MuttleyLaff:
"So now Jesus and the ones he makes holy have the same Father.
That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them his brothers and sisters."
- Hebrews 2:11

If our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ is not ashamed to speak of us, as His brothers, why should I be bothered if someone else pridefully feels self conceited enough to turn their back on me and snub me as a brother , when I have God, when I already have our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ accepting me as one of His brothers. Praise God Alleluia. Jesus has brought me this far, the devil is a liar, smh.

"I don't recognise this Jesus you are painting as teaching anyone to kill one another over pride, racism and politics. I don't recognise a Jesus causing confusion. God is not a God of confusion. Sorry.

There is no and/or nothing like "my Jesus," Jesus is for everyone, Jesus is everyone's. Jesus is everybody's."
- Re: Bible Scholars Should Help Me Out With This Teachings. PLEASE. by MuttleyLaff: 5:02pm On Dec 23rd 2019

Whatever Maximus69 wants to believe, we all know that, all those eating, at our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ's dinning table are brothers and sisters on to each other. Any out there, all those doing God’s will are brothers and sister of each other.

God's will is for true believers to have the same line of thought on sacred matters, that's why God's only begotten son prayed fervently for this! John 17:20-23

So if you and i aren't having the same line of thought regarding divine judgment, that means our God differs!

I'm OK if you claim that yours is the true God and that mine is fake, what i'll never agree is that you (a none JW) worships the same God as mine, neither are you my brother in FAITH!

Thanks for your time Sir!

Maximus69:
God's will is for true believers to have the same line of thought on sacred matters, that's why God's only begotten son prayed fervently for this! John 17:20-23

So if you and i aren't having the same line of thought regarding divine judgment, that means our God differs!

I'm OK if you claim that yours is the true God and that mine is fake, what i'll never agree is that you (a none JW) worships the same God as mine, neither are you my brother in FAITH!

Thanks for your time Sir!

MuttleyLaff:
You have ever been spoiling to have an argument and/or fight with me and I keep dodging from it. You have labelled me all sorts, accused me of being all sorts, even after I've pasted quotes of me taken from other topics on other threads, just so you can at least, have an idea of my position(s), you still charge on full cylinders. Maximus69, I am not into proof-texting with Bible verses. I don't have to prove anything about me and/or my faith to you. Have you not noticed with your attitude and way you've been behaving how you have alienated Ihedinobi3? I have on record shared a story here in past on the Religion forum, of my experience with a Jehovah's Witness at an international airport departures lounge, who because she saw me reading a red Bible while waiting to be called to board our flight, thought I was a Jehovah's Witness, but upon being told no, the conversation stopped and went stone dead cold, with a blank stared face. I didn't take it personal, as like I earlier had said, it is because I know people are on different altitudes etcetera.

You already have your 99 problems on this thread with others, please don't have me as your 100th problem. Please, leave me, let me be in my lane. We are on the same train, but in different coaches, that's fine, OK and dandy. I have no problem or concerns with that. Of course, you have a conscience, well ...hmm. I bite my tongue.

I dont think I have ever discussed "you claim that yours is the true God and that mine is fake" with you. Neither, do I think, I have ever discussed "worships the same God as mine or not ..." with you. We have Jesus in common, if you dont want to be a brother, fine then. It is not the end of the world and nobody, anyway, is forcing you to make fetch happen Sir! lol.

MuttleyLaff:


I dont think I have ever discussed "you claim that yours is the true God and that mine is fake" with you. Neither, do I think, I have ever discussed "worships the same God as mine or not ..." with you. We have Jesus in common, if you dont want to be a brother, fine then. It is not the end of the world and nobody, anyway, is forcing you to make fetch happen Sir! lol.

There is nothing like force in the matter, i think i've made myself clear. If you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses then you're my neighbour NOT my brother.

Haba Jesus said exactly the same thing and the gospel never said Mary, Joseph (junior), Simon, Judas and James pestered him further. Instead three members of his family accepted what he said in good faith while others ignored him anyway.

So the same thing i'm saying now Sir, that other religionists may tell you that you're their brother in FAITH but as for me (Maximus) if you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses you can never be my brother in the FAITH!

Maximus69:
There is nothing like force in the matter,

You cant say anyway, that anyone's forced/has being/has tried forcing you to be a brother

Maximus69:
i think i've made myself clear. If you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses then you're my neighbour NOT my brother.

The loss is not mine, lol

Maximus69:
Haba Jesus said exactly the same thing and the gospel never said Mary, Joseph (junior), Simon, Judas and James pestered him further. Instead three members of his family accepted what he said in good faith while others ignored him anyway

Please dont be self-conceited and if you want to be, brother-to-no-one or prefer to be "Billy No Mates", no one is pestering you over that. Its your prerogative, just as I have previously said to you, lol

Maximus69:
So the same thing i'm saying now Sir, that other religionists may tell you that you're their brother in FAITH but as for me (Maximus) if you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses you can never be my brother in the FAITH!

A brother or sister in Christ is who we are, born from above, as God's children. If you're not my brother in faith, you're my equal in humanity, there's no discrimination in that one, lol. The believers' love, with no discrimination is best. Thank you Jesus Christ, Son of God, our Lord and Savior, for taking and seeing us as brothers/sisters.

The dancing Samuel Frederick Herd. If the year was 1999, that the first black man, was appointed to be a member in the Governing Body, though to date, Mr "women have small brains, so cant lead" is the only black, in the seven member Governing Body, there's hope for the other and/or more forms of discrimination too, to melt away, lol

. 5 Put yourselves to the TEST to see if YOU are in the FAITH; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that JESUS CHRIST is in YOU—unless, indeed, YOU FAIL the TEST! 

So then, if ANYONE is in CHRIST, he is a new CREATION; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come! 

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS.

For this is the WILL of my FATHER—for everyone who LOOKS on the SON and BELIEVES in HIM to have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”


For whoever does the WILL of MY FATHER in HEAVEN is my BROTHER and SISTER and MOTHER.”


REMAIN IN UNION WITH CHRIST THAT'S ALL

MuttleyLaff:
You cant say anyway, that anyone's forced/has being/has tried forcing you to be a brother

The loss is not mine, lol

Please dont be self-conceited and if you want to be, brother-to-no-one or prefer to be "Billy No Mates", no one is pestering you over that. Its your prerogative, just as I have previously said to you, lol

A brother or sister in Christ is who we are, born from above, as God's children. If you're not my brother in faith, you're my equal in humanity, there's no discrimination in that one, lol. The believers' love, with no discrimination is best. Thank you Jesus Christ, Son of God, our Lord and Savior, for taking and seeing us as brothers/sisters.

The dancing Samuel Frederick Herd. If the year was 1999, that the first black man, was appointed to be a member in the Governing Body, though to date, Mr "women have small brains, so cant lead" is the only black, in the seven member Governing Body, there's hope for the other and/or more forms of discrimination too, to melt away, lol

Thank God, what a relief!

That's exactly what i've been trying to tell you all these while Sir!

You can be brother or sister to anybody according to your own kind of faith, but as for me the only group where i can find a BROTHER or SISTER in my own kind of faith is Jehovah's Witnesses! All others are MY NEIGHBOURS!

So that one is settled Sir!

MuttleyLaff:
You cant say anyway, that anyone's forced/has being/has tried forcing you to be a brother

The loss is not mine, lol

Please dont be self-conceited and if you want to be, brother-to-no-one or prefer to be "Billy No Mates", no one is pestering you over that. Its your prerogative, just as I have previously said to you, lol

A brother or sister in Christ is who we are, born from above, as God's children. If you're not my brother in faith, you're my equal in humanity, there's no discrimination in that one, lol. The believers' love, with no discrimination is best. Thank you Jesus Christ, Son of God, our Lord and Savior, for taking and seeing us as brothers/sisters.

The dancing Samuel Frederick Herd. If the year was 1999, that the first black man, was appointed to be a member in the Governing Body, though to date, Mr "women have small brains, so cant lead" is the only black, in the seven member GOVERNING BODY, there's hope for the other and/or more forms of discrimination too, to melt away, lol

Maximus was a staunch Muslim just like me before converting to JW, he cherished the word brothers in faith so dearly, that's why he will never accept anyone who doesn't share his belief to be his brother in faith. Granted all humans regardless of whatever we worship are neighbours!

The name "Jesus" has been subjected to all manner of idolatry in centuries past, leaving most people confused as to what Christianity truly means. Hence questions like the OP keeps emerging due to so many contradicting doctrines in the name of the same Jesus. I'm also one of Jehovah's Witnesses today and i'll never accept anyone as a brother if you don't share my belief ~2John 10-11

The Bible wasn't written by Jesus but men under the influence of God's holy spirit did, nobody living today can claim he believe in Jesus since we can't see, hear from him nor examine any form of document written by him!
It's the documents written by his disciples (who were eyewitnesses of his activities) that we believe NOT Jesus himself who never penned down a single word in all the 66 books that makes the Bible! John 20:29
Therefore if we believe in their writings today, we need to ask "who are those Jesus is using to dispense vital information in our own time?" Matthew 24:45

Whoever ignored the information they're passing today can't truthfully be a Christian!

The GOVERNING BODY of Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the group Jesus is using in our own time, and they have successfully gathered people from different races across the globe to become one peace loving family. So whoever denies their authenticity as the one and only group Jesus is using can't be my brother in faith. That's what Maximus is saying!

stupidity:
After praying every morning, I read my bible to gain more knowledge. So I have few questions and I want people that are deep into bible study to help me out.

In the book of Genesis,

Genesis chapter 1 vs 26

“then God said let’s make man in “our” own image, according to “our” likeness”

Q. Who was God referring to as “our” when He alone was and is the only God??

Q 2. If God created man in His own image, does it mean man was once like God or should I say man was God on earth?


1 vs 27 to 29, the creation of man was narrated here.

2 vs 15 to 25, the creation of Adam and Eve was narrated here.

Q. Is the creation of Adam and Eve same as the creation of man in genesis chapter 1 vs 27 to 29?

Reason why I’m asking the question is, the first creation of man narrated in Genesis 1vs27-29 seems not to go into much details until Adam and Eve’s creation.


Genesis 2vs8

Why did God plant the tree of evil in the garden that was supposed to be heaven on earth? When He knew man has a weakness and where was God when the serpent made Eve eat from the tree of evil? Also why did God put the serpent in the Garden of Eden when He knew the serpent was evil and bound to corrupt God’s creation?


Genesis chapter 3vs11, Adam was quick to shift blame to Eve. Typical of mankind. (Still happens till date)

Again in genesis chapter 3vs22, God said “behold, the man has become one of “us” to know good and evil.

