In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. - Politics (15) - Nairaland
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Niger State Governor, Mohammed Umar Bago Kneels To Greet President Tinubu / Peter Mbah, Enugu PDP Governorship Candidate, Kneels To Beg Residents For Votes / Oshiomhole Accident In Benin: The Damaged SUV Conveying Ex Governor (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 3:30pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
davidnazee: (1) Write out the claim that I made, and provide the evidence by link or screenshot that I did indeed make any such claim.   (2) Provide your evidence showing why the pre-first millenium construction of a formidable system of rampart by the ancient people of Ijebu kingdom (which has attracted the attention of eminent archaeologists) is considered by you to be irrelevant. (3) Provide evidence demonstrating why you consider my references to the earliest sources, experts, scholars, and acadmics to be irrelevant evidence. (4) And lastly, I'm still waiting on you to provide evidence for your claims highlighted earlier. Cheers! 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Sewgon79(m): 3:31pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
davidnazee: Maybe I should enlighten your dumb brain once more. In those days they use Oyo ilé which have ILẸ̀ IFE as capital. OYO ILẸ̀ then is generilise as whole Oodua empire, ilé Ife empire. So that is what I am talking about. Whenever there is war, the instructions and directive came from Administrative center of Oodua empire (Île Ifè). OYO mesi which is now modern day (Oyo) is military or defence headquarters of Oodua Empire. So anytime you heard story of War fought by Oyo, it administrative headquarters is ÎLE IFE. Ife ó dáyé. So it was Generalise as Oyo Empire . Ọ̀YỌ́ ILE (ILẸ̀ IFE) as administrative and Spiritual Headquarters. While Ọ̀YỌ́ MESI (MODERN DAY Ọ̀YỌ́) as defence and military headquarters. So it is still same OYO EMPIRE as the historian called it then. But out of Oyo Empire we have so many KINGDOM such as: 1. Ijebu Kingdom : Ijebu Ode, Ijebu Igbo, Ijebu Remo, Ijebu Ogbere, Ijebu Ilishan, Ijebu Odogbolu,Shagamu, Ijebu Itele, Ijebu Mushin, Ijebu Ilese, Ijebu Ilugun, Ijebu Momo, Epe, Ikorodu, Ota, etc 2. Ẹ̀gbá Kingdom : Egbado, Yewa, Ilaro, Ipokia, Ibara, Òkè Ọ̀nà, Òwu, Owode, etc 3. Ọ̀yọ́ Mesi: ìlà Orangun, Osogbo, Ede, Sarki, Iwo, Modakeke, etc 4. Ondo: Akure, Ìkàré, Osolo 5. Ekiti: Alára, Ajero 6. Lagos: 7: Ilorin: Offa, etc 8: Benin Republic : Sakete, Alaketu, Ajase, Ilapetu, etc 9. Kogi: Ibira, Igala, etc ILE ÌFẸ́ as Spiritual and administrative headquarters while Ọ̀YỌ́ MESI as defence and military headquarters. All this towns and Kingdoms are classified in those days as Ọ̀yọ́ Empire 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by DonCandido(f): 4:11pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
TAO11: @TAO11, thank you for the great debates and for sharing your superior and deep knowledge on the threads on this forum. I have benefited from it greatly. I think this a good point to put a QED to what is fast becoming a sterile disputation on this so called Ife- Benin rivalry. Thanks to you, we all know the truth or where to find the truth. Now, with this compulsory holiday engendered by the covid 19 pandemic and being anxious to put despondency and depression at bay, I would like us to look at another related issue to the one being discussed here -without the Benin distraction- namely the legend of Kisra and the truth about the stele at Ife called "Opa Oranmiyan". I have read about Kisra but the materials i read were all about the myth. It appears nobody has anything factual or concrete about him. I have developed this "crazy" theory that the man Kisra actually existed; That the stele at Ife was a marker for his grave made by his followers who thereafter ended their plan to return to their homeland through the sea; that the knowledge about carving of style was foreign to Ife and that the stele at Ife predated both Oduduwa and Oranmiyan. I reached the above conclusions after tracing the history and existence of steles in West Africa and Nigeria in particular. I discovered that apart from the Ife Stele, none existed anywhere else in Nigeria. In West Africa, researchers found an Islamic era steles in Mali -hope I am right-said to have been imported from Almeria, Spain. It is believed that successive muslim rulers in the area commissioned it from Spain to commemorate their rules. The only place where stone monolith were used extensively as grave markers or to commemorate great events (obelisks) is Ethiopia. I believe practice spread to lower Nile areas ie Sudan and with the conquest of Egypt and establishment of black dynastic rule in that country, the practice spread there. I agree with the opinions of some of the writers that around or about the beginning of the Islamic era, either a prince, an army