budaatum:

Salvation is the reward of God, as you quoted from Mat 16:27. It is a reward for work that tou do accepting Christ into your life. Eph 2:8-10 is simply so you don't go about boasting that you are righteous. For while one might think one has been doing Christ will, one might have just been going "Lord Lord", an error explained in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIV]Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican[/url], and that of the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-37&version=NIV]Levite and the Priest[/url].

Yes the Repentant Thief did do work! You just don't value the work that he did.

First, he recognised God due to work he had done to not be as ignorant as the other thief. Then he took responsibility for his sin, which is work. And he repented and asked for forgiveness, which is all works that the other thief did not do.

If he had done none of these very important works he would not have been rewarded just as the other thief who did no work was not rewarded!

Salvation is NOT a reward, it is a GIFT for him who has recieved grace for it and is willing to take it.

The repentant Thief just needed to ask "remember me when you get to your kingdom" and Jesus said "today, you'll be with me in paradise.

Work has to do with application of effort to cause a change of state/position of a situation.

The bible is very clear: we are saved by grace through Faith NOT by works that no one can boast

Eph 2:8-10:
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God, not of works , lest anyone should boast. For we are [His] workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

We are saved to do good works, it's not the reverse

If only you could understand the amount of work you yourself did and that was done on your behalf - all the people who suffered and shed blood so that you can today receive the Word of God so you know of this Jesus that rewarded you with salvation - you would perhaps value work more. But like some would have you understand, salvation falls from heaven like manna so they need do no work understanding the salvation that they claim they receive freely by grace. Yet, look at them, with their (promise of) salvation in the afterlife, while their threescore and ten is hell on earth. If only they worked harder to understand that God saves them here on earth by showing them the work that they must do to be saved on earth.

To have Grace, you must do something, put in some sort of effort, be it just putting out your hands and accepting it or reading your Bible to understand that which you receive. It is work, shade. And if you do not do it you can not be saved from anything! Not even from hunger, since you must work for your daily bread!

Even to worship God is work. And the evidence suggests that it is those who do this work that are blessed, while those who do no work are not blessed. You may compare USA, a land of people who are “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground” and are blessed, with by grace waiting for manna to fall from heaven Nigeria. I'm sure you agree that Nigeria is the more blessed.

You will forgive me, but the purpose of this thread is work. And what I write in it will not be understood by those who will do none to understand that. You know in your heart however, whether you did no work and Jesus and your understanding of Jesus just dropped on your head. Or you worked a lot to understand Christ and how and why you are saved.

My own opinion is that merely reading the over a thousand page Bible is a lot of work the likes that many do not or can not do. That is not to say that they are not saved. But to those whom more is given, a whole lot more is expected; and a lot has been given to buda, so buda does a lot of work.

shadeyinka:

Salvation is NOT a reward, it is a GIFT for him who has recieved grace for it and is willing to take it.

The repentant Thief just needed to ask "remember me when you get to your kingdom" and Jesus said "today, you'll be with me in paradise.

Work has to do with application of effort to cause a change of state/position of a situation.

The bible is very clear: we are saved by grace through Faith NOT by works that no one can boast

Eph 2:8-10:
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God, not of works , lest anyone should boast. For we are [His] workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

We are saved to do good works, it's not the reverse

shadeyinka:

What has salvation by Grace to do with Buhari resigning?

Many do fail to connect their understanding of scripture with reality. That's why they get their salvation in the afterlife but suffer here on earth for threescore and ten years while waiting for it.

Makes you wonder if they understand what is meant when they pray [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A10&version=KJV]Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven[/url].

budaatum:
If only you could understand the amount of work you yourself did and that was done on your behalf - all the people who suffered and shed blood so that you can today receive the Word of God so you know of this Jesus that rewarded you with salvation - you would perhaps value work more. But like some would have you understand, salvation falls from heaven like manna so they need do no work understanding the salvation that they claim they receive freely by grace. Yet, look at them, with their (promise of) salvation in the afterlife, while their threescore and ten is hell on earth. If only they worked harder to understand that God saves them here on earth by showing them the work that they must do to be saved on earth.

To have Grace, you must do something, put in some sort of effort, be it just putting out your hands and accepting it or reading your Bible to understand that which you receive. It is work, shade. And if you do not do it you can not be saved from anything! Not even from hunger, since you must work for your daily bread!

Even to worship God is work. And the evidence suggests that it is those who do this work that are blessed, while those who do no work are not blessed. You may compare USA, a land of people who are “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground” and are blessed, with by grace waiting for manna to fall from heaven Nigeria. I'm sure you agree that Nigeria is the more blessed.

