samuk:


Do not kid yourself to think that Biafra will come to fruition without another war and bloodshed.

The current Nigeria we have today came about as a result of the Igbo military coup of 1965 and the civil war that followed.

For the country to revert back to how it was when the British left, another war has to be fought, nobody is going to give Igbo independent Biafra on a platter of gold, they will have to fight for it and good luck to them.

Incase you guys forgot, the British actually gave you the autonomy you are now clamouring for and much more before they left Nigeria but you became over ambitious and greedy, you wanted it all to yourself.

By 1963 Nigeria had four regions. The Igbo controlled two of the four regions, they were head of the Army, Senate, President of the federal republic of Nigeria, head of almost all government ministries. The Igbo controlled territory contained more than half of the Nigeria crude oil wealth.

In the 1960s every region controlled it's resources and paid 50% tax to the federal government.

The North didn't have enough of it's indigines to filled all their jobs so they retained white expatriates pending when they trained enough northern man power to occupy those positions because they didn't trust the Igbos to take those positions.

In 1965, Igbo overthrew the democratically elected government and killed the prime minister from the north, federal ministers from across the country who were not Igbo, two regional premiers that were not Igbos, killed non Igbo military officers and turned Nigeria into a unitary system of government which will currently operate.

They quickly moved to the north and ordered the foreign expatriates out of their jobs and filled those positions with Igbos, the north protested up to the point of saying they wanted to leave Nigeria, all their protests fall on deaf ears.

The North decided to stage their own coup, which they did and succeeded in 1966 but rather than return the country to the old regions, they saw the selfish benefits in the Igbo made unitary system of government put in place by Ironsi.

The Igbo made unitary system allows the north to control over 80% of the oil wells in the south and all other juicy positions in the country unhindered.

Now the Igbos wants to reverse the system without a fight, you guys must be joking, you created this current Nigeria, you guys are Nigeria and Nigeria is you, you go nowhere, we are all going to manage and enjoy your creation together.

If you want Biafra be ready to fight another war.

Igbos are not Nigerians and Nigeria is not us....take back that statement.

They say Referendum is not a call for war. What they are asking is simple conduct a yes or no referendum for igbos to determine whether they want to stay or leave Nigeria?

Igbos only, no other person....so I don't see how that is encroaching on the unitary system of Nigeria...unless you want to sound mischievous.

Or are binis the one hausa-fulani will use to fight Igbos?

You sound like someone that will take up weapons against igbos?

MelesZenawi:



Igbos are not Nigerians and Nigeria is not us....take back that statement.

They say Referendum is not a call for war. What they are asking is simple conduct a yes or no referendum for igbos to determine whether they want to stay or leave Nigeria?

Igbos only, no other person....so I don't see how that is encroaching on the unitary system of Nigeria...unless you want to sound mischievous.

Or are binis the one hausa-fulani will use to fight Igbos?

You sound like someone that will take up weapons against igbos?

You are the one that is sounding mischievous by alluding to the fact that you would like what you call Igbo speaking area of south south to be included in your Biafra.

The only region that had the foresight to demand for a referendum from the British before they left was the mid west region. Every other thing since then, be it creation of states, regions, change of constitution and system of governance have been done through fiat.

Why demand for referendum now, did Ironsi and his Igbo brothers gave the rest of Nigeria the opportunity to have a referendum before he changed our fantastic regional system of government to unitary.

Let see how you are going to take off the mouth of the North from our oil wells without a fight.

Unlike in the 1960, when the Igbo controlled the eastern and mid west military forces, they control nothing today, the Hausa Fulani control every forces in the country and will not need the Benins to cut you to size if need be.

You will have to be patient until the oil wells run dry to have your Biafra.

AreaFada2:

Well, I have Ghanian inlaws who have acknowledged it. Ga inlaws and friends in diaspora. As far back as 30 years ago. I was quite surprised how confidently they asserted it.
I heard Yoruba, even Ooni Ojaja has been claiming them lately.

What you do not know is that over the last few years, there has been visits to their leaders in ACCRA area tow and fro reaffirming these ties.
Benin are not noise making agbero style people. I have pics of these visits. But I won't upload here. A halfway smart person will fine some of those online. But not all.

Benin has no real slave diaspora. Only very few Benin if kidnapped traveling by slave robbers got into slavery. So you do not see Benin going to Americas looking for long lost kin. We have none. We never cosy up to those without historically links to us.

Macof in your infantile and gargantuan overestimation of yourself, you are King Solomon of our time. Everyone not dancing to your confused tune is deluded. You will be alright las las

In laws, friends, acquaintance we all have, you are not the only one who would know some Ga people, that is if you weren't even lying about that. So this is no answer to the question

Mr. Man all this personal attacks is nonsense. Address the post and leave long talk
I didn't attack you

Here are the two points of my previous post again in case you missed it
1. What's the correlation between Benin and Accra
2. That certain families in Yorùbáland and elsewhere have Benin origin doesn't make them Benin till date.

samuk:


You are the one that is sounding mischievous by alluding to the fact that you would like what you call Igbo speaking area of south south to be included in your Biafra.

The only region that had the foresight to demand for a referendum from the British before they left was the mid west region. Every other thing since then, be it creation of states, regions, change of constitution and system of governance have been done through fiat.