God made use of the word “us” again.

In the beginning/creation, no other being, Angel, God was made mention of but only Him. Then who are the “us” He talked about?

Genesis chapter 3vs19, God cursed Adam “in the sweat of your face, you shall eat bread till you return to the ground for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return”

Q. If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the evil tree, does this mean mankind will not know death but live forever on earth? If yes, what happens to the world ever increasing population??


Q 2. What would have become of mankind if Adam and Eve had not eaten from the evil tree?

Reason for this last question is, if Adam and Eve was so easy to manipulate and made to eat from the evil tree by a mere serpent right inside the Garden of Eden, this means God’s creation(man) was ALREADY vulnerable(FLAW) even before eating the forbidden fruit.

PLEASE your contributions are very welcomed!! I’m learning. Pardon my moniker.

Jesus' true followers are going about both rain and sunshine to educate people freely about what we ought to know and do today. They are globally known as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

It is 100% certain that they'll locate you one of these days!

I once prayed to God for help in knowing those teaching the truth about him, but funny enough back then i keep telling God "i don't want Jehovah's Witnesses". But each time i repeat this pray, Jehovah's Witnesses kept coming to visit despite all the insults, abuses, humiliation i gave them!

Well today i'm one of them, because i persisted in the same prayer and God kept sending his WITNESSES to me until i asked myself
"why is it that each time i pray to God to send his true worshippers, Jehovah's Witnesses kept coming?"

My landlady back then laughed at me and said "stop the prayer as ask for something else, if Jehovah's Witnesses stop coming then know that God has answered your prayer. But i'm sure they'll still come again"

To my shocking surprise for a whole month none of them came knocking my door! The only day i saw them in the yard, i ran into my room expecting they'll come but only God knows why they turned back and walked away!

I resume back to my usual prayer and the very next hour two of them walked up to my door again! From that very hour i began listening to them with keen interest and asking tough questions that's provoking, but they never got annoyed. Instead they'll mildly answer and the surprising thing is i insisted on using my own copy of the Bible until i'm finally convinced that they're truly the answer to my long time request!

Maximus69:
Thank God, what a relief!
That's exactly what i've been trying to tell you all these while Sir!

I heard you from a mile way

Maximus69:
You can be brother or sister to anybody according to your own kind of faith, but as for me the only group where i can find a BROTHER or SISTER in my own kind of faith is Jehovah's Witnesses!

There is nothing like "your own kind of faith", there is faith in our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. You like self-centralising and/or personalising things too much.

If our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call us and speak of us, as His brothers, why should I be bothered if someone else pridefully feels self conceited enough to turn their back on me and snub me as a brother. I have God, I already have our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ accepting me as one of His brothers. It is a good and exhilarating feeling to have. Jesus has brought me this far, the devil is a liar, smh. Praise God Alleluia.

Maximus69:
All others are MY NEIGHBOURS!

Every human being on earth first is your neighbour , before they get upgraded into the family of God, as brother/sister.

Maximus69:
So that one is settled Sir!

Its up to you, settled or not settled. I aint losing sleep over you not want to be anyones brother except JWs, lol

TATIME:
Maximus69 was a staunch Muslim just like me before converting to JW,

Oh was he and you too now, lol. No wonder he kept using the "brother in faith" phrase, that was getting me wondering. Everything has just made sense now, lol. From frying pan into fire, or is it fire into fying pan, lol

TATIME:
he cherished the word brothers in faith so dearly, that's why he will never accept anyone who doesn't share his belief to be his brother in faith.

Thank you for providing that missing piece in the puzzle. Knowing the "brother in faith" is a usually a phrase commonly used among Muslims, I was puzzled and scratching my head wondering why was Maximus69 using and introducing it to the thread, because I never used the phrase. What I've been using was "brother in Christ" so him using "brother in faith" got me wondering whats going on, but now thanks to TATIME, I've got to understand it is an influence from his back in the day Muslim days, lol, old habit surely are hard to let go off, lol

TATIME:
Granted all humans regardless of whatever we worship are neighbours!

Gbam. Encore standing ovation, lol, at least we agree on something

TATIME:
The name "Jesus" has been subjected to all manner of idolatry in centuries past, leaving most people confused as to what Christianity truly means.

What really is Christianity other than a Constantine Roman invention, lol eh?

TATIME:
Hence questions like the OP keeps emerging due to so many contradicting doctrines in the name of the same Jesus. I'm also one of Jehovah's Witnesses today and i'll never accept anyone as a brother if you don't share my belief ~2John 10-11

Suit yourself, same way, I've telling Maximus69, it is his prerogative, same I'll tell you. Your non acceptance is not going to bring down the price of a loaf of bread

TATIME:
The Bible wasn't written by Jesus but men under the influence of God's holy spirit did, nobody living today can claim he believe in Jesus since we can't see, hear from him nor examine any form of document written by him!
It's the documents written by his disciples (who were eyewitnesses of his activities) that we believe NOT Jesus himself who never penned down a single word in all the 66 books that makes the Bible! John 20:29
Therefore if we believe in their writings today, we need to ask "who are those Jesus is using to dispense vital information in our own time?" Matthew 24:45

Whoever ignored the information they're passing today can't truthfully be a Christian!

TATIME/Maximus69, we all seek to serve God with the help of the Holy Spirit to the best of our ability and capabilities. Our conviction and belief are not formed to please people nor not for their pleasure, so wherever we stand, kneel, crouch, bend down or sit on any particular issue, we should not get sucked into that grimy, dark and ugly place where we begin to vilify, shun, snub, demonise, alienate, disfellowship, exclude or ostracise others because of them being people with different views to us. I will never reject a believer and/or a JW as a brother in Christ, for having a different view on things to me. Afterall, we serve the same Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and preach the same Gospel!

TATIME:
The GOVERNING BODY of Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the group Jesus is using in our own time, and they have successfully gathered people from different races across the globe to become one peace loving family. So whoever denies their authenticity as the one and only group Jesus is using can't be my brother in faith.

I am glad you spotted me sneak in the "The GOVERNING BODY" lol. I also typed "the dancing" before Samuel Frederick Herd, lol, then said that, the year was 1999, was when the first black man, was appointed to be a member in the Governing Body and that since then to date, he is the only black man in the Governing Body, lol. If there could be Mr "women have small brains, so cant lead" in the Governing Body, do you think the GOVERNING BODY group is above making mistakes, never could do wrong, it's beyond criticism, it's ever faultless?

TATIME:
That's what Maximus is saying!

Maximus69 has been drinking water, not walking on water. I know what he is saying. I am doing my own saying and what Jesus says too, lol

Maximus69:


God's will is for true believers to have the same line of thought on sacred matters, that's why God's only begotten son prayed fervently for this! John 17:20-23

So if you and i aren't having the same line of thought regarding divine judgment, that means our God differs!

I'm OK if you claim that yours is the true God and that mine is fake, what i'll never agree is that you (a none JW) worships the same God as mine, neither are you my brother in FAITH!

Thanks for your time Sir!

Actually jesus in that gospel prayed that we may be one in loving one another, he wasn't necessarily saying we should have thesame line of thought in my understanding.


Paul even agrees in 1 Corinthians 13, that we know in part but love is the most important.

TATIME:


Maximus was a staunch Muslim just like me before converting to JW, he cherished the word brothers in faith so dearly, that's why he will never accept anyone who doesn't share his belief to be his brother in faith. Granted all humans regardless of whatever we worship are neighbours!

The name "Jesus" has been subjected to all manner of idolatry in centuries past, leaving most people confused as to what Christianity truly means. Hence questions like the OP keeps emerging due to so many contradicting doctrines in the name of the same Jesus. I'm also one of Jehovah's Witnesses today and i'll never accept anyone as a brother if you don't share my belief ~2John 10-11

The Bible wasn't written by Jesus but men under the influence of God's holy spirit did, nobody living today can claim he believe in Jesus since we can't see, hear from him nor examine any form of document written by him!
It's the documents written by his disciples (who were eyewitnesses of his activities) that we believe NOT Jesus himself who never penned down a single word in all the 66 books that makes the Bible! John 20:29
Therefore if we believe in their writings today, we need to ask "who are those Jesus is using to dispense vital information in our own time?" Matthew 24:45

Whoever ignored the information they're passing today can't truthfully be a Christian!

The GOVERNING BODY of Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the group Jesus is using in our own time, and they have successfully gathered people from different races across the globe to become one peace loving family. So whoever denies their authenticity as the one and only group Jesus is using can't be my brother in faith. That's what Maximus is saying!

Tatime! Tatime!! Tatime!!!

My brother, you know i missed your posts full of wise counsels!

Hmmmmmmmmm, so nobody can truthfully say "i believe Jesus" since we haven't seen, heard nor assessed any document written by him!

Thanks my brother! Now i know that the people we all believe (trust) are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John because they're the writers and they actually tagged their names on their writings regarding the life and ministry of Jesus! John 17:20

So for anyone to say "i believe in the writings of those four including other Christian Greek Scriptures" such a person must also believe whatever those people penned down as spoken by Jesus to prove they're fully convinced the writers spoke the TRUTH about Jesus!

Please ask them "where/who is the faithful slave" Jesus promised will be serving as his spokesman in our time? Matthew 24:45

MuttleyLaff:
I heard you from a mile way

There is nothing like "your own kind of faith", there is faith in our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. You like self-centralising and/or personalising things too much.

If our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call us and speak of us, as His brothers, why should I be bothered if someone else pridefully feels self conceited enough to turn their back on me and snub me as a brother. I have God, I already have our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ accepting me as one of His brothers. It is a good and exhilarating feeling to have. Jesus has brought me this far, the devil is a liar, smh. Praise God Alleluia.

Every human being on earth first is your neighbour , before they get upgraded into the family of God, as brother/sister.

Its up to you, settled or not settled. I aint losing sleep over you not want to be anyones brother except JWs, lol

Muttleylaff: Every human being on earth first is your neighbour , before they get upgraded into the family of God, as brother/sister


Achorladey: Reality up there. Then I ponder sometimes over the second commandment.......

Love your NEIGHBOUR as YOURSELF so says the scriptures. One can only wonder where the LINE is DRAWN between LOVE of NEIGHBOUR and love of BROTHER.

Perhaps we can DIE for a BROTHER and there is SOMEONE who DIED for his NEIGHBOURS that are SINNERS against GOD due to LOVE for them.

achorladey:


Muttleylaff: Every human being on earth first is your neighbour , before they get upgraded into the family of God, as brother/sister


Achorladey: Reality up there. Then I ponder sometimes over the second commandment.......

