 floreal . thats 6 frigates very well equiped

One Descubierta corvet and more than 20 different OPV and many other small patroller

For army : for tanks only the have :

384 M1A1 SA Abrams
148 T-72 B/V
453 M60-A3TTS upgraded to A3 version
54 MBT-2000 VT A1

Plus others artillery transport light armored vehicle ect...

For air defense they have

16 systems of the MIM-104 Patriot PAC 3 systems

32 systems of the chinese HQ9 long range defense system

48 MIM-72 Chaparral

+ the only true military spy satellite in africa with there Pléiades satelite


So realy i dont understand why moroccan army is not 3rd in africa

once upon a time, this called for sober reflection by Nigerians and Saffas in this thread

slimthugchimee2:


Bro do you remember the name of that upcoming military movie that they borrowed some military vehicles for

operation last dance

Algerian2:


Even if this global fire ranking use demographic , geographic, economic stats for country ranking . for me this is a big mystery for why morocco is not 3rd in africa ranking . they have better equipments in number and quality in all sectors than south africcan , nigerian , angola , ethiopia and by far .

For airforce they have :
23 f16 block 52 15 F-16C / 8 F-16D ( that are upgraded to Block 70/72 . and they will receive 25 more last block 70/72. thats 48 F16 Viper ! and as US ally they got same technology and weapons than US on them .
27 Mirage F1/ MF2000 (upgraded)
28 Northrop F-5A/B/E/F ( upgraded to tiger III version)
24 Alphajet

Transport : 16 C130 / 4 Alenia C-27J Spartan / 7 CASA CN-235
They signed for 36 AH-64E Appach . they have 24 gazelle , 24 puma , 12 chinook , a hudge number of bell 205 .206. 202

Wich africcan air force (a part egypt ,algeria ) have better ?


For navy : they have . 1 FREMM , 3 sigma , 2 floreal . thats 6 frigates very well equiped

One Descubierta corvet and more than 20 different OPV and many other small patroller

For army : for tanks only the have :

384 M1A1 SA Abrams
148 T-72 B/V
453 M60-A3TTS upgraded to A3 version
54 MBT-2000 VT A1

Plus others artillery transport light armored vehicle ect...

For air defense they have

16 systems of the MIM-104 Patriot PAC 3 systems

32 systems of the chinese HQ9 long range defense system

48 MIM-72 Chaparral

+ the only true military spy satellite in africa with there Pléiades satelite


So realy i dont understand why moroccan army is not 3rd in africa

pls don't mention again you'll give me a heart attack God see equipment.
They deserve to be third position then we'll be fourth Ethiopia be after SA.

Toju200:
pls don't mention again you'll give me a heart attack God see equipment.
They deserve to be third position then we'll be fourth Ethiopia be after SA.

Yeah don't do rankings mate leave it for the strongest military in Africa thread

Algerian2:


Even if this global fire ranking use demographic , geographic, economic stats for country ranking . for me this is a big mystery for why morocco is not 3rd in africa ranking . they have better equipments in number and quality in all sectors than south africcan , nigerian , angola , ethiopia and by far .

For airforce they have :
23 f16 block 52 15 F-16C / 8 F-16D ( that are upgraded to Block 70/72 . and they will receive 25 more last block 70/72. thats 48 F16 Viper ! and as US ally they got same technology and weapons than US on them .
27 Mirage F1/ MF2000 (upgraded)
28 Northrop F-5A/B/E/F ( upgraded to tiger III version)
24 Alphajet

Transport : 16 C130 / 4 Alenia C-27J Spartan / 7 CASA CN-235
They signed for 36 AH-64E Appach . they have 24 gazelle , 24 puma , 12 chinook , a hudge number of bell 205 .206. 202

Wich africcan air force (a part egypt ,algeria ) have better ?


For navy : they have . 1 FREMM , 3 sigma , 2 floreal . thats 6 frigates very well equiped

One Descubierta corvet and more than 20 different OPV and many other small patroller

For army : for tanks only the have :

384 M1A1 SA Abrams
148 T-72 B/V
453 M60-A3TTS upgraded to A3 version
54 MBT-2000 VT A1

Plus others artillery transport light armored vehicle ect...

For air defense they have

16 systems of the MIM-104 Patriot PAC 3 systems

32 systems of the chinese HQ9 long range defense system

48 MIM-72 Chaparral

+ the only true military spy satellite in africa with there Pléiades satelite


So realy i dont understand why moroccan army is not 3rd in africa

I've always said Global fire power was just a heaping pile of b.s

For obvious reasons I'm not going to post my rankings on this thread but I do believe that their are many more factors like C2 systems, Radar coverage, defence industry, data links ect ect which might or might not be factored when the rankings were done!

