gregyboy your attention is needed here.

You had requested some evidence, but you fled as soon as it was provided.

Or did you miss it by oversight?

See below in case you missed it :

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/11#87995078

cc: ghostwon

ghostwon:

They (the yar.riba) already hanged themselves the moment they started discussing fairytales in the middle of a history discussion.
Refuse to be dragged to their level, refuse to discuss fairytales.
The fact is the yar.iba have no facts, no actual history, so they can't have a rational, logical, proof based debate about history.
Their only survival line is to drag the debate into illogical territory. Sentiments and fairytales.
These guys are a result of Nigeria's poor educational system, tribal biggotry and unlimited internet access which allows fools to speak with confidence and to be heard way more than they used to in the pre-internet world.

You can only imagine if these guys had access to world institutions that houses Benin world acclaimed records and achievements.

No matter what they come up with, there is very little they can do to undo or even diminished past Benin glories and greatness.

Where are they going to start from, is it to discredit the Benin moat that even surpassed any human structure ever built by man on planet earth at that time or is it the numerous art works that adores museums across the world, from Europe, Canada, America and Australia to mention a few.

Apart from these fabrication and distortions of Benin history online, what else do you really expect from this guys.

Imagine growing up to read in your history how Benin once decimated your land and beheaded your Obas and ruled over your land and people for whatever reason for centuries until the British came to liberate your people, what will you do, especially when you can't physically avenge the past.

Would you not also resort to the only weapons within your reach to piss and shit all over their history, would you not be angry that no matter what you write, there are still aspects of their history that are beyond reach.

What will you and can you do about their art works across the world still showcasing their greatness in far away lands to people of today and yet unborn, the moat, the greatest fit by any race, numerous documents in European archives spanning hundreds of years detailing eye witness accounts of their past glories and greatness, the bight of Benin, an international body of water carrying the name of Benin as a mark of recognition for it's greatness. Today, a country also bears the name Benin.

We sometimes have to allow these people to enjoy themselves online as a feel good factor.

There is a saying in Benin that after you beat up a child, you don't or shouldn't also deny the child the opportunity to cry.

samuk:


Guy,

You have time to waste and to listen to garbage as history.

They are telling you that the Early Europeans heard about this God King in Ife as far back as the 1300s and Benin confirmed his existence in 1400s when they visited Benin, yet as curious as the early Europeans were, they didn't find their way or ask the Benin to take them to Ife to go and see this almighty God king ...

I'm just seeing the contention above which you posted to gregyboy in an attempt to dissuade him from considering evidence. Lol.

To be fair to you, it's a fair contention at least for a begginer like you. But to respond to it (and thus to stabilize poor gregyboy ):

Ibn Battûta's 1352 "Voyages to Asia and Africa" which popularized the Ife country of the time ---- to the Europeans --- contains a very important point about Ife as follows:

A country that "No white man can enter ... because the negros will kill him before he arrives." --- (p.410)

To me, that is quite a good incentive for why the Europeans won't want to take what appears to be a foolish risk.


Having said that, I'm still waiting on you to return to the burial issue.

Do you need more time? Lol.

Cheers!

cc: gregyboy

ghostwon:


[s]Do you realize tat the guy whom you are engaging, that troll named tao quoted a specialist in ...mythology as a source while actually discussing history. The guy is a slowpoke. I really don't know why you guys are even talking to him. When a person doesn't see the difference between mythology and history, you know the guy is a slowpoke.


The map which he is circulating is a fictional one born from the period europeans were is some sort of hallucination and in search of a mythical christian king (prester john),

they first looked for him in asia, then they turned to africa, and drew maps supposedly showing his kingdom....On the map, the christian fanatics put a bunch of nonesense about places the map makers didn't know.

For some reason they just put one name "Orgvene"

which is supposed to be prester johns kingdom. For some other reasons, yoruba fanatics are interpreting

mythical "Orgvene" to actually be ife.

Although, on the more serious maps of that same era,

on the maps which show the region with great details and which were drawn by actual explorers for the purpose of informing european kings, you will see no Orgvene and even less ife. I will let you guess what you can actually see in these maps. (Great Benin empire)

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/66075/world-continents-typus-orbis-terrarum-americae-sive-no-ortelius[/s]

Although you couldn't direct your above comment at me, I actually find it laughably interesting enough to be deserving of my using it for entertainment.

Taking your jokes bold by bold:

(1) You're such a Janus-faced fatuous liar.

Professor Adam Knobler is a Historian --- a professor with expertise in tracing the history of the religions in the world.

Even a "specialist in ... mythology" (as you put it with ellipsis, lol), who alludes to Benin kingdom (among other people and places) in his work, does not necessarily do that because he thinks Benin kingdom is an imaginary, unreal, mythical fairytale.


