| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Daejoyoung: 8:49am On Dec 31, 2019 |
themonk:
Which of these two should go against your nature?
1) Forgiving and forgetting someone’s sins without repercussion.
2) Sending your son to die on the cross in a horrendous manner so you can forgive humans.
Is this even a question?
Human sacrifice that incurred more sins from those who sacrificed Jesus. I mean this is a God who encouraged slavery in this book you speak of, encourage some tribes of humans to go and kill other tribes even though he supposedly created both of them but he loved one more, this is unjust isn’t it? The Bible cannot be a moral compass, I mean Christians that have the guts to even argue irk me. I don’t like to argue with people about religion but I’m so concerned when people try to convince others it is a moral compass or a coherent, informative and infallible book of justice. Stick to your religion and just believe that things you see there you will get to understand later. Except you have any esoteric knowledge about the Bible or you read another bible different from the one I read or you just ignore the holes like most people do please just have faith that what you believe will be just and truthful and at the appointed time God will reveal everything to you.
Yes, miracles and divine manifestations work through the Bible but it also worked through ancient religions. In Igbo land they where bad and good native doctors and in Christianity there are pastors that kill their enemies and even neighbors and pastors that don’t. Some might argue that these pastors are possessed by evil spirits lol, these people haven’t read the Old Testament. The thing is if you are smart enough this should tell you that this thing is deeper than you can imagine. Go out and do research and compare what you believe with reality, theoretical and arm-chair Bible arguments don’t work.
All my life I’ve always questioned why things happen and try to compare what happens with theories the Bible proposed and it has never matched up. I am not saying the Bible is wrong, I’m just saying I’ve not found any reason for it to be right. Please let this not discourage you from being a christian, just don’t be a sheep. If you are stimulated by your spirit to ask questions ask them, if not please don’t, maybe it’s your destiny to take the blue pill and not the red one. ok let me narrate to you what l understand about the death of jesus and God's forgiveness. When you study the entire bible, you would see that there are three aspects to sin interwoven: 1) Our personal daily sins- The most common type of sin, which is simply breaking of God's commandments as well as lack of love. This is the one you said God can just forgive and that is true. God forgives us inasmuch as we repent and forgive others who sin against us. 2) Sin as a State: This is simply our mortality due to the fall of man, we are simply flesh and we are prone to errors, because we are mortal also we die. All humans are in a state of adamic sin, we cannot escape from this type of sin until the resurrection age( the age to come), but we have the Holyspirit to help us live above this state, while still in this world, to a large extent. 3)Collective/Unintentional Sins: This is sin that could come from yourself alone, but the power of this sin is when it comes mostly from others around you and in your community. The collective guilt of the world or our nation affects us all the time. ln lsaiah 53, because of this sin, the innocent suffering servant of God was also affected and died. As a nation, according to the myth in Exodus of how the Israelites became a nation, a lamb was responsible for their salvation. Because of the lamb, Israel did not remain under slavery and also they were not made extinct by the angel of death. Fast forward 1600 years later, after jesus died. The disciples who were once convinced that jesus is the messaiah, did not let go even after his crucifixion, then they began to see that the lamb was like a prophecy of jesus. The way the lamb saved the nation as a whole through it's death is a pointer to jesus who gave himself up to the Romans as a ransom so that his followers ( a new nation) may be formed. The phrase by the Angel to Mary: "And he shall save his people from their sin" refers to this salvation of the nation ( and by extension) the world from slavery, exile, and sufferings which are the effects of this type of sin. lt was believed that because of the collective guilt of the lsrael, everyone was suffering under Roman oppression, and even jesus their messaiah representing them also died not because he partook in their sins but in every way he was made like his brothers. According to early Christian thinking then, jesus death hath formed a new remnant of lsrael that survived. The new covenant has been established by this sacrifice of himself to the enemy as prophesied by the lamb on passover which established both lsrael as a nation and that old covenant. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by DeepSight(m): 8:49am On Dec 31, 2019 |
Roycemadeit:
Incredible but wait.
Who is defining what sin is?