Algerian2:


Even if this global fire ranking use demographic , geographic, economic stats for country ranking . for me this is a big mystery for why morocco is not 3rd in africa ranking . they have better equipments in number and quality in all sectors than south africcan , nigerian , angola , ethiopia and by far .

For airforce they have :
23 f16 block 52 15 F-16C / 8 F-16D ( that are upgraded to Block 70/72 . and they will receive 25 more last block 70/72. thats 48 F16 Viper ! and as US ally they got same technology and weapons than US on them .
27 Mirage F1/ MF2000 (upgraded)
28 Northrop F-5A/B/E/F ( upgraded to tiger III version)
24 Alphajet

Transport : 16 C130 / 4 Alenia C-27J Spartan / 7 CASA CN-235
They signed for 36 AH-64E Appach . they have 24 gazelle , 24 puma , 12 chinook , a hudge number of bell 205 .206. 202

Wich africcan air force (a part egypt ,algeria ) have better ?


For navy : they have . 1 FREMM , 3 sigma , 2 floreal . thats 6 frigates very well equiped

One Descubierta corvet and more than 20 different OPV and many other small patroller

For army : for tanks only the have :

384 M1A1 SA Abrams
148 T-72 B/V
453 M60-A3TTS upgraded to A3 version
54 MBT-2000 VT A1

Plus others artillery transport light armored vehicle ect...

For air defense they have

16 systems of the MIM-104 Patriot PAC 3 systems

32 systems of the chinese HQ9 long range defense system

48 MIM-72 Chaparral

+ the only true military spy satellite in africa with there Pléiades satelite


So realy i dont understand why moroccan army is not 3rd in africa

You do realise the ability to wage war does not depend only on the materiel a country possesses, right?
Do Egypt, Algeria, Morocco have the economic and industrial depth and sophistiscation to wage war independently for a lengthy period of time as Nigeria or South Africa?

Here we go boys.... Buckle up

jln115:
Here we go boys.... Buckle up

Odunayaw:
once upon a time, this called for sober reflection by Nigerians and Saffas in this thread

I've been observing here since before the great hack. Intellectually, this is the lowest the thread has descended.

You, jln, nemesis, kikuyu, shadowprimezero etc, should allow the chest-puffing youngers to commit this thread to the same deserved fate as the other one.

Lurker4Long:


You do realise the ability to wage war does not depend only on the materiel a country possesses, right?
Do Egypt, Algeria, Morocco have the economic and industrial depth and sophistiscation to wage war independently for a lengthy period of time as Nigeria or South Africa?

For real, are you really asking this question?

I thought this would be obvious by now.

Off course they do.

Lurker4Long:


You do realise the ability to wage war does not depend only on the materiel a country possesses, right?
Do Egypt, Algeria, Morocco have the economic and industrial depth and sophistiscation to wage war independently for a lengthy period of time as Nigeria or South Africa?

Yes and better . armies like egypt are built for total war with israel . same for algeria and morocco each contract done or exercise is for a total war with its neighboor . or to defend itself against a NATO scale attack . nigeria and south africa for exemple dont have the same geopolitics and ennemies like north africa . thats why you dont spend like north africa in defense . when you have NATO in front of you its not the same , so for long large scale wars clearly armies like egypt , algeria , morocco are better prepared for and from decades ( check history of wars in north africa since antiquity to now days )

If not for the hack, this thread is upto 2000 pages b4

Algerian2:


Yes and better . armies like egypt are built for total war with israel . same for algeria and morocco each contract done or exercise is for a total war with its neighboor . or to defend itself against a NATO scale attack . nigeria and south africa for exemple dont have the same geopolitics and ennemies like north africa . thats why you dont spend like north africa in defense . when you have NATO in front of you its not the same , so for long large scale wars clearly armies like egypt , algeria , morocco are better prepared for and from decades ( check history of wars in north africa since antiquity to now days )

if nigeria was near to europe,nigeria would have gone haywire long ago....
nigeria doesnt see boko haram as that of a threat....

dont forget,nigeria was mostly ruled by military people....
near europe with our bad experience with them....??

its another thing....

