TAO11:
MetaPhysical, please don't address samuk 's latest distraction attempt at Edo vs. Onitcha.

He should create a selarate thread on that and tag us accordingly if he wants to pursue tgat course.

No come and spoil fun here. We still dey enjoy this one

Metaphysical actually created another joke thread claiming Edo migrated from Onitsha, he was looking to Igbo for support, I chased him out of that thread, so he came here to carry on joking.

He said Oghene or Ogane could be the Igbo Eri

Whilst we continue enjoying ourselves, you guys still have to be reminded about the super human fit that was required to create the great Benin wall. It's up to you to ignore the information.

One of many aspects of Benin history you can't forge or joke about.

gomojam:
TAO11 we ma sofo omo. Wa gbo Wa pe we ni raun we ni rago. Nain nain ko se mo e lara be. Wo se omo iye mi.

It's prayer (sorry I had to use my native dialect cos am overjoyed)

Ase!!!

I second that prayer. She killed it....over and over and over.

I am yet to see anyone with a superior submission and meticulously organized evidence has TAO has done.

I just dont know how to reward her but I would love to. Deserves it!

MetaPhysical:


Ase!!!

I second that prayer. She killed it....over and over and over.

I am yet to see anyone with a superior submission and meticulously organized evidence has TAO has done.

I just dont know how to reward her but I would love to. Deserves it!

So are you now abandoning your Edo migrated from Onitsha joke. Let us know that you were also joking.

samuk:


Metaphysical actually created another joke thread claiming Edo migrated from Onitsha, he was looking for Igbo for support, I chased him out of that thread, so he came here to carry on joking.

He said Oghene or Ogane could be the Igbo Eri

Looking for Igbo support I see!
So what you guys do online is source for support. It makes sense now why you open 10 threads all about Benin vs Yoruba......because you are looking for support.

The thread i opened was to go through East to see where that road would lead. Go and read what i typed from Acholonu's submission.

There were two Idu
Oduduwa
Eri.

No where was Benin mentioned.

The evidence does not need support....it needs ACCEPTANCE!

samuk:


So are you now abandoning your Edo migrated from Onitsha joke. Let us know that you were also joking.

That thread is very painful to you. See as you are crying about it.

From any angle you look at it ....Benin is Inferior!

TAO11:


Tufiakwa!!!

MetaPhysical:


That thread is very painful to you. See as you are crying about it.

From any angle you look at it ....Benin is Inferior!

Benin is inferior, says who, a faceless nairalander.

But the rest of humanity acknowledged Benin to be the greatest black race on earth.

Guinness book of world records says so. Something none of you can joke about.

gomojam:
TAO11 we ma sofo omo. Wa gbo Wa pe we ni raun we ni rago. Nain nain ko se mo e lara be. Wo se omo iye mi.

It's prayer (sorry I had to use my native dialect cos am overjoyed)

Ase wa!!

I understand your native dialect. I have Ijebu connection from Iremo quarters in Ife through Ishagamu Remo to Ikorodu Oga.

Eso e ... Omo Alare. Oshe mi dupe oo.

Ama dare ama sunwon re oo.


Wa gbo, wa to oo!

MetaPhysical:


Looking for Igbo support I see!
So what you guys do online is source for support. It makes sense now why you open 10 threads all about Benin vs Yoruba......because you are looking for support.

The thread i opened was to go through East to see where that road would lead. Go and read what i typed from Acholonu's submission.

There were two Idu
Oduduwa
Eri.

No where was Benin mentioned.

The evidence does not need support....it needs ACCEPTANCE!

Oduduwa is now Idu. It this another joke? If it is, it's very funny. How confused can one person be.

Interesting

samuk:


[s]Metaphysical actually created another joke thread claiming Edo migrated from Onitsha, he was looking for Igbo for support, I chased him out of that thread, so he came here to carry on joking.

He said Oghene or Ogane could be the Igbo Eri

Whilst we continue enjoying ourselves, you guys still have to be reminded about the super human fit that was required to create the great Benin wall, up to you to ignore the information.

