TAO11:


No the facial marks is of the Yagba-Yoruba subgroup.

And according to Andrew Apter, a group of Yagba Yoruba occupy an Ife ward where the Iyagba dialect is still sometimes spoken.

Such cat-whisker marking is alien to Benin.

Moreover their is nothing Benin about a wrapper and a top. In fact.

Benin messengers go about naked without clothes.

Ijebu (at least) introduced a heavy presence of clothes to ancient Benin.

gregyboy:


[s]Alk goy saying his trash telk the tso11 to send me the book of afam knobler the book he attest to reffered ogene as ife

And yea we had no connection with ife, foreign account agreed to it
If you wanna argue it am here

You just came to say trash please go back and hide yourself in the background[/s]

gregyboy:



[s]Are you mad or you trying to pulk my legs.[/s]

TAO11:


That Mr. A has certain items, etc. is no evidence that such items is not foumd elsewhere.

And as I have shown such cat whisker marking are also common among the Yagba-Yoruba some group of which are said to occupy an Ife ward.

See my foregoing comment.

What is certain at least is that such marking is alien to Benin.

See also the Ife terracota head below:

gregyboy:



That wss not an ife messanger ooh guy i go shout ooh

That sculpture is a 15century sculpture made by the benins at the time the Portuguese had made contact with the benins, the Portuguese never recorded account of benin and ife interactions

The Portuguese were told by the benins about oghene to be a powerful priest and this sculpture was made in 15c were the Portuguese never experienced any ife - benin interactions
The Portuguese noted kingdom benins had interactions with never at one tims theg mentioned uhe or ife in thief texf


Again afc ryder did wrote is works on document from Portuguese account and had discovered were the Oghene they benins mentioned could be located if anything was wrong in ryders work definitely no his location

Oga download pages of the book and send here
Accept thesame book would bite you if you post it lol like it did in ryders article


Atleast lets see three or four scholars who had agreed to adam knobler write up i never said you should post all scholars


Again how did Adam himself get into the conclusion that ife was oghene if its on that sculpture then is entire work was wrong, if we are to follow the Oduduwa myth benin only had connections with ife at 10c


Again why would benin call ooni oghene in the first place is ooni that hard to prononce, get it benin dont only reffered to ife as uhe strangers outside benin are calked uhe so oghene n uhe meant a different stranger from ife

gregyboy:


Yea they are aliens but no aliens to the tribss Ryder made mention on so Ryder is still on right track

Does ife were an helment as such describe by the artwork i guess no, does ife also wear crosses i guess no

Guess what i saw similar cross the messager wore on a nupe artwork

TAO11:


Yes, and Ryder said he wasnt sure what he is saying.

He used the word probably all through.


Moreover, scholars have long and till date nlted that Benin bronzes with cat whiskers are messangers from Ife.


And the Benin bronzes showing the crosses all have cat whiskers.

samuk:


[s]Whilst you carry on this debate/argument just remember that no matter what you produce to prove the Yorubas wrong they are not going to let go of Benin/Ife connection, it means the world to them, they have invested so much on it, without it they will have no solid history to brag about.

You carry on and enjoy yourself but remember the Yorubas are not going to let go, no matter what[/s].

gregyboy:



Probably from nupe or igala as stated by ryder


Are you sending me the book,

Please i want to read the book myself from Adam knobler

TAO11:


Except that he hasn't that he hasn't produces any lie that has not been debunked.



Wait, you failed to say a word in relation to your my reply to your damage control and cheap excuse that some Obas were buried buried outside of Benin.

I've shown that burial outside of Benin is no way imaginable a detterent to the tradition of exhuming their heads.

Your second cheap excuse that Orhogbua drowned and his corpse went missing was shown to be a blatant lie in its entirety.

Moreso, there is no historical record to justify the imagination that the Benin Navy lackedthe will and interest in rescuing the floating corpse of Oba Ehengbuda.


