macof:


And you spend too much time discussing history for a person who claims to be a mathematician. At least I am in my field and know exactly what I say
You are no historian and not even a genuine enthusiast for that matter, reason you jump to attack whatever doesn't fit your ignorant bigotry

Well here's the sources you asked for
1. https://www.vintage-maps.com/en/antique-maps/africa/muenster-africa-1540-1574::1297

And in my defense to my claim of the map being the best of its time.. In the link it is written in German "allen Künigreichen so zu unseren Zeiten darin [in Afrika] gefunden werden"
Meaning the map shows all sovereign Kingsdom known to the Germans during this time. Notice Benin kingdom is not even considered sovereign hence not on the map

So I am not the only one who thinks the map is the best of its time but the archives do too.... I have seen other maps from the 16th century so I know.
Here is another one, this one by Laurent Fries. It appears Benin was not even considered a kingdom of its own by europeans as late as the 16th century but Ife had been on their maps since the 14th century

2.
3. Refer to No. 2

Reply :

ghostwon:
You are really bad at history for a person who claims to be a student of history.
1) where is the link from which you downloaded the map ? This information is important in order to verify the authenticity of the map before further talk.
2) since when is oghene synonymous with ife ?
3) on that map, you have a regnum orgaen, how does that translate to oghene ?and how does oghene translate to ife ?

See authentic precolonial maps below, notice they go against your map.

The source is the Bibliothèque nationale de France.
I think you should stop claiming that the European visitors didn't venture away from the coast, that is an obvious lie and for your information, Benin city is not in the coast. Also you were not there so you can't in your right mind say where they went or did not go. It is pure madness. The Europeans had been visiting the region for at least 600 years, it seems rather silly to claim that they never left the coast. Anyway, you want to discredit precolonial maps because they show the reality of Benin empire and the falseness of ife village and small and young ife kingdom. Those truths you do not want exposed. Keep on calling ife "oghene" and posting maps with no sources...that will rewrite history for you.

Precolonial maps of Benin Kingdom:

Some of the maps:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7759521n.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b846939

Also, how you came to the conclusion of your map being "the best" is beyond imagination. All the precolonial maps which I posted are authentic and way better looking and more accurate than your "the best map".

1) the authenticity of your map hasn't been proven, the website holding it doesn't belong to any trustworthy institution.
2) the name ife is not in the map
3) Regnvm orgvene doesn't translate to ife.
4) As you have failed to notice, claiming you know is not sufficient, you have to prove your point.
And up to now all you have shown has been pro-Yoruba unsubstatited claims.
Where I am from, just saying I studied history, so just believe me doesn't work. Produce proof that is all I ask.

Also, if the europeans had met ife under an other name, how come no european museum or library makes that claim ?
Let me guess, you are about to misquote that american idiot specialized in yoruba art and discussing the mythical figure of prester john.

It is a well known fact that the portuguese were the first europeans to visit west africa and they were most impressed by Benin empire, so much that they exchanged embassadors with Benin empire and also named the Bight of Benin "Bight of Benin" on their map.

If you are a student of history then either you guys in nigeria are getting a new kind of history unknown to the rest of mankind which relies on lies and ethno centic paranoya either you are just a bloody liar hoping to confuse others with smooth lies which won't pass the detector with me.

An other precolonial map:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595153t/f1.item.zoom

I have indepedently authenticaated the map you posted here as not being a forgery by you or some other folks. Although we can all agree it is a poorly made map. Eventhough you have decided to call it "the best map". It was published in 1542. It doesn't mention your beloved and illusive ife.

Here is a map published in 1570, much more precise and spot Benin Empire on it

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/64869/africae-tabula-nova-ortelius

1606

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/35435bp/guineae-nova-descriptio-hondius

ghostwon:


Reply :



1) the authenticity of your map hasn't been proven, the website holding it doesn't belong to any trustworthy institution.
2) the name ife is not in the map
3) Regnvm orgvene doesn't translate to ife.
4) As you have failed to notice, claiming you know is not sufficient, you have to prove your point.
And up to now all you have shown has been pro-Yoruba unsubstatited claims.
Where I am from, just saying I studied history, so just believe me doesn't work. Produce proof that is all I ask.