You will forgive me, but the purpose of this thread is work. And what I write in it will not be understood by those who will do none to understand that. You know in your heart however, whether you did no work and Jesus and your understanding of Jesus just dropped on your head. Or you worked a lot to understand Christ and how and why you are saved.

My own opinion is that merely reading the over a thousand page Bible is a lot of work the likes that many do not or can not do. That is not to say that they are not saved. But to those whom more is given, a whole lot more is expected; and a lot has been given to buda, so buda does a lot of work.

No one has said that works is not Important.
But as per my salvation, it rests not on my works. That why it is impossible for me to boast about it. What did I do to merit it!? Nothing!

However, my salvation was based chiefly on the atonement done by Christ and the work done by generations of believers who passed down the torch of the light of God through their works of obedience and sacrifice. Some sacrificed to the shedding of their blood, and some experienced poverty etc. On their shoulders I stood, through their works not mine I came to know Christ.

For faith comes by hearing. And how can people hear when there is no preacher.

My responsibility as one who was saved through God's unmerited favour, it is my duty to work hard so that the same grace I have recieved will be extended to my "downlinked"!

budaatum:

Many do fail to connect their understanding of scripture with reality. That's why they get their salvation in the afterlife but suffer here on earth for threescore and ten years while waiting for it.

Makes you wonder if they understand what is meant when they pray [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A10&version=KJV]Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven[/url].

The kingdom of God suffereth violence..
We have to break away from the status quo!

There are two types of works referred to in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament).

The first is the WORKS OF THE LAWS introduced when the Israelites came out of Egypt, these works is strictly attached to the WRITTEN CODES found in those laws. Anyone adequately practicing them will be allowed to live amongst the Israelites as a bonafide worshiper of the God of Israel, while defaulters must stay far away from Israel or risk been exterminated.

The second is the WORK OF FAITH introduced when Jesus began his ministry in the first century, just like the first these work is also strictly attached but NOT TO WRITTEN CODES as the first, rather it's attached to the THOUGHTS, WORDS and ACTIONS of Jesus who is called the Christ! Anyone adequately practicing them will be granted the opportunity to live FOREVER, those who stumbles while trying to master it will be allowed to continue working harder to master it. But all those who REFUSED TO CONSIDER IT WILL NOT BE PARDONED, BUT GOD'S BURNING ANGER AWAITS THEM!

So the first has gone obsolete the very day Jesus said IT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED and breathe his last as a human, whoever is still practicing the former works HAS TOTALLY DERAILED FROM THE RACE TO EVERLASTING LIFE!

God bless you!

Maximus69:
There are two types of works referred to in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament).

The first is the WORKS OF THE LAWS introduced when the Israelites came out of Egypt, these works is strictly attached to the WRITTEN CODES found in those laws. Anyone adequately practicing them will be allowed to live amongst the Israelites as a bonafide worshiper of the God of Israel, while defaulters must stay far away from Israel or risk been exterminated.

The second is the WORK OF FAITH introduced when Jesus began his ministry in the first century, just like the first these work is also strictly attached but NOT TO WRITTEN CODES as the first, rather it's attached to the THOUGHTS, WORDS and ACTIONS of Jesus who is called the Christ! Anyone adequately practicing them will be granted the opportunity to live FOREVER, those who stumbles while trying to master it will be allowed to continue working harder to master it. But all those who REFUSED TO CONSIDER IT WILL NOT BE PARDONED, BUT GOD'S BURNING ANGER AWAITS THEM!

So the first has gone obsolete the very day Jesus said IT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED and breathe his last as a human, whoever is still practicing the former works HAS TOTALLY DERAILED FROM THE RACE TO EVERLASTING LIFE!

God bless you!

Was Abraham not doing work of faith when he led his son to be sacrificed? Was Noah not doing work of faith when he built his ark? So how can what was being done before Christ be introduced by Christ?

See here how we have evolved this conversation to our salvation on earth. We are speaking of one work here, and that is the work that brings about salvation. And as is clearly understood, those who do work that is not in accord with the dictats of the Lord clearly do work in vain! An example of such useless work would be kneeling and crying to heaven instead of shutting up and listening to instructions from God.

God blesses all. But you must put your hands out (work!) to receive it.

budaatum:


(1)Was Abraham not doing work of faith when he led his son to be sacrificed?
(2)Was Noah not doing work of faith when he built his ark?
(3)So how can what was being done before Christ be introduced by Christ?

(1)Abraham displayed full trust (believe) in God with that single act and so God counted him worthy of a resurrection! Romans 4:3,22 Galatians 3:6 James 2:23

(2)Noah displayed full trust in God in his life time and his name was included in the list of those to be resurrected!