commander, a king or a royal party sought a redoubt in Africa after losing a war at home. I will not speculate about where this "home " is. I also believe that they wandered through the Savannah and later the Sahel looking for access to the sea. They followed the course of the Niger river initially but the difficulty of provisioning for their large entourage made them to move instead from one large town to another which they either pillaged or were welcomed. Some of them remained behind. The Borgu oral history reference the presence of an entourage amongst them at point in their history and as a matter of fact, the ruling cast of Borgu are believed to have descended from a man called Kisra. Similarly, the popular Hausa myth about a certain Bayajida who was a son of king of Baghdad and became a saviour resonates with the Borgu story. Here is the high point of this speculation, I do not think black Africa below the Sahel developed the monarchical system independently. I believe a better organized conquerors brought the system and imposed it on them. They in turn became acultured to the host community. The technical knowhow on how to carve a stele is absent at Ife to date; the knowledge about how to write or make the inscription on the stele or what it means is lost to the Ifes; there is no similar stele anywhere in Ife or West Africa generally that is either still standing or fallen. Is it possible that there was another equally important leader at Ife before the advent of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan who history has forgotten? 3 Likes |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 4:47pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
davidnazee: (1) It has become more than obvious that I am way, way out of your league. For example, just in your above comment you have committed tons of disgraceful logical fallacies such as the following: (i) Argumentum ad personam (ii) Argumentum ad hominem (iii) Argumentum ex silentio (iv) Argumentum ad ignorantiam (v) Argumentum ad nauseam (vi) Onus probandi fallacy. (2) (i) Anyways, it is important that you provide evidence for why the pre-first millenium construction of a formidable system of rampart by the ancient people of the Ijebu kingdom (which has attracted the attention of eminent archaeologists) is considered by you to be irrelevant as a signpost to a great ancient civilization. (ii) It is also important that you provide historical evidence to support your equation of the Ijebu kingdom with a certain unknown Jaboe; as well as the evidence for your claim that Ife and Ijebu are small villages despite the evidence showing that your Benin kings pay homage to Ife. I am patiently waiting on your evidences. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 5:29pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
TAO11: 1. You keep deviating from the actual argument to topics that are irrelevant to the main topic we are discussing. I never pushed the architectural works or monuments of Ijebu aside, I said those walls or ramparts doesn’t make it a great Kingdom or empire. You can’t use that as evidence for calling Ijebu a great Kingdom. I believe many ancient places all have a type of architectural work or walls or monuments. 2. In ancient times, European kings all paid homage to the pope does that mean the Vatican was an empire or greater than those European Kingdoms? |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 6:20pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
TAO11: I don’t know why u keep asking me to provide evidence. You should be the one providing evidence to support your claim that Ife was a great empire. Saying Benin pays homage to Ife (although not true) is not evidence. Your brother Segwon gave all of Oyo’s glory and achievements to Ife, said Ife was the head and headquarter of Oyo empire. If that’s true then that means Ife was an empire and Oyo wasn’t. If Segwon statement isn’t true then you have to provide reasonable evidence that makes Ife an empire or else it remains a small village of spiritual or religious significance. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Nobody: 11:10pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
davidnazee:ife was a small and young village and oyo was a small and young kingdom although way bigger than ife. Oyo had an army, ife didn't. What we have is this: Benin empire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>oyo kingdom >>>ife village 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Nobody: 11:16pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
Sewgon79: If you believe anything said by tao then you are ignorant and stupid with some tendencies towards ethnic centrism. For your information, there was no " meeting of yoruba chiefs" that is not how any such meeting was titled, rather "meeting of important chiefs of the western region". The new name you guys are calling any such meeting is not the original one. I repeat, here is the name: "meeting of important chiefs of the western region". |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 11:31pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