There's nothing like sin, what there is, is that which doesn't serve our highest interest.
And yet again every religion strongly believe theirs is the only way to God.
Separatism breeds Chaos.
God's wish is for us to come to this understanding that you and I are one, that we are not separate but one, whatsoever I do, should be in best thought of us.
Well said. I think the last line hints at a moral standard though. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by k4kenny(f): 8:54am On Dec 31, 2019 |
midnighter:
Sins need to be punished. If you understand God as much as you claim to, you should understand that its against His nature to abide with sin. Forgiveness is not the point. He can forgive you but He still needs the sin to be paid for. Are you saying that your parents simply "forgave" you all the time when you were growing up, with no consequences?
You shouldnt use emotive language like "conditional forgiveness" and "revenge" to try to distract away from the point. God is a just god and feels righteous anger against sin and iniquity.
Your second paragraph is not closely connected enough with what we were discussing to warrant a response from me unless you can explain how it is relevant. I did not deny the existence of errors or inconsistencies in my previous post so I dont understand what you wrote there. We were created with imperfections. It's on our natural disposition to falter once in a while. But God is kind, merciful, forgiving and accepts sincere repentance. All you need to do is repent and try as hard as possible not to fall into that sin again. Even if you do, there's still room for repentance as long as you're alive and sincere in your intention. Yes, my parents and people I've offended have forgiven my offences as I have also forgiven those who offended without attaching any conditions or punishment. Anyone who's forgiveness is based on punishment or retribution is nothing but a vindictive and horrible person. Are you? If you buy a device and the manual is filled with errors and items inconsistent with the device you've purchased, would you be convinced that it's the manufacturer that wrote the manual? Anyone without sound knowledge of the product could have sneaked the manual into the package. Such is the case of the bible. Why would you call a book with errors was inspired by God. God is not the author of confusion. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Roycemadeit(m): 8:59am On Dec 31, 2019 |
DeepSight:
Profound, incisive, brilliant at once and also poetic.
Two questions strike me here and please oblige me -
1. What informs your reference to God in the feminine.
To think God is one thing, then you will think God is not another. And that would be a large mistake. God is everything.  DeepSight:
2. Please can you share your background in terms of philosophy and what writings, if any, have influenced your current take on the meaning of life. Also if you belong to any group or spiritual/ philosophical persuasion.
[ |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Roycemadeit(m): 9:03am On Dec 31, 2019 |
DeepSight:
In terms of the existence of souls, I would stretch that further - we are probably talking not just zillions of years - but such an unquantifiable stretch of time that is beyond the capacity of the mortal mind to grasp.
This is with the proviso though, that time is not an illusion - and it just very well might be. Indeed, almost certainly is. Time is an illusion. There is no past or present or future. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Daejoyoung: 9:09am On Dec 31, 2019 |
If you buy a device and the manual is filled with errors and items inconsistent with the device you've purchased, would you be convinced that it's the manufacturer that wrote the manual? Anyone without sound knowledge of the product could have sneaked the manual into the package. Such is the case of the bible. Why would you call a book with errors was inspired by God. God is not the author of confusion . k4kenny, we write things with errors every day, we also compose music that may have errors, but it doesn't mean that we are not inspired by something powerful. There is no evidence that God ever authored a book in this world, but the love of God inspires men to write about God and such writings can be useful for our learning. 1 Like |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Roycemadeit(m): 9:09am On Dec 31, 2019 |
DeepSight:
Once I saw this post, i recognized at once that someone with a more profound grasp of life than usual was speaking. This was heart warming, for it is rare to see, within the dross and dim spectrum of light available in most of the world today. So thank you.
However as you have caught my interest, pardon me as I will have a few questions. I'll start with what you have hinted at up there - namely - moral relativism/ subjectivity. Let me say straight away that I totally "get" moral subjectivity - and moral relativism (both are very close precepts but not quite the same). Nevertheless when pressed on this subject I have mostly found myself standing with objective moral values. Indeed, years ago, i have had marathon debates on this forum on this subject. In those discussions, I dont think I truly let my real position on to my co-discussants - because in my view they had taken far too extreme and therefore far too absurd a position in favour of moral subjectivism/ moral relativism such that if one were to abide with their propositions, it would never be possible to condemn any deed in this world - no matter how grisly, how abominable, how disgusting or how evidently, manifestly and patently against the flow of life and nature such a deed was.