You are on some real shit if the Götzfried Antique Maps is not reliable enough for you. You can send them an email or travel to germany to visit their office.. shey you claim to live in france

Regnum Orguene by the conclusion of many African historians does refer to Ife.
Your ignorance of this is not the yardstick, that you are not aware of this does not stop it from being a well accepted theory by historians

Also, if the europeans had met ife under an other name, how come no european museum or library makes that claim ?
Let me guess, you are about to misquote that american idiot specialized in yoruba art and discussing the mythical figure of prester john.

It is a well known fact that the portuguese were the first europeans to visit west africa and they were most impressed by Benin empire, so much that they exchanged embassadors with Benin empire and also named the Bight of Benin "Bight of Benin" on their map.

If you are a student of history then either you guys in nigeria are getting a new kind of history unknown to the rest of mankind which relies on lies and ethno centic paranoya either you are just a bloody liar hoping to confuse others with smooth lies which won't pass the detector with me.

ghostwon:
I have indepedently authenticaated the map you posted here as not being a forgery by you or some other folks. Although we can all agree it is a poorly made map. Eventhough you have decided to call it "the best map". It was published in 1542. It doesn't mention your beloved and illusive ife.

Here is a map published in 1570, much more precise and spot Benin Empire on it

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/64869/africae-tabula-nova-ortelius

wheather you like or not claim i forged the map
funny how earlier you were ranting as to how european maps are just final on african history, i gave you maps showing you a yoruba kingdom and then for the first time you tried to debunk your european masters

for the record my aim of using maps with you is to teach you something your small mind never realized and that is...european maps are no proper sources because they leave out a lot of details and often misposition the kingdoms they mention in their maps... because all they knew was what they were told about the hinterland since they did not leave the coast to venture into the rain forests. it was not until the 19th century armed with Chloroquine to fight off malaria that they began to get the whole idea of what those kingdoms away from the coast were really like.

but even at that ... "Malaria once turned Africa into the "missionaries' graveyard" as many European missionary personnel and families perished planting the Gospel in the Continent in the 19th century." https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271105124_The_19th_Century_European_Missionaries_and_the_Fight_Against_Malaria_in_Africa
so if as at the 19th century, european missionaries were dying like chickens, what makes you think european traders could and explorers could go far and wide in the african hinterlands for centuries before that

"Overall, European exploration of Africa in the 17th and 18th centuries was very limited. Instead they were focused on the slave trade, which only required coastal bases and items to trade. The real exploration of the African interior would start well into the 19th century."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_exploration_of_Africa

But since european maps are like your bible
Here is another map showing the presence of the Yoruba
This one is from your link
https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/59159/libya-interior-and-malta-honter : showing Orguene much closer south than the other maps that project it futher north. And I don't see a Benin in this Map
will you condemn this map too

Here is a geography dictionary from the website you shared almost all your links from
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k9808606s/f769.image.r=Ulcuma?rk=21459;2 - Ulcuma/Ulcami (Lukumi) refers to Yorubaland.....you claim to live in france you should understand french right? it says Ulcuma is at the coast of guinea in between Arder (Allada, Dahomey) and Benin

here you can see Oulcoumi and Jabou in a 1743 map by Homann Heirs


picture: screenshot from "Roots of Cuban Blacks" Jorge and Isabella Castellanos

You spend so much time arguing stupidly on historical topics, you have called historians all sorts of names but imagine a Jobless guy like you wanting to teach historians their job. Get tha fvck outta here

macof:


You are on some real shit if the Götzfried Antique Maps is not reliable enough for you. You can send them an email or travel to germany to visit their office.. shey you claim to live in france

You have some serious mental problems.
Where did you see me debunking the map ? It is a fact that it is a very badly made map, or did this escape your scrutini ?
I independently verified the map's authenticity because you were unable to prove it yourself. I took upon me the job of authenticating the map which you posted. When I had done that, rather than tell lies the way you yari.ba always do, I came and said: " I have independently authenticated the map". It seems that that has rushed s lot of blood to your head. And now you are saying illogical things and making yet some other unsubstantiated claims.