Love your NEIGHBOUR as YOURSELF so says the scriptures. One can only wonder where the LINE is DRAWN between LOVE of NEIGHBOUR and love of BROTHER.

Perhaps we can DIE for a BROTHER and there is SOMEONE who DIED for his NEIGHBOURS that are SINNERS against GOD due to LOVE for them.

There was no distinction between love for neighbour and love for brothers in the teachings of jesus. The good samaritan may be of a different race and religion but he is the prime example of a neighbour. Brothers are those who do the will of the father in heaven, but jesus did not teach that we must love brothers specially or show favouritism, only that brothers should be one just as he and the father are one, so that we may do the will of God on earth together the way we should as brothers.
Even then there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

Daejoyoung:

There was no distinction between love for neighbour and love for brothers in the teachings of jesus. The good samaritan may be of a different race and religion but he is the prime example of a neighbour. Brothers are those who do the will of the father in heaven, but jesus did not teach that we must love brothers specially or show favouritism, only that brothers should be one just as he and the father are one, so that we may do the will of God on earth together the way we should as brothers.
Even then there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

Hmmmmm. Got the point made.

Daejoyoung:

Actually jesus in that gospel prayed that we may be one in loving one another he wasn't necessarily saying we should have thesame line of thought in my understanding.


Paul even agrees in 1 Corinthians 13, that we know in part but love is the most important.

@bolded is where i disagree with any other form of worship apart from Jehovah's Witnesses!

You can't LOVE one another in Christ if you people are still into Politics!

Politics will always spur Racism and with these two, there is no way LOVE, JOY and PEACE can work in any society!

So only Jehovah's Witnesses are true Christians because there is no Politician amongst them, hence you are their brother no matter where you come from so far you agree to live by their rules!
Jehovah's Witnesses will never deal with you saying "so and so person is English, German, American, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Hausa or Ibo or Yoruba, the LOVE in their midst has buried Racism! Romans 10:12

But all other religionists claiming brothers and sisters in Jesus will bury the LOVE they claim for Christ in the face of POLITICS!

Daejoyoung:

There was no distinction between love for neighbour and love for brothers in the teachings of jesus. The good samaritan may be of a different race and religion but he is the prime example of a neighbour. Brothers are those who do the will of the father in heaven, but jesus did not teach that we must love brothers specially or show favouritism, only that brothers should be one just as he and the father are one, so that we may do the will of God on earth together the way we should as brothers.
Even then there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

It's Jesus who called his friends (those sharing his thoughts) "BROTHERS" whereas he publicly declared that his mother and brothers are less important when talking about his REAL family (fellow believers)

So if you don't understand what the prophets were inspired to pen down in the old Testament { Proverbs 18:24} just watch how Jesus(God's only begotten son) applied it! Matthew 12:46-50

Only Jehovah's Witnesses applied it correctly!

MuttleyLaff:
I heard you from a mile way

There is nothing like "your own kind of faith", there is faith in our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. You like self-centralising and/or personalising things too much.

If our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call us and speak of us, as His brothers, why should I be bothered if someone else pridefully feels self conceited enough to turn their back on me and snub me as a brother. I have God, I already have our Lord and Savior, the Son of God, Jesus Christ accepting me as one of His brothers. It is a good and exhilarating feeling to have. Jesus has brought me this far, the devil is a liar, smh. Praise God Alleluia.

Every human being on earth first is your neighbour , before they get upgraded into the family of God, as brother/sister.

Its up to you, settled or not settled. I aint losing sleep over you not want to be anyones brother except JWs, lol

This isn't about what i want Sir, it's what Jesus taught!

If you are his mother, brother, sister, cousin, uncle, nephew, niece, father or grandfather, as long as you disagree with him on sacred matters Jesus quantify you as his NEIGHBOUR!

Why?

Because you're in the same neighborhood where he resides.

But no matter where you come from as long as you're ready to accept his teachings Jesus said you automatically become his family!

So if you disagree with that concept it's OK but i agree with him 100%, hence you can't be my brother if you don't share the same mindset with me on sacred matters, that's all!

Maximus69:


It's Jesus who called his friends (those sharing his thoughts) "BROTHERS" whereas he publicly declared that his mother and brothers are less important when talking about his REAL family (fellow believers)

So if you don't understand what the prophets were inspired to pen down in the old Testament { Proverbs 18:24} just watch how Jesus(God's only begotten son) applied it! Matthew 12:46-50

Only Jehovah's Witnesses applied it correctly!

l think the major thing here is what it takes to be a brother, if anyone does the will of God by faith hoping for the coming of the kingdom (salvation of mankind and removal of wickedness and suffering on earth) then automatically we are brothers.

Maximus69:


This isn't about what i want Sir, it's what Jesus taught!

If you are his mother, brother, sister, cousin, uncle, nephew, niece, father or grandfather, as long as you disagree with him on sacred matters Jesus quantify you as his NEIGHBOUR!

Why?

Because you're in the same neighborhood where he resides.

But no matter where you come from as long as you're ready to accept his teachings Jesus said you automatically become his family!

So if you disagree with that concept it's OK but i agree with him 100%, hence you can't be my brother if you don't share the same mindset with me on sacred matters, that's all!

He didn't say as long as you disagree with him on sacred matters, he said as long as you don't do the will of my father in heaven.

MuttleyLaff:
Oh was he and you too now, lol. No wonder he kept using the "brother in faith" phrase, that was getting me wondering. Everything has just made sense now, lol. From frying pan into fire, or is it fire into fying pan, lol

Thank you for providing that missing piece in the puzzle. Knowing the "brother in faith" is a usually a phrase commonly used among Muslims, I was puzzled and scratching my head wondering why was Maximus69 using and introducing it to the thread, because I never used the phrase. What I've been using was "brother in Christ" so him using "brother in faith" got me wondering whats going on, but now thanks to TATIME, I've got to understand it is an influence from his back in the day Muslim days, lol, old habit surely are hard to let go off, lol

Gbam. Encore standing ovation, lol, at least we agree on something

What really is Christianity other than a Constatine Roman invention, lol eh?

Suit yourself, same way, I've telling Maximus69, it is his prerogative, same I'll tell you. Your non acceptance is not going to bring down the price of a loaf of bread

TATIME/Maximus69, we all seek to serve God with the help of the Holy Spirit to the best of our ability and capabilities. Our conviction and belief are not formed to please people nor not for their pleasure, so wherever we stand, kneel, crouch, bend down or sit on any particular issue, we should not get sucked into that grimy, dark and ugly place where we begin to vilify, shun, snub, demonise, alienate, disfellowship, exclude or ostracise others because of them being people with different views to us. I will never reject a believer and/or a JW as a brother in Christ, for having a different view on things to me. Afterall, we serve the same Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and preach the same Gospel!

I am glad you spotted me sneak in the "The GOVERNING BODY" lol. I also typed "the dancing" before Samuel Frederick Herd, lol, then said that, the year was 1999, was when the first black man, was appointed to be a member in the Governing Body and that since then to date, he is the only black man in the Governing Body, lol. If there could be Mr "women have small brains, so cant lead" in the Governing Body, do you think the GOVERNING BODY group is above making mistakes, never could do wrong, it's beyond criticism, it's ever faultless?

Maximus69 has been drinking water, not walking on water. I know what he is saying. I am doing my own saying and what Jesus says too, lol

I only made the case easier and more open than what we Jehovah's Witnesses say by our actions!

For example

Jehovah's Witnesses will never engage a none JW in prayer if such a person is not prepared to listen, learn, obey and apply all what we are teaching him/her.

Because such a person is Just our neighbour, and sacred services are not to be between us and neighbours except those who are already convinced that we are God's servants!

Proverbs 28:9 says "he who is not willing to bow to God's laws, his prayers shall become detestable before God"!

@ Jeremiah 11:14, 14:11, God repeatedly warned Jeremiah NOT to pray in behalf of his people because they are NOT ready to obey his words!

Now Jesus (God's only begotten son) came, he never said anything about what those prophets penned down. But while studying him through what was recorded about him, Jesus REFUSED to pray with his disciples until he was 100% certain that this ones are ready to remain in his teachings! John 17:8-9

You can search the scriptures carefully to see if Jesus ever prayed with anyone before then. It was when his followers were fed up with his attitude that they ask him to teach them how to communicate with his father that Jesus always talks to IN PRIVATE! Luke 11:1

Jesus FULFILLED all the rules those prophets penned down! Matthew 5:17

With this in mind, note how Jesus dealt with his NEIGHBOURS (those living nearby) and how he dealt with his BROTHERS (those who have accepted his teachings)

So there is a clear distinction between how Jesus treats his NEIGHBOURS and how he treated his BROTHERS!

Daejoyoung:

He didn't say as long as you disagree with him on sacred matters, he said as long as you don't do the will of my father in heaven.

Hmmmmmmmmm!

Please, allow God's holy spirit to open your spiritual eyes on this matter Sir!

First of all i want you to know that Jesus is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, nobody can gain salvation except through him! John 14:6

Secondly God spoke directly from heaven saying "this is my beloved son LISTEN TO HIM" Matthew 17:5

Do you think any of Adam's descendants who are sinners {Romans 3:23,5:12,6:23} can do the will of God without agreeing completely with Jesus on all sacred matters?

Remember that we are all sinners, so according to what is on ground now we are all doomed if not for the intervention of Jesus who paid for our sins! Psalms 49:7-9

Jesus is now the one and only person who can connect us back to God for us to live FOREVER {John 3:16} and to do this each so called believer NEED to follow Jesus' footsteps as CLOSELY as possible { 1Peter 2:21} for us to gain salvation we MUST try all our best to copy him in thoughts, words and actions, only those who are able to master all these are Christians (little Jesus) in God's sight and only such ones will be granted the permission to LIVE FOREVER!

Well that is what it means to DO THE WILL OF JESUS' FATHER! John 3:17-19

Maximus69:


Hmmmmmmmmm!

Please, allow God's holy spirit to open your spiritual eyes on this matter Sir!

First of all i want you to know that Jesus is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, nobody can gain salvation except through him! John 14:6

Secondly God spoke directly from heaven saying "this is my beloved son LISTEN TO HIM" Matthew 17:5

Do you think any of Adam's descendants who are sinners {Romans 3:23,5:12,6:23} can do the will of God without agreeing completely with Jesus on all sacred matters?