DonCandido: This piece above is loaded with information. I salute you sir! In fact, you have provided me with more information than I've ever had on the topic here. I am, for instance, unaware of the Kisra story until now. I will read up on it to provide more relevant engagement and contribution. You may also assist me by citing relevant materials on the subject. I will, however, not leave without adding some things to the already provided facts and speculations about the person of Oduduwa, the Opa Oranmiyan and its dating, the Ethiopian connection, the direction of migration, etc. Let me begin with the person of Oduduwa and his citizenship: In a 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife, Paul Ozanne noted that evidence shows that many settlements have been established in the Ife country by at least the 4th century BC. He pointed out that the Ife area lies in a high bowl (namely, the "Ife bowl" ) surrounded by hills which form a watershed for many streams flowing out through gaps between the hills. And that into this "bowl" the earliest settlers came in some unknown antiquity. Paul Ozanne: "A Preliminary Report of an Archaeological Survey of Ife"; also "A New Archaeological Survey of Ife," Odu, new series, 1, 1969, pp.131-148. The idea that Oduduwa's roots was in some distant foreign land is actually alien and foreign to the early Yorubas themselves. The most remote origin atttibuted to Oduduwa in indigenous Yoruba accounts is given in the mythology of Oduduwa's descent from heaven, as well as Obatala's, et al. And if an interpretation of this particular mythical account would not deem Obatala (and the other actors in the account) as a non-Yoruba foreigner, then there is no reason why such interpretation of the same account would deem Oduduwa a foreigner. For the sake of completeness, I should mention that this particular myth have absolutely nothing to do with a foreign country of origin for Oduduwa or Obatala, et al. An examination of the earliest variant of this myth of descent of heavenly beigns supplies entirely different (unknown or unpopular) names to the charcaters involved. This myth of descent of Oduduwa, Obatala, et al. have therefore been interpreted by historians to be a later remix of the original myth. Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye writes in his "A History of the Yoruba People" in relation to this interpretation as follows: "As for the introduction of the names Oduduwa and Obatala into these creation myths, there seems no doubt that what we have here is a conflation of very ancient myths with later known facts at some point in Yoruba history. As will be seen in subsequent chapters, Obatala and Oduduwa were not mythical, heavenly beings; they were humans who played very significant roles in a great era of Yoruba history. Without doubt, what happened was that the contemporaries or successors of Obatala and Oduduwa added these two names to myths that had existed probably very long before their time, in an attempt to accord Oduduwa in particular the very high position he deserved in the transformation of Yoruba civilization in the most significant era in early Yoruba history." S. Adebanji Akintoye: "A History of the Yoruba People", Amalion Publishing, 2010, pp.2-3. In fact, if anything is known for sure about the view of Oduduwa's alleged foreign origin, then it is that this view is modern and quite alien to the Yoruba peoples' history. To be quite specific, the foreign direction of Oduduwa's origin was first initiated towards the end of the 19th century by the Reverend Samuel Johnson in his famous "The History of the Yorubas" which was completed in 1897. Until deep into the 20th century some of the best minds in historical scholarship simply followed Johnson's lead without questioning, even as there is a deafening silence of prior indigenous Yoruba accounts on such a foreign Oduduwa's origin. They also didn't deem it necessary to examine the roots of the Johnsonian hypothesis. To briefly examine the influences and sources of Johnson's idea concerning the supposedly foreign roots of Oduduwa, it is sufficient to quote S. Adebanji Akintoye's A History of the Yoruba People. S. Adebanji Akintoye writes: "Samuel Johnson was educated for the service of the church. ... .At the training institution in Abeokuta, he had schooled under a German teacher named G. F. Bühler, who while training his students as church workers, gave them a very solid grounding in ancient history --- the history of Egypt, Babylon, Greece and Rome. From such beginnings, Johnson developed a strong interest in the history and mythology of the Middle East. Moreover, Johnson's Yorubaland of the nineteenth century was increasingly