One fact remains, all the maps I posted were much more accurate than your Best map.

On the matter of Orgvene. This is getting tiring, merely repeating a claim is not the same thing as proving it.
You claim Orgvene is ife. Then just price it ! Or is that so difficult ? Does the spelling of ife and that of Orgvene look alike ? Or is there any historical document which proves your case ? No, your proof is: "many African historians believe it". Well with this kind of reasoning I can claim to be the king of the world. (Many African historians believe it). Orgvene is not ife and it might very much be a fictional name given that actual serious and way more accurate maps do not show Orgvene.

It seems you have poo in your head and eyes:

1) France is on lockdown
2) Germany is also on lockdown
3) Jebu didn't consider itself Yoruba until the colonial era when Nigerian politics got involved and the creation of a big new political tribe was the order of the day. Jebu always saw Yoruba as inferior.
4) the fact remains that no early map shows ife as you want to claim.
5) the map which you posted is a fictional one which was made while some allucinating Europeans were looking for a mythical figure (prester John) whom they first tried to locate in Asia then in Africa.
6) your claim that Europeans didn't venture into the interior I'd Africa relies on Wikipedia and on the claim either true or false that missionaries had difficulties in the 18th century. When will you stop making self serving claims and rather focus on facts ? Given the precisions of the maps (the ones I keep posting) and the texts which accompany them, the map makers traveled wide. And made maps of what they saw. Nice of you to show a fictional map which you called "best map" because your aim is to discredit all the maps since they don't show your mythical ife, and to discredit all the maps, you claim the fictional and discredited one is the best. Your brain is not very sofisticated.

macof:


You are on some real shit if the Götzfried Antique Maps is not reliable enough for you. You can send them an email or travel to germany to visit their office.. shey you claim to live in france

Regnum Orguene by the conclusion of many African historians does refer to Ife.
Your ignorance of this is not the yardstick, that you are not aware of this does not stop it from being a well accepted theory by historians



wheather you like or not claim i forged the map
funny how earlier you were ranting as to how european maps are just final on african history, i gave you maps showing you a yoruba kingdom and then for the first time you tried to debunk your european masters

for the record my aim of using maps with you is to teach you something your small mind never realized and that is...european maps are no proper sources because they leave out a lot of details and often misposition the kingdoms they mention in their maps... because all they knew was what they were told about the hinterland since they did not leave the coast to venture into the rain forests. it was not until the 19th century armed with Chloroquine to fight off malaria that they began to get the whole idea of what those kingdoms away from the coast were really like.

but even at that ... "Malaria once turned Africa into the "missionaries' graveyard" as many European missionary personnel and families perished planting the Gospel in the Continent in the 19th century." https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271105124_The_19th_Century_European_Missionaries_and_the_Fight_Against_Malaria_in_Africa
so if as at the 19th century, european missionaries were dying like chickens, what makes you think european traders could and explorers could go far and wide in the african hinterlands for centuries before that





But since european maps are like your bible
Here is another map showing the presence of the Yoruba
This one is from your link
https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/59159/libya-interior-and-malta-honter : showing Orguene much closer south than the other maps that project it futher north. And I don't see a Benin in this Map
will you condemn this map too

Here is a geography dictionary from the website you shared almost all your links from
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k9808606s/f769.image.r=Ulcuma?rk=21459;2 - Ulcuma/Ulcami (Lukumi) refers to Yorubaland.....you claim to live in france you should understand french right? it says Ulcuma is at the coast of guinea in between Arder (Allada, Dahomey) and Benin

here you can see Oulcoumi and Jabou in a 1743 map by Homann Heirs


picture: screenshot from "Roots of Cuban Blacks" Jorge and Isabella Castellanos

You spend so much time arguing stupidly on historical topics, you have called historians all sorts of names but imagine a Jobless guy like you wanting to teach historians their job. Get tha fvck outta here

ghostwon:


You have some serious mental problems.
Where did you see me debunking the map ? It is a fact that it is a very badly made map, or did this escape your scrutini ?
I independently verified the map's authenticity because you were unable to prove it yourself. I took upon me the job of authenticating the map which you posted. When I had done that, rather than tell lies the way you yari.ba always do, I came and said: " I have independently authenticated the map". It seems that that has rushed s lot of blood to your head. And now you are saying illogical things and making yet some other unsubstantiated claims.

