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Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Ablemax(m): 7:15am On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Toju200(m): 7:28am On Apr 03, 2020 |
bidexiii:bidexiii the declassified video pls... |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Toju200(m): 7:54am On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn:well I'll say it's best value and the most effective use of our very scarce resources The Super tucano is solely built for CTCOIN and perfect for the job of CAS.. It's easy to maintain Cost per flight is what we can handle ISR capable so in case we sight insurgents it will not be D case of calling strike platforms.. It will now be a SEEK AND DESTROY kind of operation... Via this aircraft we'll be changed to add to our store of Guided munitions |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by komekn(m): 11:42am On Apr 03, 2020 |
kabe1: Who told you that? Are you able to substantiate that position with sources from both ends Nigerian and US. Finally, where are they❓ And do you think that is the best use of o very scarce resources. Paying for planes that will not be delivered until 2024. Considering the dire state our armed forces find themselves in the SE, can anybody call that wisdom. 1 Like |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 11:56am On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: Did you bother opening the link I shared? |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 12:03pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: The Super-Tucano is the best COIN fighter aircraft in the world. When they do arrive they would add an important capability for the Nigerian military. The Super Tucanos would combine the roles of the King Air ISR plane and the Alpha Jet, L-39 and F-7. Even you have been following the Air Force space, you would see that the Nigerian Air Force continues to add various capabilities even though the Tucanos have been paid for. Augusta, JF-17, MI-35m, upgrade of avionics suite of Alpha Jet and L-39 to help them bomb at night, MI-17 and a battalion sized regiment unit. 2024 is far, some sources say 2022, whatever is the case, the Nigerian Air Force is not resting on it's shoulders. |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by komekn(m): 2:07pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
kabe1: The vanguard source❓ That is a newspaper report not a USA state department information gazetted bulletin. The term l used was substantiate, that's why l said two way sources USA and Nigerian. But it's not particularly important, we know that whole cost is $600 million of which we will not see any of these aircraft being deployed for some years to come. And according to some we have paid but we have nothing to show. Which brings us back to the core subject, is this the most judicious use of our very scarce resources for best value and greatest delivery impact❓ . In the context of the SE and our most pressing need at the moment. We are getting ripped by Boko and we need aircraft like yesterday and someone has paid $600 million for aircraft that we will not see at least for 2 years maybe more. CHEI !!! Is that wisdom. 2 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 2:12pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: You're quite deluded it's rather impressive to watch. I don't know why reading is so hard for some people. In the Vanguard news report, Vanguard newspaper cited defenceweb.co.za as a source. Defenceweb also cited the US government as a source. All sources are clearly stated in that link. Instead of reading and educating yourself, you instead willfully choose to continue to parrot a lie that has been refuted countless times. Please have some dignity. |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 2:13pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: What is the wisdom of telling lies? 1 Like |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Odunayaw(m): 2:35pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
Fynline:How much do you know of the NAF guys? |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by S400: 4:19pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
for official sources : Aug. 3, 2017 : the report from the US defense security cooperation agency about the $593 million estimated contract source : https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-nigeria-29-super-tucano-aircraft-weapons-and-associated-support WASHINGTON, Aug. 3, 2017 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Nigeria of twelve (12) A-29 Super Tucano aircraft and weapons, including all associated training, spare parts, aviation and ground support equipment, and hangar, facilities, and infrastructure required to support the program. The estimated total case value is $593 million . The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on August 2, 2017. november 28,2018 : from the US department of defense source : https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/1700404/ Sierra Nevada Corp., Centennial, Colorado, has been awarded a $329,076,750 undefinitized contract action (UCA) for 12 A-29 aircraft for the Nigerian Air Force. The total not-to-exceed amount of the UCA is approved at $344,727,439 to include a Forward Looking Infrared System for six of the aircraft. This piece is projected to be funded soon after UCA award. In addition to the 12 aircraft, this contract provides for ground training devices, mission planning systems, mission debrief systems, spares, ground support equipment, alternate mission equipment, contiguous U.S. interim contractor support, outside of continental U.S. (OCONUS) contractor logistic support, and five field service representatives for OCONUS support for three years. Work will be performed in Jacksonville, Florida, and is expected to be completed May 2024 . Foreign military sales funds in the amount of $220,167,735 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8637-19-C-6009). |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by komekn(m): 6:15pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