You were exposed and you kept mute and quickly clung to the side point of some alleged Ife-traditiom on female Obas of Benin which I also beat you back to silence on.

If you stand for the truth, you dont have to remember anything

Quit lying today!

I am still coming back to write a summary on the Orun Oba Ado issue having beat you to silence on it with historical and archaeological evidence.

TAO11:


He didn't say probably Nupe or Igala.

Instead, he used the word probably for the whole of the confluence region.

And I'm not sending you no book.

I refuse to be a party to fraud.

Get your lazy ass out of your mama's house as soon as you can, and get to hustle and access relevant materials legally.

gregyboy:


Yea they are aliens but no aliens to the tribss Ryder made mention on so Ryder is still on right track

Does ife were an helment as such describe by the artwork i guess no, does ife also wear crosses i guess no

Guess what i saw similar cross the messager wore on a nupe artwork



The problem am having is adam knobler said scholars had agreed oghene is ife he didnt say he had agreed to it tho, but rathers scholars and he failed to mention not even one scholar at any point, and yea some scholars had always agreed oghene was ife also in the past and present does that make them right?..


The screenshot you posted claiming its amazon looks more like a jstoor page


Samuk

samuk:


Whilst you carry on this debate/argument just remember that no matter what you produce to prove the Yorubas wrong, they are not going to let go of Benin/Ife connection, it means the world to them, they have invested so much on it, without it they will have no solid history to brag about.

You carry on and enjoy yourself but remember the Yorubas are not going to let go, no matter what.

They need Benin to validate Ife.

samuk:


(1) Most Benin known all along that the Benin/Ife connection was a fallacy let alone Orun Oba Ado.

(2) I know it means the world to Yoruba history and without it, you guys are left with almost nothing and a watering history.

(3) [s]Benin history have much more to offer without the Ife lies. Some of us like to have fun on these your provocative threads when will have the time.[/s]


(4) I already provided a link to your Yoruba brother thread here on nairaland that started these Orun Oba Ado lies in 2014, the lies started with two sites, one for Male and the other for female Obas of Benin.

It was when it was pointed out that Benin forbids female being Oba, you guys took the correction and came back with a reversed version of the lies.

Fortunately, there are other aspects of Benin history that are currently beyond you guys reach.

gregyboy:


Samuk please follow me on this one

Toaf11 had agreed that messenger was sent from ife because of the facial markings on the image below in return i posted two images of an igala and a nupe guy having such markings on thier faces like whisker as stated by afc ryder works

i had found a cross like the one the messenger is holding from a nupe artwork too


Proving afc Ryder's work correct
But the guy still insist many scholars says the sculpture is ife

And do you know what Ile ife tribak mark is a vertical front face tribal mark and not sided parallel lines like the sculpture depicit

samuk:


Whilst you carry on this debate/argument just remember that no matter what you produce to prove the Yorubas wrong, they are not going to let go of Benin/Ife connection, it means the world to them, they have invested so much on it, without it they will have no solid history to brag about.

You carry on and enjoy yourself but remember the Yorubas are not going to let go, no matter what.

They need Benin to validate Ife.

TAO11:


I have provided evjdence for the same marks in Ife in scholarly statement as well as in Ife terracota work.

There s no such Nupe Artwork showing messengers with cross.

If you had you will provided reference to it by caution, screenshot, or link, or any other reference for that matter.


Ryder himself noted that he doesn't knlw if he his correct, but gregyboy is telling him "shut up! you're correct"

Anyways, modern scholarship has finally proven conclusively that both Ryder (who thinks he's not sure, and you who strangely insist that he is correct) are all wrong.