Why demand for referendum now, did Ironsi and his Igbo brothers gave the rest of Nigeria the opportunity to have a referendum before he changed our fantastic regional system of government to unitary.

Let see how you are going to take off the mouth of the North from our oil wells without a fight.

Unlike in the 1960, when the Igbo controlled the eastern and mid west military forces, they control nothing today, the Hausa Fulani control every forces in the country and will not need the Benins to cut you to size if need be.

You will have to be patient until the oil wells run dry to have your Biafra.

Enemies of ndigbo showing themselves one by one.

Out of the abundance of thy heart the mouth speaks.


Igbos are asking to leave not with any other people but only them, why then the fuss.


Igbo speaking area and you are talking of oil Wells.... natural boundary only Igbos speaking.

We ain't dragging anybody but just Igbos for biafra.

What them is your problem?

is it simply hate?

MelesZenawi:



Enemies of ndigbo showing themselves one by one.

Out of the abundance of thy heart the mouth speaks.


Igbos are asking to leave not with any other people but only them, why then the fuss.


Igbo speaking area and you are talking of oil Wells.... natural boundary only Igbos speaking.

We ain't dragging anybody but just Igbos for biafra.

What them is your problem?

is it simply hate?

I don't hate Igbos, I am only saying you can't leave after helping to create the mess that Nigeria has become, to allow you to jump ship now will not be fair on the rest of us.

The Igbos are more Nigerians than they would like to believe.

samuk:


I don't hate Igbos, I am only saying you can't leave after helping to create the mess that Nigeria has become, to allow you to jump ship now will not be fair on the rest of us.

The Igbos are more Nigerians than they would like to believe.

So you prefer Igbos remain in this ship for christ-sake?

Let's be fair, can't you see we are not making any progress as a nation but rather retrogressing.

Nobody in this world has gotten freedom by appealing of nature....but that's anyway..


Samuk, can you now proffer solution on way ahead?

I like gathering facts..

MelesZenawi:


So you prefer Igbos remain in this ship for christ-sake?

Let's be fair, can't you see we are not making any progress as a nation but rather retrogressing.

Nobody in this world has gotten freedom by appealing of nature....but that's anyway..


Samuk, can you now proffer solution on way ahead?

I like gathering facts..

With the way things are now, we all must allow nature to takes it's course. Who would have thought that Corona virus will force our elites to start using the same local hospitals as the ordinary people.

Everything has it's expiry date including bad governance.

There are too much mutual suspicions in the land. No tribes trust each other for meaningful renegotiation at the moment but I believe with patience, nature will someday force our hands to collectively do the needful or perished together.

The ordinary people failed to understand that the problem is not necessarily between tribes as the politicians would make us believe but the elite ruling class and the poor.

The real problem of Nigeria is bad governance. The ruling elite comes from all tribes and the poor citizens also come from all tribes.

For those calling for Biafra as solution, what guarantees do you have that the political elites of Biafra will not be just as corrupt as the current Igbo political elites or are you guys saying Igbo governors and politicians are not corrupt.

What stop your current governors and senators from developing the south east and show the rest of the country how to govern properly.

What stop the numerous Igbo billionaire businessmen and politicians coming together to turn the south east into Dubai instead of running to help develop Lagos, Abuja and other cities.

Mistakes where made in the 1960s that we all must learn from and ensure not to repeat.

When the time comes, we all will sit down to renegotiate the country, that time it will be based on equity, equality and fairness, no cheating. Patience is all it will takes.

Biafra going to form it's own independent country will create new and yet to be seen challenges, every tribes in Nigeria are too intertwined either through marriages or otherwise for such a breakup not to create friction and animosities.

What will happen to the numerous Igbo establishments across the country, do you want to become a foreigner in Nigeria? Igbos are said to own nearly 60% of the properties in Abuja alone, have you thought about what will happen to this investments when you become a foreigner in the land.

With little patience, Nigeria will reordered itself.

samuk:


With the way things are now, we all must allow nature to takes it's course. Who would have thought that Corona virus will force our elites to start using the same local hospitals as the ordinary people.

Everything has it's expiry date including bad governance.

There are too much mutual suspicions in the land. No tribes trust each other for meaningful renegotiation at the moment but I believe with patience, nature will someday force our hands to collectively do the needful or perished together.

The ordinary people failed to understand that the problem is not necessarily between tribes as the politicians would make us believe but the elite ruling class and the poor.

The real problem of Nigeria is bad governance. The ruling elite comes from all tribes and the poor citizens also come from all tribes.

For those calling for Biafra as solution, what guarantees do you have that the political elites of Biafra will not be just as corrupt as the current Igbo political elites or are you guys saying Igbo governors and politicians are not corrupt.

What will guarantee them any position . The facts is that the politui elites will be heavily checkmated because it won't be business as usual. Do rubbish and get beaten as even before you run for elections u must think twice.

What stop your current governors and senators from developing the south east and show the rest of the country how to govern properly.

What stop the numerous Igbo billionaire businessmen and politicians coming together to turn the south east into Dubai instead of running to help develop Lagos, Abuja and other cities.