Remember that we are all sinners, so according to what is on ground now we are all doomed if not for the intervention of Jesus who paid for our sins! Psalms 49:7-9

Jesus is now the one and only person who can connect us back to God for us to live FOREVER {John 3:16} and to do this each so called believer NEED to follow Jesus' footsteps as CLOSELY as possible { 1Peter 2:21} for us to gain salvation we MUST try all our best to copy him in thoughts, words and actions, only those who are able to master all these are Christians (little Jesus) in God's sight and only such ones will be granted the permission to LIVE FOREVER!

Well that is what it means to DO THE WILL OF JESUS' FATHER! John 3:17-19

lt is not about agreeing on sacred matters, how do we get all Christians to agree on all sacred matters? we are different, and everyone sees differently, but there are royal laws in our hearts that we can all agree to.
Jesus also said that no one can come unto him except God draws him near, and remember that jesus died for the world not just christians, this therefore means that for us who are at the father's side, we can only state what we believe, but it is God who would teach every man and they would all know the lord because he would eventually pour out his spirit upon all flesh, and everyone that is taught of God would come to jesus.
We definitely cannot convince every Christian to believe everything we believe but that doesn't stop us from working together in love when we can.

Loving each other is the only mark of discipleship as evidence to the world given by jesus not necessarily beliefs in sacred doctrines.

l agree that beliefs are important to hold the community but love is a greater mark of brotherhood and community than beliefs or sacred doctrines. lt is a stronger force and it abides forever for even beliefs or so called sacred doctrines do change sometimes.

Daejoyoung:

lt is not about agreeing on sacred matters, how do we get all Christians to agree on all sacred matters? we are different, and everyone sees differently, but there are royal laws in our hearts that we can all agree to.
Jesus also said that no one can come unto him except God draws him near, and remember that jesus died for the world not just christians, this therefore means that for us who are at the father's side, we can only state what we believe, but it is God who would teach every man and they would all know the lord because he would eventually pour out his spirit upon all flesh, and everyone that is taught of God would come to jesus.
We definitely cannot convince every Christian to believe everything we believe but that doesn't stop us from working together in love when we can.

Loving each other is the only mark of discipleship as evidence to the world given by jesus not necessarily beliefs in sacred doctrines.

l agree that beliefs are important to hold the community but love is a greater mark of brotherhood and community than beliefs or sacred doctrines. lt is a stronger force and it abides forever for even beliefs or so called sacred doctrines do change sometimes.

The blue colour!

I don't get your point there,please are you saying God will select some people and infuse his words in their brains to make them BELIEVE him or each individual will have EQUAL chances to listen, meditate and decide what to do?

Maximus69:


The blue colour!

I don't get your point there,please are you saying God will select some people and infuse his words in their brains to make them BELIEVE him or each individual will have EQUAL chances to listen, meditate and decide what to do?

l don't know how God would do it, but the old testament scriptures in Joel and Jeremiah and Malachi seem to indicate that everyone would be taught of God in the last days and they shall all know me from the smallest to the greatest.

jesus seem to agree with this perspective in John 6v44 that everyone who learns from the father and seeks to do his will, would know if his teachings are true or not.
Also jesus says elsewhere to his disciples that they that are not against us are on our side. This is remarkable, because he was referring to people who were only experimenting with his name to cast out demons, they may not have believed every single doctrine about jesus. Yet jesus said they are on his side because they were not against his ministry and were open minded enough to even try some things out

l myself l'm confused and cannot give a direct answer to your question, l'm just stating scriptures that are usually ignored by all forms of mainstream christianity, but puzzling verses nonetheless. What are your interpretation of these verses?

Daejoyoung:

l don't know how God would do it, but the old testament scriptures in Joel and Jeremiah and Malachi seem to indicate that everyone would be taught of God in the last days and they shall all know me from the smallest to the greatest.

jesus seem to agree with this perspective in John 6v44 that everyone who learns from the father and seeks to do his will, would know if his teachings are true or not.
Also jesus says elsewhere to his disciples that they that are not against us are on our side. This is remarkable, because he was referring to people who were only experimenting with his name to cast out demons, they may not have believed every single doctrine about jesus. Yet jesus said they are on his side because they were not against his ministry and were open minded enough to even try some things out

l myself l'm confused and cannot give a direct answer to your question, l'm just stating scriptures that are usually ignored by all forms of mainstream christianity, but puzzling verses nonetheless. What are your interpretation of these verses?

Hello.

Feel free to disregard my response. I am only making it because you raised a common difficulty in the Bible, so I wish to provide a witness for anyone who cares to know the Truth on the matter. As I told you in another conversation, I'm not much for debates these days. I am happy to defend and explain anything I say within reason, but I don't debate for the sake of debating, so if you disagree with my answer, that is fine by me, and I will not pursue the matter further with you.

This is what I believe that you refer to:

13 All your children will be taught by the Lord,
and great will be their peace.
Isaiah 54:13 NIV2011

"The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
Jeremiah 31:31-34 NIV1984

In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.
Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isaiah 2:2-3 NIV1984

In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.
Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Micah 4:1-2 NIV1984

In Joel, you may be referring to 2:28-29, but it doesn't quite say the same things as the above. I'm not sure what part of Malachi you meant.

It is true that the New Testament refers to the times after the Cross as the last days too, so it can be understood why many who interpret the above passages to mean that we don't need pastor-teachers make such an interpretation. But they dispense with what else is said in the context of these passages and with what the rest of the Bible teaches in their interpretation, so they are quite wrong.

Ephesians 4:11-16 are rather unequivocal about how the Church works after the Cross. You find the same teaching in 1 Corinthians 12 too. Because of His Magnificent Victory through the Cross, our Lord gave the Church many spiritual gifts, notable among which are the apostle, the prophet, the pastor-teacher, and the evangelist, in that order (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:28), for the growth or building up of the Church. The apostles and the prophets completed the Revelation of Jesus Christ through their writings that became the New Testament. They are the complements of the prophets of old who also provided part of that Revelation through their own inspired writings. The pastor-teacher is given to the Church to interpret those writings so that those who believe can grow in their faith and become ever more confident in the Lord. The evangelist is given to teach the basic truth of the Gospel to unbelievers and thus bring those who are willing into the Lord's fold. In this way, the Church grows in number and each individual believer who obeys the Lord in this grows to spiritual maturity.

In other words, although we are truly in the last days, there is a bit of a difference between these last days and the last days that Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Micah were talking about, since obviously rather than having pastor-teachers teach anybody anything in those other last days, we see the Lord Himself doing the teaching.

To explain, there are seven millennial days of human history symbolized by and corresponding to the seven actual days of re-creation in Genesis 1. Please understand that those seven days of re-creation did, in fact, happen. That is actually how we can be sure that they were a teaching tool the Lord used to demonstrate His Plan for human history to us. So, the teaching that they are a symbol of the seven thousand years of human history does not at all mean that the Lord did not reconstruct the Universe in seven actual days. He most certainly did.

The Cross occurred at the end of the fourth millennial day and opened the Age of the Church, that is, the time of the rapid expansion of the Church among the Gentiles. Until then, the majority of believers had been Jewish, although there have always been Gentile believers including those from the first two millennia of human history, that is, the Gentile Age, before Israel was created as a nation. With the Cross, however, things sped up significantly and a flood of Gentiles filled the Church. That is why the two thousand years that followed the Cross is called the Church Age. These two millennia of the Church Age are part of the last three millennial days of human history, so they are called the last days too. But they are also called the last days because they will terminate with the Return of the King, the Lord God Himself, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who will return to take His Rightful Place as King over the whole Earth. In other words, the Church Age is the last two days of Satan's rule over the Earth.

But after this Church Age, there will be the Millennium. That is the seventh millennial day of human history. It follows the Resurrection of the Church and the Return of the Head of the Church to complete the Church. When these things happen, Satan's kingdom will be destroyed at Armageddon, and the Reign of the Kingdom of Heaven over the Earth will commence. The Lord and the Resurrected Church will at that time rule over the whole world. It is during this time that the Lord Himself will be teaching the Truth directly to the unresurrected human beings that will live on earth. They will not have the spiritual gifts that the Church was given. They will have the Lord Himself to teach them the Truth.

It is not an error that the prophets lumped the Millennium together with the Church Age. For one thing, the division of the Lord's Advent into two: first as a suffering Servant and later as a conquering King was not clearly shown to them by the Holy Spirit (cf. Luke 10:23-24; 1 Peter 1:10-12). So, even the Church Age and the Millennium are not clearly separated in the Old Testament, at least not without the benefit of the New Testament to show us that there were going to be two Advents of the Lord. For another, the Cross is truly how both the Church (including all believers from Adam and Eve to the last person to believe in Jesus Christ during the Tribulation) and Millennial Believers (also called the Friends of the Bride - and the Bride is the Church) are saved. That is, although the Church is different from Millennial Believers in that she comprises all those who believe before the Second Advent, she is of the same family as Millennial Believers still, so the last three millennial days run together in that way. The main difference is that Millennial Believers will enjoy a world free of Satan's influence and one that is perfectly suited to mortal life, while the Church has to deal with Satan's increasing opposition right up to the moment that her Bridegroom returns to resurrect her and bring her into His Eternal Victory over all of Satan's power in an actualized way.

This difference is why although some of these prophecies are fulfilled to a limited extent with the Ascension and Session of our Lord (for example, the pouring out of the Spirit in Joel 2 and the supernatural things that resulted from that), they will be fully brought to fruition with the establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth at the Return of the Lord Jesus.

So, there is really no confusion. For now and until the Lord returns, those who believe can only learn the Truth by listening to pastor-teachers who have been properly trained in the Truth and who have also prepared themselves through studies in the original languages (ancient Greek, ancient Hebrew, and Aramaic), textual criticism, ancient history, and church history. With these tools, they can help other believers to become able to properly understand what the Bible teaches as a unified system of Truth and arm them against the lies that Satan uses to stunt the growth of believers and stultify their spiritual production for the Lord as well as even cause some to apostatize. When the Lord returns, believers of the Millennial Age will have Him to teach them directly what the Truth is, and without the interference of Satan's activities. This is a product of the Cross too, just as the Church herself is.

