steady986:
Imagine saying Westbrook is a number 2. The earlier we accept that Westbrook is a superstar in this league, the better. What has KD achieved that Westbrook hasn't? MVP, two-time scoring champion, two-time assist leader. He deserves to be number one on any team. As great as AD is. He's still number 2 to LeBron.

*p.s. Don't dare mention that KD has 2 titles and 2 finals MVP. I'm sure you know why.

Steady, Westbrook is a great player no doubt but in a team that has a KD on it he is an obvious number 2. This star thing get levels. Westbrook and KD don't belong to the same stratosphere. Westbrook dwells in the second order, men like KD and Lebron in the first.

It has nothing to do with titles.

Sometimes I wished Russ would have left earlier and We got CP3 earlier with K.D on the same team...Dammmmmnnnnnnnn!!!!!!

aliondo:
Sometimes I wished Russ would have left earlier and We got CP3 earlier with K.D on the same team...Dammmmmnnnnnnnn!!!!!!

If KD could not win with westbrook and ibaka, I doubt CP3 would have been a game changer. Kd was just not that tough mentally. He may have changed though, let see next season

damentalist:

If KD could not win with westbrook and ibaka, I doubt CP3 would have been a game changer. Kd was just not that tough mentally. He may have changed though, let see next season

Exchange Russ and CP3...Maybe K.D could have won then....

damentalist:

If KD could not win with westbrook and ibaka, I doubt CP3 would have been a game changer. Kd was just not that tough mentally. He may have changed though, let see next season

Cp3 is a better shooter than WB. He is also a pass first point Guard. He won't shoot poorly in the playoffs and with Ibaka and KD on the team, they are definitely a championship team.


Cp3 might get injured in a game 7 of the NBA finals tho. Na so he body be

I am sorry, stop overstating KD's abilities. He cannot handle the ball as much as Harden. He can bring the ball up sometimes. But he cannot be the primary ball-handler on a winning team. I am definitely talking about handling the ball primarily for an extended period of time.

SmooshCHN:

You're right. If KD handled the ball as much as Harden, he could average way more than 35 without the FTs.

benji93:
I am sorry, stop overstating KD's abilities. He cannot handle the ball as much as Harden. He can bring the ball up sometimes. But he cannot be the primary ball-handler on a winning team. I am definitely talking about handling the ball primarily for an extended period of time.

what was KD assist average the year Westbrook went down

benji93:
I am sorry, stop overstating KD's abilities. He cannot handle the ball as much as Harden. He can bring the ball up sometimes. But he cannot be the primary ball-handler on a winning team. I am definitely talking about handling the ball primarily for an extended period of time.

To handle the ball a lot is not the same as handling the ball efficiently. Yes Harden is more point guardish than KD, but his effectiveness in doing so is questionable, especially when em 3`s are not falling. A one man team hardly wins a chip and that's the Rockets curse.

Also, what Smooshchn meant by handling is not necessarily bringing up the ball or leading the offense, but more like taking a high percentage of the team shots and monopolizing the ball.

There is no way harden is a better offensive player than KD, though I have to give up to him that he has more hunger and his step back is legendary.

By the way the ankle breaker against Harden in the Olympics is one my top 10 best basketball moments

What the heck? KD's highest assist average at OKC with or without Westbrook getting injured was 5.5, which he pulled off in 2013/2014, the same season Westbrook played about half of the season. He even averaged better-5.9- in his final season at GSW, which is obviously cos of the way GSW plays. If this is in support of the point that he can play as the primary ball-handler, then I am afraid, it's a moot one. 5.5 is not in any way indicative of ball-handling ability, at least at an elite level. If the original argument, however, is giving him the ball most of the time, as suggested by someone else, then that's quite possible. If he has the ball most of the time in Iso, then he probably could come close. but you don't get 35 points per game without driving the ball some of the time. As we both know, KD is not quite the driver.

donlittle25:
what was KD assist average the year Westbrook went down

benji93:
What the heck? KD's highest assist average at OKC with or without Westbrook getting injured was 5.5, which he pulled off in 2013/2014, the same season Westbrook played about half of the season. He even averaged better-5.9- in his final season at GSW, which is obviously cos of the way GSW plays. If this is in support of the point that he can play as the primary ball-handler, then I am afraid, it's a moot one. 5.5 is not in any way indicative of ball-handling ability, at least at an elite level. If the original argument, however, is giving him the ball most of the time, as suggested by someone else, then that's quite possible. If he has the ball most of the time in Iso, then he probably could come close. but you don't get 35 points per game without driving the ball some of the time. As we both know, KD is not quite the driver.

