ibsaq:
so you believe in Quran

Rashduct4luv:



When it favours his position he believes it.
When he see verses he can twist, he uses the Qur'an.

Someone has answered him on all these nonsense he's posting but he just wants to spread his ignorance!

AntiChristian:


No mind am. Something so clear. I gave him this verses and he still came here to spread his falsehood.

Allaah says of His slave and Close Friend (Khaleel) Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning):

And he said (after his rescue from the fire): “Verily, I am going to my Lord. He will guide me!”

“My Lord! Grant me (offspring) from the righteous.”

So We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy.

And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: “O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offering you in sacrifice to Allaah). So look what you think!” He said: “O my father! Do that which you are commanded, In shaa’ Allaah (if Allaah wills), you shall find me of As-Saabiroon (the patient).”

Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allaah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

We called out to him: “O Ibraaheem!

You have fulfilled the dream!” Verily, thus do We reward the Muhsinoon (good-doers).

Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial.

And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice (i.e. a ram);

And We left for him (a goodly remembrance) among the later generations.

“Salaam (peace) be upon Ibraaheem!”

Thus indeed do We reward the Muhsinoon (good-doers).

Verily, he was one of Our believing slaves.

And We gave him the glad tidings of Ishaaq (Isaac) a Prophet from the righteous.

We blessed him and Ishaaq (Isaac). And of their progeny are (some) that do right, and some that plainly wrong themselves.” [al-Saaffaat 37:99-113)

The Glad tidings of Isaac came after the sacrifice!

AntiChristian:


No mind am. Something so clear. I gave him this verses and he still came here to spread his falsehood.

Allaah says of His slave and Close Friend (Khaleel) Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning):

And he said (after his rescue from the fire): “Verily, I am going to my Lord. He will guide me!”

“My Lord! Grant me (offspring) from the righteous.”

So We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy.

And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: “O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offering you in sacrifice to Allaah). So look what you think!” He said: “O my father! Do that which you are commanded, In shaa’ Allaah (if Allaah wills), you shall find me of As-Saabiroon (the patient).”

Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allaah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

We called out to him: “O Ibraaheem!

You have fulfilled the dream!” Verily, thus do We reward the Muhsinoon (good-doers).

Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial.

And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice (i.e. a ram);

And We left for him (a goodly remembrance) among the later generations.

“Salaam (peace) be upon Ibraaheem!”

Thus indeed do We reward the Muhsinoon (good-doers).

Verily, he was one of Our believing slaves.

And We gave him the glad tidings of Ishaaq (Isaac) a Prophet from the righteous.

We blessed him and Ishaaq (Isaac). And of their progeny are (some) that do right, and some that plainly wrong themselves.” [al-Saaffaat 37:99-113)

The Glad tidings of Isaac came after the sacrifice!

advocatejare:


The verses you gave above is the same I gave.

Why would God give the good tidings of Isaac after Abraham attempted to sacrifice Ishmael?

The Quran didn't mention the name of the child to be sacrificed but it's glaring it was Isaac.

Ishmael was the child of the slave, Isaac was the child of the wife. Which one of them would have meant a lot to Abraham?

And your Quran has told you that if you're in doubt, you should ask those who have been reading the scriptures before you.

In the scriptures before Quran, which is the Torah, it was clearly stated without ambiguity that Isaac was the child to be sacrificed.

AntiChristian:


Two Glad tidings were mentioned in those verses!

1. We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy. (Qur'an 37vs 101) who is this? Simply Isma'eel!

2. And We gave him the glad tidings of Ishaaq (Isaac) a Prophet from the righteous. (Qur'an 37vs 112) Who is this? Is'aac!

You can claim Isaac was given birth to two times sha since we have two Glad tidings!

Finally the last verse says:

We blessed him and Ishaaq (Isaac). And of their progeny are (some) that do right, and some that plainly wrong themselves.” [al-Saaffaat 37:113)

I am tired of this your delusion!

advocatejare:

You can only use that your funny analogy to fool neophytes in Islam.

Do you want to tell me that you don't know that the Quran is full of repetitions? Repetition of the same thing, referring to the same person/people?

Some repetitions are word for words, while others mean the same thing. Which is exactly the same in this case of repetition of glad tidings of Isaac.

Lemme give you other examples of repetitions in the Quran.

When Muhammad was reciting the scriptures part of the Quran, the Jews and the Christians knew he was plagiarising the Scriptures.