This extremity is what led me to argue objective moral standards in opposition and my question to you is therefore - to what extent would you push the moral subjectivism / moral relativism evident in your post. Do you also espouse it to such a degree that it becomes impossible to ever say of any deed - "this was clearly wrong or evil" - thereby taking us into a blurry moral existence which frankly if ever given legal credence to - would result not just in anarchy but probably even the expedited extinction of our species.
That is my question.
However because of the enlightenment with which you have spoken, and the poetry evident in your pen (which is a weakness for me) I will share with you ahead that I am not a strict moral objectivist in truth, regardless of how ardently I argued that position in the past. I am not a religious person - I subscribe to no religion - for most of my time of this forum I was known as a deist (and suspect I introduced Deism here) - today I would prefer to say that I am agnostic - whilst I believe in the existence of a source, I believe it is beyond remote and thus unknowable. On the question of morality, I believe in certain secular objective moral standards - with the proviso that every moral action has a context and a situation - which must be taken into account. Something I would perhaps call situational or contextual morality.
What say ye, good sir? I shared most of all I'd said here from one of the books I'd read overtime in my quest for more insight on what life is. I believe all your questions would be answered when you go through its pages. I am not subjected to say anything is wrong or right. All is all in the process of becoming Who We Are. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Roycemadeit(m): 9:12am On Dec 31, 2019 |
k4kenny:
We were created with imperfect.  |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by midnighter(f): 9:14am On Dec 31, 2019 |
k4kenny:
We were created with imperfect. It's on our natural disposition to falter once in a while. But God is kind, merciful, forgiving and accepts sincere repentance. All you need to do is repent and try as hard as possible not to fall into that sin again. Even if you do, there's still room for repentance as long as you're alive and sincere in your intention.
Yes, my parents and people I've offended have forgiven my offences as I have also forgiven those who offended without attaching any conditions or punishment. Anyone who's forgiveness is based on punishment or retribution is nothing but a vindicated and horrible person. Are you?
If you buy a device and the manual is filled with errors and items inconsistent with the device you've purchased, would you be convinced that it's the manufacturer that wrote the manual? Anyone without sound knowledge of the product could have sneaked the manual into the package. Such is the case of the bible. Why would you call a book with errors was inspired by God. God is not the author of confusion. You havent understood the nature of God, which is why you keep making the same wrong argument. You havent understood the irrelevance of inconsistency or error to the argument for the truth of the pathway to redemption, which is why you keep making the same wrong argument. Ive already laid it out for you; accept or reject as you will. Have a nice day. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by DeepSight(m): 9:37am On Dec 31, 2019 |
Roycemadeit:
I shared most of all I'd said here from one of the books I'd read overtime in my quest for more insight on what life is. I believe all your questions would be answered when you go through its pages. Thanks, I'll take a look at the book. I am not subjected to say anything is wrong or right. All is all in the process of becoming Who We Are. Is this all you would say to, for example - a serial killer - who finds happiness therein? |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by DeepSight(m): 9:41am On Dec 31, 2019 |
midnighter:
Sins need to be punished. If you understand God as much as you claim to, you should understand that its against His nature to abide with sin. Forgiveness is not the point. He can forgive you but He still needs the sin to be paid for. Are you saying that your parents simply "forgave" you all the time when you were growing up, with no consequences?
You shouldnt use emotive language like "conditional forgiveness" and "revenge" to try to distract away from the point. God is a just god and feels righteous anger against sin and iniquity.