Algerian2:


Yes and better . armies like egypt are built for total war with israel . same for algeria and morocco each contract done or exercise is for a total war with its neighboor . or to defend itself against a NATO scale attack . nigeria and south africa for exemple dont have the same geopolitics and ennemies like north africa . thats why you dont spend like north africa in defense . when you have NATO in front of you its not the same , so for long large scale wars clearly armies like egypt , algeria , morocco are better prepared for and from decades ( check history of wars in north africa since antiquity to now days )

OK this is actually a great topic which I'll like to join

Imo in terms of number and sophistication of platforms Algeria, Egypt and Morocco stand out in Africa and no one can deny this and yes I agree from training, spending and equipment these 3 countries out match any on the African Continent.

But I think what Lurker4Long was getting at is how sustainable are the armed forces of these countries, how much do they rely on foreign suppliers, how will they cope without foreign aid, how well equipped are the defence industries to supply and maintain critical equipment.

So basically I would like your opinion on the the sustainability of these nations(you can focus on Algeria) in terms of economic, industrial, local defence industry, standardisation of equipment (or diversification there of ), reliance on foreign suppliers as well as aid, and other related factors.

Maybe a comparison between these nations(specifically Algeria) and South Africa/Nigeria(maybe just stick to SA for the sack of peace ) in terms of the factors mentioned above?

jln115:

OK this is actually a great topic which I'll like to join

Imo in terms of number and sophistication of platforms Algeria, Egypt and Morocco stand out in Africa and no one can deny this and yes I agree from training, spending and equipment these 3 countries out match any on the African Continent.

But I think what Lurker4Long was getting at is how sustainable are the armed forces of these countries, how much do they rely on foreign suppliers, how will they cope without foreign aid, how well equipped are the defence industries to supply and maintain critical equipment.

So basically I would like your opinion on the the sustainability of these nations(you can focus on Algeria) in terms of economic, industrial, local defence industry, standardisation of equipment (or diversification there of ), reliance on foreign suppliers as well as aid, and other related factors.

Maybe a comparison between these nations(specifically Algeria) and South Africa/Nigeria(maybe just stick to SA for the sack of peace ) in terms of the factors mentioned above?

Well its a hudge subject that i dont have the pretention to talk about

But here 2 or 3 simple points :

for me even if coutries like egypt , south africa , algeria , morocco, nigeria have some high level maintnance capacity in different sectors . its impossible for them in case of a hudge war with the lose of hundreds tanks , jets in few days to repare or replace critical damaged equipments . we are not USA , Russia or china . when your grippen , sukhoi 30 , F16 is shot down by missile you will not repare it in few days . and you will not build a new fighter . because we dont produce them .


Thats why you should first have the quantity . when you have only 20 grippen C fighters ,and 12 attack helicopters. ( like south african AF for exemple) .what will you do if you lose them in one day ? how will you sustain a war ? So big quantity and quality is the first step to sustain a big war . and that why armies like egypt, algeria morocco can sustain better a big war even if they lose equipments .


And to be realistic for the case of algeria and morocco for exemple in case of a hudge war . i'm 100% sur you will see a hudge airlift bridge from russia to Algeria ( hundreds of tanks , jets . ammunitions in few days ...and inteligence and even diplomatic help and even a military direct help .) . and the same for morocco from france and USA .

When you buy billions weapon contract each year from the big Ally . you buy also its support and protection in case of war . thats how it work for small fry in this world . weapons contracts are also modern tax protection

The thing is, for example Egypt have military equipment that is 70% US origin,if Donald trump wakes up one and say "due to human right abuses/blah blah ......I am imposing a military/economic sanction on Egypt, then in the next 1year+ ,Egypt goes to war with a neighbor like isreal how would they replenish their bombs for f-16,how would they replenish their Abrams tank ammunition etc .....some of these are considered during global fire power ranking!

Algerian2:


Well its a hudge subject that i dont have the pretention to talk about


Thats why you should first have the quantity . when you have only 20 grippen C fighters ,and 12 attack helicopters. ( like south african AF for exemple) .what will you do if you lose them in one day ? how will you sustain a war ?

I know you are referring to South-Africa here, but I felt this insult here also. It hurts.

That's the other thing, if Algeria goes to war with Morocco, there would be huge support from Russia. Equipment, advisers, special forces, intelligence etc

Same thing for Morocco. The US will support massively.

Syria is a good example.

PrinxArthur1:
The thing is, for example Egypt have military equipment that is 70% US origin,if Donald trump wakes up one and say "due to human right abuses/blah blah ......I am imposing a military/economic sanction on Egypt, then in the next 1year+ ,Egypt goes to war with a neighbor like isreal how would they replenish their bombs for f-16,how would they replenish their Abrams tank ammunition etc .....some of these are considered during global fire power ranking!