Again, I have adduced evidence that the cat whisker markings are also found in Ife.

gregyboy:



Lol, your point on adam knobler works is invalid them, if you cant post prove

You cant tell a judge to go get evidence himself
Since he is the one judging the case, no it aint done thst way, your brother will be angry with you
On this one


Oga please post it lets the audience read it, would you want to loose an argument just for a little demand like this


You still have the book just send a 35 page of the book hete on nairaland letme read it myself

gregyboy:



I noticed too that that sculpture was not just having only an ife ife tribal marking it was not also having the facial scarification popular to the yorubas in ancient and they went ahead to show it relevance by depicting in thier artwork

Ruling all this out this sculpture was not an ife man

TAO11:


I have provided evjdence for the same marks in Ife in scholarly statement as well as in Ife terracota work.

There s no such Nupe Artwork showing messengers with cross.

If you had you will provided reference to it by caution, screenshot, or link, or any other reference for that matter.


Ryder himself noted that he doesn't knlw if he his correct, but gregyboy is telling him "shut up! you're correct"

Anyways, modern scholarship has finally proven conclusively that both Ryder (who thinks he's not sure, and you who strangely insist that he is correct) are all wrong.


Again, I have adduced evidence that the cat whisker markings are also found in Ife.



Prove it with pictures

TAO11:


Mo Ryder said he is not sure of what he is saying oo!

Which scholar said certain artwork wears helmet. I think you're hallucinating.

What scholars say instead is that the Ogane sends brass helmet (among other thins) to the incoming Oba of Benin.


And guess what, some of such brass helmets survives till date.

Guess their name: They are called Oduduwa helmet mask. Research it and revert back here.


You lie for a living just like the father kf lie himself.

Post here the picture of the ancient Nupe artwork showing the crosses on messengers.

How in your twisted mind doea the picture of pots, woods and people mean the same thing as a Nupe artwork of depictingesswngers adorn crosses??

Again you're deliberately dumb! Adam Knobler already knows himself to be a scholar, and he doesn't have to keep repeating "I too am a scholar" everytime he mentions what scholars say as a consensus.

He doesnt battle inferiority complex like you. He is no gregyboy.


And regarding Amazon or jstor, I never posted you any such screenshot. I think you're feeling the brunt of sleep deprivation already.

What I posted to you is an link to Amazon where you can pay fkr the book and stop hoping on fraud.

gregyboy:
Prove with pictures

gregyboy:



Nigga Adam knobler said scholars agreesprobably the ife scholars he was referring to
[s]All he could say was scholars agreesa

Nigga stop reading such poor books it makes you go dementia[/s]

gregyboy:
oya prove it with pictures or even artefact

gregyboy:



[s]That wss not an ife messanger ooh guy i go shout ooh

That sculpture is a 15century sculpture made by the benins at the time the Portuguese had made contact with the benins, the Portuguese never recorded account of benin and ife interactions

The Portuguese were told by the benins about oghene to be a powerful priest and this sculpture was made in 15c were the Portuguese never experienced any ife - benin interactions
The Portuguese noted kingdom benins had interactions with never at one tims theg mentioned uhe or ife in thief texf


Again afc ryder did wrote is works on document from Portuguese account and had discovered were the Oghene they benins mentioned could be located if anything was wrong in ryders work definitely no his location

Oga download pages of the book and send here
Accept thesame book would bite you if you post it lol like it did in ryders article


Atleast lets see three or four scholars who had agreed to adam knobler write up i never said you should post all scholars


Again how did Adam himself get into the conclusion that ife was oghene if its on that sculpture then is entire work was wrong, if we are to follow the Oduduwa myth benin only had connections with ife at 10c


Again why would benin call ooni oghene in the first place is ooni that hard to prononce, get it benin dont only reffered to ife as uhe strangers outside benin are calked uhe so oghene n uhe meant a different stranger from ife[/s]

babtoundey:
TAO11, You are doing a wonderful job. You're not just giving them troubles by making them know the truth for what it is but also giving clearer picture of Ife/Benin connection to those who care to know.