affected by the growth of Islam and Christianity, two world-shaping products of the Middle East. In particular with Islam came the knowledge of Western Sudanese myths and legends through the writings of Muslims of the Western Sudan ("including Hausaland" ) --- especially some of the writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto which contained some Sudanese myths about Yoruba origins. Above all, the nineteenth century was, in Europe, the golden age of the study of the history and civilization of ancient Egypt. The ancient Egyptian writings (the hieroglyphic script) had just been deciphered, and the expanding knowledge of the wonders of ancient Egypt was creating great excitement in the world of scholarship. The writings of the emerging class of literate Yorubas were commonly laced with Egyptian and Middle Eastern references, analogies and mythology ("a practice apparently regarded then as a marker of erudition" ) --- as a reading of the Lagos newspaper of the time will abundantly show. All these influences combined to shape much of Johnson's The History of the Yorubas, and to account for his linking of all important details of early beginnings of Yoruba history to the Middle East. Thus, Oduduwa became a personage from the Middle East, and Oranmiyan's migration northward to the Niger country became a journey with the Middle East as its intended destination. Indeed, the influence of Middle Eastern mythology pervades most of Johnson's early history chapters, all the way from his preface." Ibid., p.56. If anything is palpably perceptible from the foregoing quotation, it is the fact that Johnson completely favoured an account of Oduduwa's origin by Sultan Bello of Sokoto, over and above an account of Oduduwa's origin by the Yorubas themselves. In sum, he left out the Yoruba account of Oduduwa's origin in favour a heavily-Middle-East-influenced account by an Hausa. Johnson's excitement to incorporate a Middle Eastern thesis into his treatise is clearly seen to be at play. Contrasting Johnson's approach on his account of Oduduwa's origin with his approach on his account of Oyo's history, S. Adebanji Akintoye notes: "In contrast, his accounts of the history of the Oyo Empire were assembled from oral evidence he collected in places like Oyo and Ibadan where memories of the disintegration of that empire were still quite fresh; while his accounts of late nineteenth century Yoruba history were products of his own eyewitness observation of many of the events." Ibid., p.56. Having shown that the influences and sources of Johnson's hypothesis of Oduduwa's alleged foreign origin are themselves foreign, and based more on sentiments than it can be argued to be based on any fact, it is vital then that an inward examination of the corpus of indigenous resources on the early history of the Youba people --- as well as on Oduduwa's roots particularly --- is undertaken. In relation to this novel undertaking which didn't begin until well into the 1900s, S. Adebanji Akintoye writes: "Fortunately, while much effort was being expended in following Johnson's ideas about the beginnings of Yoruba history, there existed all around us, in Ife and other parts of Yorubaland, an enormous wealth of traditions, as well as evidence in the Yoruba political system and surviving practices and rituals, about Oduduwa and his era. Ultimately a different direction in the study of Yoruba history developed ("as part of a more scientific study of African history in general" ) which focused on the indigenous evidence, as well as other source material, for the reconstruction of early Yoruba history. Consequent upon these efforts, we now stand able to lay aside, with respect, the Johnsonian hypothesis about the origins of Oduduwa and of the Yoruba. All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that the great political changes which began in Ife in about the tenth century were indigenous in their origin, in their unfolding and in their dramatis personae. It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised; it is only in that soil that his roots can be found." Ibid., pp.56-57. Regarding the specific region of Yorubaland where Oduduwa was born and raised, and how this ties to the account of the resistance he endured from some parties in the course of his becoming king in a unified Ife: As is to be expected, scholars --- such as Ulli Beier, et al. --- who pioneered avoiding this obvious error inherent in the Johnsonian hypothesis did indeed make recourse to the rich corpus of indigenous Ife-Yoruba accounts. An important account which proves particularly very useful to S. A. Akintoye's identification of Oduduwa's specific roots within Yorubaland (and how that ties to the well-known account of the resistance he endured from some quarters, in becoming the ruler of unified Ife) is the popular account of the violence, conflicts, and wars between the Oduduwa's alliance on one