The question looks more hypocritical. First of all Nigeria states are still struggling for development. Secondly you cannot call such development.

Thirdly the answer is simple the Nigeria society makes vital factors of business exchange domiciled in one area. Drop seaport or river port here plus international airport and see who goes around because same issue of shipping would even be made easier for business men and women at their doorstep.

In a new country with all these development will be closer and nearer to the people with business enabling environment.

Mistakes where made in the 1960s that we all must learn from and ensure not to repeat.

When the time comes, we all will sit down to renegotiate the country, that time it will be based on equity, equality and fairness, no cheating. Patience is all it will takes.

Biafra going to form it's own independent country will create new and yet to be seen challenges, every tribes in Nigeria are too intertwined either through marriages or otherwise for such a breakup not to create friction and animosities.

What will happen to the numerous Igbo establishments across the country, do you want to become a foreigner in Nigeria? Igbos are said to own nearly 60% of the properties in Abuja alone, have you thought about what will happen to this investments when you become a foreigner in the land.

With little patience, Nigeria will reordered itself.

Even outside Nigeria samuk, people own properties and pay taxes for their properties. So those in Abuja will learn to adjust and be paying their taxes all time.

Finally saying that with time nature will take it's effect in Nigeria is just a fallacy. Nigeria is totally Irredeemable and highly Irredeemable.

Using Covid-19 as a criteria for them to change is also another pure dream because even worse has happened before and they couldn't change....even this one won't change them.

So looking at all this I think it is advisable for those who should have their way to agitate and escape from the current federal arrangement. The problem in Nigeria is that people don't know what they want. If you bring agitation to their doorstep they will Insult you, if you decide to stay alone and agitate alone, they will term you selfish. These are the exact problems.

People used to say Igbos are dragging them now Igbos decided to fine tune their struggle to Igbos only, you will hear them saying Igbos are selfish.

Let's just say that those who wants to leave should be allowed without bickering, accusations or sort of.


This will reduce all these mutual suspicion in this country.

MelesZenawi:


What will guarantee them any position . The facts is that the politui elites will be heavily checkmated because it won't be business as usual. Do rubbish and get beaten as even before you run for elections u must think twice.



The question looks more hypocritical. First of all Nigeria states are still struggling for development. Secondly you cannot call such development.

Thirdly the answer is simple the Nigeria society makes vital factors of business exchange domiciled in one area. Drop seaport or river port here plus international airport and see who goes around because same issue of shipping would even be made easier for business men and women at their doorstep.

In a new country with all these development will be closer and nearer to the people with business enabling environment.




Even outside Nigeria samuk, people own properties and pay taxes for their properties. So those in Abuja will learn to adjust and be paying their taxes all time.

Finally saying that with time nature will take it's effect in Nigeria is just a fallacy. Nigeria is totally Irredeemable and highly Irredeemable.

Using Covid-19 as a criteria for them to change is also another pure dream because even worse has happened before and they couldn't change....even this one won't change them.

So looking at all this I think it is advisable for those who should have their way to agitate and escape from the current federal arrangement. The problem in Nigeria is that people don't know what they want. If you bring agitation to their doorstep they will Insult you, if you decide to stay alone and agitate alone, they will term you selfish. These are the exact problems.

People used to say Igbos are dragging them now Igbos decided to fine tune their struggle to Igbos only, you will hear them saying Igbos are selfish.

Let's just say that those who wants to leave should be allowed without bickering, accusations or sort of.


This will reduce all these mutual suspicion in this country.

You seems to be suggesting that the current Igbo political elites will have no role to play in the New Biafra.

Let say for example, Nigeria decides to grant the Igbos their Biafra, who do you think they will negotiate the exit with.

Such Igbo exit from Nigeria will be negotiated by your current political leaders.

Do you think after such negotiations they will relinquish their powers to the likes of Nnamdi Kanu or do you think the federal government will negotiate with Kanu to start with.

The only way to then seize power from your current political leaders after you get your Biafra will be through a revolution which will no doubt lead to more bloodshed and turn your new Biafra into a war zone with some of you guys running back to Nigeria as refugees.

Change usually come, but slowly, that is why they say Rome was not built in day.

samuk:


You seems to be suggesting that the current Igbo political elites will have no role to play in the New Biafra.

Let say for example, Nigeria decides to grant the Igbos their Biafra, who do you think they will negotiate the exit with.

Such Igbo exit from Nigeria will be negotiated by your current political leaders.

Do you think after such negotiations they will relinquish their powers to the likes of Nnamdi Kanu or do you think the federal government will negotiate with Kanu to start with.

The only way to then seize power from your current political leaders after you get your Biafra will be through a revolution which will no doubt lead to more bloodshed and turn your new Biafra into a war zone with some of you guys running back to Nigeria as refugees.

Change usually come, but slowly, that is why they say Rome was not built in day.

In short term, Igbo political elites post no threat to Igbos. They can be retired easily.

No bloodshed coz such has not happened before. It is just a figment of your Imagination.

We don't run such society and as such none holds such followership.

So this your particular argument is dismissed. Such politics of blood shed is hard to be seen here in Igboland.

Moreover, Kanu agitates doesn't make him or give right to leadership, a lay down procedures will give rise to a new Government. It is no war.