(2) A "fictional map"?? (whatever that means ) made in the year 1525 by Laurent Fries, a French cartographer is --- in your humble opinion --- fictional because it does not feature gReAt bEnIn kInGdOm; but instead shows the "Kingdom of the Oghene" (as the ancient Binis themselves evidently call that sovereign)!

See the 1525 map in question here:

https://www.vintage-maps.com/en/antique-maps/africa/north-africa/fries-north-africa-1525::11887

Yes, the Europeans searched the whole world for a legendary Prester John who was very popular in their early folk-tale.

They knew it was time to search the West Africa region when Ibn Battûta returned to Europe in the mid-1300s with news of the rich king of the Mâlli kingdom and the great sovereign of Ife (whom the Binis will --- some years later --- 'name' to the Portuguese as Oghene).

So, may be Prester John wasn't a real figure eventually --- may be, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the king of the Mâlli kingdom is a real personage, and the sovereign of the Ife country is a real historical personage, as noted in Ibn Battûta's 1352 Voyages to Asia and Africa.


(3) You wrote: "For SOME REASON, they just put ONE NAME "Orgvene".

By God I haven't had such a good laugh in a long time. You should consider a career in comedy.

Lad, no they didn't just put one name. They actually put "Kingdom of the Oghene" --- Latin: "Regnum Orguene"

Remember this map in question is dated 1525, meaning that years before the making of this particular map, the Europeans had already (in the late 1400s) contacted the coast of the Nigeria region, and they had reached Benin Kingdom particularly.

This explains how a 1525 map of Africa made by Europeans could possibly have featured this name (i.e. Oghene) which is used, in reference to the overlord at Ife, particularly by the Binis.

You see how history checks out itself??


(4) "More serious maps"?? I swear you should take over from Bovi et al.

No, the ones you attached are simply latter maps, made at a future date when Benin kingdom too had started to become popular in Europe, especially following direct European contact in the late 1400s, in contrast to Ife's which they only knew of in the mid-1300s through Ibn Battûta's account.

And I have discussed in details why some of these latter maps feature Benin more visibly than other places. Refer to the link below for a reminder:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/11#87682150

cc: gregyboy

TAO11:

I'm just seeing the contention above which you posted to gregyboy in an attempt to dissuade him from considering evidence. Lol.

To be fair to you, it's a fair contention at least for a begginer like you. But to respond to it (and thus to stabilize poor gregyboy ):

Ibn Battûta's 1352 "Voyages to Asia and Africa" which popularized the Ife country of the time ---- to the Europeans --- contains a very important point as follows:

A country that "No white man can enter ... because the negros will kill him before he arrives." --- (p.410)

To me, that is quite a good incentive for why the Europeans won't want to take what appears to be a foolish risk.


Having said that, I'm still waiting on you to return to the burial issue.

Do you need more time? Lol.

Cheers!

cc: gregyboy

Please post links on the ibn reference

gregyboy:


Please post links on the ibn reference

No! Lol

You struggle with English, let alone Arabic, or even Ibn Battuta's Maghrebi Arabic original.

You need to pay your own price of accessing materials by yourself without begging for help in order to save face.

The onus on me is to quote and provide references, including page number most times.

I may choose on my own volition to go beyond the call of duty as I please, or depending on convinience.

modified:
I just saw where you wrote "Ibn" as though that's his first name and Battûta his second name. hahaha!

Ibn is not his name in any way, okay?

Instead, it's an Arabic practice by which Arabs refer to a person not by their first name, but by saying: "son of so-so". Lol.

Cheers!

ghostwon:

Total bullshit.
History is not propaganda.
It is not about writing whatever suits your ambitions of the momment.
Onitcha has nothing to do with nri !
Your story is stupid and an obvious scam.
What in hell is igboland ?
Which precolonial country is that ?
There is no such thing.

You wrote your rubbish just to take away Benin as source of the Anioma and replace it with nri. How dumb do you think people are ?
You hear the Anioma themselves tell you they are related to Benin, but of course you have to twist everything band turn it into nri instead.
"Nothing in common with Benin", the Obi of Onitcha carries a Benin sword !

Read this again and crie in silence :

There is nothing like Onitsha, what we have is Onicha, a pure Igbo word.

We have Onicha in Ebonyi State, Onicha Ngwa in Abia and Onicha in delta, IMO and Enugu.

Stop grabbing land dude.

ghostwon:


It seems you are a little bit confused.
It is true that some years ago, you were unable to use actual authentic maps in your speech. You didn't know where to find them. It is not my fault that you were even more incompetent than you are now.