That's why Egypt is buying the MIG-29M, Rafale and SU-35.

PrinxArthur1:
The thing is, for example Egypt have military equipment that is 70% US origin,if Donald trump wakes up one and say "due to human right abuses/blah blah ......I am imposing a military/economic sanction on Egypt, then in the next 1year+ ,Egypt goes to war with a neighbor like isreal how would they replenish their bombs for f-16,how would they replenish their Abrams tank ammunition etc .....some of these are considered during global fire power ranking!

When we had a proper military in Nigeria, we never bought from one source also. Czechoslovakia was our largest defence supplier at 30%.

When the Tanks have eyes.

PrinxArthur1:
The thing is, for example Egypt have military equipment that is 70% US origin,if Donald trump wakes up one and say "due to human right abuses/blah blah ......I am imposing a military/economic sanction on Egypt, then in the next 1year+ ,Egypt goes to war with a neighbor like isreal how would they replenish their bombs for f-16,how would they replenish their Abrams tank ammunition etc .....some of these are considered during global fire power ranking!

It's risky to buy from one source and Egypt is aware of the problem you mentioned and it is trying to create a part of its army that are Russian armed for example mig 29 m2, t90, s300v, k52...

A part of the algerian navy history
Chebec ship
was built in Algiers in the 17th century and armed from 8 to 30 canon and fought the British, the Dutch and other European countries cousd a lot of Mayhem because of its speed and fast turning to fire.
If her sails change from a triangular shape to a rectangle, she loses much of her speed

Odunayaw:
We've had this debate some 3yrs ago. Tracks have its advantages over Wheels and vice versa.

My point is, looking at our Security challenges (Present and Future), I don't see where Tracks come in first. Is it in the creeks & Jungles down South you'd drive your tracks?

Any issue we'd likely face in the South would be an Infantryman's problem I.e LICW

This is the fact in issue (clear and present danger)...

kabe1:


I know you are referring to South-Africa here, but I felt this insult here also. It hurts.

That's the other thing, if Algeria goes to war with Morocco, there would be huge support from Russia. Equipment, advisers, special forces, intelligence etc

Same thing for Morocco. The US will support massively.


Syria is a good example.

Is there any world power willing to support Nigeria if we'd go to war...(obviously not France)
I don't see that we are loyal to any big ally

Algerian2:


Well its a hudge subject that i dont have the pretention to talk about

But here 2 or 3 simple points :

for me even if coutries like egypt , south africa , algeria , morocco, nigeria have some high level maintnance capacity in different sectors . its impossible for them in case of a hudge war with the lose of hundreds tanks , jets in few days to repare or replace critical damaged equipments . we are not USA , Russia or china . when your grippen , sukhoi 30 , F16 is shot down by missile you will not repare it in few days . and you will not build a new fighter . because we dont produce them .


Thats why you should first have the quantity . when you have only 20 grippen C fighters ,and 12 attack helicopters. ( like south african AF for exemple) .what will you do if you lose them in one day ? how will you sustain a war ?

So big quantity and quality is the first step to sustain a big war . and that why armies like egypt, algeria morocco can sustain better a big war even if they lose equipments .


And to be realistic for the case of algeria and morocco for exemple in case of a hudge war . i'm 100% sur you will see a hudge airlift bridge from russia to Algeria ( hundreds of tanks , jets . ammunitions in few days ...and inteligence and even diplomatic help and even a military direct help .) . and the same for morocco from france and USA .

When you buy billions weapon contract each year from the big Ally . you buy also its support and protection in case of war . thats how it work for small fry in this world . weapons contracts are also modern tax protection

Great points!!.

But here is where I feel our North African cousins have a disadvantage:

1. If you look at the composition of there forces its glaringly obvious that there is a massive reliance on foreign suppliers, everything from ammunition to spares are supplied by foreign contractors!! Now you could say that contracts buy allies but, you just have to look at the Border War South Africa fought to realise how easily you can be hit by sanctions from all sides of the globe...... And at that point you are on your own.

Now I'm not so clued up on the industries of Algeria, Egypt and Morocco but how much of the ammunition from small caliber bullets, tank rounds, artillery shells, Rockets ect ect do these countries actually need to import? South Africa on the other hand produces all of its ammunition from small caliber bullets to missiles for its fighters...... South Africa also has the means to produce everything from IFVs to Attack helicopters and even fighters and has so in the past.