hand, and the Obatala's alliance on the other hand. This unrest is said (by all the variant accounts) to have lasted "a very long time". Akin Ogundiran found, after thoroughly researching and combing through the generality of the available Ife traditional accounts on this much remembered conflict, that it must have lasted over a century. This submission then raises the question of Oduduwa's and Obatala's participation in the conflicts. Although the traditional accounts put Oduduwa and Obatala at the very beginning of the conflicts to their very end, we know that this is extremely unlikely given the unanimously admitted very long duration of the conflict by the generality of all the traditional accounts. Moreover, it is seen very, very clearly from the accounts that Oduduwa emerged through the conflict as king ruling over a unified Ife. This imagery, thus, warrants the necessary logical conclusion that both Oduduwa and Obatala were simply born into a long pre-existing and ongoing conflict by parents from opposing parties to the conflict. In relation to the account leading to this conclusion, and the conclusion itself, Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye writes: "There is no doubt that Oduduwa and Obatala were the most prominent persons in the last stages of the wars. Neither, therefore could have been actors, or even could have been born at the beginning of the conflicts." Ibid., p.62. In fact, to be emphatic, the indigenous traditions note that Oduduwa himself was born in Ife to parents who had relocated there (i.e. to the "Ife bowl" ) from one of the neighbouring hills surrounding the "bowl" --- Recall my earlier reference to a 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife by Paul Ozanne which notes that the "Ife bowl" is surrounded by hills forming watersheds. In relation to this indigenous tradition regarding his specific land of birth and his "parents'" relocation, S. A. Akintoye writes: "An examination of most of the traditions fairly definitively establish that Oduduwa was born in the stranger's area of Ife to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the traditions of resentment in the strangers' area, and that his youth and Obatala's youth ("both of them "sons of the soil"" ) were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife. The traditional accounts put both men in the era of conflicts from its beginning to its end, obviously because of their extremely dominant roles in its latter stages. In the light of this, it is reasonably certain that the group which became popularly known as the Oduduwa group in the traditions was led to the Ife area not by Oduduwa but by his parents or grand parents." Ibid., p.62. In conclusion, the idea that Oduduwa has a foreign origin outside of Yorubaland, outside of West Africa, or sometimes outside of Africa has long been set aside by historians as an over-ambitious pseudo-historical narrative. It has been set aside for a realistic historical narrative which has situated him definitively to be indigenous to Ile-Ife. At this point I will have to continue later with the other points I intend to write on. I need to leave now, but not without touching cursorily on the key points: The Opa Oranmiyan is not the only stone monolith of its kind in Ile-Ife. At least one or two others exist in Ife. Although they are not as popular, prominent, or as tall as the Opa Oranmiyan. Also I don't believe that the creation of such stone monolith is something beyond the productive capability of the ancient Ife-Yoruba people. Notice that archaeological surveys reports that a massive iron-smelting industry fluorished very early in Ife history, yet the mastery of stone is a natural precursor to the mastery of iron. Archaeological surveys (as well as the corpus of Ife accounts) show that Ife was a well-known leading artistic centre with some of the most aesthetically pleasing naturalistic/realistic artworks in stone, terracota, quartz, bronze, and brass which is unmathced anywhere in Africa. Regarding the dating of the Opa Oranmiyan, I have once read on Wikiledia that Radiocarbon test shows it to predate the date generally thought to mark the start of the Oduduwa dynasty. Well, as is to be expected usually with Wikipedia, this specific alleged information of radiocarbon test is not found at the reference cited for it. Also, notice that the Obelisk has iron nails driven into it to form a curious pattern. This makes an important difference. Yes, such ancient Obelisks are also found in Ethiopia and I think Egypt too. In fact, I have an interesting information about Ethiopia which I'm always excited to share.  