Finally, regarding the text that you put in bold, I see nothing in the Bible that suggests that the person whom the Lord told the disciples not to rebuke was only experimenting with His Name. In fact, all that we read is that the disciples reported that they saw a man exorcising evil spirits in the Lord's Name and they told him to stop. We see nothing suggestive of experimenting there. We further read that the Lord tells the disciples that they are not to oppose anyone who is doing anything in His Name. The expression "in His Name" is not often understood today in the same way that it was understood in the days of the New Testament. What it meant to them then and what it means in the Bible is "in [accordance with] His Person." That is, if something is done in anybody's name, it is understood to be done with their approval and by their authority. In other words, the thing is associated with the Person himself or herself. So, how anyone gives a cup of cold water to a believer in the Lord's Name is by giving that believer a cup of cold water because that person belongs to the Lord, that is, the gift is given in recognition of the Lord Who owns that believer. So, it does not mean that whenever someone slaps the label "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" on anything, it is automatically approved by the Lord, no. What it means is that if anything is done in keeping with Who the Lord is and His Sacrifice for us, then that thing has His Approval. If an evil thing is done with the Lord's Name attached to it, it will not have His Approval. It will have His Wrath instead:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Matthew 7:15-23 NIV1984

Daejoyoung:

l don't know how God would do it, but the old testament scriptures in Joel and Jeremiah and Malachi seem to indicate that everyone would be taught of God in the last days and they shall all know me from the smallest to the greatest.

jesus seem to agree with this perspective in John 6v44 that everyone who learns from the father and seeks to do his will, would know if his teachings are true or not.
Also jesus says elsewhere to his disciples that they that are not against us are on our side. This is remarkable, because he was referring to people who were only experimenting with his name to cast out demons, they may not have believed every single doctrine about jesus. Yet jesus said they are on his side because they were not against his ministry and were open minded enough to even try some things out

l myself l'm confused and cannot give a direct answer to your question, l'm just stating scriptures that are usually ignored by all forms of mainstream christianity, but puzzling verses nonetheless. What are your interpretation of these verses?

Well this is why Jehovah's Witnesses stands out as unique amidst all the religious groups claiming Christians!

We make sure to fully grasp each statement of Jesus because without this we can't confidently preach and teach effectively in our neighborhood.

@John 6:44

Jesus meant that all humans are God's children because our first parents were created in God's image. Genesis 1:26-28 compared to Luke 3:38


But ONLY those who holds that image so dearly in their hearts will see reasons with Jesus' teachings while others will feel indifferent or even finds it absorb! Deuteronomy 32:5 compared to Luke 9:41

If you hold God's image dearly in your heart, you will know that what people living around you are doing is contrary to God's will and you'll continue to yearn for a lasting solution {Matthew 5:6} so whenever you see someone preaching or teaching something totally different from other religions, you'll quickly pick interest to get to the root of such teachings {John 6:66-69} and by the end of the day you'll know the TRUTH {John 8:32} that's SCARCE in this wicked generation! Amos 8:11

That's why i keep telling whoever is willing to listen that "there is just one single group belonging to Jesus in this end time"

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

So if they don't agree, i'll tell them
"go and worship your own God anywhere you feel like, but be rest assured that your God can't be the same as mine if you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses"

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

Feel free to disregard my response. I am only making it because you raised a common difficulty in the Bible, so I wish to provide a witness for anyone who cares to know the Truth on the matter. As I told you in another conversation, I'm not much for debates these days. I am happy to defend and explain anything I say within reason, but I don't debate for the sake of debating, so if you disagree with my answer, that is fine by me, and I will not pursue the matter further with you.

This is what I believe that you refer to:

13 All your children will be taught by the Lord,
and great will be their peace.
Isaiah 54:13 NIV2011

"The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
Jeremiah 31:31-34 NIV1984

In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.
Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isaiah 2:2-3 NIV1984

In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.
Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Micah 4:1-2 NIV1984

In Joel, you may be referring to 2:28-29, but it doesn't quite say the same things as the above. I'm not sure what part of Malachi you meant.

It is true that the New Testament refers to the times after the Cross as the last days too, so it can be understood why many who interpret the above passages to mean that we don't need pastor-teachers make such an interpretation. But they dispense with what else is said in the context of these passages and with what the rest of the Bible teaches in their interpretation, so they are quite wrong.

Ephesians 4:11-16 are rather unequivocal about how the Church works after the Cross. You find the same teaching in 1 Corinthians 12 too. Because of His Magnificent Victory through the Cross, our Lord gave the Church many spiritual gifts, notable among which are the apostle, the prophet, the pastor-teacher, and the evangelist, in that order (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:28), for the growth or building up of the Church. The apostles and the prophets completed the Revelation of Jesus Christ through their writings that became the New Testament. They are the complements of the prophets of old who also provided part of that Revelation through their own inspired writings. The pastor-teacher is given to the Church to interpret those writings so that those who believe can grow in their faith and become ever more confident in the Lord. The evangelist is given to teach the basic truth of the Gospel to unbelievers and thus bring those who are willing into the Lord's fold. In this way, the Church grows in number and each individual believer who obeys the Lord in this grows to spiritual maturity.

In other words, although we are truly in the last days, there is a bit of a difference between these last days and the last days that Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Micah were talking about, since obviously rather than having pastor-teachers teach anybody anything in those other last days, we see the Lord Himself doing the teaching.

To explain, there are seven millennial days of human history symbolized by and corresponding to the seven actual days of re-creation in Genesis 1. Please understand that those seven days of re-creation did, in fact, happen. That is actually how we can be sure that they were a teaching tool the Lord used to demonstrate His Plan for human history to us. So, the teaching that they are a symbol of the seven thousand years of human history does not at all mean that the Lord did not reconstruct the Universe in seven actual days. He most certainly did.

The Cross occurred at the end of the fourth millennial day and opened the Age of the Church, that is, the time of the rapid expansion of the Church among the Gentiles. Until then, the majority of believers had been Jewish, although there have always been Gentile believers including those from the first two millennia of human history, that is, the Gentile Age, before Israel was created as a nation. With the Cross, however, things sped up significantly and a flood of Gentiles filled the Church. That is why the two thousand years that followed the Cross is called the Church Age. These two millennia of the Church Age are part of the last three millennial days of human history, so they are called the last days too. But they are also called the last days because they will terminate with the Return of the King, the Lord God Himself, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who will return to take His Rightful Place as King over the whole Earth. In other words, the Church Age is the last two days of Satan's rule over the Earth.

But after this Church Age, there will be the Millennium. That is the seventh millennial day of human history. It follows the Resurrection of the Church and the Return of the Head of the Church to complete the Church. When these things happen, Satan's kingdom will be destroyed at Armageddon, and the Reign of the Kingdom of Heaven over the Earth will commence. The Lord and the Resurrected Church will at that time rule over the whole world. It is during this time that the Lord Himself will be teaching the Truth directly to the unresurrected human beings that will live on earth. They will not have the spiritual gifts that the Church was given. They will have the Lord Himself to teach them the Truth.

It is not an error that the prophets lumped the Millennium together with the Church Age. For one thing, the division of the Lord's Advent into two: first as a suffering Servant and later as a conquering King was not clearly shown to them by the Holy Spirit (cf. Luke 10:23-24; 1 Peter 1:10-12). So, even the Church Age and the Millennium are not clearly separated in the Old Testament, at least not without the benefit of the New Testament to show us that there were going to be two Advents of the Lord. For another, the Cross is truly how both the Church (including all believers from Adam and Eve to the last person to believe in Jesus Christ during the Tribulation) and Millennial Believers (also called the Friends of the Bride - and the Bride is the Church) are saved. That is, although the Church is different from Millennial Believers in that she comprises all those who believe before the Second Advent, she is of the same family as Millennial Believers still, so the last three millennial days run together in that way. The main difference is that Millennial Believers will enjoy a world free of Satan's influence and one that is perfectly suited to mortal life, while the Church has to deal with Satan's increasing opposition right up to the moment that her Bridegroom returns to resurrect her and bring her into His Eternal Victory over all of Satan's power in an actualized way.

This difference is why although some of these prophecies are fulfilled to a limited extent with the Ascension and Session of our Lord (for example, the pouring out of the Spirit in Joel 2 and the supernatural things that resulted from that), they will be fully brought to fruition with the establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth at the Return of the Lord Jesus.

So, there is really no confusion. For now and until the Lord returns, those who believe can only learn the Truth by listening to pastor-teachers who have been properly trained in the Truth and who have also prepared themselves through studies in the original languages (ancient Greek, ancient Hebrew, and Aramaic), textual criticism, ancient history, and church history. With these tools, they can help other believers to become able to properly understand what the Bible teaches as a unified system of Truth and arm them against the lies that Satan uses to stunt the growth of believers and stultify their spiritual production for the Lord as well as even cause some to apostatize. When the Lord returns, believers of the Millennial Age will have Him to teach them directly what the Truth is, and without the interference of Satan's activities. This is a product of the Cross too, just as the Church herself is.

Finally, regarding the text that you put in bold, I see nothing in the Bible that suggests that the person whom the Lord told the disciples not to rebuke was only experimenting with His Name. In fact, all that we read is that the disciples reported that they saw a man exorcising evil spirits in the Lord's Name and they told him to stop. We see nothing suggestive of experimenting there. We further read that the Lord tells the disciples that they are not to oppose anyone who is doing anything in His Name. The expression "in His Name" is not often understood today in the same way that it was understood in the days of the New Testament. What it meant to them then and what it means in the Bible is "in [accordance with] His Person." That is, if something is done in anybody's name, it is understood to be done with their approval and by their authority. In other words, the thing is associated with the Person himself or herself. So, how anyone gives a cup of cold water to a believer in the Lord's Name is by giving that believer a cup of cold water because that person belongs to the Lord, that is, the gift is given in recognition of the Lord Who owns that believer. So, it does not mean that whenever someone slaps the label "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" on anything, it is automatically approved by the Lord, no. What it means is that if anything is done in keeping with Who the Lord is and His Sacrifice for us, then that thing has His Approval. If an evil thing is done with the Lord's Name attached to it, it will not have His Approval. It will have His Wrath instead:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Matthew 7:15-23 NIV1984

ok l agree with much of what you said and l am not here to argue too, just to discuss.

l am not going to speak much about your detailed descriptive theology around those verses and l must commend you on your research on the Joel and Jeremiah verses.

However concerning the verse where jesus said whosoever is not against us is for us, it wasn't my intention to say that anybody who doesn't obey the teachings of christ but call him lord, has become a disciple, no far from it.
My point however was that from the context of that verse, the disciples were trying to exclude those guys simply because they were not part of the team, certainly those guys didn't believe jesus enough to even be part of the seventy disciples at least. But jesus was inclusive here.

Read the gospels, jesus rarely taught people to believe in his so called sacrifice as a sacrifice of substitution appeasing God's wrath as many Christians understand it today, but his major message was the coming of the kingdom of God, which was both political and spiritual and is here with us, not marked by human observation nor is it a physical place but in our midst.

An understanding of the cross is of course vital for salvation but substitutionary atonement is what l have doubt about.
But l digress, perhaps that's a topic for another day.

Anyway thanks for the response and clarification.