One fact remains, all the maps I posted were much more accurate than your Best map.

On the matter of Orgvene. This is getting tiring, merely repeating a claim is not the same thing as proving it.
You claim Orgvene is ife. Then just price it ! Or is that so difficult ? Does the spelling of ife and that of Orgvene look alike ? Or is there any historical document which proves your case ? No, your proof is: "many African historians believe it". Well with this kind of reasoning I can claim to be the king of the world. (Many African historians believe it). Orgvene is not ife and it might very much be a fictional name given that actual serious and way more accurate maps do not show Orgvene.

You are sick and really a waste of time
This one has drowned in the sea of Bini ignorance and bigotry

You first called out the map despite giving you links to the map.
Do you have amnesia? Was this not your comment?

the authenticity of your map hasn't been proven, the website holding it doesn't belong to any trustworthy institution.

wasn't until you realised that the institution was from your European masters that you came with the nonsense "I've authenticated it" who tha fvck are you as if facts depend on your sentiments in the first place, whether you like take it or leave
"Serious way more accurate maps do not show Orguene"?? (the "v" is latin for "u" Dumbass ) then since you know more than historians please do our job, find what kingdom Orguene is
I thought your European masters were the know it all whose maps are the final say
So now I've made you begin to distrust your masters?

macof:


You are sick and really a waste of time
This one has drowned in the sea of Bini ignorance and bigotry

You first called out the map despite giving you links to the map, wasn't until you realised that the institution was from your European masters that you came with the nonsense "I've authenticated it" who tha fvck are you as if facts depend on your sentiments in the first place, whether you like take it or leave
"Serious way more accurate maps do not show Orguene"?? (the "v" is latin for "u" Dumbass ) then since you know more than historians please do our job, find what kingdom Orguene is
I thought your European masters were the know it all whose maps are the final say
So now I've made you begin to distrust your masters?

It is weird that you can't make a sentence without swearing at me. I attribute this to your lack of actual arguments on your part. Insults seem to be your arguments.

I am not on a debate about Latin. I spell words the way they are written, I don't attempt nonsensical translations of words from Latin to an unknown language, I leave that to the bullshitters like you.

Orgvene is most likely what I have already stated it to be.
Still no ife on the maps
Still no "Yoruba" on the early maps. Nor even "oyo" while they all show "Benin" and "Mali". Jebu is even present, but no "ife" instead you have to claim "Orgvene" is actually "ife". Well isn't it surprising that Benin and Mali and Jebu and Kano which appear on early maps are not called other names and needing of "theories" to change way different names into theirs.

Joker, still no ife in early maps.

macof:


wasn't until you realised that the institution was from your European masters that you came with the nonsense "I've authenticated it" who tha fvck are you as if facts depend on your sentiments in the first place, whether you like take it or leave
"

Now, you are starting to sound very mentally ill.
This your statement doesn't even make sense unless you believe you are reading my mind and somehow that you are in my brain. We are thousands of kilometres apart fool. Were you under the impression that I thought the map was made by "ancient Yoruba" ?
It is European written languages in the map, right ?


Let me explain you what authenticating actually means:

Getting the date of publication. The real date of publication, it is not even about who drew the map, European, Asian, African, even extra terrestrial (this one is a joke, I wouldn't need to add this precision I'd I were talking to an intelligent person which you are not)... It is all about the date of publication.

ghostwon:


It is weird that you can't make a sentence without swearing at me. I attribute this to your lack of actual arguments on your part. Insults seem to be your arguments.