I have an Ethiopian friend with whom I once discussed passionately about Africa history. That day, I was, for some reason, moved to ask about Oranmiyan. Guess what his response was. He looked at me in shock and said: "I am from Oromiya". I became shocked too. He said "Oromiya" (also spelled "Oromia" ) is the name of an indigenous district of Ethiopia. I then got even more curious. So, I asked about "Oduduwa". Guess what! Similar but more intense reaction from both of us. "Oduduwa is a word in my language", he replied. Same spelling. No iota of difference. In fact, he told me it means something along the lines of 'The one who speaks (on behalf of others)'. A meaning quite different from its Yoruba meaning --- 'The wholesome one who vied for glory and grandeur' For me, all these and other fact establishes definitively that there must have been some connection, perhaps in the very distant past between the Yoruba people/West Africans generally, and the NorthAfricans/North-East Africans. But to insist, from this apparent connection alone, that there was necessarily a downward migration is what, I think, is unwarranted. And one key evidence which attracts me to the upward migration view is the fact of a certain early Ṣàngó, born in Ife, who reigned as king over the Kush kingdom. Updates and detailed referencing later. cc: OgboAto 10 Likes 6 Shares |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 11:48pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
davidnazee: You should provide historical evidence for your claims (which you didn't deny to have made) that: Ife and Ijebu kingdoms are mere irrelevant villages, as well as your equation of a certain unknown Jaboe with Ijebu. Repeating the same claims many times without historical substantiation will not automatically turn it into a fact. Moreover, if you insist that I must substantiate certain claims, then I must have at least made the claims. So, which claims did I make, and where and when? Provide your evidence. Furthermore, despite providing you with authoritative expert submission admitting that the kings of Benin kingdom pay homage to the kings of Ife; you noted that it is not true. Can you then provide your counter evidence against the experts? Lol. Also, as if in a deep state of catastrophic confusion, you noted that it is not evidence even if true. I swear you're a living contradiction. I guess Benin kingdom paying homage to Ife means that Benin is greater than Ife. What was your Oba looking for in a conference of Yoruba kings again? I think you're facing the consequences of severe sleep deprivation! 6 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 11:55pm On Mar 29, 2020 |
ghostwon: Provide your evidence, or sob secretly as always. My own Reference: "Conference of Yoruba Chiefs, Oyo, 31 March to 1 April 1937", mimeographed. Waiting on yours! Also see attachment. 5 Likes 2 Shares
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| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 12:10am On Mar 30, 2020 |
davidnazee: (1) Can you elaborate on how your point here does not contradict the point you made just after that? Lol. (2) Provide your evidence that a pre-first millennium AD defensive system of city-walls and trenches (which survives till date and which has attracted the attention of promiment world-renowned archaeologist) is no indication of the greatness of the ancient civilization that constructed it. (3) Once you move out of your present realm of belief and faith (in relation to the historical subject at hand), then I will examine what you have to say here. (4) Provide your historical evidence that non-theocratic European kings "pay homage" to any Pope. I am patiently waiting! 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 12:30am On Mar 30, 2020 |
ghostwon: Provide your evidence, or sob secretly as always. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 3:30am On Mar 30, 2020 |
TAO11: Are you saying this document (folder) you posted was actually printed in 1937? Damn you can lie sha!! So you can be this desperate that you stoop so low to make up false and fake documents?? 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 3:50am On Mar 30, 2020 |
davidnazee: Provide your evidence for the boldened, or weep bitterly in secret as always. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Sewgon79(m): 9:08am On Mar 31, 2020 |
ghostwon: Maybe I should enlighten you better. Yorùbá empire or Oyo Empire or Oodua Land. Anyone you called it but they are all same. Have been practicing Federalism system of government before Colonial brought it to us e.g Ile Ìfẹ́ - Administrative Stools (Executive or Administrative Headquarters) of all Yoruba State Ọ̀yọ́ or Ibadan - Defence Stools (Military or Defence Headquarters) of all Yoruba State The rest Yoruba towns and villages pay their tribute to the Central which is Île Ifè. So, if You try to call it Ọ̀yọ́ Empire. It is still same one Yoruba cuz that is how it works in those days. 2 Likes |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Nobody: 3:13pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