Your second paragraph is not closely connected enough with what we were discussing to warrant a response from me unless you can explain how it is relevant. I did not deny the existence of errors or inconsistencies in my previous post so I dont understand what you wrote there. Is it possible that it is God who requires our forgiveness for subjecting us to a sadistic creative experiment? |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by DeepSight(m): 9:45am On Dec 31, 2019 |
k4kenny:
We were created with imperfect. It's on our natural disposition to falter once in a while. But God is kind, merciful, forgiving and accepts sincere repentance. All you need to do is repent and try as hard as possible not to fall into that sin again. Even if you do, there's still room for repentance as long as you're alive and sincere in your intention.
Yes, my parents and people I've offended have forgiven my offences as I have also forgiven those who offended without attaching any conditions or punishment. Anyone who's forgiveness is based on punishment or retribution is nothing but a vindicated and horrible person. Are you?
If you buy a device and the manual is filled with errors and items inconsistent with the device you've purchased, would you be convinced that it's the manufacturer that wrote the manual? Anyone without sound knowledge of the product could have sneaked the manual into the package. Such is the case of the bible. Why would you call a book with errors was inspired by God. God is not the author of confusion. Adopting the same logic in your last paragraph (which I agree with, by the way) - should we not similarly conclude that God could not have created this world - with its imperfections, diseases, absurdities and glitches? Could it not therefore be the work of some non-transcendent or mortal scientists within this realm, or within this universe? |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Ayt27(m): 9:45am On Dec 31, 2019 |
englishmart:
I'm in the man who came for Deliverance had once gone to heaven. This is interesting Lol, yes well when spiritual mysteries gets opened, it's no longer a mystery again and usually quite interesting since it's not what we are used to. But as real as you and I there are spiritual mysteries independent of skeptics. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by midnighter(f): 9:48am On Dec 31, 2019 |
DeepSight:
Is it possible that it is God who requires our forgiveness for subjecting us to a sadistic creative experiment? Is this a rhetorical question? |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by midnighter(f): 9:53am On Dec 31, 2019 |
themonk:
Which of these two should go against your nature?
1) Forgiving and forgetting someone’s sins without repercussion.
2) Sending your son to die on the cross in a horrendous manner so you can forgive humans.
Is this even a question? midnighter:
When I used the word "can" I was not referring to his ability or inability to wipe away sins. Of course He CAN wipe away sins. The question is, WOULD He wipe away sins and under what circumstance? When I say "wipe" I mean totally forget them such that there is no punishment for them in the afterlife.
As far as He is a MERCIFUL God, He is also a JUST God. Sins must be accounted for and punished; this is the law. The punishment for sinning against God is death and condemnation to Hell. Who will suffer this punishment, if not us?
They used to spill the blood of a spotless animal as a substitute for a human, to cleanse his sin. The Israelites did that as a temporary measure to cover their sin and experience forgiveness because it was better than nothing. It still doesnt solve the conundrum.
Even before Abrahamic religion reached our shores, the concept of an atoning sacrifice was a huge part of traditional religion. People and animals were regularly sacrificed to the deity of the shrine. Yet it was never enough. Every year, more dead people and animals.
How many dead rams does it take to absolve a sinful human? How many dead humans for the good of the tribe?
We all have to die, because we are all sinful. Does God want punish His beloved creation? Does it please God to send us to Hell? Or would He do absolutely anything , including coming down to Earth in the form of a poor, illegitimate carpenter's son, to stop that from happening?
These are the bases of the problem, and the solution. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by k4kenny(f): 9:56am On Dec 31, 2019 |
themonk:
You are basically saying there are things God cannot do? Which is forgive and erasing repercussions, which is basically what humans do for one another.
If God has to randomly or systematically allow repercussions for sins and cannot forgive man without the spilling of the blood of his son, it means there are physical and universal laws he cannot tamper with and those laws are above him isn’t it?
The idea that God believes he was not created makes him an atheist, imagine a situation another God shows up and say. I’m the one that created this God you guys worship and the universal laws he must obey are under my command.
It is crazy to think that the Bible is infallible, except most things there are figurative, I mean some verses directly contradict the others. Sorry to say but if the Bible is literal, it is complete junk, if it is figurative how does “God” expect us to figure out the true meaning when almost different denominations interpret it differently even when they all claim to be under the same holy ghost.