We don't run societies on kingdoms but on repbo purposes.


Why not allow them go and see if there will be bloodshed anyway...Is a trial.

MelesZenawi:



In short term, Igbo political elites post no threat to Igbos. They can be retired easily.

No bloodshed coz such has not happened before. It is just a figment of your Imagination.

We don't run such society and as such none holds such followership.

So this your particular argument is dismissed. Such politics of blood shed is hard to be seen here in Igboland.

Moreover, Kanu agitates doesn't make him or give right to leadership, a lay down procedures will give rise to a new Government. It is no war.

We don't run societies on kingdoms but on repbo purposes.


Why not allow them go and see if there will be bloodshed anyway...Is a trial.

What have you done so far to demand a better stewardship from your current crops of leaders, oh I forget, you are waiting until you get Biafra before you start demanding accountability from your leaders.

As of today, Imo state workers are yet to receive their February salaries, Abia is still waiting for January salaries, is this also the fault of Nigeria federal government or bad governance from your leaders.

There are states in Nigeria that have already received their March salaries.

If you can not hold your current political leaders to account now, what makes you think you will be able to do it under your utopia Biafra, all I sense from you is wishful thinking and day dreaming. Nothing wrong to day dream, keep it up.

How do you intend to actualized and achieve your Biafra without a standing army of your own, without a political structure and a strong local leader to rally around. You haven't even be able to defend your farmers against the Fulani herdsmen that are destroying their crops and sources of incomes.

How many state did APGAN, your Igbo political party control in the south east.

Are you going to fight the federal government to get Biafra or through political negotiations and under what platform are you going to do that.

How many of your leaders and elites have openly, physically and materially supported the Biafra Agitation.

How many of your traditional rulers have openly supported the actualization of Biafra.

How many of your religious leaders have openly supported Biafra Agitation.

Those calling for Biafra mostly come from 2 categories, the disillusioned majority who are suffering from the inept government and a few charlatans like Kanu who are travelling around the world collect money and enjoying themselves in the name of agitating for Biafra.

Those that truly believe in the Biafra agitation don't have what it takes to actualize it and those that have what it takes are not interested in the agitation, they are rather enjoying themselves in Lagos, Abuja and other Nigeria cities with their millionaires and billionaires friends.

Biafra is a pipe dream which is dead on arrival.

samuk:


What have you done so far to demand a better stewardship from your current crops of leaders, oh I forget, you are waiting until you get Biafra before you start demanding accountability from your leaders.

As of today, Imo state workers are yet to receive their February salaries, Abia is still waiting for January salaries, is this also the fault of Nigeria federal government or bad governance from your leaders.

There are states in Nigeria that have already received their March salaries.

If you can not hold your current political leaders to account now, what makes you think you will be able to do it under your utopia Biafra, all I sense from you is wishful thinking and day dreaming. Nothing wrong to day dream, keep it up.

How do you intend to actualized and achieve your Biafra without a standing army of your own, without a political structure and a strong local leader to rally around. You haven't even be able to defend your farmers against the Fulani herdsmen that are destroying their crops and sources of incomes.

How many state did APGAN, your Igbo political party control in the south east.

Are you going to fight the federal government to get Biafra or through political negotiations and under what platform are you going to do that.

How many of your leaders and elites have openly, physically and materially supported the Biafra Agitation.

How many of your traditional rulers have openly supported the actualization of Biafra.

How many of your religious leaders have openly supported Biafra Agitation.

Those calling for Biafra mostly come from 2 categories, the disillusioned majority who are suffering from the inept government and a few charlatans like Kanu who are travelling around the world collect money and enjoying themselves in the name of agitating for Biafra.

Those that truly believe in the Biafra agitation don't have what it takes to actualize it and those that have what it takes are not interested in the agitation, they are rather enjoying themselves in Lagos, Abuja and other Nigeria cities with their millionaires and billionaires friends.

Biafra is a pipe dream which is dead on arrival.

In simple terms, this is our affairs. Why I hardly meddle into other people's affairs....


Nevertheless, Support Igbo biafra and if finally actualized, all these questions you raised will be addressed as you will be watching from Nigeria.

Support the agitation first and leave the rest as to how it will be handled.

MelesZenawi:



In simple terms, this is our affairs. Why I hardly meddle into other people's affairs....


Nevertheless, Support Igbo biafra and if finally actualized, all these questions you raised will be addressed as you will be watching from Nigeria.

Support the agitation first and leave the rest as to how it will be handled.

You want me to support the agitation that I am sceptical about?

My fear is when you start killing yourselves in Biafra, you will start running to Nigeria as refugees, we don't want that.

Now if you want my support I will give you a little history of how it's done, what you guys are trying to achieve is not rocket science, it has been done peacefully before in Nigeria, we all can still remember what happened when Ojukwu tried to achieve it with force.

Something similar was achieved in 1963 by the midwesterner and this is how they did it.

Brief history of creation of Mid West region of Nigeria.

Before the British left Nigeria, the minorities agitated for their own autonomous regions from the big three regions of East, West and North to take care of the minorities.

The British proposed new regions to be carved out of the West, East and North.