davidnazee: Bro, there is a reason I refuse to discuss with that tao troll, he never makes sense. He makes illogical statements one after the other. He never proves his statements, he relies on tricks and drowning (with huge amounts of lies) anybody who disagrees with him. Then you spend all your time debunking his statements and providing proof contradicting him, only for him to come up with more unsubstantiated claims and many obviously illogical ones. It is an unending cycle. And the guy knows nothing about the topics which he discusses. He relies on Google to feed him with internet trash. |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Nobody: 3:15pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
Sewgon79: Actually all you wrote is unfactual, it is all a lie. Here are actual facts: ghostwon:
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| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 3:31pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
ghostwon: Provide evidence to back up your claims. Moreover, davidnazee is getting enlightened and smarter as we go in this journey. He has modified and set aside some of his prior emotionally held erroneous views --- courtesy of the quality schooling he got from yours truly.  --- I can show you proof.He has grown in wisdom to escape the sad reality of your ridiculous manipulation of himself, after having seen the light from the academic substantiation I consistently adduce to support my positions. He has perhaps left you to continue basking in the euphoria of raw and undiluted ignorance cum delusions of grandeur. Your case sank in me the reality that I can't save a man from himself. I wish you the best in your ongoing fight with reality. May God have mercy on your soul! 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 3:39pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
The foregoing is not to say I have stopped schooling you, though. So don't heave a sigh of 'relief' just yet. And always remember, making a claim is one thing, proving the claim is another separate thing. You often ignorantly assume that doing the first automatically translates to doing the second. No! Moreover, the image you just attached is an anime/cartoon --- the imagination of a mortal like you --- it is not a photograph. Lol. Also, I don't get the point of your attached map showing the name Benin as well as the name of other places. What's your new point here since your original point about Bight of Benin and map has already been trashed in the link below?: https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/11#87682150 cc: ghostwon 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 4:02pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
TAO11: Yes I have been enlightened to know that you cannot be saved from your ignorance. Writing long essays that are out of point won’t help you pass an exam. You haven’t been able to prove what makes Ife an empire rather u been blabbing rubbish. I’m still of the opinion that Ife and Ijebu are small villages with Ife having a spiritual connection. That is what history has taught us. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 4:08pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
ghostwon: Bro it took me sometime to understand that Tao is an idiot. He is only good at writing long essays and putting words together but in the end it’s all rubbish and out of point. It’s a shame because it’s a waste of talent. He keeps making claims he cannot prove, relying on hearsay and actually he cannot prove his claim because there’s nowhere Ife or Ijebu was discussed extensively as great Kingdoms. These Yoruba revisionists will forever be frustrated. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 4:11pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
TAO11: Why don’t you discuss in details what makes Ife great?? I know you cannot because there’s nothing to say. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Nobody: 4:27pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
davidnazee: The spiritual connection itself is made up. The British who were degrading the superpowers of our region were also elevating their most faithful servants the ooni of ife is one of them. The British are behind the ife "connection", before the colonial era the king of Jebu would have slapped the ooni of ife if the latter called himself an emperor. |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 4:47pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
davidnazee: I am glad that you're having a positive shift from your earlier position that Ife was not great. Anyways, regarding your suggestion that I should shed more light on the admited evidence of Ife's greatness already provided: Like I had noted somewhere before on this same thread, the details is to come out in a separate thread. It is sufficient that I provide only some of the evidence for comments sake as you've implied that I've done in this thread. So, relax and watch out! 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 4:48pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