One of many aspects of Benin history you can't forge or joke about.[/s]

Go and discuss there on the thread and tag us accordingly.

It is clear that he was mocking your megalomania on that Oghene/Eri.

I have tagged you on where said he knew all along that the Oghene was the Ooni of Ife.

The only surprising thing is that you didn't know even up till now that the joke was on you.

Stop giving off the false impression to some gullible Binis that you're addressing anything here on this thread.

You adressed nothing!

samuk:


Oduduwa is now Idu. It this another joke? If it is, it's very funny. How confused can one person be.

Interesting

Idu has always been a Yoruba word.
Do you not know?

TAO11:


Go and discuss there on the thread and tag us accordingly.

Stop giving off the false impression to some gullible Binis that you're addressing anything here on this thread.

You adressed nothing!

People can see that I am doing a good job addressing and enjoying Metaphysical jokes.

Do you need a pair of glasses to see better.

Please don't come and spoil my fun. Are you a kill joy.

TAO11:


Ase wa!!

I understand your native dialect. I have Ijebu connection from Iremo quarters in Ife through Ishagamu Remo to Ikorodu Oga.

Eso e ... Omo Alare. Oshe mi dupe oo.

Ama dare ama sunwon re oo.


Wa gbo, wa to oo!

Ase!
Wow! Good to know that.

MetaPhysical:


Idu has always been a Yoruba word.
Do you not know?

Okay, so Idu was both known as Oduduwa and Eri.

Please don't mind that interloper TAO11, teach us and humour me with this story.

I swear if I were Edo I would not allow my King to sit in this gathering.

It validates and reinforces every written and oral records that says Benin is inferior to Ife.

If no one ever believed de Barros, seeing this picture they will believe him now.

Pictures dont lie!

Benin is inferior to Ife!

Prince Charles returned to put the record in picture.

samuk:


[s]People can see that I am doing a good job addressing and enjoying Metaphysical jokes.

Do you need a pair of glasses to see better.

Please don't come and spoil my fun. Are you a kill joy.[/s]

No, you doing a woeful and miserable damage control job.

You're only desperately clutching at straws while trying to forcefully create a new topic because you lost miserably on all the three issues I brought up.

Get yourself off the ground, dust your self, and run away.

Create a new thread for your distractions and tag us accordingly.

Otherwise I will have to copy my precious comments and post them at the last page here every night for more visibility ---- your worst nightmare.

samuk:


People can see that I am doing a good job addressing and enjoying Metaphysical jokes.

Do you need a pair of glasses to see better.

Please don't come and spoil my fun. Are you a kill joy.

You are defeated. Now you want to turn it to personal attacks.

Where is your Benin superiority now?

Tell me....where is Benin superiority?

TAO11:

No, you doing a woeful and miserable damage control job.

You're only desperately clutching at straws while trying to forcefully create a new topic because you lost miserably on all the three issues I brought up.

Get yourself off the ground, dust your self, and run away.

Create a new thread for your distractions and tag us accordingly.

Otherwise I will have to copy my precious comments and post tgem at the last page here every night for more visibility ---- your worst nightmare.

Please relax,

Metaphysical just informed us that Idu used to be both Oduduwa and Eri.

Allow the guy to teach yours something new, or is that not why we are here, please stop controlling the guy like you know everything.

You may learn new information you don't previously known.

Metaphysical is big enough to handle himself, don't make him look like he doesn't know what he is saying.

MetaPhysical:



You are defeated. Now you want to turn it to personal attacks.

Where is your Benin superiority now?

Tell me....where is Benin superiority?

Please tell me how Idu was Oduduwa and Eri. Don't allow anyone to prevent you from sharing your version of history the way you know it.

Then again, you can always quite if you are not so sure of yourself and the validity of your history.

All the Benins here don't neccessarily say the same thing.

They all have independence of thoughts, nobody controls anybody.

Present your information and stand by it, nobody knows everything.

MetaPhysical:


Ase!!!

I second that prayer. She killed it....over and over and over.