Which one is what the heck? Na question I ask broz.

Una blood too they hot for this place o. Small thing na to fight remain. I beg o, man's no get time for that o.

KD could average 8-9 assists if he wants. Like you pointed to, He averaged around 5.9 his final season at GSW and he wasn't the primary ball handler. He isnt the second choice... it's Steph curry, Draymond Green, then Kevin Durant and he averaged almost 6 assists.

When he was at OKC, you said he averaged 5.5? Compare the playing styles back then and now? Was the offense this quick? How many possession per game did teams have back then compared to now? What is the points per game? Teams are scoring 140 points per game now.

These things matter Sha.

If Kevin Durant plays in a D'Antoni system, he would average 10 points everygame. He draws more attention than James Harden and can easily shoot over anybody in this league.

My guy, you don't have to drive everytime when you can shoot over anybody in the league. Why wreck your body doing all that when nobody fit block your shot? Doesn't mean he can't drive or he isn't good at it. Just simply conserving your body.

There are some players in this Nba that their body is glass but only skills they have is driving Sha, and now na every season them they do surgery.

Sense > Gra Gra.

James Harden drives and drives and drives and what happens in the playoffs? Uncle gets tired and starts settling for jumpshot that doesn't even go in.

Even LeBron that is one of the strongest player in this league, uncle sef they get tired from driving. Sometimes post up and get the job done o

Anyways, this isn't really part of his game and doesn't seem to be something he is focusing on Sha....

steady986:
Imagine saying Westbrook is a number 2. The earlier we accept that Westbrook is a superstar in this league, the better. What has KD achieved that Westbrook hasn't? MVP, two-time scoring champion, two-time assist leader. He deserves to be number one on any team. As great as AD is. He's still number 2 to LeBron.

*p.s. Don't dare mention that KD has 2 titles and 2 finals MVP. I'm sure you know why.

Two rings. Two FMVP. ROTY.

Omo forget o, the list plenty

BTW, when did it start going around that Kevin Durant doesn't take it to the rack?

Sorry, man. , your question surprised me.

donlittle25:
Which one is what the heck? Na question I ask broz.

Sorry, no he can't average 8-9 assists. Take it easy bros, It's not ludo man, stop putting out just any argument. GSW is not exactly a system that could help your case. Think again man. I respect KD's game man, he literally put us over the hump. . But honestly cut Harden some slack. KD was throwing a lot of bricks as well during the playoffs while he played alongside Westbrook. . Go and check his stats. His FG% and 3P% dipped considerably during the playoffs until he came to GSW. And don't tell me Westbrick was handling the ball most of the time, cos since he can shoot over everyone, he should have done alright during the playoffs as well. Now I am not considering a situation in which he actually improved his game when he crossed over, but i can't also forget the fact that he had the luxury of playing alongside one of the best shooting backcourts of all time. Only time will tell us which of these is True, or which combination of them fits his current status. Two years of incredibleness does not wipe out history or help him reacquire all the bricks he's lost. It has changed his outlook going forward though. We are all looking forward to what that highly skilled baller does on his next stint. By the way please do me a favor, check the stats before coming up with any counter-argument. Please at least check the stats like @steady986 does. . Thank you.

donlittle25:
Una blood too they hot for this place o. Small thing na to fight remain. I beg o, man's no get time for that o.

KD could average 8-9 assists if he wants. Like you pointed to, He averaged around 5.9 his final season at GSW and he wasn't the primary ball handler. He isnt the second choice... it's Steph curry, Draymond Green, then Kevin Durant and he averaged almost 6 assists.

When he was at OKC, you said he averaged 5.5? Compare the playing styles back then and now? Was the offense this quick? How many possession per game did teams have back then compared to now? What is the points per game? Teams are scoring 140 points per game now.

These things matter Sha.

If Kevin Durant plays in a D'Antoni system, he would average 10 points everygame. He draws more attention than James Harden and can easily shoot over anybody in this league.

My guy, you don't have to drive everytime when you can shoot over anybody in the league. Why wreck your body doing all that when nobody fit block your shot? Doesn't mean he can't drive or he isn't good at it. Just simply conserving your body.

There are some players in this Nba that their body is glass but only skills they have is driving Sha, and now na every season them they do surgery.

Sense > Gra Gra.

James Harden drives and drives and drives and what happens in the playoffs? Uncle gets tired and starts settling for jumpshot that doesn't even go in.

Even LeBron that is one of the strongest player in this league, uncle sef they get tired from driving. Sometimes post up and get the job done o

Anyways, this isn't really part of his game and doesn't seem to be something he is focusing on Sha....