What can be more interesting, you have pushed them so hard, lashed them so hard that they are now doubting what they used to think is a catholic truth. They now consider Ife/Benin relationship; the existence of Izeduwa, Oranmiyan, Eweka, as a subterfuge. What can be more hilarious! I guess in few months time, they will converge and come up with a fashion which will purport that Oranmiyan came from Igal/Nupe- after all, they are at ease knowing and accepting Ogene being referred to is an Igala/Nupe king.

Well done, bro.

babtoundey:
TAO11, You are doing a wonderful job. You're not just giving them troubles by making them know the truth for what it is but also giving clearer picture of Ife/Benin connection to those who care to know.

What can be more interesting, you have pushed them so hard, lashed them so hard that they are now doubting what they used to think is a catholic truth. They now consider Ife/Benin relationship; the existence of Izeduwa, Oranmiyan, Eweka, as a subterfuge. What can be more hilarious! I guess in few months time, they will converge and come up with a fashion which will purport that Oranmiyan came from Igal/Nupe- after all, they are at ease knowing and accepting Ogene being referred to is an Igala/Nupe king.

Well done, bro.

Astark:
[s]Very soon wellw start hearing yoruba were not take as slaves by the foreigners lmao.

Anything to rewrite history and claim their ethnic group as superior.

Like I said here before, everyone know the truth and this thread is a waste of time.[/s]

gregyboy:



I noticed too that that sculpture was not just having only an ife ife tribal marking it was not also having the facial scarification popular to the yorubas in ancient and they went ahead to show it relevance by depicting in thier artwork

Ruling all this out this sculpture was not an ife man

samuk:


(1) The sculpture couldn't have been Ife because Benin hadn't made any contact with Ife at this period, 15th century. No evidence to support such contact.

(2) You can compare this sculpture with the Ife one TA011 produced, they don't match.

(3) Benin sculptures are always very detailed and accurate and the photo of the sculpture you provided matches the photo of Nupe people you provided to support it.

(4) Any fair minded person can see that the sculpture couldn't have depicted an Ife massager but Nupe messager.

(5) Unless they also want to come up with some lie on how the cross the figure is wearing round his neck got to Ife in the 15th century and nothing survived in Ife till date to support it.

(6) The Portuguese wrote about the Benin/Ida/Igala people at that time but no early Europeans wrote anything about Benin/Ife for the first three hundred years of their contact with Benin.

(7) [s]The Yoruba have no concrete and authentic evidence to back up the Benin/Ife connection, the story was initially fabricated in the 19th century to unite the western Benin and Yoruba people but the union fell apart when Yoruba political elites started their usual tribalism.

The Benin led the rest of the people of it's former kingdom out to form the Mid West.[/s]

(8 ) If Ife was that prominent at the 15th century and was closely linked to Benin, there would have been numerous surviving evidence from that period.

An earthquake didn't happen in Ife to destroy their evidences neither were their evidences looted and stolen.

I did mention the Emue-mue statue at Ikpoba hill commemorating the Benin/Idah war and there are other evidence in Benin about early Benin/Idah relationship.

You can hardly find anything that support the Benin/Ife connection at this earliest times of 15c, 16c and 17c.

(9) [s]If you notice my earlier post on this thread, I did mention that there were no contact between Benin and Ife recorded for centuries.

There are far more known between Benin/Akure relationship than Benin/Ife relationship.

Like I said before, you can continue to enjoy yourself debating/arguing with them.

One thing is for sure, they have learned new things from this debate.

You have done more than enough damage to their lies already with all your evidence and the way you disproved their watering sources.

Others tribes and even some of their Yoruba people that will read this thread will begin to see the lies in the Benin/Ife fabrications.

The lies is no longer as solid as it was to them before the beginning of this thread.

As for must Benin people, we knew all along that the Benin/Ife connection was a fabrication.

Next, you will begin to see them shutting cheap irrelevant diversionary shots which are usually the mark of those that have lost the battle/debate/argument.[/s]

Good job.