I am yet to see anyone with a superior submission and meticulously organized evidence has TAO has done.

I just dont know how to reward her but I would love to. Deserves it!

She really did and deserves reward for it . You are doing a good job too, kudos.
We allowed them (Benins) to run amok for too long they now mistook our tolerance and civility for cluelessness and cowardice.

I believe they learnt their lessons now even though they don't wanna openly admit.

samuk:


Please tell me how Idu was Oduduwa and Eri.

I said clearly what Acholonu said.

Go to that thread, we will iron it out.

On this thread here, you are defeated.

Accept your inferior Benin and move on to the other thread for a repeat beating.

Dont mess up this thread i love it the way it is.

gomojam:
She really did and deserves reward for it . You are doing a good job too, kudos.
We allowed them (Benins) to run amok for too long they now mistook our tolerance and civility for cluelessness and cowardice.

I believe they learnt their lessons now even though they don't wanna openly admit.

Not quite, we are still learning new things thanks to Metaphysical.

We are waiting for him to teach us more on how Idu was Oduduwa or Eri.

MetaPhysical:


I said clearly what Acholonu said.

Go to that thread, we will iron it out.

On this thread here, you are defeated.

Accept your inferior Benin and move on to the other thread for a repeat beating.

Dont mess up this thread i love it the way it is.

GBAM!

MetaPhysical:


I said clearly what Acholonu said.

Go to that thread, we will iron it out.

On this thread here, you are defeated.

Accept your inferior Benin and move on to the other thread for a repeat beating.

Dont mess up this thread i love it the way it is.

So you will not be teaching us how Idu was Oduduwa.

This thread topic is how Ooni claimed Benin to be part of Yoruba kingdom.

So are you no longer sure of how Idu was Oduduwa or is this another jokes of yours.

Why do you want to run to another thread to discuss Benin/Ife and Oduduwa history.

You guys seems to be the one running away from the topic now.

samuk:


Not quite, we are still learning new things thanks to Metaphysical.

We are waiting for him to teach us more on how Idu was Oduduwa or Eri.

Then go to that thread and mention him there while registering for tuition.

I am sure he is more than capable to make you comprehend.

gomojam:
Then go to that thread and mention him there while registering for tuition.

I am sure he is more than capable to make you comprehend.

He said Idu was Oduduwa.

We are discussing Benin/Ife Oduduwa relationship on this thread, why go to another thread to continue a topic that is relevant to this thread.

Are we not allowed to ask questions anymore.

I need to know the connection between Idu and Oduduwa, if he is no longer sure of himself or was joking, he should just say so. It will not be the first time he has joked so far.

You don't determine what aspect of Benin/Ife and Oduduwa that should be discussed here, if someone raises new information, we are allowed to ask questions.

If you guys are tired of discussing Benin/Ife Oduduwa relationship, say so and take a break.

We are not supposed to be fighting but learning from each other.

TAO11:


You are a fatuous lair, and that's why I requested that your parents talk to me and not you.

No renowned writer said anywhere that there are no Ife-Benin relationship, you Janus-faced wide-mouthed insanely mor0nic liar.



It's not my fault that you're just learning to read and you need pictures beside texts.

Moreover, you just admitted the very thing I've been repeating since that you sit down imagine anything and come to Nairaland and type uncoordinated stuffs like Benin Kingdom have been existing before God.

That's what happen when you ignore experts and want to take their job despite admitting that you're still learn to read on your own.

before I curse you, give that phone to your parents and let them, talk to me, not you.

400c that 500yrs


Sarah20A

gregyboy:


400c that 500yrs


Sarah20A

I can't believe that the Yorubas are so dull not to know the implication of what we are trying to save them from.

By forcefully writing themselves into Benin history, it gives seniority to the Oba of Benin over all Yoruba Obas. So much for their sophistication and cleverness.

This implication was not lost on the source you quoted because he even alluded to it.