The Mid West which was to be carved out of the West was to cover present day Ondo, Edo and Delta.

The Ogoja/Rivers was to be created from the Eastern/Northern Region.

Now back to creation of mid west region.

The political leaders of the 1960s were more interested in achieving independence for Nigeria rather than the creation of regions, they promised to sort out the creation of regions after independence.

After Nigeria got independence in 1960, the leaders, Awolowo, Zik and Ahmedu Bello were no longer interested in creating more regions because they didn't want their sphere of influence to reduce.

The mid west people lead by the Oba of Benin pressed on but Awolowo flatly refused to support and grant it.

A political platform was created in the yet to be created mid west region for agitation, notable mid west sons such as Okotiebor, Edo-Osagie, Denise Osadebe threw their weight behind the agitation.

The support of the Anioma or Mid West Ibos were easy to secured because majority of them believed they share the same ancestry with the Edos and rest people of Delta.

Haven't secured almost the full support of the people of mid west apart from the then Olu of Itsekiri which Awolowo elevated to Olu of Warri, the agitators needed the support of other regional leaders such as Zik and Ahmedu Bello because the Mid west people couldn't achieve it alone.

After Zik and Bello became the president and prime minister respectively with Awolowo in opposition, the NCNC, Zik party men in Mid West solicited for his support and got it. Don't forget that Zik himself saw himself as a descendant of the old Benin empire as he later revealed in his autobiography years later, so it was easy to support his people.

With Zik on board and in a coalition with the North, it was easy to secure the support of the North and there was nothing Awolowo could do but to give in and Mid West region was actualized.

Mid West region is the only region in Nigeria to come about through referendum of the people. This came about through strong leadership which the Oba of Benin gave, unity of all, everyone that supported it truly believed in it and all saw themselves as brothers and sisters from the same source even though they speak different dialects.

The people agreed that the capital should be in Benin City, where a lot of them believed they descended from and the prime minister from Anioma/mid west Ibo.

After the hard work of achieving the Mid West region in 1963, the Igbos decided to planned a failed coup in 1965 which undo all the hard work of mid westerners and set Nigeria on a downward trajectory since then.

Now if you want Biafra, you have to identify those across southern Nigeria that genuinely want to be part of it and begin to build consensus, you need a political platform, you need a respected leader to rally around, you will have to forge alliances with other regions and convince them why they should support you. There will be a lot of politics involve and your political leaders have to be on top of their games.

The aforementioned is what you need to start to agitate for Biafra.

You don't demand support and expect to get it on a platter of gold, you need to do a lot of work yourself.

Hope the brief of history of how Mid West region was achieved help you in your quest and good luck.

samuk:


You want me to support the agitation that I am sceptical about?

My fear is when you start killing yourselves in Biafra, you will start running to Nigeria as refugees, we don't want that.

Now if you want my support I will give you a little history of how it's done, what you guys are trying to achieve is not rocket science, it has been done before in Nigeria.

Something similar was achieved in 1963 by the midwesterner and this is how they did it.

Brief history of creation of Mid West region of Nigeria.

Before the British left Nigeria, the minorities agitated for their own autonomous regions from the big three regions of East, West and North to take care of the minorities.

The British proposed new regions to be carved out of the West, East and North.

The Mid West which was to be carved out of the West was to cover present day Ondo, Edo and Delta.

The Ogoja/Rivers was to be created from the Eastern/Northern Region.

Now back to creation of mid west region.

The political leaders of the 1960s were more interested in achieving independence for Nigeria rather than the creation of regions, they promised to sort out the creation of regions after independence.

After Nigeria got independence in 1960, the leaders, Awolowo, Zik and Ahmedu Bello were no longer interested in creating more regions because they didn't want their sphere of influence to reduce.

The mid west people lead by the Oba of Benin pressed on but Awolowo flatly refused to support and grant it.

A political platform was created in the yet to be created mid west region for agitation, notable mid west sons such as Okotiebor, Edo-Osagie, Denise Osadebe threw their weight behind the agitation.

The support of the Anioma or Mid West Ibos were easy to secured because majority of them believed they share the same ancestry with the Edos and rest people of Delta.

Haven't secured almost the full support of the people of mid west apart from the then Olu of Itsekiri which Awolowo elevated to Olu of Warri, the agitators needed the support of other regional leaders such as Zik and Ahmedu Bello because the Mid west people couldn't achieve it alone.

After Zik and Bello became the president and prime minister respectively with Awolowo in opposition, the NCNC, Zik party men in Mid West solicited for his support and got it. Don't forget that Zik himself saw himself as a descendant of the old Benin empire as he later revealed in his autobiography years later, so it was easy to support his people.

With Zik on board and in a coalition with the North, it was easy to secure the support of the North and there was nothing Awolowo could do but to give in and Mid West region was actualized.

Mid West region is the only region in Nigeria to come about through referendum of the people. This came about through strong leadership which the Oba of Benin gave, unity of all, everyone that supported it truly believed in it and all saw themselves as brothers and sisters from the same source even though they speak different dialects.

The people agreed that the capital should be in Benin City, where a lot of them believed they descended from and the prime minister from Anioma/mid west Ibo.