I have come to understand and experience spiritual and paranormal parts of life but honestly most religions are junk. Come to think of it, A god inspires this book which everyone must follow or they burn in hell regardless of the degree of exposure or familiarity they have with this book, this book copied the concept of a son of God of immaculate conception who came to die for the world from ancient Egyptian religions and has so many contradictions.
In my experience most people who believe the Bible just want it to be true the moment you sincerely read the Bible without bias and with an open mind you see holes in it. I mean starting from modern scientific discoveries up to direct statements and these contradictions or inaccuracies are recurrent.
I know there is a spiritual part of life but most religions are lame attempts to explain it and more likely attempts to enslave people. It has come to my understanding that most atheists and critics of religions only do so by criticizing the Christian perspective of God and what the bible says. Your statement that God believes he was not created is weird. How can you tell what God believes? Anyways Islam has its own explanation of God and how the world came into being. Science theorised that the universe was created by an expansion which lead to a big bang. This is also stated in the Qur'an. The question now is what lead to this big bang?. Newton's first law of motion states that an external force causes an effect on an object. Whatever force that caused the big bang is definitely outside of this universe. Also note that whatever causes an effect has no resemblance to the effect it has caused. Let me explain better. When you blow a balloon, it expands. The expansion is as a result of the air pressure inside the balloon. The air(cause) has no resemblance whatsoever with the balloon's expansion (effect). In the same vein, the Creator of the universe bears no resemblance to any of the effects of His cause. Q112.4 states ' and there is nothing like unto Him'. Any religion that gives their 'god' a human identity is nothing but a sham. I'll really urge the OP and others to please study Islam with a non biased mind. Forget about all this propaganda of Isis and Boko haram. It's all plot to cause chaos and divert people from the truth. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by barneystinson(m): 10:05am On Dec 31, 2019 |
emrain:
Religion is not about heaven and hell nor God and Satan.
The stories in religious books are there to help teachers teach children how to survive peacefully and harmoniously with others.
Religion was all about survival. Sadly not anymore.
The modern world believes Abrahamic religions have outlived their usefulness because they've killed God.
There's no longer anything to fear, so many people no longer have reasons to endure the pain of this world. No hope of eternal life. Surprisingly, Slave morality is on a rapid rise in disguise.
Hope has become a fraud.
Empathy is only employed when it's convenient.
The things our fathers were ashamed of are what we celebrate today.
Religious leaders live out their grandiose fantasy at the expense of their sheeple because they've replaced God.
Is atheism the answer? From my experience, I don't think so.
Most atheists in religious countries are usually apathetic and in some cases bitter. This doesn't help anybody, not even the atheists themselves.
The easiest way to save Africans from modern religious manipulators (if you care) is to become very religious and inspire the sheeple in bondage to be more educated and see for themselves that God is dead and it's time to move on.
How do you do this? Become a Sunday school teacher, preacher etc. Intentionally expose your audience to thought-provoking books and materials that helped you come to terms with reality. While at it, always emphasize on empathy and how our collective survival and advancement depends on it.
In the end, liberating Education is what we need. Not apathy, elitism, bitterness, etc that comes with being an atheist in this part of the world.
PS- Good/bad fortune has nothing to do with God. It has everything to do with you and the people you surround yourself with.
Interesting comment there. Could you please share the names of any thought-provoking books on the subject you may have read? |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by midnighter(f): 10:08am On Dec 31, 2019 |
themonk:
Human sacrifice that incurred more sins from those who sacrificed Jesus. I mean this is a God who encouraged slavery in this book you speak of, encourage some tribes of humans to go and kill other tribes even though he supposedly created both of them but he loved one more, this is unjust isn’t it? The Bible cannot be a moral compass, I mean Christians that have the guts to even argue irk me. I don’t like to argue with people about religion but I’m so concerned when people try to convince others it is a moral compass or a coherent, informative and infallible book of justice. Stick to your religion and just believe that things you see there you will get to understand later. Except you have any esoteric knowledge about the Bible or you read another bible different from the one I read or you just ignore the holes like most people do please just have faith that what you believe will be just and truthful and at the appointed time God will reveal everything to you.
