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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. (25561 Views)
After Jesus’ Resurrection, Was His Body Flesh Or Spirit? / If A Baby Dies Will He/She Go To Heaven Or Hell? / Where Will Mad People Go To When They Die: Heaven Or Hell? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 3:41pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:I get you. Anything you don't like from the scriptures, you find another that seem to contradict it. Continue! |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 3:42pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:See how you have created multiple gods. God and Jesus! |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 3:43pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:Indeed God and Jesus! SMH!! |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 3:49pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:You didn't read but copied and pasted after the first paragraph. Let me give you highlights of the link and then compare if it's different from what I've been saying https://biblehub.com/commentaries/hebrews/12-1.htm The connection is chiefly with the last verses of Hebrews 11 , which are, indeed, a summary of the whole chapter. The purpose of God has been that those who throughout the past ages obtained witness of Him through their faith should not reach their consummation apart from us. To that consummation, then, let us press forward. As those who have preceded us reached the goal, each one for himself, by faith and patient endurance, so must we. Who are those who had preceded us? The answer in in Hebrews 11 |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 3:57pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
shadeyinka: This shows you did not understand what was written there. My point is in line with what is written there. Paul's purpose was to establish the faith of the Church. No where is it written that the dead were the witnesses in the cloud, rather their deeds and faith bear witness. 1 Like |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 3:57pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
shadeyinka:Who else if not them? |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 3:58pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
shadeyinka:Are Angels gods? 1 Like |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 4:00pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
Maximus69: Is there any country were murder,stealing, adultery, lieing ,False witness and so on are permitted by the law? 1 Like |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 4:00pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
shadeyinka: Its not my word but God's word. Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; Creation is the reverse of death. Creation. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Plasm104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. Death Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. In all either creation or death no where is soul added neither is there any evidence that a soul was existing before creation or after death. 2nd evidence. God made man from dust and God also confirmed that when man dies he returns to dust not remains neither is there any soul that lives on. Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. During creation only 2 things were brought together to make man also at death those 2 things are separated and man is no longer existing. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Nothing is left after the Seperation. If there was a soul that continues to live on Solomon would have mentioned it. When people die you cannot see them any more, any thing that appears as them is a demon. Job 7:8 The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not. Its impossible for Samuel to had appeared to Saul because God inspired Job to write that anyone who dies cannot come up any more. Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. Neither do they recognize anyone or there house. Job 7:10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by Nobody: 4:12pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent: Is there any country where one God (YHWH) is worshiped or where SABBATH is passed into law? |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 4:45pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:I quoted directly from your link things you'll rather not want to hear. See your summary: "to establish faith" as is the whole scripture. But in this Heb12, the question is how? Can you please find me a commentary from any source that teaches that the cloud of witnesses are God, Jesus and the Angels? If you can't, it shows you greatly err and you have cooked up an interpretation for yourself. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 8:07pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
Maximus69: Without exception of the sabbath which is at the center of God's controversy with Satan and the World. Every other law is in one form or the other legal in each country. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 8:08pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
[quote author=shadeyinka post=87555270] I quoted directly from your link things you'll rather not want to hear. See your summary: "to establish faith" as is the whole scripture. But in this Heb12, the question is how? Can you please find me a commentary from any source that teaches that the cloud of witnesses are God, Jesus and the Angels? If you can't, it shows you greatly err and you have cooked up an interpretation for yourself.[/quote Did the commentary say it was the dead that bear witness in the cloud? |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 8:13pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