After the hard work of achieving the Mid West region in 1963, the Igbos decided to planned a failed coup in 1965 which undo all the hard work of mid westerners and set Nigeria on a downward trajectory since then.

Now if you want Biafra, you have to identify those across southern Nigeria that genuinely want to be part of it and begin to build consensus, you need a political platform, you need a respected leader to rally around, you will have to forge alliances with other regions and convince them why they should support you. There will be a lot of politics involve and your political leaders have to be on top of their games.

The aforementioned is what you need to start to agitate for Biafra.

You don't demand support and expect to get it on a platter of gold, you need to do a lot of work yourself.

Hope the brief of history of how Mid West region was achieved help you in your quest and good luck.

You and this your zik and Benin ancestry..Lol...funy

Anyway you shouldn't be skeptical....about anything but pray for us to succeed...selah


Killing ourselves shouldn't be your concern as such has not been recorded before.

Meanwhile Your submission they solicited for Zik's support and got it......There is this adage that says one good turn deserves another.



If Zik supported you guys back then what is then holding you guys in reciprocating same gesture now that it is highly needed.?

MelesZenawi:



You and this your zik and Benin ancestry..Lol...funy

Anyway you shouldn't be skeptical....about anything but pray for us to succeed...selah


Killing ourselves shouldn't be your concern as such has not been recorded before.

Meanwhile Your submission they solicited for Zik's support and got it......There is this adage that says one good turn deserves another.



If Zik supported you guys back then what is then holding you guys in reciprocating same gesture now that it is highly needed.?

Aside from politics, I already gave you the relationship Zik had with the then mid west region that lead to his support, don't forget that Awolowo refused and worked against the actualization of Mid West region.

Hope you can see how misinformed you guys are when you say the Benin have more in common with the Yorubas.

The Yoruba didn't want the creation of mid west but the midwesterners were able to secure support from Zik an Igbo leader from the east and Northern leaders.

The mid westerners first organised themselves at home before they reached out to others for their supports.

I asked you before how have you guys organised yourselves at home?

Have your political, traditional and religious leaders openly thrown their weight behind Biafra.

I tried to be balanced and realistic as I could in my submissions, don't just pick what suits you from them. The people of mid west did their homework before reaching out for outside support.

Most leaders in then mid west were in support of the agitation. Traditional rulers, religious leaders, political leaders and ordinary people were all in support. Do you have the same consensus and support for Biafra in the east for now.

samuk:


Aside from politics, I already gave you the relationship Zik had with the then mid west region that lead to his support, don't forget that Awolowo refused and worked against the actualization of Mid West region.

Hope you can see how misinformed you guys are when you say the Benin have more in common with the Yorubas.

The Yoruba didn't want the creation of mid west but the midwesterners were able to secure support from Zik an Igbo leader from the east and Northern leaders.

The mid westerners first organised themselves at home before they reached out to others for their supports.

I asked you before how have you guys organised yourselves at home?

Have your political, traditional and religious leaders openly thrown their weight behind Biafra.

I tried to be balanced and realistic as I could in my submissions, don't just pick what suits you from them. The people of mid west did their homework before reaching out for outside support.

Most leaders in then mid west were in support of the agitation. Traditional rulers, religious leaders, political leaders and ordinary people were all in support. Do you have the same consensus and support for Biafra in the east for now.

The ground can only be test-run through yes or No system of voting. Which is the universally accepted pattern.

I feel the reason awolowo didn't want you guys to go is because he couldn't bear to see part of their own flesh cut-off.


Everyone is ready as ever.

So for once reciprocate the good gesture of Zik....

MelesZenawi:



The ground can only be test-run through yes or No system of voting. Which is the universally accepted pattern.

I feel the reason awolowo didn't want you guys to go is because he couldn't bear to see part of their own flesh cut-off.


Everyone is ready as ever.

So for once reciprocate the good gesture of Zik....

Whenever your leaders ask for such support from us, be rest assured we will consider it, but for now they haven't solicited such support from us. All we hear are noises on the internet.

Who are your representatives that want our support.

samuk:


Whenever your leaders ask for such support from us, be rest assured we will consider it, but for now they haven't solicited such support from us. All we hear are noises on the internet.

Who are your representatives that want our support.

Support?
Igbo biafra or the other way round with conditions?

Which one.

Don't be suprise but I have many bini friends...loads of them and they are always antagonistic to biafra as you...so I am not always suprise with most of you guys stance against it on nairaland.....real life is always samething....

Your perception is also what I witness offline....

MelesZenawi:


Support?
Igbo biafra or the other way round with conditions?

Which one.

Don't be suprise but I have many bini friends...loads of them and they are always antagonistic to biafra as you...so I am not always suprise with most of you guys stance against it on nairaland.....real life is always samething....

Your perception is also what I witness offline....

The Benin may not be comfortable with the Idea of Biafra for now because of what happened during the Nigeria civil war.

The Mid west region maintained it's neutrality before the war but at the start of the war, the Biafra army invaded and occupied a neutral Mid West region, commiting atrocities, rapes and the massacre of civilians in Urhonigbe rubber plantation.

When the federal forces entered Benin to liberate the Mid West, the Benin and other midwestern youths were only too eager to enlist into the Nigeria army to liberate their land.