I am not on a debate about Latin. I spell words the way they are written, I don't attempt nonsensical translations of words from Latin to an unknown language, I leave that to the bullshitters like you.

Orgvene is most likely what I have already stated it to be.
Still no ife on the maps
Still no "Yoruba" on the early maps. Nor even "oyo" while they all show "Benin" and "Mali". Jebu is even present, but no "ife" instead you have to claim "Orgvene" is actually "ife". Well isn't it surprising that Benin and Mali and Jebu and Kano which appear on early maps are not called other names and needing of "theories" to change way different names into theirs.

Joker, still no ife in early maps.

Oh you can't take your own medicine? After all your personal attacks you want to act like a victim here because you have no other sensible point to make
I came at you nicely only for you to begin your personal attacks

As I've said you are too ignorant for me to have a proper discussion with.
You show truly that history is not your area and you have little to no business arguing what you don't know
Common sense should even tell you this

A person who knows basic history would know that Europeans butchered the names of places
Benin is a wrong name, it is Ibini
Melly is wrong it is Mali
Jabou is wrong it is Ijebu

At a Time when Yorùbáland had no uniform name, referring to this area by a popular nomen Lukumi albeit wrongly putting it as "Ulcami" is not extraordinary
Referring to Ife by its King is not extraordinary

Wagadu is called Ghana by Europeans eventhough Gana was the title of its kings
So Ife called Organe or Orguene by Europeans is obviously in reference to the Oghene of Ife

I've given you an assignment... Since you think Orguene is not Ife and you are the grand authority of all historical knowledge now, go and find what kingdom it is

ghostwon:
It seems you have poo in your head and eyes:

1) France is on lockdown
2) Germany is also on lockdown
3) Jebu didn't consider itself Yoruba until the colonial era when Nigerian politics got involved and the creation of a big new political tribe was the order of the day. Jebu always saw Yoruba as inferior.
4) the fact remains that no early map shows ife as you want to claim.
5) the map which you posted is a fictional one which was made while some allucinating Europeans were looking for a mythical figure (prester John) whom they first tried to locate in Asia then in Africa.
6) your claim that Europeans didn't venture into the interior I'd Africa relies on Wikipedia and on the claim either true or false that missionaries had difficulties in the 18th century. When will you stop making self serving claims and rather focus on facts ? Given the precisions of the maps (the ones I keep posting) and the texts which accompany them, the map makers traveled wide. And made maps of what they saw. Nice of you to show a fictional map which you called "best map" because your aim is to discredit all the maps since they don't show your mythical ife, and to discredit all the maps, you claim the fictional and discredited one is the best. Your brain is not very sofisticated.

Then email them or call them to buy the map.

The details and description of those maps are vivid. Your so called "authentic maps" don't even have a description.. None of the links you share or maps you post have a description or publisher or is the name of the cartographer known

I posted maps with full details and you have been switching from "not authentic" to "ok I've authenticated it" back to "not authentic"
I've never seen you so confused about your beloved European maps
If any maps are fictional it is the ones you post. Because you are yet to give us a full description of the maps

I've posted maps as early as the 14th century showing Ife, the earliest maps you have shown of Benin is the 17th century
Who got the earliest maps now?

I'm done with you dummy

Nice one macof!

Keep up the great service. I will also be joining in to this debate in the nearest time.

Keep schooling the deliberately ignorant Edo slave of the Yorubas, that is, ghostwon --- whom I have beaten blue and black so much as to cause him to dissociate himself from his prolog3111 account.

It appears it is hightime he dissociated himself from this ghostwon account as well.

One thing you can be sure of is that, he feels extremely inferior to you for your being Yoruba, but at the same time he is a diagnosed mythomaniac.

Encountering a Yoruba persons brings him agonizing memories of the conquest of yore which he is nevertheless stuck with as an Edo.

I kind of understand his frustrations to be frank, despite often using him for entertainment and leisure.