Yes, miracles and divine manifestations work through the Bible but it also worked through ancient religions. In Igbo land they where bad and good native doctors and in Christianity there are pastors that kill their enemies and even neighbors and pastors that don’t. Some might argue that these pastors are possessed by evil spirits lol, these people haven’t read the Old Testament. The thing is if you are smart enough this should tell you that this thing is deeper than you can imagine. Go out and do research and compare what you believe with reality, theoretical and arm-chair Bible arguments don’t work. You have taken the Bible accounts out of context. Rather than using your own concept of morality to judge that of the people doing the warring and enslaving, you should take time to understand the environment, orientation and circumstances surrounding those Biblical events and what God was hoping to achieve by assisting them in their endeavours. Are you being deliberately condescending? Your second paragraph is beside the point; I have never denied that traditional religion could be effective so no need to lecture me on that. Why dont you as well "go out and do your own research" instead of twisting the Bible to suit your spurious "arm-chair argument"  I dont see the point in you using the Old Testament as an argument against Christianity without considering the New Testament which forms the explanation and validation of the first part. How can a pastor who kills people be justified by the Bible? You are not making sense. Can a native doctor who poisons people be justified by any masquerade cult or Nze na Ozo society? So whats your point exactly 1 Like |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Omonigeriarere: 10:11am On Dec 31, 2019 |
englishmart:
1.Jesus is the only way to God, John 14:6
This invariably means those who don't believe in Jesus have no business in heaven.
Christians worldwide have an estimated population of 2.4billion people
Islam records an estimate of 1.9 billion adherents, Hindu has an estimated 1.1bn adherents. The remaining world's population have their own beliefs which includes atheism.
If Jesus is the only way to God, what happens to those who don't believe in him? Hell? Well, the Bible suggests so.
2. There are a lot of complications and contradictory remarks in the Bible- a verse says don't drink, another says "Drink for your stomach sake", or "Do not drink wherein excess."
Malachi 3:10 a famous Bible verse on tithing speaks about bringing your tithe to the storehouse (church, maybe)
Deuteronomy 14:22-26 says otherwise, it says "you should drink and be merry with your tithe". I'm seriously beginning to doubt the credibility of the Bible. Maybe the translators' fault or God told writers different stories on the same issue. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's account of Jesus and see real contradictions.
3. Does God answer prayers? Well, I'm not really sure about that. Someone might be suffering from malaria, the person takes drugs and still prays, the drugs work, but the person thanks God. Or a successful surgical operation, instead of thanking the doctor, they thank God. Some illnesses that would have been treated led to deaths because a certain congregation who were supposed to take the ill persons to the hospital, circled around praying. Faith without work isn't it still dead?
I remember when I had stomach ulcer, it was really terrible, I prayed and made several promises to God that if He took away the ulcer, I'd drink no more alcohol and will be more devout in worshipping Him. That didn't solve anything though, I stopped drinking and took to taking my drugs more seriously. Weeks later, I was well. I returned to drinking and after a few months, the ulcer resurfaced. That was when I realized I really needed to quit drinking. Prayers wouldn't have solved that issue.
I spent 80% of 2019 at home because of my misgivings about God's existence.
I really wish I could be convinced about God's existence because I'm not even happy to be away from Church because of the views of friends and family.
4. Children of God, or so called children of God tend to suffer more tribulations, hard times and desperate moments, a lot of them scream "Vanity upon Vanity" when secular people live in luxury or spend extravagantly. God tends to turn his back on those who worship Him especially when they need Him most.