I have never claimed that "any map showing Yoruba is fictional". I have actually posted precolonial maps showing oyo (Not that early, 18th century) and even one showing ife ( 19th century).

Your level has improved, in the fact that you were actually able to produce an authentic map for once, although a fictional one which still doesn't show ife.

Your reasoning faculties haven't improved. And your honesty hasn't either.
You are growing up, but you are still a toddler compared to me. Actually, when I am unwell and incapable of doing my usual deep reasoning like I do when doing complex mathematics, I am still a billion times smarter than you in your best.

Ghostwon, I swear no hating. But all your argument against macof shows you are shooting yourself in the foot. You need to calm down and read all what you posted. First you said you never claimed the map macof showed is fictional, now you are claiming it is fictional again in the same comment. There are so many holes in your argument, and your greatest undoing is using a map as an authority to validate Benin superiority, one which macof also produced. You see ghostwon, there's one thing I want you to know, there exist one thousand and one maps that were in circulation about Africa. Most, if not all of these maps were carved according to the expedition by the Europeans in their areas of interest. Most were circulated in Europe. Those that means it depict the accurate picture of kingdoms in Africa? No! Ghostwon you need to be objective and follow logic please and please. This is not even the argument about who is superior between the yorubas or benins, I can never be caught in such argument cos we are all in a deeep shit, we need to cover our face in shame, it this is what we are reduced to and for your information, I have relatives in Benin, blood relatives too.

See we need to be clear about maps regarding kingdoms in Africa, most of them were carted only for trade purpose (slave inclusive). You even went ahead to call the American source of macof maps an idiot, and you went a step further to validate your own. Bro you need to calm down and look at things objectively and you guys should stop the insult. It seems it is now a ritual of a thing to include insult in argument on this forum. Can't we do without insult

ghostwon:


It seems you are a little bit confused.
It is true that some years ago, you were unable to use actual authentic maps in your speech. You didn't know where to find them. It is not my fault that you were even more incompetent than you are now.

I have never claimed that "any map showing Yoruba is fictional". I have actually posted precolonial maps showing oyo (Not that early, 18th century) and even one showing ife ( 19th century).

Your level has improved, in the fact that you were actually able to produce an authentic map for once, although a fictional one which still doesn't show ife.

Your reasoning faculties haven't improved. And your honesty hasn't either.
You are growing up, but you are still a toddler compared to me. Actually, when I am unwell and incapable of doing my usual deep reasoning like I do when doing complex mathematics, I am still a billion times smarter than you in your best.

mumu
I wonder why a so called mathematician would not face his discipline but be thinking himself a better historian than all the historians of the world. Mathematical historian that has nothing but European flawed maps
You are sick

I'm sure mathematics isn't working for you.. Or anything for that matter
Because common sense should have hit you by now and you wouldn't be displaying this humiliating show of cognitive dissonance

TAO11:


No! Lol

You struggle with English, let alone Arabic, or even Ibn Battuta's Maghrebi Arabic original.

You need to pay your own price of accessing materials by yourself without begging for help in order to save face.

The onus on me is to quote and provide references, including page number most times.

I may choose on my own volition to go beyond the call of duty as I please, or depending on convinience.

modified:
I just saw where you wrote "Ibn" as though that's his first name and Battûta his second name. hahaha!

Ibn is not his name in any way, okay?

Instead, it's an Arabic practice by which Arabs refer to a person not by their first name, but by saying: "son of so-so". Lol.

Cheers!

All this arrogant ignorance won't let them learn
He say Ibn

macof:


All this arrogant ignorance won't let them learn
He say Ibn

Lol!

macof:


mumu
I wonder why a so called mathematician would not face his discipline but be thinking himself a better historian than all the historians of the world. Mathematical historian that has nothing but European flawed maps
You are sick

I'm sure mathematics isn't working for you.. Or anything for that matter
Because common sense should have hit you by now and you wouldn't be displaying this humiliating show of cognitive dissonance

Which Mathematician is he sef!?

Let me give him one BASIC Math problem now, he will delete his Nairaland account (for the second time) and flee.

hayoholla:


Ghostwon, I swear no hating. But all your argument against macof shows you are shooting yourself in the foot. You need to calm down and read all what you posted. First you said you never claimed the map macof showed is fictional, now you are claiming it is fictional again in the same comment.