But what he needs to realize as a matter of urgency is that the quantum of quality schooling he has received at our hands --- as proud and noble Yorubas that we are --- can severely damage and destroy his self-inflicted ignorance.

ghostwon aka prolog3111, you can't continue living a lie, or can you?

macof:


Oh you can't take your own medicine? After all your personal attacks you want to act like a victim here because you have no other sensible point to make
I came at you nicely only for you to begin your personal attacks

As I've said you are too ignorant for me to have a proper discussion with.
You show truly that history is not your area and you have little to no business arguing what you don't know
Common sense should even tell you this

A person who knows basic history would know that Europeans butchered the names of places
Benin is a wrong name, it is Ibini
Melly is wrong it is Mali
Jabou is wrong it is Ijebu

1) you actually have no logical arguments, you replace that with insults
2) The fact I specialize in mathematics does not in any way imply I don't know history, and certainly not that I don't know history better than you, I am way better than you in the field of history.
3) Benin was never called "ibini", that is just a story not history. History records Benin as Benin ! The "ibini" story is just a tale written online and repeated by fools who know nothing about history and confuse Google with an institution of higher learning
4)Melly and Mali are pretty much the same so are Jebu and Ijebu. You are getting out of your way to convince that Orgvene and ife are the same, yet you have produced no proof.
Europeans who made the maps had different languages and their spellings differ because of that. Also I would have you know that your argument is rather stupid because we in the region had no written language until the colonial era, therefor it is stupid to claim an other spelling is more accurate than the European ones.

5) I would not go into "wagadu", legends and fairytales are not my cup of tea, I know you confuse legends and fairytales with actual history.
6) I have already told you Orgvene is most likely a fictional name since the map on which it appears is a work of fiction.

macof:


Then email them or call them to buy the map.

The details and description of those maps are vivid. Your so called "authentic maps" don't even have a description.. None of the links you share or maps you post have a description or publisher or is the name of the cartographer known

I posted maps with full details and you have been switching from "not authentic" to "ok I've authenticated it" back to "not authentic"
I've never seen you so confused about your beloved European maps
If any maps are fictional it is the ones you post. Because you are yet to give us a full description of the maps

I've posted maps as early as the 14th century showing Ife, the earliest maps you have shown of Benin is the 17th century
Who got the earliest maps now?

I'm done with you dummy

First of all, all the maps I posted were attached to a description and are kept in the most important libraries and museums in the world (Bibliothèque nationale de France being one of them). It is not my fault that you do not know how to use a computer to look at the description. Below you will see an example of how to look at the description.

Let the argument end coz Bini whether na Ibini and Yorubas are blood brothers that can't be separated no matter the argument.

An Edo man sees himself as a Yoruba man and vice versa because blood is thicker than water.

Cc
macof
ghostwon
TAO11

Blame the white man for this unnecessary argument with their maps.

ghostwon:


First of all, all the maps I posted were attached to a description and are kept in the most important libraries and museums in the world (Bibliothèque nationale de France being one of them). It is not my fault that you do not know how to use a computer to look at the description. Below you will see an example of how to look at the description.

Good finally you provide descriptions. The other points remain the same

Even on the same map

There are two Yoruba kingdoms
Popo and Ijebu (Jabou)

macof:


Then email them or call them to buy the map.

The details and description of those maps are vivid. Your so called "authentic maps" don't even have a description.. None of the links you share or maps you post have a description or publisher or is the name of the cartographer known

I posted maps with full details and you have been switching from "not authentic" to "ok I've authenticated it" back to "not authentic"
I've never seen you so confused about your beloved European maps
If any maps are fictional it is the ones you post. Because you are yet to give us a full description of the maps

I've posted maps as early as the 14th century showing Ife, the earliest maps you have shown of Benin is the 17th century
Who got the earliest maps now?

I'm done with you dummy

You are blatantly lying once again, the earliest map which you posted was published in 1542. That is the 16th century (not the 14th) and it didn't validate any of your claims. I didn't say it wasn't authentic, rather I said you had not proven its authenticity, which I went in to prove on my own since you were incapable of even understanding the word "authentic" talkless of proving the authenticity of the map.