kabe1: The purpose of this discourse I presume is to inform and educate. Its not to get into inconsequential arguments over nothing and to make unguarded derogatory comments. To allege that some one is telling lies , but with no basis WHY ![]() You have lost sight of the core question, which is simply, is this the best use of our very scarce resources. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The fact remains that before those 12 turbo prop planes get here in 2-4 years it will cost us total $600. You are essentially saying that Bidexiii, S400, Myself and a few others are telling lies, our position is substantiated with multiple US government departments and agencies the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), being one of them. You are not covering yourself in glory 4 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by GabrielYulaw(m): 6:48pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: To answer the core question, spending almost $600 million for a dozen planes we won't see for years is assuredly not the best use of scarce resources. Will Nigeria still be here in that time and will ISWAP just be twiddling their thumbs waiting for these planes to arrive? The answer to these questions of mine are frightening. 6 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by S400: 7:40pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
for the same 600 millions , you can get 48 mi 35 M or more , perfect for operations against boko haram . nigeria bought 12 for 150 millions 8 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 7:41pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: Long meaningless post. Sierra Nevada Corp., Centennial, Colorado, has been awarded a $329,076,750 undefinitized contract action (UCA) for 12 A-29 aircraft for the Nigerian Air Force. The total not-to-exceed amount of the UCA is approved at $344,727,439 to include a Forward Looking Infrared System for six of the aircraft. This piece is projected to be funded soon after UCA award. https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/1700404/ |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 7:46pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
S400: The Super Tucanos cost 329 million dollars. Equipment and training make up the balance. Nigeria to protest U.S. conditions on $494 million purchase of fighter planes Nigeria will protest to the United States over conditions imposed on its planned $494 million purchase of 12 A-29 Super Tucano fighter planes, Defence Minister Mansur Dan Ali said on Thursday. Those conditions include the 2020 transfer date for the aircraft and that Nigerian technicians will not be trained by U.S. staff, be part of maintenance crews, nor can they study the production of the planes, he told reporters at a briefing in Abuja. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1FE27J |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 7:49pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
komekn: Your initial comment is false. You cannot make a statement on a false premise, then you go on to ask a question based on a false claim. Incredible reasoning. ![]() ![]() |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by blacKDalia: 7:56pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
Odunayaw: Walahi I hate to see the push ups. It's becoming embarrassing. Every time you see soldiers in push up mode, just know that somewhere close is the COAS. 6 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by S400: 8:04pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
kabe1: i have shared the link of us department of defense about the 329 millions Undefinitized Contract Actions (UCA ) ( contract actions for which the contract terms, specifications, or price are not agreed upon before performance commences ) . lets say 344 millions . but dont forget the weaponary , ammunitions and other stuff . still 494 millions is too expensive for only 12 tucano's specially with 2024 delivery . with 494 millions $ , and the lack of air support of nigerian operations in the north . 37 mi 35 M would be better and delivred earlier . and what do you think of the Su 25 ? the last upgrades are very good and perfect for antiguerilla wars 3 Likes
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Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Odunayaw(m): 8:05pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
blacKDalia:After visiting a "training site" for SF all we get to see is bodies with their palms on the floor. Painful to my eyes. 10 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Odunayaw(m): 8:17pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
S400:Are we comparing Helos to COIN planes now? Although I find no fault in the Tucano procurement, I wish we stock up on Transport helos |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by S400: 8:24pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
Odunayaw: we are talking about nigerians army operations needs . mi 35M can do the job against boko haram , for exemple the mi 24 MKIII were very effective against terrorist groups in algeria ( and terrorist in algeria had some manpads) they ran like cockroaches just hearing the sound of their propeller , so i dont understand why go for these expensive tucano's) for me for boko haram fight and with the same amount of money i would prefer having 37 mi 35 M to support troops operations rather than 12 super tucanos , i would go even for the sukhoi 25 (even second hand) with fastest delivry and mooore units . better speed more ammunitions 2 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by blacKDalia: 8:32pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