1) Look, first of all, your buddy macof is the one who started insulting me and most of his "arguments" are not arguments rather just insults. So the fact you chose to call me out for insults rather than macof shows you may be extremely biased and trying to appear unbiased, and you are badly failing at that.
Second of all, I said no insult rather I gave macof some constructif criticism, unlike him who just throws unwaranted, and unconstructif insults which as i already said, replace his lack of actual arguments.
2) I see you have some problems with memory and comprehension: I said that I never told macof that the map was not "authentic".
"Authentic" and "fictional" are not contradictory.
In this context, you shall call a map of 16th century west Africa authentic if it was drawn in the 16th century. That doesn't mean it was not a work of fiction. In this case the map presented by your brother macof was clearly a work of fiction though authentic. It not only grossly lacked precision but it had names on it which are not on the actual more precise maps of the same era. It had Countries like Libya and many others far from their actual positions. The more serious maps of that same era do not make those mistakes.
Also, as I noticed, the map produced by your brother was attached to the quest of some hallucinating europeans who were on a quest to locate a mythical creature (prester john) and were making speculative maps of where his kingdom is.

hayoholla:


See we need to be clear about maps regarding kingdoms in Africa, most of them were carted only for trade purpose (slave inclusive). You even went ahead to call the American source of macof maps an idiot, and you went a step further to validate your own.

You must have a personal meaning for the word "source", because the person who drew the map produced by macof was european.
The maps was drawn in 1532.
As I can see, you know nothing about the topic, but I must have hurt your feelings by saying truth and making logical reasonings which go against yoruba dogma.
You have no lessons to give me on a topic in which you know nothing !
Although your brother macof doesn't know much on the topic neither.
I really couldn't care less of where you have relatives, facts don't change according to where your relatives reside, and this is the internet, everybody can tell lies about themselves on the internet, so no need to serve me useless lies about yourself.

Being an intellectual makes it painful to talk to people like you guys. Indeed, your level is way too low, which means I have to carry you and your weight somewhere around my level (it is a very long journey) in order to hope you would understand even a single notion which I am exposing.
I have some 16 year old high school students, and most of them are smarter than you guys. I seriously hope you guys are teenagers, if not, you are reta.rded.

AreaFada2:

Lol. Do you know people have spent decades of research doing research into these things?
The languages are not even similar.
Whereas bodily needs to tell you that Igbira and Yoruba are similar or that Benin and Urhobo or Degema are very close.

Again educate yourself properly. It's not my argument. It's convergence of local history, poetry and modern scientific research.

As we already know our SW people think they have monopoly of cleverness. Anyone not doing their bidding is stupid. Only tribal supremacy is important. Truth has no meaning. Even SW people bold enough to be objective is called "omale".
Oduduwa was an exiled Benin Prince. He didn't didn't descend from any bloody mountain, from any chain from heaven or magically wander across any God-forsaken Sahara desert from Israel or Arabia. The versions are so many that you should be ashamed telling your kids such humbug.

Quite pathetic for people who revel in and boast about being educated.

Lamurudun (Nimrod)the is the father of Odùduwà. Lamurudun is an ancient king in arabian peninsula but a pagan, idol worshipers. The Muslim wage war against him. According to history, he was the first black pharaohs.

The Muslim wage war against him and he escaped from his kingdom and search for new part. It is through journey he birth his child Odùduwà.

Go and Google the history of Lamurudun or Nimrod.

Nobody fall from the sky. Do your research well.

AreaFada2:

Lol. Do you know people have spent decades of research doing research into these things?
The languages are not even similar.
Whereas bodily needs to tell you that Igbira and Yoruba are similar or that Benin and Urhobo or Degema are very close.

Again educate yourself properly. It's not my argument. It's convergence of local history, poetry and modern scientific research.

As we already know our SW people think they have monopoly of cleverness. Anyone not doing their bidding is stupid. Only tribal supremacy is important. Truth has no meaning. Even SW people bold enough to be objective is called "omale".
Oduduwa was an exiled Benin Prince. He didn't didn't descend from any bloody mountain, from any chain from heaven or magically wander across any God-forsaken Sahara desert from Israel or Arabia. The versions are so many that you should be ashamed telling your kids such humbug.

Quite pathetic for people who revel in and boast about being educated.

Hello young man:

You deserve to see this. Read, and be glad that you did:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/11#87682523

Cheers!

Sewgon79:


Lamurudun (Nimrod)the is the father of Odùduwà. Lamurudun is an ancient king in arabian peninsula but a pagan, idol worshipers. The Muslim wage war against him. According to history, he was the first black pharaohs.

The Muslim wage war against him and he escaped from his kingdom and search for new part. It is through journey he birth his child Odùduwà.

Go and Google the history of Lamurudun or Nimrod.

Nobody fall from the sky. Do your research well.

Hehehehe. So Oduduwa didn't use chain to climb down from heaven again? And not coming down from the Hill? Abeg forget Nimrod.

Mankind originated from Africa. We came from no other Godforsaken place. We have only moved within this continent. It's others that moved out. Arabia was Islamized over 1,500 years ago. No evidence of Oduduwa until 12th century.