shadeyinka: You are really confused. Like I said before it is obvious you did not read the commentary. Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers (1) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about. —Rather, Therefore let us also —since we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses —having put away all encumbrance and the sin . . . run with patient endurance the race that is set before us, looking, &c. (In so difficult a verse as this we need an exactness of translation which might not otherwise be desirable.) It is plain that the chief thought is, “Let us run our race with patient endurance, looking unto Jesus the Author . . . of our faith;” so that here again we have the thought which the writer is never weary of enforcing, the need of faith and patience for all who would inherit the promises. The connection is chiefly with the last verses of Hebrews 11, which are, indeed, a summary of the whole chapter. The purpose of God has been that those who throughout the past ages obtained witness of HIM through their faith should not reach their consummation apart from us. To that consummation, then, let us press forward. Present to us in the view of Christ’s accomplished sacrifice, it is all future in regard of personal attainment. As those who have preceded us reached the goal, each one for himself, by faith and patient endurance, so must we. The thought of persevering effort crowned by a recompence of reward ( Hebrews 6:12 ; Hebrews 6:18 ; Hebrews 10:35-39 ) very naturally suggested the imagery of the public games (by this time familiar even to Jews), to which St. Paul in his Epistles so frequently alludes. (See 1Corinthians 4:9 ; 1Corinthians 9:24-27 ; Philippians 3:12-14 ; 1Timothy 6:12 ; 2Timothy 4:7-8 ; comp. Hebrews 10:32-33 .) In these passages are called up the various associations of the great national festivals of Greece—the severe discipline of the competitors, the intenseness of the struggle, the rewards, “the righteous judge,” the crowd of spectators. Most of these thoughts are present here ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ; Hebrews 12:4 ), and new joints of comparison are added, so that the scene is brought vividly before our eyes. It has been often supposed that the word “witnesses” is used in the sense of spectators of the race. To an English reader this idea is very natural (as “witnesses” may simply mean beholders) , but there is no such ambiguity in the Greek word ( martyres ) . The Greek fathers rightly understood it to signify those who bear witness, and the chief point of doubt seems to have been whether the sense is general, or whether the word bears its later meaning—martyrs, who have borne testimony with their blood. Those who thus encompass us, a countless “host (a “cloud” of witnesses), have had witness borne to them through their faith, and in turn stand forth as witnesses to faith, bearing testimony to its power and works. One and all ‘they offer encouragement to us in our own contest of faith, and for this reason they are mentioned here. That the idea of the presence of spectators may be contained in the other words, “compassed about with so great a cloud,” is very possible; but no interpretation must be allowed to interfere with the chief thought—that the runner’s steadfast gaze is fixed on Him who has Himself traversed the course before us, and is now the Judge and Rewarder. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 8:19pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
shadeyinka: There over a 100 commentaries that agree with my narrative and I did not consult them before I wrote my. I was only inspired to write what I wrote and it agrees with almost all true bible commentaries. Here is one. Verse 1 says, “ Since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us . . . run.” So the first motivation I want us to see is this cloud of witnesses. Who are they and what does their witnessing mean? They are the saints that have lived and died so valiantly by faith in chapter 11. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Moses, and all those who suffered and died, “of whom the world was not worthy.” But what does their “witnessing” refer to? Does it refer to their watching us from heaven? Or does it refer their witnessing to us by their lives? The word “witness” can have either meaning: the act of seeing something, or the act of telling something. Which is it here? I think it is the act of telling. The verb form of this word “witness” ( martureo) is used five times in Hebrews 11 (in verses 2, 4 [twice], 5, 39) and always refers to the giving of a (confirming) testimony rather than the mere watching of an event. So I take the witnesses of Hebrews 12:1 to be the saints who have run the race before us, and have gathered, as it were, along the marathon route to say, through the testimony of their lives, “By faith I finished, you can too!” The best way to illustrate this, I think, is with Hebrews 11:4 , where the writer speaks of Abel and says, “Through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.” So Abel is in the cloud of witnesses, and he is witnessing to us by his life through the Scriptures. This is the way all the witnesses of Hebrews 11 are helping us. They have gathered along the sidelines of our race and they hold out their wounds and their joys and give us the best high-fives we ever got: “Go for it! You can do it. By faith, you can finish. You can lay the weights down and the sins. By faith, by the assurance of better things hoped for, you can do it. I did it. And I know it can be done. Run. Run!” So be encouraged when you plan your fall run with Jesus. There are dozens and hundreds and thousands of those who have gone before and who have finished the race by faith and surround us like a great cloud of witnesses who say: “It can be done! By faith, it can be done.” 2. History is waiting for you. 1 Like |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 8:37pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
shadeyinka: The cloud of witness can not be the saints watching us from Heaven because God told us that saints like David are still in there graves. waiting for the resurrection day. Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Even David knew he was going to wait in the grave till when Christ will come so he wrote in Psalm 17:15 As for me, I will behold your face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with your likeness. Job also agrees with David as he also wrote his own. In Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. 1 Like |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by Nobody: 8:52pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent: People simply make rules out of their own discretion on good and evil! Romans 2:14 Nobody gave them any laws, that's why they're also into the worst from of obscenities! |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 10:28pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