(3)All what they did will only benefit them during the resurrection of the dead, they will all be remembered for their FAITH. But they're NOT YET QUALIFIED FOR EVERLASTING LIFE!

Each and every human must exercise FAITH in Jesus' ransom sacrifice before they're granted the opportunity to live FOREVER! {Revelations 20:11-12} It's their response or reaction to the law of Christ that will determined whether they're going to live FOREVER or PERISH {Revelation 20:13-15} God will not give anyone a visa to Paradise if such a person have NOT accepted the teachings of God's only begotten son! John 3:16

Malachi said our names will only enter into that book of life if we're fully engaged in what Jesus laid down, which is discussing with one another on what God's only begotten son taught! {Malachi 3:16 compared to Matthew 28:19-20} That's why Malachi concluded saying "that's the only criteria to distinguish between true worshippers of God and false worshippers"! Malachi 3:18

Maximus69:


(3)All what they did will only benefit them during the resurrection of the dead, they will all be remembered for their FAITH. But they're NOT YET QUALIFIED FOR EVERLASTING LIFE!

Yet, we are reading of a people who were rewarded in this life, Max!

Do not boast, they say, but that does not mean one should disregard the effort one must put in to get to where one is today. Unless, Max, you want to claim God puts in your mouth the edifying words that come out of you by you doing no work to ensure they do come out of you. I, for one can not believe it fell on to you like manna from heaven, and I know that you would not be as saved as you claim if you had not done the immense work that is required to first, read, and second, have an understanding that you may have of the Word of the Lord. You may correct me if I am wrong.

God did not lie to me. When it is written, buda, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground", God promised I will be blessed, and by my faith gained from my experience testing this promise by doing all the works that are clearly listed, I have so far found it to be exactly as it says in the book.

But just in case I do not get it, Psalm 15 makes it very clear that if I do all the works that are listed therein, I will not be shaken and will dwell in the Tabernacle of the Lord, where, I pressume, those with eternal life dwell.

You will have to forgive me, but God can not be refusing to reward me here on earth where I'm likely to spend threescore and ten years which is already like an eternity, while I'm waiting for some eternal life. I don't have such patience and I deserve much more than that from my God!

I guess my understanding comes from my work as a farmer. Fruits of the Spirit require dedication to cultivation and the rewards of growing them begin right here on earth as you yourself can testify to by your communications with buda, though, I confess that by pointing this out to you, I boast, but would claim it is your fault that I am made to so you may understand, and the fault of the Grace of the Lord, and not my own doing, that I am able to.

Those who do not do the required work will lack understanding at the very least, and are known by the fruits that they produce or don't produce, whichever is the case. And one should not claim to have eternal life if one is not blessed on earth, as kpakpandoN has taught us here.

budaatum:

Yet, we are reading of a people who were rewarded in this life, Max!

Do not boast, they say, but that does not mean one should disregard the effort one must put in to get to where one is today. Unless, Max, you want to claim God puts in your mouth the edifying words that come out of you by you doing no work to ensure they do come out of you. I, for one can not believe it fell on to you like manna from heaven, and I know that you would not be as saved as you claim if you had not done the immense work that is required to first, read, and second, have an understanding that you may have of the Word of the Lord. You may correct me if I am wrong.

God did not lie to me. When it is written, buda, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground", God promised I will be blessed, and by my faith gained from my experience testing this promise by doing all the works that are clearly listed, I have so far found it to be exactly as it says in the book.

But just in case I do not get it, Psalm 15 makes it very clear that if I do all the works that are listed therein, I will not be shaken and will dwell in the Tabernacle of the Lord, where, I pressume, those with eternal life dwell.

You will have to forgive me, but God can not be refusing to reward me here on earth where I'm likely to spend threescore and ten years which is already like an eternity, while I'm waiting for some eternal life. I don't have such patience and I deserve much more than that from my God!

I guess my understanding comes from my work as a farmer. Fruits of the Spirit require dedication to cultivation and the rewards of growing them begin right here on earth as you yourself can testify to by your communications with buda, though, I confess that by pointing this out to you, I boast, but would claim it is your fault that I am made to so you may understand, and the fault of the Grace of the Lord, and not my own doing, that I am able to.

Those who do not do the required work will lack understanding at the very least, and are known by the fruits that they produce or don't produce, whichever is the case. And one should not claim to have eternal life if one is not blessed on earth, as kpakpandoN has taught us here.

That's why i'm responding buda, because you humbly request for a correction in case you got it wrong!

Regarding the command given at Genesis 1:28, due to our imperfection none of the imperfect descendants of Adam can singlehandedly meet up with that for now.

©Be fruitful ~ procreation through sexual reproduction!

©Fill the earth ~ make sure there is no place on planet earth that's not inhabited!