Sewgon79:


Lamurudun (Nimrod)the is the father of Odùduwà. Lamurudun is an ancient king in arabian peninsula but a pagan, idol worshipers. The Muslim wage war against him. According to history, he was the first black pharaohs.

The Muslim wage war against him and he escaped from his kingdom and search for new part. It is through journey he birth his child Odùduwà.

Go and Google the history of Lamurudun or Nimrod.

Nobody fall from the sky. Do your research well.

My bro, that Arabia/Lamurudu story is pseudohistory oo.

It all began with Johnson and his non-Yoruba, Hausa allies.

He never got that from the Yoruba people he was writting about.

See here:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/14#87905826

TAO11:


No! Lol

You struggle with English, let alone Arabic, or even Ibn Battuta's Maghrebi Arabic original.

You need to pay your own price of accessing materials by yourself without begging for help in order to save face.

The onus on me is to quote and provide references, including page number most times.

I may choose on my own volition to go beyond the call of duty as I please, or depending on convinience.

modified:
I just saw where you wrote "Ibn" as though that's his first name and Battûta his second name. hahaha!

Ibn is not his name in any way, okay?

Instead, it's an Arabic practice by which Arabs refer to a person not by their first name, but by saying: "son of so-so". Lol.

Cheers!

I just wanna say something its nice because without doubt i learnt from it,
Thanks anyway and checked the refrence i saw the site....


But bro those are excuses, no doubt also the name does not sound ife, it could be a mistaken identity ife we know is to easy to pronounce or even spell that one will find it difficult to say

Oghene in the map has no territorial boundary with southern nigeria

The story is alk full of crap

TAO11:


Lol! You're buying time.

(1) Anyways, for Oba Erediauwa's description of the Ooni of Ife as Oghene, I have refered you to his work. And the laughable excuse you came back with was rubbished in the sewage, after which you then kept shut on that point. Lol


(2) For the Portuguese's rendering of the Oghene as Ogané, etc., and for their learning at Benin kingdom that he is the most powerful monarch of the region; refer to the scholarly historical statements with detailed referencing in the 1st attachement below.


(3) For the 1525 French map which shows the words "Regnum Orguene" (Latin for: "Kingdom of the Oghene") written over the Nigeria region, with no recognition for Benin kingdom; see the 2nd attachment below.

Let me know if you have further questions.

cc: davidnazee ghostwon Lol

Post links

AreaFada2:


Hehehehe. So Oduduwa didn't use chain to climb down from heaven again? And not coming down from the Hill? Abeg forget Nimrod.

Mankind originated from Africa. We came from no other Godforsaken place. We have only moved within this continent. It's others that moved out. Arabia was Islamized over 1,500 years ago. No evidence of Oduduwa until 12th century.

The ''Yorubas'' are the descendants of Ham who was the third son of Noah. They are the direct ancestors of Cush, the son of Ham, and the black Cushite migrants and settlers that refused to go to Africa with the other descendants of Cush and his son Nimrod but that rather chose to settle in the ancient Cities of Mecca and Medina in what is presently known as Saudi Arabia. They were there as settlers for thousands of years and they constituted a prosperous powerful, large and respected minority within the larger Arab community. However they were eventually driven out of those Arab towns and communities and forced to leave them for refusing to give up their religious faith, their deep mysticism and paganism and their idol worship after Islam was introduced to those places by the Prophet Mohammed in 600 AD. They then migrated to the banks of the great River Nile in Egypt where they intermingled with the Egyptian Arabs, the Nubians and the Sudanese of the Nile. Many remained there but the bulk of them eventually migrated to what is now known as the north-eastern zone of Nigeria and once again mingled and bred with the Shuwa Arabs and the Kanuris of the Borno people. From there they eventually migrated down south to the forests and farm lands of what is now known as south-western Nigeria making their primary place and location of pagan worship Ile-Ife. Ife was to the Yoruba gods what Mecca is to the Muslims and the establishment of Ife as the centre of all that is Yoruba was confirmed by Oduduwa himself when he sent his sons out from Ife to other parts of Yorubaland to establish their own independent kingdoms. It was after that that we broke up into various kingdoms and communities within what is now known as south-western Nigeria. Some of those kingdoms and empires were sophisticated, powerful, large and great (like the Oyo Empire which was one of the greatest empires that ever existed on the African continent and indeed the world and which was responsible for halting the ''jihad'' of Usman Dan Fodio from coming any further south by defeating the Fulanis and their allies in battle and confining them to Ilorin) and some were not so great and large. These Yoruba kingdoms spent hundreds of years fighting one another in totally unnecessary wars but it is a historical fact that they were never defeated in any war or conquered by any foreign army. Yet the only thing that they had in common amongst themselves was their language (which broke into different dialects depending on where you were), their historical stock, their affinity and respect for Ile-Ife and their acknowledgement of it as being their spiritual home and their anthropological source. This group of different kingdom states with a common ancient root were collectively known as the ''Yoruba'' and the fact of the matter is that the word ''Yoruba'' has NO meaning in our language or any other language that is known to man. No-one has been able to tell us the meaning of the word ''Yoruba'' or indeed where it came from. This really is very strange and is indeed a deep and unsettling mystery. For all we know it could even be an ancient insult. That is why I have always preferred to be referred to as an ''Ife'' rather than a ''Yoruba''. Another question that is often asked is why did our forefathers indulge in all the mass migrations from first Mecca, then to Egypt, then to Borno and then finally to the plains and forests of what was to become, thousands of years later, the western region of modern-day Nigeria? Well my own personal theory is that the reason that our forefathers kept having to emigrate until we found somewhere of our own was because we refused to give up our pagan beliefs and practices and when Islam was eventually introduced or took full root in all the areas that we once settled our forefathers were no longer comfortable there and they must have suffered all manner of persecution for their tenacity to their ancient pagan and ''Ifa'' faith and practices. Whatever the reasons for the mass migrations may have been it is clear that the influences of paganism, their traditional faith of ''Ifa'' worship, the Egyptians, the Nubians, the Sudanese, the Arabs and the Kanuris is very strong amongst the Yorubas, their music, their language and their culture till today.