DeeMain:


Steady, Westbrook is a great player no doubt but in a team that has a KD on it he is an obvious number 2. This star thing get levels. Westbrook and KD don't belong to the same stratosphere. Westbrook dwells in the second order, men like KD and Lebron in the first.

It has nothing to do with titles.

I don't agree. The two are very reliable ball handlers, and one obviously is a better passer and floor controller than the other. They're both capable scorers, although KD is more diverse. It's only fair that they be co-number 1s. Or are you trying to tell me Stephen was number 2 when KD was there?

benji93:
What the heck? KD's highest assist average at OKC with or without Westbrook getting injured was 5.5, which he pulled off in 2013/2014, the same season Westbrook played about half of the season. He even averaged better-5.9- in his final season at GSW, which is obviously cos of the way GSW plays. If this is in support of the point that he can play as the primary ball-handler, then I am afraid, it's a moot one. 5.5 is not in any way indicative of ball-handling ability, at least at an elite level. If the original argument, however, is giving him the ball most of the time, as suggested by someone else, then that's quite possible. If he has the ball most of the time in Iso, then he probably could come close. but you don't get 35 points per game without driving the ball some of the time. As we both know, KD is not quite the driver.

Very well said

donlittle25:
Una blood too they hot for this place o. Small thing na to fight remain. I beg o, man's no get time for that o.

KD could average 8-9 assists if he wants. Like you pointed to, He averaged around 5.9 his final season at GSW and he wasn't the primary ball handler. He isnt the second choice... it's Steph curry, Draymond Green, then Kevin Durant and he averaged almost 6 assists.

When he was at OKC, you said he averaged 5.5? Compare the playing styles back then and now? Was the offense this quick? How many possession per game did teams have back then compared to now? What is the points per game? Teams are scoring 140 points per game now.

These things matter Sha.

If Kevin Durant plays in a D'Antoni system, he would average 10 points everygame. He draws more attention than James Harden and can easily shoot over anybody in this league.

My guy, you don't have to drive everytime when you can shoot over anybody in the league. Why wreck your body doing all that when nobody fit block your shot? Doesn't mean he can't drive or he isn't good at it. Just simply conserving your body.

There are some players in this Nba that their body is glass but only skills they have is driving Sha, and now na every season them they do surgery.

Sense > Gra Gra.

James Harden drives and drives and drives and what happens in the playoffs? Uncle gets tired and starts settling for jumpshot that doesn't even go in.

Even LeBron that is one of the strongest player in this league, uncle sef they get tired from driving. Sometimes post up and get the job done o

Anyways, this isn't really part of his game and doesn't seem to be something he is focusing on Sha....

These are the sort of statements I don't like to hear. Has he done it? That he's not done it in his entire career should tell you that he can't quite do it.

With all due respect, when you have two of the best shooters in the league, you should average more than 5.9 assists.

steady986:
I don't agree. The two are very reliable ball handlers, and one obviously is a better passer and floor controller than the other. They're both capable scorers, although KD is more diverse. It's only fair that they be co-number 1s. Or are you trying to tell me Stephen was number 2 when KD was there?

there is nothing like co number 1.

Westbrook is not even co number 1 with Harden, how would be co number 1 with KD. KD is number 1 in almost any team in the league anytime anyday. Besides the Lakers (because of Bron) I see no team where KD would be the number 2 offensive option.

damentalist:

there is nothing like co number 1.

Westbrook is not even co number 1 with Harden, how would be co number 1 with KD. KD is number 1 in almost any team in the league anytime anyday. Besides the Lakers (because of Bron) I see no team where KD would be the number 2 offensive option.

If you say number one scoring option, then I get your point. KD might be the go to guy in terms of scoring But if you tell me he's number 1 in bringing the ball up, ball handling, creating plays and all that stuff, then that's not him. And who told you Westbrook is a number 2 with Harden? They share responsibilities almost equally. Harden's usage is 36.4% while Westbrook is 34.4%. You can't clearly say that's a number one and number 2 because they're virtually the same.

steady986:

I don't agree. The two are very reliable ball handlers, and one obviously is a better passer and floor controller than the other. They're both capable scorers, although KD is more diverse. It's only fair that they be co-number 1s. Or are you trying to tell me Stephen was number 2 when KD was there?

Well, your opinion. Apples and oranges. It was Steph Curry's team before KD came, so even though KD was their best player GSW's game was woven round Steph.