©Subdue it ~ make the best use of all the things found on the planet!

©Have in subjection all the animals= watch each creature closely and tame them to do things you feel they're good at to benefit yourselves!

If you look critically at all these you will find out that each human can only pick one or two of what is required there NOT all. That's why you'll notice many of God's servants who never had a child, but if you go back to the command you'll find out that they're good in one or two other aspect of it!

Jesus, John the baptist, Apostle Paul and many other servants of God never marry nor give birth to children, yet the did the work of FAITH.

So the question you need to find answer to now is

"WHAT IS THE WORK OF FAITH?

God bless you!

Maximus69:


That's why i'm responding buda, because you humbly request for a correction in case you got it wrong!

It was rhetorical Max. You know very well that buda does not do humble!

I'll deal with just two aspects of this and let you be.

Maximus69:
©Be fruitful ~ procreation through sexual reproduction!

Be fruitful means, Be productive. As in Work!
See [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A14-29&version=NIV]The Parable of the Bags of Gold[/url].

Maximus69:
Regarding the command given at Genesis 1:28, due to our imperfection none of the imperfect descendants of Adam can singlehandedly meet up with that for now.

God does not create imperfect human beings Max. All God's creations are perfect.

As is written "The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor." Each receives according to their need, and each gives (or works) according to their ability, which is why so much more is expected from those who have received more.

Do note that buda is not stating a doctrine that everyone must live by. The Lord may have told you different.

budaatum:

It was rhetorical Max. You know very well that buda does not do humble!

I'll deal with just two aspects of this and let you be.


Be fruitful means, Be productive. As in Work!
See [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A14-29&version=NIV]The Parable of the Bags of Gold[/url].


God does not create imperfect human beings Max. All God's creations are perfect.

As is written "The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor." Each receives according to their need, and each gives (or works) according to their ability, which is why so much more is expected from those who have received more.

Do note that buda is not stating a doctrine that everyone must live by. The Lord may have told you different.

I'll leave you after this, i remember Tatime once told me when we had a discussion about our friends on Nairaland.

"budaatum is not our type, she is not humble so she can't learn"

The word be fruitful and fill the earth was actually talking about sexual reproduction, for your information God said the same to the animals {Genesis 1:21-22} surely their is no special assignment given those creatures than mating and multiplying!

God didn't create humans imperfect, but after the event in Eden we became imperfect, meaning our abilities are limited due to DEATH and SICKNESS!

So each human can only pick one or two NOT fulfill all what God said there at least for now!

Maximus69:


I'll leave you after this, i remember Tatime once told me when we had a discussion about our friends on Nairaland.

"budaatum is not our type, she is not humble so she can't learn"

The word be fruitful and fill the earth was actually talking about sexual reproduction, for your information God said the same to the animals {Genesis 1:21-22} surely their is no special assignment given those creatures than mating and multiplying!

God didn't create humans imperfect, but after the event in Eden we became imperfect, meaning our abilities are limited due to DEATH and SICKNESS!

So each human can only pick one or two NOT fulfill all what God said there at least for now!

Wasn't it Jesus himself that said we that believe would do greater works than he himself did? John 14:12

Tatime was correct. buda does not do humble. That however does not mean buda does not learn. A persin who does not learn would not know anything and I doubt you'd say that about buda.

Regarding "be fruitful". You yourself said "Jesus, John the baptist, Apostle Paul and many other servants of God never marry nor give birth to children, yet they did the work of FAITH."

Would you say they were not "fruitful" because they did not reproduce sexually?

Maximus69:

"budaatum is not our type, she is not humble so she can't learn"

I'm concerned that a Christian thinks it's fine not to do humble...

budaatum:
Tatime was correct. buda does not do humble. That however does not mean buda does not learn. A persin who does not learn would not know anything and I doubt you'd say that about buda.

Regarding "be fruitful". You yourself said "Jesus, John the baptist, Apostle Paul and many other servants of God never marry nor give birth to children, yet they did the work of FAITH."

Would you say they were not "fruitful" because they did not reproduce sexually?

Now you're coming back to what i said, you can only fulfilled PART of those instructions if taken literally!

All servants of God did works of FAITH, but they're filling the earth with obedient and HUMBLE humans as they preach and teach them how to live peacefully together as a family. Not just bearing disobedient and rebellious offsprings causing chaos everywhere.

Jehovah's Witnesses are the one and only group doing this WORK today, everywhere they are allowed to practice their faith, they keep turning people to obedient and humble ones with their teachings! Zephaniah 2:2-3 compared to Malachi 3:16

Fortissimo502:
I'm concerned that a Christian thinks it's fine not to do humble...

One must only be humble to God for He alone must you bow down and worship.