The 1933 Holocaust and mass murder of Jews to the tone of 6m was a clear indication that God turns His eyes against His people
Repulsive comments are highly welcome
Indeed you were born as a Christian, but you have not really known the word of God. See, I was once in your shoe and the more I remained firm in my conviction about non existence of God, the more confused I was. Christ suffered, likewise his disciples. He enjoyed too just like disciples. In the end, He was so pragmatic by telling them that all believers would face tribulations, but also promised them that none will overcome them if they believe. Just an experience in a Church where tithes are being effectively utilized to cater for education of orphans, widow and widowers, poor and needy would change your mind unlike all these sole proprietors calling themselves Daddies. However, please be reminded that you ate still alive while many have died through the same malaria you had. Yet, you claimed that God refused to answer your prayer. Remember, Stella, Yaradua etc were attended to at best hospitals and Drs in the world, but it doesn't guarantee their sound health. This is what is called grace and it is only given by God. Having Chief Security Officer didn't guarantee your safety. Being attended to by the best Drs in the best hospitals does not guarantee good health. Best mansion does not guarantee happy home. If so, why claiming non existence of God even when our traditional believe did not claim otherwise? You had a terrible stomach ulcer, you prayed and made several promises to God that if He took away the ulcer, you will refrain from such. You stopped drinking and took to taking my drugs more seriously. Weeks later, you became well and immediately returned to drinking and after a few months, the ulcer resurfaced. Who are you deceiving? You broke a promise you have made. Now, you are enjoying the consequence. Whatever a man sows, so shall he reap. If taking drugs is all what is required to get healed, I think our society is supposed to be free of patients by now. Now, compare your sentence above with the fruit of the spirits listed in the Bible and tell us which one fits in. Christianity is not about instant miracles and problem free life you were envisaging. Guard your loins cos there is no perfect life in religion but in Christ alone. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by Roycemadeit(m): 10:17am On Dec 31, 2019 |
DeepSight:
Thanks, I'll take a look at the book.
Is this all you would say to, for example - a serial killer - who finds happiness therein? Hitler made Heaven |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by k4kenny(f): 10:22am On Dec 31, 2019 |
Roycemadeit:
That was a typo jor . Should be imperfections  |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by k4kenny(f): 10:28am On Dec 31, 2019 |
DeepSight:
Adopting the same logic in your last paragraph (which I agree with, by the way) - should we not similarly conclude that God could not have created this world - with its imperfections, diseases, absurdities and glitches? Could it not therefore be the work of some non-transcendent or mortal scientists within this realm, or within this universe? Look again at the universe, look at the creation of your own self, can you name any imperfections? The world is such a complex creation yet everything is in perfect balance if we were to be a few inches closer to the sun we'd all roast. Same with our body systems, our complex network of cells organs and systems all working together on perfect harmony and balance. These are signs for us to ponder upon. The imperfections we see in our world today are all man-made. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by englishmart(m): 10:29am On Dec 31, 2019 |
imhere:
Jesus the way the truth and the light John 1:1 Is that what John 1:1 says? 1 Like |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by WebSurfer(m): 10:30am On Dec 31, 2019 |
DAVE5:
Ok, you’re very correct, is that all? Of course i am |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by midnighter(f): 10:31am On Dec 31, 2019 |
Roycemadeit:
That's why our pastor's have not written another Bible? They study the one from thousand years ago. Lol I dont understand this comment. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by k4kenny(f): 10:31am On Dec 31, 2019 |
midnighter:
You havent understood the nature of God, which is why you keep making the same wrong argument.
You havent understood the irrelevance of inconsistency or error to the argument for the truth of the pathway to redemption, which is why you keep making the same wrong argument.
Ive already laid it out for you; accept or reject as you will. Have a nice day. And you understand the nature of God? Kindly explain to me then. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by WebSurfer(m): 10:33am On Dec 31, 2019 |
k4kenny:
Look again at the universe, look at the creation of your own self, can you name any imperfections? The world is such a complex creation yet everything is in perfect balance if we were to be a few inches closer to the sun we'd all roast. Same with our body systems, our complex network of cells organs and systems all working together on perfect harmony and balance. These are signs for us to ponder upon.