Daejoyoung:

ok l agree with much of what you said and l am not here to argue too, just to discuss.

l am not going to speak much about your detailed descriptive theology around those verses and l must commend you on your research on the Joel and Jeremiah verses.

However concerning the verse where jesus said whosoever is not against us is for us, it wasn't my intention to say that anybody who doesn't obey the teachings of christ but call him lord, has become a disciple, no far from it.
My point however was that from the context of that verse, the disciples were trying to exclude those guys simply because they were not part of the team, certainly those guys didn't believe jesus enough to even be part of the seventy disciples at least. But jesus was inclusive here.

Read the gospels, jesus rarely taught people to believe in his so called sacrifice as a sacrifice of substitution appeasing God's wrath as many Christians understand it today, but his major message was the coming of the kingdom of God, which was both political and spiritual and is here with us, not marked by human observation nor is it a physical place but in our midst.

An understanding of the cross is of course vital for salvation but substitutionary atonement is what l have doubt about.
But l digress, perhaps that's a topic for another day.

Anyway thanks for the response and clarification.

@bolded in RED is a misconception Sir!

What Jesus said simply means "Christianity has not yet been firmly established so you can't discriminate for now, as long as the man in question is preaching and teaching in my name he is for you NOT against you. Because you are out there trying to convince people that the Messiah (Christ) has arrived and that's exactly what the other man is doing"

But after Christianity has been fully established at Pentecost, whoever wants to preach, teach or offer any other sacred services in Jesus name must first of all become an affiliate of Jesus' 12 Apostles in Jerusalem! Act 2:42, 9:27

WHY?

Because by that time Jesus has completed the commissioning of Christianity {Matthew 28:18-20, Act 1:7-9} handed it over to the Apostles {Matthew 16:18-19} and God's holy spirit have joined that gathering {Act 2:1-4} a signal that the angel of celestial light who left the holy of holies inside the Temple {Matthew 27:51} has now settled in the midst of Christians, that's why the holy spirit kept energizing them to perform wonders as evidence! Act 3:1-26

That's why it is important for anyone who wants to practice TRUE Christianity today to first ascertain if the group you're associating with are truly following the footsteps of first century Apostles of Christ, otherwise one might end up in the midst of a FAKE group claiming Christians!

Don't be deceived by their Church name!

They may call themselves any name that's similar to what Jesus mentioned at one time or the other, what really matters is the fruit they're bearing! Matthew 7:15-20

If truthfully they're for Jesus, their gathering will yield the qualities of God's holy spirit! Galatians 5:22-23

If not you will only notice that they are worshiping but there will be NO good WORKS coming out of their gathering {James 2:18-26}

There worship will be FRUITLESS! 2Timothy 3:5

.

objectivechrist:
MISHIGAS!



THE SCRIPTURES OF THE BIBLE WERE MOSTLY WRITTEN BY HEBREWS, FOR THE UNDERSTANDING OF HEBREWS WITH THE EXCEPTIONS.

For instance, the Epistles of PAUL, which were written to deceive the Gentile Christians, according to the SHECHEM PROTOCOLS of GENESIS 34.

All of the Hebrew Christians, including the Disciples, felt that it was their Right and Duty to deceive the Gentiles, and cause them to fail.

That was the way the Ancients Thought- what we call "Cheating," today, was allowed, even expected in "Sporting" Competitions back then.

It was regarded as "Normal Behavior."

Lord Yeshua went against what they had been taught their whole lives. That is why not one of those braggarts could follow him to the Cross.

.     EXODUS 20:1-7.

AND God Spake
all these Words,
Saying,

2. "I (am) The LORD thy God,
Which have brought thee
out of The Land of Egypt,
out of The House of Bondage.

3. "Thou shalt have
no other gods before Me.

4. "Thou shalt not
make unto thee
any graven image,
or any likeness (of any thing)
that (is) in the Earth beneath,
or that (is) in the Water
under the Earth:
5. "Thou shalt not
bow down thyself to them,
nor serve them:
for I The LORD thy God
(am) a Jealous God,
visiting the iniquity
of the fathers
upon the third
and fourth (generation)
of them that Hate Me.
6. "And shewing Mercy
unto thousands of them
which Love Me,
and Keep My Commandments.

7. "Thou shalt not
take The Name
of The LORD thy God
in vain;
for The LORD will not
hold him guiltless
that taketh His Name
in vain."

YOUR GREAT-GRANDPARENTS TAUGHT YOUR GRANDPARENTS; YOUR GRANDPARENTS TAUGHT YOUR PARENTS; AND YOUR PARENTS TAUGHT YOU HOW TO BE RUDE AGAINST GOD, AND HOW TO OFFEND AGAINST HIS KINGDOM.

God was never The God of your Ancestors. You never grew up learning The Way of God, and never had any idea of what The TRUE Requirements of Worshipping and Serving God are.

. DEUTERONOMY 6:4-9.

4. Hear, O Israel:
The LORD our God
is one LORD:
5. And thou shalt love
The LORD thy God
with all thine Heart,
and with all thy Soul,
and with all thy might.
6. And these Words,
which I Command thee this day,
shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach Them
diligently unto thy children,
and shalt talk of Them
when thou sittest
in thine house,
and when thou walkest
by the way,
and when thou liest down,
and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind Them
for a sign upon thine hand,
and they shall be as frontlets
between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write Them
upon the posts of thy house,
and on thy gates.

EVERY HUMAN IS OBLIGED TO RECOGNIZE GOD, AND TO LOVE HIM TO THE MAXIMUM OF THEIR EVERY FACULTY.

You have no conception of what that is. All you know is what Deceitful Self-Justifiers taught you.

All they taught you is to serve them. Not God.



BOASTING OF THE EFFORT EXPENDED IN THE SERVICE OF EVIL DOES NOT MAKE IT GOOD.

. EXODUS 23:1-9.

"THOU shalt not
raise a False Report:
put not thine hand
with The Wicked
to be an Unrighteous Witness.
2. "Thou shalt not
follow a Multitude
to do Evil;
neither shalt thou
speak in a cause
to Decline after Many
to Wrest (Judgment):
3. "Neither shalt thou
countenance a poor man
in his cause.
4. "If thou meet
thine Enemy's ox
or his ass going astray,
thou shalt surely
bring it back to him again.
5. " If thou see
the ox or the ass
of him that hateth thee
lying under his burden,
and wouldest forbear
to help him,
thou shalt surely
help with him.
6. "Thou shalt not wrest
the judgment of thy poor
in his cause.
7. "Keep thee far
from a false matter;
and the Innocent
and Righteous
Slay thou not:
for I will not
Justify The Wicked.
8. "And thou shalt
take no Gift:
for the Gift
blindeth the Wise,
and perverteth the Words
of The Righteous.
9. "Thou shalt not
Oppress a Stranger:
for ye know
the heart of a Stranger,
seeing ye were Strangers
in the land of Egypt."

THE JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES ARE TRAINED TO COMMIT VIOLATIONS OF MOST, IF NOT ALL OF THESE COMMANDMENTS.

Just as the Hebrew Christians used them against the Gentile Christians (see: ACTS 15).

It is a cowardly way of operating- to play on people's ignorance.


.. LUKE 16:1-15.

AND he Said also
unto his Disciples,

"There was
a certain rich man,
which had a steward;
and the same
was accused unto him
that he had wasted his goods.
2. "And he called him,
and said unto him,

'HOW IS IT THAT
I HEAR THIS OF THEE?
GIVE AN ACCOUNT
OF THY STEWARDSHIP;
FOR THOU MAYEST BE
NO LONGER STEWARD.'

3. "Then the steward said
within himself,

'WHAT SHALL I DO?
FOR MY LORD
TAKETH AWAY FROM ME
THE STEWARDSHIP:
I CANNOT DIG,
TO BEG I AM ASHAMED.
4. 'I AM RESOLVED
WHAT TO DO,
THAT, WHEN I AM
PUT OUT OF THE STEWARDSHIP,
THEY MAY RECEIVE ME
INTO THEIR HOUSES.'

5. "So he called every one
of his lord's debtors unto him,
and said unto the first,

'HOW MUCH OWEST THOU
UNTO MY LORD?'

6. "And he said,

'AN HUNDRED MEASURES OF OIL.'

And he said unto him,

'TAKE THY BILL,
AND SIT DOWN QUICKLY,
AND WRITE FIFTY.'

7. "Then said he to another,

'AND HOW MUCH
OWEST THOU?'

And he said,

'AN HUNDRED MEASURES OF WHEAT.'

And he said unto him,

'TAKE THY BILL,
AND WRITE FOURSCORE.'

8. "And the lord commended
the Unjust Steward,
because he had done wisely:
for The Children of this World
are in their Generation
wiser than
The Children of Light.
9. "And I Say unto you,

'MAKE TO YOURSELVES FRIENDS
OF THE MAMMON
OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS;
THAT, WHEN YE FAIL,
THEY MAY RECIEVE YOU
INTO EVERLASTING HABITATIONS.'

10. "He that is Faithful
in that which is Least
is Faithful also in Much:
and he that is Unjust
in the Least
is Unjust also in Much.
11. "If therefore ye
have not been Faithful
in the Unrighteous Mammon,
who will commit to your trust
The True Riches?
12. "And if ye have not
been Faithful
in that which is
another man's,
who shall give you
that which is your own?
13. "No Servant can
serve two Masters:
for either he will
hate the one,
and love the other;
or else he will
hold to the one,
and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and Mammon."

14. And the Pharisees also,
who were Covetous,
heard all these things,
and they derided him.
15. And he Said unto them,

"Ye are they
which justify yourselves
before Men;
but God knoweth
your hearts:
for that which is
Highly Esteemed
amongst Men
is Abomination
in The Sight of God."

THE BASIS OF YOUR ASSOCIATION TOGETHER, IS THAT YOU ALL AGREE TO COMMIT AND JUSTIFY THE SAME SINS TOGETHER!



THERE CAN BE ONLY TWO CAUSE OF A CONTROVERSY ONE IS RIGHT, AND THE OTHER IS WRONG- OR ELSE BOTH ARE WRONG!


. LEVITICUS 19:16-18.

16. "Thou shalt not
go up and down
as a Talebearer
among thy people:
neither shalt thou
stand against
the Blood of thy Neighbour:
I am The LORD.
17. "Thou shalt not
Hate thy Brother
in thine heart:
thou shalt in any wise
rebuke thy Neighbour,
and not suffer Sin upon him.
18. "Thou shalt not Avenge,
nor bear any Grudge
against the Children
of thy people,
but thou shalt
Love thy Neighbour
as thyself:
I am The LORD."