Also when he was reciting the Arabian fables and other fables, people knew he was reciting nothing but the legends of the former people.

Muhammad then decided to refute this claim but he forgot that he was merely repeating the same thing, just like the case of Isaac.



إِذَا تُتْلٰى عَلَيْهِ ءَايٰتُنَا قَالَ أَسٰطِيرُ الْأَوَّلِينَ
"When Our verses are recited to him, he says, Legends of the former peoples."
(QS. Al-Qalam 68: Verse 15)



إِذَا تُتْلٰى عَلَيْهِ ءَايٰتُنَا قَالَ أَسٰطِيرُ الْأَوَّلِينَ
"When Our verses are recited to him, he says, Legends of the former peoples."
(QS. Al-Mutaffifin 83: Verse 13)

As you can see, different suras, same word for word referring to the same person just like that for Isaac


Lemme give you another repetition in the Quran



لَقَدْ وُعِدْنَا نَحْنُ وَءَابَآؤُنَا هٰذَا مِنْ قَبْلُ إِنْ هٰذَآ إِلَّآ أَسٰطِيرُ الْأَوَّلِينَ
"We have been promised this, we and our forefathers, before; this is not but legends of the former peoples."
(QS. Al-Muminoon 23: Verse 83)




لَقَدْ وُعِدْنَا هٰذَا نَحْنُ وَءَابَآؤُنَا مِنْ قَبْلُ إِنْ هٰذَآ إِلَّآ أَسٰطِيرُ الْأَوَّلِينَ
"We have been promised this, we and our forefathers, before. This is not but legends of the former peoples."
(QS. An-Naml 27: Verse 68)

AntiChristian:



How is this applicable to the topic here? This repetition you brought is for emphasis but how many people is here:

We blessed him and Ishaaq (Isaac).

Only a ninny/ignoramus of English Grammar will see the above sentence and say the pronoun 'him" and the noun "Ishaaq" refers to only one person!

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Allaah tells us that when His Close Friend (Khaleel) Ibraaheem migrated from the land of his people, he asked his Lord to grant him a righteous son, so Allaah gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy. This was Ismaa’eel (peace be upon him), because he was the first child who was born (to Ibraaheem, peace be upon him). There is no dispute on this point among the followers of the various religions [Jews, Christians and Muslims], that (Ismaa’eel) was the first child born to Ibraaheem.

“And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him” means, when he grew up and was able to take care of himself, like his father. Mujaahid said: “And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him” means, when he grew up and was able to ride and walk and work like his father did. When this happened, then Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) saw a dream in which he was commanded to sacrifice this son of his. According to a hadeeth narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas and attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The dreams of the Prophets are Wahy (revelation).” So Allaah was testing His Close Friend by commanding him to sacrifice this beloved son who had come to him in his old age, when he was very old, and after he had been commanded to settle the child and his mother in the desert, in a valley in which there was no noise, no people, no vegetation and no animals. So Ibraaheem obeyed the command of Allaah and left them there, putting his trust in Allaah, and Allaah sent them provision, from an unexpected source. After all that, when Ibraaheem was ordered to sacrifice this son of his, who was his firstborn and his only child, he responded to his Lord and obeyed His command, hastening to do as He willed. So he told his son about it so as to put him at ease and not sacrifice him by force.

“He said: ‘O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offering you in sacrifice to Allaah). So look what you think!’” The forbearing boy immediately responded: “He said: ‘O my father! Do that which you are commanded, In shaa’ Allaah (if Allaah wills), you shall find me of As-Saabiroon (the patient).’” This was the best answer he could give, an example of obedience to his father and to the Lord of mankind. Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allaah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering).” It was said that “when they had both submitted themselves” meant when they had both surrendered to the command of Allaah. “and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead” means that he put him face down. It was said that he wanted to slaughter him from behind so that he would not see his face at the time of slaughter. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas, Mujaahid, Sa’eed ibn Jubayr, Qutaadah and al-Dahhaak… “They both submitted themselves” means that Ibraaheem said Bismillaahi’r-Rahmaan ir-Raheem and said Allaahu akbar and the boy said La ilaaha ill-Allaah because he was about to die. Al-Saddi and others said that (Ibraaheem) passed the knife over the boy’s throat but it did not cut him at all. It was said that a sheet of copper was placed between the knife and his throat, and Allaah knows best. Then it was called out from Allaah:

“’O Ibraaheem! You have fulfilled the dream!’” meaning, the purpose has been achieved, you have been tested and your obedience and willingness to do what your Lord commands have been proven. An alternative sacrifice will be provided instead of your son, just as you willingly submitted your body to the flames and you spent your wealth to honour your guests. Hence Allaah said:

“Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial” meaning that it was an obvious test.