The suspicion that Biafra will not maintain their boundaries is always there.

samuk:


The Benin may not be comfortable with the Idea of Biafra for now because of what happened during the Nigeria civil war.

The Mid west region maintained it's neutrality before the war but at the start of the war, the Biafra army invaded and occupied a neutral Mid West region, commiting atrocities, rapes and the massacre of civilians in Urhonigbe rubber plantation.

When the federal forces entered Benin to liberate the Mid West, the Benin and other midwestern youths were only too eager to enlist into the Nigeria army to liberate their land.

The suspicion that Biafra will not maintain their boundaries is always there.

That's why we are now proposing Igbo natural boundary of only Igbo speaking areas.

No need entering to inconvenience Bini people again and more no more war but diplomacy.

Igbo boundaries remain the answer even you will have nothing to fear.

MelesZenawi:



That's why we are now proposing Igbo natural boundary of only Igbo speaking areas.

No need entering to inconvenience Bini people again and more no more war but diplomacy.

Igbo boundaries remain the answer even you will have nothing to fear.

That's why I said it's up to your leaders and representatives to present their case for support but so far there is hardly any Igbo leader supporting the Biafra struggle.

samuk:


That's why I said it's up to your leaders and representatives to present their case for support but so far there is hardly any Igbo leader supporting the Biafra struggle.

They have always shown support, the media always try to twist their support..

When people like you are always against same struggle both online and offline..and always trying to be vocal..

Igbos geographical location is a big problem to them....That's just the fact... Totally surrounded by many minority tribes.....

MelesZenawi:


They have always shown support, the media always try to twist their support..

When people like you are always against same struggle both online and offline..and always trying to be vocal..

Igbos geographical location is a big problem to them....That's just the fact... Totally surrounded by many minority tribes.....

The minority tribes are not the only problem Igbo have, they also have a serious trust issues with the North due to the events of 1966, the west also don't trust Igbos.

In January 1966 Nigerian coup d'etat led mostly by young Igbo officers. Most of the politicians and senior army officers killed by them were northerners because Northerners were the majority in Nigerias government , including the Prime Minister Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and Ahmadu Bello the Sardauna of Sokoto.

You can see how difficult it will be for you to achieve Biafra.

samuk:


The minority tribes are not the only problem Igbo have, they also have a serious trust issues with the North due to the events of 1966, the west also don't trust Igbos.

In January 1966 Nigerian coup d'etat led mostly by young Igbo officers. Most of the politicians and senior army officers killed by them were northerners because Northerners were the majority in Nigerias government , including the Prime Minister Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and Ahmadu Bello the Sardauna of Sokoto.

You can see how difficult it will be for you to achieve Biafra.

Well since it now over and equity restored to minority.


It is now honourable for Igbos to pull out of the current federal arrangement without threat to anybody or tribe.


The minority tribes remains intact in Nigeria and that's the assurance Nigeria had gotten.

Igbos are not asking for too much if they seek for only Igbo biafra.....It is not something huge to ask for .....I see it as an appeal that should be granted easily.


The problem is lack of foresight by Nigerians to see reasons why such request is necessary.

MelesZenawi:



Well since it now over and equity restored to minority.


It is now honourable for Igbos to pull out of the current federal arrangement without threat to anybody or tribe.


The minority tribes remains intact in Nigeria and that's the assurance Nigeria had gotten.

Igbos are not asking for too much if they seek for only Igbo biafra.....It is not something huge to ask for .....I see it as an appeal that should be granted easily.


The problem is lack of foresight by Nigerians to see reasons why such request is necessary.

Your leaders have to start making these demands through the appropriate authorities and political platforms, your representatives in the national assembly could start raising the issue. Your governors, traditional and religious leaders could start singing in one voice.

The internet is hardly the right platform for such agitation.

samuk:


Your leaders have to start making these demands through the appropriate authorities and political platforms, your representatives in the national assembly could start raising the issue. Your governors, traditional and religious leaders could start singing in one voice.

The internet is hardly the right platform for such agitation.

Leave the leaders.

Both off and online..the agitation is on. Just simply put it that you are totally against it...as I said earlier I am not suprised .

You are really bad at history for a person who claims to be a student of history.
1) where is the link from which you downloaded the map ?
2) since when is oghene synonymous with ife ?

See authentic precolonial maps below, notice they go against your map.

The source is the Bibliothèque nationale de France.
I think you should stop claiming that the European visitors didn't venture away from the coast, that is an obvious lie and for your information, Benin city is not in the coast. Also you were not there so you can't in your right mind say where they went or did not go. It is pure madness. The Europeans had been visiting the region for at least 600 years, it seems rather silly to claim that they never left the coast. Anyway, you want to discredit precolonial maps because they show the reality of Benin empire and the falseness of ife village and small and young ife kingdom. Those truths you do not want exposed. Keep on calling ife "oghene" and posting maps with no sources...that will rewrite history for you.

You are really bad at history for a person who claims to be a student of history.
1) where is the link from which you downloaded the map ? This information is important in order to verify the authenticity of the map before further talk.
2) since when is oghene synonymous with ife ?
3) on that map, you have a regnum orgaen, how does that translate to oghene ?and how does oghene translate to ife ?