It's a lot like Miami Heat was Wade's team when Lebron and Bosh joined even though Lebron was their best player until Wade handed the team over to Lebron to lead voluntarily.

steady986:

If you say number one offensive option, then I get your point. KD might be the go to guy in terms of scoring But if you tell me he's number 1 in bringing the ball up, ball handling, creating plays and all that stuff, then that's not him. And who told you Westbrook is a number 2 with Harden? They share responsibilities almost equally. Harden's usage is 36.4% while Westbrook is 34.4%. You can clearly say that's a number one and number 2 because they're virtually the same.

It is not KD's role to bring the ball up. He has little or no point guards abilities, and not every major player has to be a good distributor. There is more to basketball than running the offense you know.Duncan or Shaq are all time greats, they equally have little handling abilities and likely less abilities than EasymoneySniper.

steady986:

If you say number one offensive option, then I get your point. KD might be the go to guy in terms of scoring B

that has been the topic from the onset. The guy said ab initio KD is unstoppable on the offensive end. So why divert into Ball handling?

During KD's time at GS, his usage% and that of Curry are as follows

1st year: KD 27.8%
Steph 30.1%

2nd year KD 30.4%
Steph 31%

3rd year KD 29%
Steph 30.4%

KD's last 3 years with Westbrook are as follows

15-16 KD 30.6%
Westbrook 31.6%

14-15 KD 29.1%(injury year)
Westbrook 38.4%

13-14 KD 33.0%
Westbrook 34.4%
*The only time KD had a higher usage rate than Westbrook were Westbrook's rookie and sophomore years. KD is not the go to guy when it comes to running the floor, that's why he's never been the primary ball handler in his teams(unlike LeBron for instance). What KD is, is a primary scoring option.

DeeMain:


Well, your opinion. Apples and oranges. It was Steph Curry's team before KD came, so even though KD was their best player GSW's game was woven round Steph.

It's a lot like Miami Heat was Wade's team when Lebron and Bosh joined even though Lebron was their best player until Wade handed the team over to Lebron to lead voluntarily.

I'm glad you brought this up. LeBron's first year in Miami, his usage% was 35.5% while Wade was 35.6%. This is nothing like KD and Steph in KD' first year there. Steph dwarfed KD in usage%. And as the years went by, LeBron steadily topped Wade in usage. Why? Cos Bron is a floor general. KD isn't, he has to defer to someone for that job.

steady986:
*The only time KD had a higher usage rate than Westbrook were Westbrook's rookie and sophomore years. KD is not the go to guy when it comes to running the floor, that's why he's never been the primary ball handler in his teams(unlike LeBron for instance). What KD is, is a primary scoring option.

Bro you are preaching the gospel to choir members.

There is no one here that will disagree that KD is not the person to turn to in case you need a floor general to run the show. The bone of contention from the start has been that KD is an unstoppable scorer. And in that he has no equal in this league. Read again the first post

SmooshCHN:
You can't tell me a healthy Kevin Durant is not the most unarguable player in the league.

damentalist:

that has been the topic from the onset. The guy said ab initio KD is unstoppable on the offensive end. So why divert into Ball handling?

But how come KD never outscored Curry at GS.

But that isn't my issue though, my issue is you people calling Westbrook a number 2 on the team, whether it's with Harden or KD.

damentalist:
Bro you are preaching the gospel to choir members.

There is no one here that will disagree that KD is not the person to turn to in case you need a floor general to run the show. The bone of contention from the start has been that KD is an unstoppable scorer. And in that he has no equal in this league. Read again the first post

That is not the bone of contention. The bone of contention is calling Westbrook a number 2.

steady986:
Imagine saying Westbrook is a number 2. The earlier we accept that Westbrook is a superstar in this league, the better. What has KD achieved that Westbrook hasn't? MVP, two-time scoring champion, two-time assist leader. He deserves to be number one on any team. As great as AD is. He's still number 2 to LeBron.

*p.s. Don't dare mention that KD has 2 titles and 2 finals MVP. I'm sure you know why.

This was what we were arguing damentalist

steady986:
That is not the bone of contention. The bone of contention is calling Westbrook a number 2.

Tony parker or even Gino handled the ball more than Duncan. Do you mean, Duncan was not number 1 on that team?

steady986:

I'm glad you brought this up. LeBron's first year in Miami, his usage% was 35.5% while Wade was 35.6%. This is nothing like KD and Steph in KD' first year there. Steph dwarfed KD in usage%. And as the years went by, LeBron steadily topped Wade in usage. Why? Cos Bron is a floor general. KD isn't, he has to defer to someone for that job.

So deferring to a ball handler means he can't be number 1 and that a team can't be built around him? I don't think so.

OKC management making the mistake of encouraging Westbrook to be co-number 1 with KD was the beginning and cause of OKC's fall from grace.

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