Also I posted a map published in 1570 (see below). That is merely 28 years after the publication of the one which you posted, that is also the 16th century.
The difference being that my map is way more accurate, and non fictional contrary to your "best map"

ghostwon:
I have indepedently authenticaated the map you posted here as not being a forgery by you or some other folks. Although we can all agree it is a poorly made map. Eventhough you have decided to call it "the best map". It was published in 1542. It doesn't mention your beloved and illusive ife.

Here is a map published in 1570, much more precise and spot Benin Empire on it

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/64869/africae-tabula-nova-ortelius

The map which I posted below:

Osagyefo98:
Let the argument end coz Bini whether na Ibini and Yorubas are blood brothers that can't be separated no matter the argument.

An Edo man sees himself as a Yoruba man and vice versa because blood is thicker than water.

Cc
macof
ghostwon
TAO11

Blame the white man for this unnecessary argument with their maps.

The guy is ignorant and extremely deluded
Once upon a time he thought nobody could use maps to knock try to knock his delusions out
Now he is saying some maps are fiction
What a transition...from European maps are the holies of holies to "erm, any map that shows a Yoruba kingdom is fiction"
Mad people everywhere

macof:


The guy is ignorant and extremely deluded
Once upon a time he thought nobody could use maps to knock try to knock his delusions out
Now he is saying some maps are fiction
What a transition...from European maps are the holies of holies to "erm, any map that shows a Yoruba kingdom is fiction"
Mad people everywhere

It seems you are a little bit confused.
It is true that some years ago, you were unable to use actual authentic maps in your speech. You didn't know where to find them. It is not my fault that you were even more incompetent than you are now.

I have never claimed that "any map showing Yoruba is fictional". I have actually posted precolonial maps showing oyo (Not that early, 18th century) and even one showing ife ( 19th century).

Your level has improved, in the fact that you were actually able to produce an authentic map for once, although a fictional one which still doesn't show ife.

Your reasoning faculties haven't improved. And your honesty hasn't either.
You are growing up, but you are still a toddler compared to me. Actually, when I am unwell and incapable of doing my usual deep reasoning like I do when doing complex mathematics, I am still a billion times smarter than you in your best.

macof:

Good finally you provide descriptions. The other points remain the same

Even on the same map

There are two Yoruba kingdoms
Popo and Ijebu (Jabou)

Actually the descriptions have always been there, as I said, it is not my fault you can't use your computer correctly.

ghostwon:


1) you actually have no logical arguments, you replace that with insults
2) The fact I specialize in mathematics does not in any way imply I don't know history, and certainly not that I don't know history better than you, I am way better than you in the field of history.
3) Benin was never called "ibini", that is just a story not history. History records Benin as Benin ! The "ibini" story is just a tale written online and repeated by fools who know nothing about history and confuse Google with an institution of higher learning
4)Melly and Mali are pretty much the same so are Jebu and Ijebu. You are getting out of your way to convince that Orgvene and ife are the same, yet you have produced no proof.
Europeans who made the maps had different languages and their spellings differ because of that. Also I would have you know that your argument is rather stupid because we in the region had no written language until the colonial era, therefor it is stupid to claim an other spelling is more accurate than the European ones.

5) I would not do e into wagadu, legends and fairytales are not my cup of tea, I know you confuse legends and fairytales with actual history.
6) I have already told you Orgvene is most likely a fictional name since the map on which it appears is a work of fiction.

Osagyefo98:
Let the argument end coz Bini whether na Ibini and Yorubas are blood brothers that can't be separated no matter the argument.

An Edo man sees himself as a Yoruba man and vice versa because blood is thicker than water.

Cc
macof
ghostwon
TAO11

Blame the white man for this unnecessary argument with their maps.