“And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice” means, We provided a ransom for his son, an alternative to be sacrificed in his stead. According to the best known opinion of the majority of scholars, this was a fine white horned ram. Al-Thawri narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Uthmaan ibn Khaytham from Sa’eed ibn Jubayr that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: It was a ram that had grazed in Paradise for forty years.

It was also narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that the dried ram’s head was still hanging on the downspout of the Ka’bah. This alone is evidence that the one who was to be sacrificed was Ismaa’eel, because he was the one who was settled in Makkah and we have never heard that Ishaaq ever came to Makkah from the time he was little. And Allaah knows best.

See Al-Bidaayah wa’l-Nihaayah by Ibn Katheer, 1/157-158

The one who was to be sacrificed was Ismaa’eel and not Ishaaq, because of the reasons stated above. In his Tafseer (commentary) on these Ayaat, Ibn Katheer also mentioned a number of points which prove that it was Ismaa’eel who was to be sacrificed. These points may be summed up as follows:

Ismaa’eel was the first child of whom glad tidings were given to Ibraaheem. He was older than Ishaaq according to the consensus of the Muslims and the People of the Book (Jews and Christians). According to the scriptures of the People of the Book, it was stated that Allaah commanded Ibraaheem to sacrifice his only son, and in some manuscripts it says that he was to sacrifice his first-born son.
The first son is usually more dear than other children, so the command to sacrifice him is a more exacting test.
It is mentioned that glad tidings of a forbearing boy were given, and that he was the one who was to be sacrificed. Later in the passage it says (interpretation of the meaning): “And We gave him the glad tidings of Ishaaq (Isaac) a Prophet from the righteous.” When the angels brought the glad tidings of Ishaaq to Ibraaheem, they said: “We give you glad tidings of a boy (son) possessing much knowledge and wisdom” [al-Hijr 15:53 – interpretation of the meaning].

Allâh said (interpretation of the meaning): “But We gave her glad tidings of Ishaaq, and after him, of Ya’qoob.” (Hood 11:71) meaning that a child called Ya’qoob would be born during their (Sara and Ishaaq’s) lifetimes, and he would have many descendents… and it does not sound right for Ibraaheem to be commanded to sacrifice him when he was little, because Allaah had promised that he would have many descendents.
Ismaa’eel is described here (in Soorat al-Saffaat) as being “forbearing” because this is very appropriate in this context.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 4/15. And Allaah knows best.

...it does not sound right for Ibraaheem to be commanded to sacrifice him when he was little, because Allaah had promised that he would have many descendents.

advocatejare:


You're funny, you want to use the Hadith written by Arabs to explain history of the Jews?

Why did you think you were instructed to ask the people of the book if you're in doubt?



فَإِنْ كُنْتَ فِى شَكٍّ مِّمَّآ أَنْزَلْنَآ إِلَيْكَ فَسْئَلِ الَّذِينَ يَقْرَءُونَ الْكِتٰبَ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ  ۚ لَقَدْ جَآءَكَ الْحَقُّ مِنْ رَّبِّكَ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ
"So if you are in doubt, about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters."
(QS. Yunus 10: Verse 94)

The Quran didn't say you should ask the Hadiths, it instructs you to ask those reading the scriptures before you!


The history the Jews had been preserved for thousands of years even before Muhammad himself was born!

Don't waste your time trying to explain anything, simply point out where it is documented in the Quran, where the name of Ishmael was mentioned as the forbearing child.

The Torah was very clear on who the forbearing child was. Why isn't the Quran clear on the same?

The glad tidings of Isaac was brought and God promised to bless Isaac and his descendants that's why even your Quran could not hide it that God bestow his favour upon Israel and prefers Israel above all the worlds.

Same cannot be said about Ishmael and his descendants.


يٰبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ اذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتِىَ الَّتِىٓ أَنْعَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَأَنِّى فَضَّلْتُكُمْ عَلَى الْعٰلَمِينَ
"O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 47)


Finally in your last sentence you wrote



Just listen to yourself, so it would have been right for God to have have commanded Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael when he was little because God didn't promise that Ishmael would have many descendents right?

AntiChristian:


Diversions again! Nobody would argue with you anymore. Bye!