ghostwon: Can you --- in your first line --- just see my point on how he's outgrowing your grip of ignorance? Anyways, provide your evidence?? Or sob secretely! 3 Likes |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 5:04pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
davidnazee: Highlight (with link or screenshot, etc.) a single claim made by yours truly (i.e. TAO11 --- this is how to tag me. Don't be scared!) which is without expert, authoritative, academic, historical substantiation; or sob secretly with much pain Also, to see who the revisionists really are in the context of the Ife-Edo connection, go to the link below: https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/11#87682523 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 5:13pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
TAO11: Stop deceiving yourself Tao. He is right. In precolonial times Ooni was nothing.. everyone knows it was the British that gave Ooni relevance and Awolowo elevated Ooni above the Alafin of Oyo. You Yorubas were refurbished by the British. Do you know that when the late Oba Erediawa (May he continue to reign forever) was alive he had a spat with the Ooni of Ife. The late oba lectured the Ooni and told him the Benin gave birth to Ife and Oyo. When the Alafin was asked about the Oba of Benin statement, the Alafin replied, “If Oba of Benin said so then the Oba is correct.” Do u understand why the Alafin gave that reply? I guess u are too ignorant to understand. |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 5:19pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
davidnazee: Regarding your inablity to see my citation on how the king of Ife was regarded --- in the earliest known writen account on West Africa kingdoms ---- as "one of the greatest" in the region (with zero mention of Benin) whose kingdom even the whites cannot invade: What makes you think I am responsible for your already admitted inability to read written text?? Also, every theocratic monarchy have spiritual connection. So, what's your problem with the kings of Benin kingdom for regarding the Ooni of Ife as God Almighty in human flesh? Lastly, I am still waiting on yoir historical evidence to substantiate your fantasy that the Ife and Ijebu kingdoms are "small villages". No body cares about your personal "opinion" which is the most truth you've put forward in relation to helping your joke about Ife and Ijebu. Or are you about to make a U-turn?? 6 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by davidnazee: 5:33pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
TAO11: Do you know why u sound foolish even though u can write well? It’s because the only proof you have of Ife being great is because it was regarded as great lol. So that’s how you will answer an exam question? One sentence citation is all you can provide. Even mythical Oyo empire’s greatness was not described in one sentence or citation. Tao you cannot change history, the best u can do is to deceive yourself. The unending truth is historically Ijebu was a hamlet, Ife a village.. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by TAO11(f): 5:45pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
davidnazee: (1) He obviously can't help himself in providing evidence to substantiate his claim despite several challenge disgracing and embarrassing him to help himself come up with historical evidence. Anyways, please help him provide the much needed historical evidence since you believe he is right. Please help him. Remember he is your Bini brother. (2) A Yoruba says: It's "A". And a Bini simply responds saying: It's "Z" (while also partly admitting "A" ). A typical Edo slave.boy then concludes: Harray!!! The Bini has schooled the Yoruba oo, and the Bini must be right even without evidence. Such is the logic at Benin kingdom. BNLG 101? Anyways, to see what world-renowned historians have actually submitted on the same issue, refer to the link below: https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/11#87682523 Moreover, did you just belie your Oba Erediauwa II on this same thread, when you asserted Oyo is not Bini's?? [See attachment below] In other words: Admitting the long standing truth that Oranmiyan (the founder of Oyo) is not Bini. In other words admitting the long standing truth that Oduduwa (Oranmiyan's father or grand father) is not Bini. In other words self-demolishing all you stand for on Nairaland. (3) Provide your historical evidence for any Alaafin being asked such question, and of him providing any such response. You will soon stop lying, or won't you? 4 Likes 1 Share
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| Re: In Benin, The Governor Kneels To Greet The King, But Not So In Other Kingdoms.. by Nobody: 5:47pm On Mar 31, 2020 |
TAO11:  |
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