See authentic precolonial maps below, notice they go against your map.

The source is the Bibliothèque nationale de France.
I think you should stop claiming that the European visitors didn't venture away from the coast, that is an obvious lie and for your information, Benin city is not in the coast. Also you were not there so you can't in your right mind say where they went or did not go. It is pure madness. The Europeans had been visiting the region for at least 600 years, it seems rather silly to claim that they never left the coast. Anyway, you want to discredit precolonial maps because they show the reality of Benin empire and the falseness of ife village and small and young ife kingdom. Those truths you do not want exposed. Keep on calling ife "oghene" and posting maps with no sources...that will rewrite history for you.

Precolonial maps of Benin Kingdom:

Some of the maps:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7759521n.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b846939

Also, how you came to the conclusion of your map being "the best" is beyond imagination. All the precolonial maps which I posted are authentic and way better looking and more accurate than your "the best map".

macof:


Shiver99 is quite correct. You don't have to have existed in the past or read minds to tell things that can be identified with study and common sense
If in 2020, you still think 16th-18th century Europeans knew enough about African empires and states then you have a problem my man.
How do you expect people who never left the coast to know enough about big empires and wealthy Kings in the hinterlands?

European sources of that period have been studied and most details found to be misconceptions and errors. Even kingdoms that they heard about from the coast were mispositioned on the map or given too much territory on the map


Here is a 16th century map of africa by Sebastian Münster....the best (compared to other maps) i have seen of this period, yet even filled with so much errors.
let me give you just one interesting example...
right around the middle you can see Regnum Organe which refers to Ile-ife (ie. kingdom of the Oghene). The kingdom is awfully mispositioned and given a territory that boarders Nubia, it is also futher north than Mali (Regnum Melli)

Think about it, it's not a difficult situation to understand

Just a precolonial map of West Africa.

Map from 1890

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b59697312/f1.item.r=royaume%20du%20b%C3%A9nin.zoom

Map from 1884

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b5970138c/f1.item.r=royaume%20du%20b%C3%A9nin.zoom

ghostwon:
You are really bad at history for a person who claims to be a student of history.
1) where is the link from which you downloaded the map ? This information is important in order to verify the authenticity of the map before further talk.
2) since when is oghene synonymous with ife ?
3) on that map, you have a regnum orgaen, how does that translate to oghene ?and how does oghene translate to ife ?

See authentic precolonial maps below, notice they go against your map.

The source is the Bibliothèque nationale de France.
I think you should stop claiming that the European visitors didn't venture away from the coast, that is an obvious lie and for your information, Benin city is not in the coast. Also you were not there so you can't in your right mind say where they went or did not go. It is pure madness. The Europeans had been visiting the region for at least 600 years, it seems rather silly to claim that they never left the coast. Anyway, you want to discredit precolonial maps because they show the reality of Benin empire and the falseness of ife village and small and young ife kingdom. Those truths you do not want exposed. Keep on calling ife "oghene" and posting maps with no sources...that will rewrite history for you.

Precolonial maps of Benin Kingdom:

Some of the maps:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7759521n.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b846939

Also, how you came to the conclusion of your map being "the best" is beyond imagination. All the precolonial maps which I posted are authentic and way better looking and more accurate than your "the best map".

And you spend too much time discussing history for a person who claims to be a mathematician. At least I am in my field and know exactly what I say
You are no historian and not even a genuine enthusiast for that matter, reason you jump to attack whatever doesn't fit your ignorant bigotry

Well here's the sources you asked for
1. https://www.vintage-maps.com/en/antique-maps/africa/muenster-africa-1540-1574::1297

And in my defense to my claim of the map being the best of its time.. In the link it is written in German "allen Künigreichen so zu unseren Zeiten darin [in Afrika] gefunden werden"
Meaning the map shows all sovereign Kingsdom known to the Germans during this time. Notice Benin kingdom is not even considered sovereign hence not on the map

So I am not the only one who thinks the map is the best of its time but the archives do too.... I have seen other maps from the 16th century so I know.
Here is another one, this one by Laurent Fries.
Here we see Regnum Orguene ie. the Kingdom of the Oghene
https://www.vintage-maps.com/en/antique-maps/africa/north-africa/fries-north-africa-1525::11887

It appears Benin was not even considered a kingdom of its own by most europeans as late as the 16th century but Ife had been on their maps since the 14th century Catalan Atlas, eventhough they never set foot in ife, they heard of it's great God-king

2 & 3. See picture below
1. Pic: Screenshot from "Studies in Urhobo Culture" by Peter Palmer Ekeh... this shows that The name "Oghene" is used by several people to refer to the King of Ife.
Oghene is simply a dialectical version of Ooni... Ooni/Owoni/Oghoni/Oghone/Oghene/Oghane are all various african forms of the title which Europeans wrote as Organe/Organa

2. Pic: Screenshoot from "Art in Ancient Ife: Birthplace of the Yoruba" by Suzanne Blier....this also mentions the spanish map of 1375 which shows Organa below the river Niger. Theories abound as to what Kingdom this is but if this is the same Organe the Portuguese heard from Benin then it is safe to assume the Organa of this map is same Ife