Please keep your ignorant mouth shot, I know you to be a pro Igbo biggot always ready to not only devide Edo amongst themselves but to also claim their subset in Benin city is yoruba, all this in order to claim Delta state as Igbo territory.
So shot the fvck up.
Even the name which you are using is of Edo origin, fool. Efe is also part of my name.

ghostwon:

Please keep your ignorant mouth shot, I know you to be a pro Igbo biggot always ready to not only devide Edo amongst themselves but to also claim their subset in Benin city is yoruba, all this in order to claim Delta state as Igbo territory.
So shot the fvck up.
Even the name which you are using is of Edo origin, fool. Efe is also part of my name.

Osagyefo means Great and it is not a bini word rather a Ghanaian word.

Sam loco Efe is a bini man that resides in Igboland and can speak igbo very well. We can't use because he speaks igbo but from Edo to say Edos are Igbo...How will the logic sound in your ear?

Secondly I didn't remember claiming Delta as igbo territory.... moreover aniomas are Igbos and not Edos.

Edos are Urhobo and Itshekiris.

Osagyefo98:


Osagyefo means Great and it is not a bini word rather a Ghanaian word.

Sam loco Efe is a bini man that resides in Igboland and can speak igbo very well. We can't use because he speaks igbo but from Edo to say Edos are Igbo...How will the logic sound in your ear?

Secondly I didn't remember claiming Delta as igbo territory.... moreover aniomas are Igbos and not Edos.

Edos are Urhobo and Itshekiris.

Aniomas are and will always be Edo. It seems you are not aware that the British exiled some Edo chiefs to what is now called Ghana also, the precolonial links in the region seem to place a part of what is now Ghana as subteritory to Benin empire.

But I am sure you know all this, you are on your agenda of trying to allienate Edo from their land and claim it for Igbo.
You think I didn't see so many of your posts in which you were cursing at Edos in general and showing all your hatred ?
Who are you decieving ?

Chief Acho Obaseki of Benin: an Anioma !
The name of one of his sons: Efesogie !

ghostwon:


Aniomas are and will always be Edo. It seems you are not aware that the British exiled some Edo chiefs to what is now called Ghana also, the precolonial links in the region seem to place a part of what is now Ghana as subteritory to Benin empire.

But I am sure you know all this, you are on your agenda of trying to allienate Edo from their land and claim it for Igbo.
You think I didn't see so many of your posts in which you were cursing at Edos in general and showing all your hatred ?
Who are you decieve ?

How can I alienate someone that speaks Igbo, bears Igbo names, studies igbo language in school...gives their children igbo names and has Obi as title of their kings or okpalauku as their head..

How can I alienate people that are Igbos already?
how?

ghostwon:



You think I didn't see so many of your posts in which you were cursing at Edos in general and showing all your hatred ?
Who are you decieving ?

please can I see the screenshot of those post where I was cursing Edos?

ghostwon:
Chief Acho Obaseki of Benin: an Anioma ! The name of one of his sons: Efesogie !

What's the meaning of Obaseki in Igbo?

Osagyefo98:



How can I alienate someone that speaks Igbo, bears Igbo names, studies igbo language in school...gives their children igbo names and has Obi as title of their kings or okpalauku as their head..

How can I alienate people that are Igbos already?
how?

Shot up, Anioma are Edo and they synthesise that by constantly claiming that their origins lay in Benin. Apart from that, precolonisl maps show their land as being part of the Benin empire/ (Benin Kingdom).

ghostwon:
Chief Acho Obaseki of Benin: an Anioma !
The name of one of his sons: Efesogie !

Also the current governor of Edo state is a grand son to Chief Agho Obaseki

Osagyefo98:



please can I see the screenshot of those post where I was cursing Edos?

?

Osagyefo98:


What's the meaning of Obaseki in Igbo?

? Oh, you are even dumber than I thought.
I don't see any logical path between your question, what I said and the topic. Are you just spewing rubbish ?

ghostwon:


? Oh, you are even dumber than I thought.
I don't see any logical path between your question, what I said and the topic. Are you just spewing rubbish ?

You are the dumb one here because every name has it's own meaning.

Wonder the kind of reverse history you are just spreading..

God have mercy on you.