Maximus69: You don't know what you are saying. All over the World, people practice one form of legal system or the other, in Nigeria it is British legal system, in Ivory Coast it is French legal system. An the British and the French adopted there legal codes and system from the 10commandments. Because of the colonial impact and influence of this countries their legal system and code is been used or modified to suit each country. You can goggle this facts. Also the US the World richest and most powerful nation has a portrait of Moses with the 10commandments in their Supreme court as their source of inspiration. You can also google about this. As you can see the influence of the 10commandments is Universal, although it is not obvious to many due to their desire to see it abolished. 1 Like |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 11:33pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:I asked for a bible commentary preferably from your denomination. You are just repeating yourself |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 11:36pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:Check the highlights in RED. Do you now agree that the cloud of witness are the saints of old and not God, Jesus and the Angels? |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by shadeyinka(m): 11:44pm On Mar 18, 2020 |
blueAgent:So, who are the witnesses? |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by Nobody: 3:19am On Mar 19, 2020 |
blueAgent: When did God gave the TEN commandments? When did the British adopted it? When did the British arrived for colonization? What is the time frame between the time TEN commandments was given to Moses and when Europeans adopted it? Before the Europeans came to Africa were Africans living without laws? I'm OK now, so continue teaching your misinformed churchgoer friends! |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 11:51am On Mar 19, 2020 |
shadeyinka:Go and check my previous response on this. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 12:00pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
shadeyinka: How can they been the saints since the saints are still even there graves waiting for the resurrection? 90% of the commentaries acknowledge that it is the faith and deeds of those saints that are witnesses to us. not the saints alive watching us. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 12:03pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
shadeyinka: You are desperately looking for Bible commentaries that support your false teaching. When the Bible God's word is clear on this the saints are not in Heaven but in their graves waiting for the resurrection. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 12:08pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
Maximus69: First you need to Understand that the 10 commandments were existing even before God gave it the the Israelites. God punished Sodom and Gomarrah , God punished the People during the time of Noah, Joseph did not commit adultery because he knew it was sin against God all this occurred thousands of yrs before God gave the law to Israel. All throughout history the 10commandments were adopted by each generation and nations as the guide or code of conduct. Go and read about Europe in the dark ages. Also read about the persecution of Christians by the papal power. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by Nobody: 3:33pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
blueAgent: When i told you that you're just spewing gibberish, you will not listen! So Joseph also keep a Sabbath shey? |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 4:36pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
Maximus69: Why not do you have any evidence that he did not? |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by Nobody: 4:48pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
blueAgent: Do you have any evidence that people before Moses like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph ever thought or heard of anything called Sabbath? Even Abraham married his own blood sister (Sarah), whereas the laws forbids such! Come on my friend, the account of creation was revealed to Moses and not to any of those people! So they never knew anything about God's laws, they only lived by conscience! |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by Luchiana1(f): 4:53pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiHKs8CAta0 This is funny short & powerful, from Christ omega vision Drama Laugh well, but pls kindly click the red subscribe icon for update. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by blueAgent(m): 7:01pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
Maximus69: Which law forbids? Is there any where in the 10 commandments that any law concerning Miarraige us written? The Sabbath day was insistuted after the creation by God. Its a fact that Adam and Eve kept the sabbath. Abraham also kept the 10commandments including the sabbath for God himself testified of Abraham. Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. |
Re: What Goes To Heaven Or Hell, Is It Body,soul Or Spirit. by Nobody: 7:23pm On Mar 19, 2020 |
blueAgent: Then why is it that it's only the sons of Israel, (Jacob) son of Isaac, son of Abraham that knew the laws when Abraham their grate grandfather obeyed, kept commandments, statutes and laws? Whereas there are other children like Ishmael, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shua. Then Esau (Edom) son of Isaac! None of them knew anything about the laws you said their father Abraham kept, only for God to now write it in a tablet so that Moses could present it to ONLY the sons of Israel! |
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