The religious faiths of Islam and Christianity both came much later and were both established primarily through the strong trade links that existed between the Yoruba and the north-western Hausa/Fulani caliphate from the north, the Turkish traders of the Ottoman empire of the southern Atlantic African coast from the south, the primarily Portuguese and European sailors and traders who plied that same southern Atlantic coast from the south and finally with the strong efforts of the Christian missionaries of both the Anglican and Catholic churches respectively. Both of these two great monotheic faiths of Christianity and Islam eventually took full root in the land and in the hearts and minds of the Yoruba people whilst paganism, the worship of ''ifa'' and the practice of our original and more traditional faith was eventually pushed to the back seat even though initially, and for hundreds of years, they were both fiercely resisted.

That is why, till today, it is very rare to find a Yoruba family that does not have Christians, Muslims and adherents of the more traditional and ancient tribal faiths in their ranks. The slow and massive migration of our forefathers from the Middle East, north Africa and north-eastern Nigeria to our own homelands in the south-west are why the Yoruba, together with the northerners of what is presently known as northern Nigeria are generally known as the ''Sudanese Nigerians'' whilst the Nigerians from the rest of southern Nigeria, which comprise of the Igbo race and the people of the south-south are generally known as the ''Bantu Nigerians''.

Chief Femi Fani-Kayode was the spokesperson to President Olusegun Obasanjo; he subsequently became Minister of Tourism & Culture & later served as Aviation Minister for Federal Republic of Nigeria.

Sewgon79:


The ''Yorubas'' are the descendants of Ham who was the third son of Noah. They are the direct ancestors of Cush, the son of Ham, and the black Cushite migrants and settlers that refused to go to Africa with the other descendants of Cush and his son Nimrod but that rather chose to settle in the ancient Cities of Mecca and Medina in what is presently known as Saudi Arabia. They were there as settlers for thousands of years and they constituted a prosperous powerful, large and respected minority within the larger Arab community. However they were eventually driven out of those Arab towns and communities and forced to leave them for refusing to give up their religious faith, their deep mysticism and paganism and their idol worship after Islam was introduced to those places by the Prophet Mohammed in 600 AD. They then migrated to the banks of the great River Nile in Egypt where they intermingled with the Egyptian Arabs, the Nubians and the Sudanese of the Nile. Many remained there but the bulk of them eventually migrated to what is now known as the north-eastern zone of Nigeria and once again mingled and bred with the Shuwa Arabs and the Kanuris of the Borno people. From there they eventually migrated down south to the forests and farm lands of what is now known as south-western Nigeria making their primary place and location of pagan worship Ile-Ife. Ife was to the Yoruba gods what Mecca is to the Muslims and the establishment of Ife as the centre of all that is Yoruba was confirmed by Oduduwa himself when he sent his sons out from Ife to other parts of Yorubaland to establish their own independent kingdoms. It was after that that we broke up into various kingdoms and communities within what is now known as south-western Nigeria. Some of those kingdoms and empires were sophisticated, powerful, large and great (like the Oyo Empire which was one of the greatest empires that ever existed on the African continent and indeed the world and which was responsible for halting the ''jihad'' of Usman Dan Fodio from coming any further south by defeating the Fulanis and their allies in battle and confining them to Ilorin) and some were not so great and large. These Yoruba kingdoms spent hundreds of years fighting one another in totally unnecessary wars but it is a historical fact that they were never defeated in any war or conquered by any foreign army. Yet the only thing that they had in common amongst themselves was their language (which broke into different dialects depending on where you were), their historical stock, their affinity and respect for Ile-Ife and their acknowledgement of it as being their spiritual home and their anthropological source. This group of different kingdom states with a common ancient root were collectively known as the ''Yoruba'' and the fact of the matter is that the word ''Yoruba'' has NO meaning in our language or any other language that is known to man. No-one has been able to tell us the meaning of the word ''Yoruba'' or indeed where it came from. This really is very strange and is indeed a deep and unsettling mystery. For all we know it could even be an ancient insult. That is why I have always preferred to be referred to as an ''Ife'' rather than a ''Yoruba''. Another question that is often asked is why did our forefathers indulge in all the mass migrations from first Mecca, then to Egypt, then to Borno and then finally to the plains and forests of what was to become, thousands of years later, the western region of modern-day Nigeria? Well my own personal theory is that the reason that our forefathers kept having to emigrate until we found somewhere of our own was because we refused to give up our pagan beliefs and practices and when Islam was eventually introduced or took full root in all the areas that we once settled our forefathers were no longer comfortable there and they must have suffered all manner of persecution for their tenacity to their ancient pagan and ''Ifa'' faith and practices. Whatever the reasons for the mass migrations may have been it is clear that the influences of paganism, their traditional faith of ''Ifa'' worship, the Egyptians, the Nubians, the Sudanese, the Arabs and the Kanuris is very strong amongst the Yorubas, their music, their language and their culture till today.

The religious faiths of Islam and Christianity both came much later and were both established primarily through the strong trade links that existed between the Yoruba and the north-western Hausa/Fulani caliphate from the north, the Turkish traders of the Ottoman empire of the southern Atlantic African coast from the south, the primarily Portuguese and European sailors and traders who plied that same southern Atlantic coast from the south and finally with the strong efforts of the Christian missionaries of both the Anglican and Catholic churches respectively. Both of these two great monotheic faiths of Christianity and Islam eventually took full root in the land and in the hearts and minds of the Yoruba people whilst paganism, the worship of ''ifa'' and the practice of our original and more traditional faith was eventually pushed to the back seat even though initially, and for hundreds of years, they were both fiercely resisted.

That is why, till today, it is very rare to find a Yoruba family that does not have Christians, Muslims and adherents of the more traditional and ancient tribal faiths in their ranks. The slow and massive migration of our forefathers from the Middle East, north Africa and north-eastern Nigeria to our own homelands in the south-west are why the Yoruba, together with the northerners of what is presently known as northern Nigeria are generally known as the ''Sudanese Nigerians'' whilst the Nigerians from the rest of southern Nigeria, which comprise of the Igbo race and the people of the south-south are generally known as the ''Bantu Nigerians''.

Chief Femi Fani-Kayode was the spokesperson to President Olusegun Obasanjo; he subsequently became Minister of Tourism & Culture & later served as Aviation Minister for Federal Republic of Nigeria.

Nor be only descendants of Ham, na descendants of Salami abi sausage. Hahahahaha!

ghostwon:


You must have a personal meaning for the word "source", because the person who drew the map produced by macof was european.
The maps was drawn in 1532.
As I can see, you know nothing about the topic, but I must have hurt your feelings by saying truth and making logical reasonings which go against yoruba dogma.
You have no lessons to give me on a topic in which you know nothing !
Although your brother macof doesn't know much on the topic neither.
I really couldn't care less of where you have relatives, facts don't change according to where your relatives reside, and this is the internet, everybody can tell lies about themselves on the internet, so no need to serve me useless lies about yourself.

Being an intellectual makes it painful to talk to people like you guys. Indeed, your level is way too low, which means I have to carry you and your weight somewhere around my level (it is a very long journey) in order to hope you would understand even a single notion which I am exposing.
I have some 16 year old high school students, and most of them are smarter than you guys. I seriously hope you guys are teenagers, if not, you are reta.rded.

These people are baffling in how they spread ignorance with so much bravado. I have been with them here for years now.

I'd have preferred not to engage them but Benins say: Kpe n'ikpe, emwin ne oma semwin ye Ezomo dien Ero. Roughly meaning in the specific case "ignore their wild assertions and it can become perceived as the truth by silent readers here". And there are many.

ghostwon:
Look at this time traveller telling us stories with no dates and no proofs and which didn't take place before his eyes.