IT IS THE DUTY OF BRETHREN TO REBUKE ANY BRETHREN WHO ARE WRONG.

. MATTHEW 18:15-20.

15. "Moreover if thy Brother
shall trespass against thee,
go and tell him his fault
between thee and him alone:
if he shall hear thee,
thou hast gained thy Brother.
16. "But if he will not hear thee,
then take with thee one or two more,

[i]'THAT IN THE MOUTH
OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES
EVERY WORD
MAY BE ESTABLISHED.'

17. "And if he shall
neglect to hear them,
tell it unto the Church:
but if he neglect
to hear the Church,
let him be unto thee
as an Heathen man and a Publican.
18. "Verily I Say unto you,

'WHATSOEVER YE SHALL
BIND ON EARTH
SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN:
AND WHATSOEVER YE SHALL
LOOSE ON EARTH
SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN.'

19. "Again I Say unto you,

'THAT IF TWO OF YOU
SHALL AGREE ON EARTH
AS TOUCHING ANY THING
THAT THEY SHALL ASK,
IT SHALL BE DONE FOR THEM
OF MY FATHER
WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.'

20. "For where two or three
are gathered together
in my Name,
there am I
in the midst of them."

WHEN SOMEONE WHOM LORD YESHUA DIED FOR IS MESSING UP, IT IS THE DUTY OF THE RIGHTEOUS BRETHREN TO INTERVENE, AND TELL THEM EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG!

No one has the Right to Stand Against their Blood- saying nothing, while SATAN carries them away!



WHY SHOULD ONE WHO IS RIGHT YIELD TO ONE WHO IS WRONG?

Is that what you do in your Cabal? If someone contradicts the Teachings of your Ruling Coven, do you yield to them, or do you not ostracise them, and expel them from your midst, and tell all your Brethren, even their own family, not to talk to them any more?

Who has not heard of the JEHOVSH'S WITLESSES [i]SHUNNING practice?

When CHARLES TROMBLEY took his daughter to a Charismatic Church to be prayed for, because Jehovah's Witless Elders could do nothing, and she was miraculously Healed of her club foot, HE WAS TOLD THAT THE MIRACLE WAS "THE WORK OF THE DEVIL," AND SUMMARILY EXPELLED!

All the "Good Works" of Service he had been told would be recorded forever in The Kingdom of God WERE SUMMARILY ERASED.

That Promise is a LIE.

That is what you fear that they will do to you yourself, should you deviate from the party-line!

. DEUTERONOMY 25:1-4.

IF there be
a controversy between men,
and they come unto judgment,
that the judges
may judge them;
then they shall justify the Righteous,
and condemn the Wicked.
2. And it shall be,
if the Wicked man
be worthy to be beaten,
that the judge shall cause him
to lie down,
and to be beaten
before his face,
according to his fault,
by a certain number.
3. Forty stripes
he may give him,
and not exceed:
lest, if he should exceed,
and beat him above these
with many stripes,
then thy Brother
should seem vile unto thee.
4. Thou shalt not muzzle the ox
when he treadeth out (the corn).

All Humans Exist on Eight Dynamic Levels in Forty Levels of Awareness:

. b] THE EIGHT DYNAMICS.[/b]

1. SELF; 2. FAMILY;
3. GROUPS; 4. ALL MANKIND;
5. ALL LIVING THINGS;
6. THE MEST (Matter, Energy, Space, Time - i.e. PHYSICAL) UNIVERSE;
7. SPIRITS; 8. GOD.

[See: THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THOUGHT, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

. THE FORTY AWARENESS LEVELS.

40. SERENITY
30. POSTULATES
22. GAMES
20. ACTION
8.0 EXHILARATION
6.0 AESTHETICS
4.0 ENTHUSIASM
3.5 CHEERFULNESS
3.0 CONSERVATISM
2.5 BOREDOM
2.0 OVERT HOSTILITY
1.8 PAIN
1.5 ANGER
1.4 HATE
1.2 NO SYMPATHY
1.1 COVERT HOSTILITY
1.0 FEAR
0.9 SYMPATHY
0.5 GRIEF
0.1 APATHY
0.0 BODY DEATH.

[See: SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL: The Prediction of Human Behaviour, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

. THE AWARENESS LEVELS REQUIRED TO COMMAND THE DYNAMICS.

8. SELF; 12. GROUPS;
15. ALL MANKIND;
22. MEST UNIVERSE; 32. SPIRITS;
40. GOD.

[See: THE DYNAMICS AND TONE SCALE, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

YOU PEOPLE ARE IN CONTROVERSY AGAINST THE TRUE BELIEVERS, AND YOU HAVE BEEN JUDGED, AND STRIPES HAVE BEEN LAID UPON EACH OF YOU.

That is why you are hateful, angry, covertly and overtly hostile, and cowardly.

That is why you have no Spiritual Power.

You have no problem Sir!

Nobody needs this your lengthy epistle here!


Just go out there to preach and teach what you know about God, Jesus and the holy spirit.Matthew 28:18-20


Those who accept your teaching will exhibit some habits, that will serve as the result of your preaching and teaching, if you're for God or against God! Matthew 7:16-18

Jehovah's Witnesses have been up and doing for almost 140 years now and throughout the earth people can say one thing or another about them, so you and your folks should try inculcate what you know in the hearts of your followers, your FAITH will be examined by your WORKS! James 2:18-26

Thanks!

MISHIGAS!

Maximus69:

This is the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of the scripture you quoted above!

THE SCRIPTURES OF THE BIBLE WERE MOSTLY WRITTEN BY HEBREWS, FOR THE UNDERSTANDING OF HEBREWS WITH THE EXCEPTIONS.

For instance, the Epistles of PAUL, which were written to deceive the Gentile Christians, according to the SHECHEM PROTOCOLS of GENESIS 34.

All of the Hebrew Christians, including the Disciples, felt that it was their Right and Duty to deceive the Gentiles, and cause them to fail.

That was the way the Ancients Thought- what we call "Cheating," today, was allowed, even expected in "Sporting" Competitions back then.

It was regarded as "Normal Behavior."

Lord Yeshua went against what they had been taught their whole lives. That is why not one of those braggarts could follow him to the Cross.

.     EXODUS 20:1-7.

AND God Spake
all these Words,
Saying,

2. "I (am) The LORD thy God,
Which have brought thee
out of The Land of Egypt,
out of The House of Bondage.

3. "Thou shalt have
no other gods before Me.

4. "Thou shalt not
make unto thee
any graven image,
or any likeness (of any thing)
that (is) in the Earth beneath,
or that (is) in the Water
under the Earth:
5. "Thou shalt not
bow down thyself to them,
nor serve them:
for I The LORD thy God
(am) a Jealous God,
visiting the iniquity
of the fathers
upon the third
and fourth (generation)
of them that Hate Me.
6. "And shewing Mercy
unto thousands of them
which Love Me,
and Keep My Commandments.

7. "Thou shalt not
take The Name
of The LORD thy God
in vain;
for The LORD will not
hold him guiltless
that taketh His Name
in vain."

YOUR GREAT-GRANDPARENTS TAUGHT YOUR GRANDPARENTS; YOUR GRANDPARENTS TAUGHT YOUR PARENTS; AND YOUR PARENTS TAUGHT YOU HOW TO BE RUDE AGAINST GOD, AND HOW TO OFFEND AGAINST HIS KINGDOM.

God was never The God of your Ancestors. You never grew up learning The Way of God, and never had any idea of what The TRUE Requirements of Worshipping and Serving God are.

. DEUTERONOMY 6:4-9.

4. Hear, O Israel:
The LORD our God
is one LORD:
5. And thou shalt love
The LORD thy God
with all thine Heart,
and with all thy Soul,
and with all thy might.
6. And these Words,
which I Command thee this day,
shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach Them
diligently unto thy children,
and shalt talk of Them
when thou sittest
in thine house,
and when thou walkest
by the way,
and when thou liest down,
and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind Them
for a sign upon thine hand,
and they shall be as frontlets
between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write Them
upon the posts of thy house,
and on thy gates.

EVERY HUMAN IS OBLIGED TO RECOGNIZE GOD, AND TO LOVE HIM TO THE MAXIMUM OF THEIR EVERY FACULTY.

You have no conception of what that is. All you know is what Deceitful Self-Justifiers taught you.

All they taught you is to serve them. Not God.

Maximus69:

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, i'm only preaching within my neighborhood and reporting 20~30 hours monthly.
Meanwhile a fellow JW was so zealous that he left his homeland China to help in places where there are fewer JWs, reporting over 100 hours monthly. The boasting of this Chinese shouldn't be that he's comparing my achievement to his own, but that our Lord, Master and King (Jesus Christ) has been the one doing the work through him! Philemon 7

BOASTING OF THE EFFORT EXPENDED IN THE SERVICE OF EVIL DOES NOT MAKE IT GOOD.

. EXODUS 23:1-9.

"THOU shalt not
raise a False Report:
put not thine hand
with The Wicked
to be an Unrighteous Witness.
2. "Thou shalt not
follow a Multitude
to do Evil;
neither shalt thou
speak in a cause
to Decline after Many
to Wrest (Judgment):
3. "Neither shalt thou
countenance a poor man
in his cause.
4. "If thou meet
thine Enemy's ox
or his ass going astray,
thou shalt surely
bring it back to him again.
5. " If thou see
the ox or the ass
of him that hateth thee
lying under his burden,
and wouldest forbear
to help him,
thou shalt surely
help with him.
6. "Thou shalt not wrest
the judgment of thy poor
in his cause.
7. "Keep thee far
from a false matter;
and the Innocent
and Righteous
Slay thou not:
for I will not
Justify The Wicked.
8. "And thou shalt
take no Gift:
for the Gift
blindeth the Wise,
and perverteth the Words
of The Righteous.
9. "Thou shalt not
Oppress a Stranger:
for ye know
the heart of a Stranger,
seeing ye were Strangers
in the land of Egypt."

THE JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES ARE TRAINED TO COMMIT VIOLATIONS OF MOST, IF NOT ALL OF THESE COMMANDMENTS.

Just as the Hebrew Christians used them against the Gentile Christians (see: ACTS 15).

It is a cowardly way of operating- to play on people's ignorance.


.. LUKE 16:1-15.

AND he Said also
unto his Disciples,

"There was
a certain rich man,
which had a steward;
and the same
was accused unto him
that he had wasted his goods.
2. "And he called him,
and said unto him,

'HOW IS IT THAT
I HEAR THIS OF THEE?
GIVE AN ACCOUNT
OF THY STEWARDSHIP;
FOR THOU MAYEST BE
NO LONGER STEWARD.'