The imperfections we see in our world today are all man-made. The way people ignorantly say things is annoying. Make research instead Those imperfections includes earthquakes and other natural disasters right ? Use your head to think right people |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by WebSurfer(m): 10:36am On Dec 31, 2019 |
k4kenny:
And you understand the nature of God? Kindly explain to me then. God is nature. Nature is a force. If you can understand this, other things might make sense to you if you take thorough time to research. which is not something achieved during a short time |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by k4kenny(f): 10:37am On Dec 31, 2019 |
Daejoyoung:
.
k4kenny, we write things with errors every day, we also compose music that may have errors, but it doesn't mean that we are not inspired by something powerful. There is no evidence that God ever authored a book in this world, but the love of God inspires men to write about God and such writings can be useful for our learning. Exactly we are humans, we're prone to making errors. Any scripture inspired by the God Almighty cannot be incorrect. No, God never authored a book. Rather He inspired His Prophets with the scriptures to guide their people to worship none but Him. These scriptures were later corrupted by human hence the errors. The Qur'an is the final scripture of God to mankind. Allah Himself said it'll be protected from corruption. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by k4kenny(f): 10:38am On Dec 31, 2019 |
WebSurfer:
God is nature.
Nature is a force.
If you can understand this, other things might make sense to you if you take thorough time to research. which is not something achieved during a short time . How is God nature? Any proof to this? |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by midnighter(f): 10:41am On Dec 31, 2019 |
k4kenny:
And you understand the nature of God? Kindly explain to me then. Ive explained it already, thats what Im trying to tell you. If you understood that God is a righteous God you wouldnt be complaining about conditions and vindictiveness and all that other stuff, because its totally beside the point. Holding somebody accountable for their actions is not "vindictive". Its insincere to suppose that God just forgets everything you do because He is too weak to stick to His principles. Kindness and mercy is not an excuse for you to get away with things, is it It is used in some cases, but its not a given. Grace is not a given! You even mentioned "trying hard" to repent and not commit the same sin again. This is why youre getting it wrong. No matter how hard you try, you will always fall short of God's perfect standard. This is why you and I, and every human on the planet, need an intercessor.And saying that "we were created with imperfections" is wrong according to Islam. I thought you people said that every human was born perfect until society later corrupted them So where does the corruption come from? And what is God going to do about it? Thats what you keep failing to answer because you havent fully understood the nature and severity of the problem of sin and by extension you havent grasped how impossible it is for God to be able to accept it in His presence. |
| Re: 4 Reasons I'm Considering Becoming An Atheist by WebSurfer(m): 10:41am On Dec 31, 2019 |
Omonigeriarere:
Indeed you were born as a Christian, but you have not really known the word of God.
See, I was once in your shoe and the more I remained firm in my conviction about non existence of God, the more confused I was.
Christ suffered, likewise his disciples. He enjoyed too just like disciples. In the end, He was so pragmatic by telling them that all believers would face tribulations, but also promised them that none will overcome them if they believe.
Just an experience in a Church where tithes are being effectively utilized to cater for education of orphans, widow and widowers, poor and needy would change your mind unlike all these sole proprietors calling themselves Daddies.
However, please be reminded that you ate still alive while many have died through the same malaria you had. Yet, you claimed that God refused to answer your prayer. Remember, Stella, Yaradua etc were attended to at best hospitals and Drs in the world, but it doesn't guarantee their sound health. This is what is called grace and it is only given by God.
Having Chief Security Officer didn't guarantee your safety.
Being attended to by the best Drs in the best hospitals does not guarantee good health.
Best mansion does not guarantee happy home.
If so, why claiming non existence of God even when our traditional believe did not claim otherwise?
You had a terrible stomach ulcer, you prayed and made several promises to God that if He took away the ulcer, you will refrain from such. You stopped drinking and took to taking my drugs more seriously. Weeks later, you became well and immediately returned to drinking and after a few months, the ulcer resurfaced. Who are you deceiving? You broke a promise you have made. Now, you are enjoying the consequence.
Whatever a man sows, so shall he reap. If taking drugs is all what is required to get healed, I think our society is supposed to be free of patients by now.
Now, compare your sentence above with the fruit of the spirits listed in the Bible and tell us which one fits in. Christianity is not about instant miracles and problem free life you were envisaging. Guard your loins cos there is no perfect life in religion but in Christ alone. Alot of you are not normal i swear |