2. "So big quantity and quality is the first step to sustain a big war."

I don't believe this is 100% correct.....imo it's how effectively you can deploy and use your weapons that determine how well you can sustain a war, yes I agree that quantity will always be an advantage but to me logistics and communication are the most underrated factors to sustaining a war. Now I think I'll adress this topic in another post but I do feel in terms of communication and the sharing there of South Africa has a huge advantage vs our North African cousins.

3. And Lastly, the most important aspect to sustaining a war..........Money!!!

How long can Algerian, Moroccan and Egyption economies sustain a war vs how long the economies of SA or Nigeria can sustain a war.

P. S I'M certainly not saying the South African military is more powerful, I think its glaringly obvious which miltary is more capable but I'm simply entertaining a scenario where a France or a like for like come knocking on your door, and which country in Africa will be best able to sustain and be successful against such an enemy! But in the short term Algeria, Morocco and Egypt are much much better equipped to deal with a full scale war!

jln115:


Now I'm not so clued up on the industries of Algeria, Egypt and Morocco but how much of the ammunition from small caliber bullets, tank rounds, artillery shells, Rockets ect ect do these countries actually need to import? South Africa on the other hand produces all of its ammunition from small caliber bullets to missiles for its fighters...... South Africa also has the means to produce everything from IFVs to Attack helicopters and even fighters and has so in the past.

This is a blatant lie. South-African defence companies depend a lot on European supplies for the components used in making South-African manufactured weapons.

In the bush war South Africa still got most of the parts needed to manufacture weapons from Europe.

The Bush war was essentially democracy against communism.

GeneralFarouq:

Is there any world power willing to support Nigeria if we'd go to war...(obviously not France)
I don't see that we are loyal to any big ally

We don't have any, we're not buying enough weapons to have any leverage. The only thing going for us would be the explosion of migrants to Europe if a full blown war breaks out.

All our neighbours are very weak, so going to war against Nigeria is unlikely.

kabe1:

This is a blatant line. South-African defence companies depend a lot on European supplies for the components used in making South-African manufactured weapons.

In the bush war South Africa still got most of the parts needed to manufacture weapons from Europe.

The Bush war was essentially democracy against communism.

Bro you do realise Denel an MRO for Aérospatiale, hence all the parts for the Rooivalk and Oryx are manufactured from scratch in SA

"Denel Aeronautics is the original equipment manufacturer for the Rooivalk Combat support helicopter "
http://www.denelaviation.co.za/

Denel is also an approved service center for AgustaWestland and for Russian mi17s, 24s ect ect.

Also Atlantis Desiel Engineering produces all the engines and spares for our vehicles namely Ratel, Rooikat, Casspir, Samil ect ect

So saying we depended on Europe for the supply of our components also isn't 100% true.... After the sanctions South Africa had to rely on its self to arm, maintain and repair its forces hence most of our existing equipment was re-engineered and was manufactured in South Africa bar a few exemptions.

jln115:

Bro you do realise Denel an MRO for Aérospatiale, hence all the parts for the Rooivalk and Oryx are manufactured from scratch in SA

"Denel Aeronautics is the original equipment manufacturer for the Rooivalk Combat support helicopter "
http://www.denelaviation.co.za/

My brother, an MRO doesn't mean you manufacture weapons parts and components, that's a lie.

MRO simply means Maintenance Repair and Overhaul.

Jeez!!!

Nigeria is an MRO for the C-130, Eurocopter and Dauphin.

So this means we manufacture all the weapon components.

kabe1:

My brother, an MRO doesn't mean you manufacture weapons parts and components, that's a lie.

MRO simply means Maintenance Repair and Overhaul.

Jeez!!!

Nigeria is an MRO for the C-130, Eurocopter and Dauphin.

So this means we manufacture all the weapon components.

South Africa is the only accredited MRO Centre for C130 in Africa and 1 of only 9 across the globe thus Nigeria is not an MRO for C130s neither is it for Eurocopter or Dauphin. Its also the only accredited MRO for Aérospatiale(now airbus) and Russian helicopter:

"The company is now one of only nine accredited Hercules C-130 service centres in the world and the only one in Africa."

"Denel Aviation is now the only company accredited to perform maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) work on Russian helicopters in Africa."

Secondly I posted a snippet from Denels website were it clearly states that they are the original component manufacturer for Oryx and Rooivalk helicopters.

Also I see you have not responded to me on Atlantic desiel engineering so I assume you agree with that statement.