3. "Then the steward said
within himself,

'WHAT SHALL I DO?
FOR MY LORD
TAKETH AWAY FROM ME
THE STEWARDSHIP:
I CANNOT DIG,
TO BEG I AM ASHAMED.
4. 'I AM RESOLVED
WHAT TO DO,
THAT, WHEN I AM
PUT OUT OF THE STEWARDSHIP,
THEY MAY RECEIVE ME
INTO THEIR HOUSES.'

5. "So he called every one
of his lord's debtors unto him,
and said unto the first,

'HOW MUCH OWEST THOU
UNTO MY LORD?'

6. "And he said,

'AN HUNDRED MEASURES OF OIL.'

And he said unto him,

'TAKE THY BILL,
AND SIT DOWN QUICKLY,
AND WRITE FIFTY.'

7. "Then said he to another,

'AND HOW MUCH
OWEST THOU?'

And he said,

'AN HUNDRED MEASURES OF WHEAT.'

And he said unto him,

'TAKE THY BILL,
AND WRITE FOURSCORE.'

8. "And the lord commended
the Unjust Steward,
because he had done wisely:
for The Children of this World
are in their Generation
wiser than
The Children of Light.
9. "And I Say unto you,

'MAKE TO YOURSELVES FRIENDS
OF THE MAMMON
OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS;
THAT, WHEN YE FAIL,
THEY MAY RECIEVE YOU
INTO EVERLASTING HABITATIONS.'

10. "He that is Faithful
in that which is Least
is Faithful also in Much:
and he that is Unjust
in the Least
is Unjust also in Much.
11. "If therefore ye
have not been Faithful
in the Unrighteous Mammon,
who will commit to your trust
The True Riches?
12. "And if ye have not
been Faithful
in that which is
another man's,
who shall give you
that which is your own?
13. "No Servant can
serve two Masters:
for either he will
hate the one,
and love the other;
or else he will
hold to the one,
and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and Mammon."

14. And the Pharisees also,
who were Covetous,
heard all these things,
and they derided him.
15. And he Said unto them,

"Ye are they
which justify yourselves
before Men;
but God knoweth
your hearts:
for that which is
Highly Esteemed
amongst Men
is Abomination
in The Sight of God."

THE BASIS OF YOUR ASSOCIATION TOGETHER, IS THAT YOU ALL AGREE TO COMMIT AND JUSTIFY THE SAME SINS TOGETHER!

Maximus69:

But in this case, two trinitarians are bitterly furious towards each other, and what's the cause of their rift?

THERE CAN BE ONLY TWO CAUSES OF A CONTROVERSY: ONE IS RIGHT, AND THE OTHER IS WRONG- OR ELSE BOTH ARE WRONG!

. LEVITICUS 19:16-18.

16. "Thou shalt not
go up and down
as a Talebearer
among thy people:
neither shalt thou
stand against
the Blood of thy Neighbour:
I am The LORD.
17. "Thou shalt not
Hate thy Brother
in thine heart:
thou shalt in any wise
rebuke thy Neighbour,
and not suffer Sin upon him.
18. "Thou shalt not Avenge,
nor bear any Grudge
against the Children
of thy people,
but thou shalt
Love thy Neighbour
as thyself:
I am The LORD."

IT IS THE DUTY OF BRETHREN TO REBUKE ANY BRETHREN WHO ARE WRONG.

. MATTHEW 18:15-20.

15. "Moreover if thy Brother
shall trespass against thee,
go and tell him his fault
between thee and him alone:
if he shall hear thee,
thou hast gained thy Brother.
16. "But if he will not hear thee,
then take with thee one or two more,

'THAT IN THE MOUTH
OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES
EVERY WORD
MAY BE ESTABLISHED.'

17. "And if he shall
neglect to hear them,
tell it unto the Church:
but if he neglect
to hear the Church,
let him be unto thee
as an Heathen man and a Publican.
18. "Verily I Say unto you,

'WHATSOEVER YE SHALL
BIND ON EARTH
SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN:
AND WHATSOEVER YE SHALL
LOOSE ON EARTH
SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN.'

19. "Again I Say unto you,

'THAT IF TWO OF YOU
SHALL AGREE ON EARTH
AS TOUCHING ANY THING
THAT THEY SHALL ASK,
IT SHALL BE DONE FOR THEM
OF MY FATHER
WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.'

20. "For where two or three
are gathered together
in my Name,
there am I
in the midst of them."

WHEN SOMEONE WHOM LORD YESHUA DIED FOR IS MESSING UP, IT IS THE DUTY OF THE RIGHTEOUS BRETHREN TO INTERVENE, AND TELL THEM EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG!

No one has the Right to Stand Against their Blood- saying nothing, while SATAN carries them away!

Maximus69:

No one is ready to succumb to the resolve of the other on scriptural issues!

WHY SHOULD ONE WHO IS RIGHT YIELD TO ONE WHO IS WRONG?

Is that what you do in your Cabal? If someone contradicts the Teachings of your Ruling Coven, do you yield to them, or do you not ostracise them, and expel them from your midst, and tell all your Brethren, even their own family, not to talk to them any more?

Who has not heard of the JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES SHUNNING practice?

When CHARLES TROMBLEY took his daughter to a Charismatic Church to be prayed for, because Jehovah's Witless Elders could do nothing, and she was miraculously Healed of her club foot, HE WAS TOLD THAT THE MIRACLE WAS "THE WORK OF THE DEVIL," AND SUMMARILY EXPELLED!

[See: KICKED OUT OF THE KINGDOM, by Charles Trombley.]

All the "Good Works" of Service he had been told would be recorded forever in The Kingdom of God WERE SUMMARILY ERASED.

That Promise is a LIE.

That is what you fear that they will do to you yourself, should you deviate from the party-line!

. DEUTERONOMY 25:1-4.

IF there be
a controversy between men,
and they come unto judgment,
that the judges
may judge them;
then they shall justify the Righteous,
and condemn the Wicked.
2. And it shall be,
if the Wicked man
be worthy to be beaten,
that the judge shall cause him
to lie down,
and to be beaten
before his face,
according to his fault,
by a certain number.
3. Forty stripes
he may give him,
and not exceed:
lest, if he should exceed,
and beat him above these
with many stripes,
then thy Brother
should seem vile unto thee.
4. Thou shalt not
muzzle the ox
when he treadeth out
(the corn).

All Humans Exist on Eight Dynamic Levels in Forty Levels of Awareness:

. b] THE EIGHT DYNAMICS.[/b]

1. SELF; 2. FAMILY;
3. GROUPS; 4. ALL MANKIND;
5. ALL LIVING THINGS;
6. THE MEST (Matter, Energy, Space, Time - i.e. PHYSICAL) UNIVERSE;
7. SPIRITS; 8. GOD.

[See: THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THOUGHT, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

. THE FORTY AWARENESS LEVELS.

40. SERENITY
30. POSTULATES
22. GAMES
20. ACTION
8.0 EXHILARATION
6.0 AESTHETICS
4.0 ENTHUSIASM
3.5 CHEERFULNESS
3.0 CONSERVATISM
2.5 BOREDOM
2.0 OVERT HOSTILITY
1.8 PAIN
1.5 ANGER
1.4 HATE
1.2 NO SYMPATHY
1.1 COVERT HOSTILITY
1.0 FEAR
0.9 SYMPATHY
0.5 GRIEF
0.1 APATHY
0.0 BODY DEATH.

[See: SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL: The Prediction of Human Behaviour, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

. THE AWARENESS LEVELS REQUIRED TO COMMAND THE DYNAMICS.

8. SELF; 12. GROUPS;
15. ALL MANKIND;
22. MEST UNIVERSE; 32. SPIRITS;
40. GOD.

[See: THE DYNAMICS AND TONE SCALE, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

YOU PEOPLE ARE IN CONTROVERSY AGAINST THE TRUE BELIEVERS, AND YOU HAVE BEEN JUDGED, AND STRIPES HAVE BEEN LAID UPON EACH OF YOU.

. LUKE 12:35-48.

34. "For where
your Treasure is,
there will your heart
be also.
35. "Let your loins
be girded about,
and your lights burning;
36. "And ye yourselves
like unto men
that wait for their lord,
when he will return
from the wedding;
that when he cometh
and knocketh,
they may open unto him immediately.
37. "Blessed are
those servants,
whom the lord
when he cometh
shall find watching:
verily I Say unto you,

'THAT HE SHALL
GIRD HIMSELF,
AND MAKE THEM
SIT DOWN TO MEAT,
AND WILL COME FORTH
AND SERVE THEM.'

38. "And if he shall come
in the Second Watch,
or come in the Third Watch,
and find them so,
blessed are those servants.
39. "And this know,

'THAT IF THE GOODMAN
OF THE HOUSE HAD KNOWN
WHAT HOUR
THE THIEF WOULD COME
HE WOULD HAVE WATCHED,
AND NOT SUFFERED
HIS HOUSE TO BE
BROKEN THROUGH.'

40. "Be ye therefore ready also:
for The Son of Man cometh
at an hour when ye think not."

41. Then Peter said unto him,

"Lord, Speakest thou this Parable unto us,
or even to all?"

42. And the Lord Said,

"Who then is that faithful
and wise steward,
whom his lord
shall make ruler
over his household,
to give them
their portion of meat
in due season?
43. "Blessed is that Servant,
whom his lord when he cometh
shall find so doing.
44. Of a Truth I Say unto you,

'THAT HE WILL
MAKE HIM RULER
OVER ALL
THAT HE HATH.'

45. "But and if that servant
say in his heart

,'MY LORD DELAYETH
HIS COMING;'

and shall begin to beat
the menservants and maidens,
and to eat and drink,
and to be drunken;
46. "The lord of that servant
will come in a day
when he looketh not for him,
and at an hour
when he is not aware,
and will cut him in sunder,
and will appoint him
his portion
with the unbelievers.
47. "And that servant,
which knew his lord's will,
and prepared not himself,
neither did
according to his will,
shall be beaten
with many stripes.
48. "But he that knew not,
and did commit things
worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten
with few stripes.
For unto whomsoever
much is given,
of him shall be
much required:
and to whom men
have committed much,
of him they will
ask the more."

WHEN WE COMMIT SIN, THE DEVIL IS ENABLED TO REMOVE LEVELS OF OUR SPIRITUAL ENERGY RESERVE, PROPORTIONAL TO OUR SIN.

That is why you are hateful, angry, covertly and overtly hostile, and cowardly.

That is why you and your "Church" have no Spiritual Power.

[To be Continued.]