Myths and other fictions are not history. You call me revisionist and then proceed to tell stories with no proof.

Facts: ife was a small village when the British arrived and took over without a single shot.

Benin was an empire and fought against the British.
Precolonial map of Benin below.
The people rewriting history are the guys who fed you all these lies which you repeated as your gospel.

My brother, according to history before British even get to Ife, they have already taken over your so called Benin empire. So no British take over IFE, what you don't know is that IFE has spiritual guidance and protection that didn't allow any British overtake them. If you have any account or proof or history books where British soldiers of colonial takeover ife the way they send your fearful King on exile. Please provide it. I will be glad to read.

gregyboy:


Post links

Lol! I actually made three claims there.

I chose not to give you a weblink for only one of them for personal private reasons.

In order to meet my burden of proof, I alternatively gave you a word-for-word quotation with full referencing of an authoritative historical statement.

Yet, you are here begging miserably for links (even in the plural?? lol), unveiling your gross incompetence in accessing academic resources.

Hello young man, no be me say make you useless. Be gone!

TAO11:


Which Mathematician is he sef!?

Let me give him one BASIC Math problem now, he will delete his Nairaland account (for the second time) and flee.

You really cracked me up here.

AreaFada2:


Nor be only descendants of Ham, na descendants of Salami abi sausage. Hahahahaha!

This is where Yoruba history becomes interesting, various versions of Oduduwa, from descending from heaven with chain to being descendants of Ham.

At times it's good to just sit back and watch them argue with themselves.

gregyboy:


[s]I just wanna say something its nice because without doubt i learnt from it,
(1) Thanks anyway and checked the refrence i saw the site....

But bro those are excuses, no doubt also the name

(2) does not sound ife, it could be a mistaken identity ife we know is to easy to pronounce or even spell that one will find it difficult to say

(3) Oghene in the map has no territorial boundary with southern nigeria.

(4) The story is alk full of crap[/s]

(1) What "website" are you talking about?? Did you take kai-kai again??

(2) You mean "Uhe" does not sOuNd "Ife"??

Well, tell that to Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II et al. who all insist (although correctly) that the ancient Bini articulation of "Ife" is "Uhe".

Wow!! Very close in "sOuNd"!! Isn't it?? Lol!

Moreover, please render me "Ife" (or "Ufe" --- the Ijebu articulation till date, as well as the Itsekiri articulation) in Maghrebi Arabic, I want to check something.

See, if you're paasionate about discussing history, you know where you belong --- beer parlor!

(3) No boundary??

If true, that makes my point even stronger. In other words, his domain is limitless.

(4) The only "crap" here is the comment I just replied to.


See, I understand that you're simply mourning your loss and buying time, I am also simply playing along!

You will eventually get over this sorrow! I didnt mean to hurt you all's feelings.

gomojam:
You really cracked me up here.

Lol.

We know people like him na.

samuk:


This is where Yoruba history becomes interesting, various versions of Oduduwa, from descending from heaven with chain to being descendants of Ham.

At times it's good to just sit back and watch them argue with themselves.

Did your first Ogiso not dive into "Benin City" from the sky??

In other words, every culture of the world have what is called mythology.

The difference, however, is that every ancient culture of the world --- except the Bini --- rock their mythology proudly as part of their heritage!

TAO11:


Did your first Ogiso not dive into "Benin City" from the sky??

In other words, every culture of the world have what is called mythology.

The difference, however, is that every ancient culture of the world --- except the Bini --- rock their mythology proudly as part of their heritage!

Don't mind the hypocrite.

samuk:


This is where Yoruba history becomes interesting, various versions of Oduduwa, from descending from heaven with chain to being descendants of Ham.

At times it's good to just sit back and watch them argue with themselves.

Kikikikiki.

In SS people say na backyard of foolish man cunning man dey die put.

Our SW people in an attempt to be too smart came up with a story of one Oduduwa as progenitor of all Yoruba people.

Speaking from both sides of the mouth and everyone forming sophisticated intellectual brings about many watery versions.

Oduduwa lived roughly same time as Genghis Khan, in the 12th Century. There is no way he could have fathered all Yoruba. Who must be at least 20 to 25 worldwide. Oduduwa is at most a spiritual father of most Yorubas because they wanted a politically unifying or rallying point after all their internecine and destructive civil wars.

Genghis Khan though rumored to have millions of biological descendants, the alleged Y-Chromosome attributed to Khan has never been proven to actually belong to him. Even though Genghis and his sons after him over-ran Asia, Eurasia, totally destroyed the then Capital of Russia Kiev, took China and pushed into Europe. Much less Oduduwa without any incontrovertible evidence of many war conquests over huge areas.