We just don't seem to get things right. I ve read the recent posts on the super tucano with interest. My major concern is the delivery date: 2020 or 2024. For those people quoting 2024, is the delivery date starting 2024 or ending that same year? If starting 2024 it just shows that the policy planners and decision makers in the military are masturbat-ng over the issues in the North East or effing Nigeria doggy style. It's very annoying and stinks to high heavens that there's no regard for the life of the ordinary soldier in the North East. One day na one day. 8 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 8:40pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
S400: I'm not referring to Undefinitized Contracts, we know the Tucanos have been fully paid for. It is honourable to make statements on factuals instead of unsubstantiated falsehoods like @komken has done. On the matter of whether they are ideal or not, Helicopters have their own limitations. As we can see in Syria, they have not been used in the offensive in Idlib province considering the threat of shoot downs. They cannot also provide round the clock surveillance like the Tucanos. Also giving the fact that the Tucano is a turboprop, you save on fuel. I would personally prefer 37 MI-35m helicopters over 12 Tucanos, but I heard the cost of procuring 12 MI-35m which Nigeria is still waiting to complete is also high. I don't know how much Algeria paid for 43 MI-28 helicopters but I know the total sum should be more than 500 million. The SU-25 is also great, but I think the Turboprop has more advantages to it in Nigeria's case. |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by blacKDalia: 8:41pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
Odunayaw: If push ups could win wars, this insurgency would've been done and dusted. 3 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by kabe1: 8:46pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
blacKDalia: First A-29 Super Tucano delivery to Nigeria pushed back to May 2021 The first delivery in the foreign military sale of 12 A-29 Super Tucano aircraft to Nigeria is not expected until May 2021, one year later than initially scheduled. An Air Force official attributed the delay to contract negotiations that were finalized last December, months after the original deal was signed and implemented in Jan. 2018. "The A-29 production efforts were not able to start until the contract negotiations were completed. The delayed start shifted production line schedules from the fourth... https://insidedefense.com/daily-news/first-29-super-tucano-delivery-nigeria-pushed-back-may-2021 |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Toju200(m): 9:03pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
All those saying you'll prefer this to that you're very right and I get your points but there's something y'all ain't getting right.. If you've read the NAF strategic plan for modernization (Which is no longer available for download and no longer on the net) y'all will know where NAF is heading.. The Super tucano will serve it's purpose More gunships will come More fighter jets will come it ain't ending at 3jf17 What this current CAS is doing he's trying to get all these done with limited resources that's all 1 Like |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by blacKDalia: 9:09pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
kabe1:Thanks. The delivery date though. |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by ugo4u: 9:12pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
Those of you calling for mass purchase of Mi-35 have to put into Cognizance many factors which includes range, tactics etc. The Tucano is preferable to the helo for now chiefly because of range and speed. The Tucano can be easily scrambled to carryout surgical strikes as well as air interdiction mission. Note: Compared to the Mi-35 Tucanos are easier and cheaper to maintain and operate. 1 Like |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by GabrielYulaw(m): 9:18pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
Toju200: You are paying for all that weaponry I hope? ![]() By the way, have you heard of something called urgent need? When you meet a farmer dying of starvation, do you give him a bag of eba and sugar to use in drinking garri, or do you give him a bucket of seeds and farming implements and tell him to plant, grow his farm and eat to his fill when his plants mature in 3 to 4 months? The strategic plan sounds nice, but it should be flexible to take account of and accommodate present and future needs. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by Nobody: 9:35pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
My 2 kobos Military or military procurement is not the end solution for all these wahala. If that had been the case Afghanistan would have been free of terrorism by now given the firepower deployed by USA there. They might be the means but they r definately not the end to the problem. U keep killing them , they will still keep coming. As I have been saying all these time correct diagnostic of a problem is the key to the cure. What Chanakya said thousands of years ago still holds relevance today especially in the case of insurgency / terrorism based on ideology / religion. " victory on the battlefield is not the final remedy, but it is the acceptance of the final outcome by the defeated side " 4 Likes |
Re: Battle Field Discussion (picture/video) Of African Military . by GabrielYulaw(m): 9:43pm On Apr 03, 2020 |
nemesis8u: I really don't understand your last quote. The Tamils were defeated on the battlefield by the most brutal methods known to man. They have been quiet since. Are they quiet because they were military defeated by the Sri Lankan army, or are they quiet because they recognize their defeat and know that another insurrection would see them completely wiped off the map as a race and as a people? 1 Like |
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