Most scholars and historians of Yoruba history agree that Oranmiyan came to Benin and had his first child who became the Oba of Benin, he then went to Oyo to have his second child, the Alafin of Oyo and returned to rule Ife where he possibly had other children who carried on as Ooni.

The reason for the seniority tussle between the old Ooni and Alaafin.

Alaafin being the second son to Oranmiyan cant be junior to Oranmiyan later children who took over in Ife.

Some even argued that the present Oonis are from the line of the chief priest that Oduduwa left to be taking care of the shrines after all his children left Ife to found other kingdoms.

Even if we agree that Oranmiyan was Yoruba, that still put Oba of Benin, his most senior son as the most senior Yoruba Obas.

So you have in terms of seniority, from Oranmiyan children. Let me see how they argue this.

1. Oba of Benin
2. Alaafin of Oyo
3. Ooni of Ife.

No matter how they spin it, the Alaafin will always be below the Oba of Benin in heirarchy.

Like to see what the Oyo guys around here think about this. The Oyo guys seats back and allow other Yorubas tribes without history to be arguing their history.

gregyboy:


400c that 500yrs


Sarah20A

Warning!!! The comment below contains academic reference, logic, and common-sense: Brace yourself.

From the same article you attached:

(1) Ryder only said in "records" --- He never said anywhere that there was no connection.

(2) He clarified that there is a well known-connection.
He anticipated cogent objections to his own conclusion that the Ogane's kingdom is "probably" in the Niger-Benue confluence. He wrote:
"Many objections may be raised against such an argument, the most cogent being those which demonstrate the well-known links between Benin and Ife."
Reference:
Ryder, (1965), p.35.

(3) Most importantly, his conclusion that no written record existed follows from the following:

(a) João Afonso d'Aveiros documented in c.1480
about the connection between Benin Kingdom and the Kingdom of the Ogane.

(b) Ryder believed (although probabilistically) that the Kingdom of this Oghene is in the Niger-Benue confluence --- not in Ife.

(c) Hence, he concludes that there was no record of Benin's connection with Ife.

(4) But since it has been demonstrated overwhelmingly by historians (in modern times) that the Ogane of d'Aveiro's c.1480 account, is none other than the Ooni of Ife (see attached); then it becomes clear that Ryders' conclusion of no records of connection is blatantly erroneous.


In conclusion, not only is there evidence of early connection even from the source you've put forward; there is in fact evidence of early record of connection as seen in d'Aveiros' c.1480 account.

Keep trying. Don't give up just yet.

Cheers!

samuk:


[s]I can't believe that the Yorubas are so dull not to know the implication of what we are trying to save them from.

By forcefully writing themselves into Benin history, it gives seniority to the Oba of Benin over all Yoruba Obas. So much for their sophistication and cleverness.

This implication was not lost on the source you quoted because he even alluded to it.

Most scholars and historians of Yoruba history agree that Oranmiyan came to Benin and had his first child who became the Oba of Benin, he then went to Oyo to have his second child,the Alafin of Oyo and returned to rule Ife where he possibly had other children who carried on as Ooni.

The reason for the seniority tussle between the old Ooni and Alaafin.

Alaafin being the second son to Oranmiyan cant be junior to Oranmiyan later children who took over in Ife.

Some even argued that the present Ooni is from the line of the chief priests that Oduduwa left to be taking care of the shrines after all his children left Ife to found other kingdoms.

Even if we agree that Oranmiyan was Yoruba, that still put Oba of Benin, his most senior son as the most senior Yoruba Obas.

So you have in terms of seniority, from Oranmiyan children. Let me see how they argue this.

1. Oba of Benin
2. Alaafin of Oyo
3. Ooni of Ife.


No matter how they spin it, the Alaafin will always be below the Oba of Benin in heirarchy.
Like to see what the Oyo guys around here think about this. The Oyo guys seats back and allow other Yorubas tribes without history to be arguing their history.[/s]

You can attempt to "save" all you want. But when it comes to trying to save people with lies and pained distortions, then you need to look inwards and drink some water.

I must reform all you Binis to be a better citizen who utters nothing but the truth. With me, you will leave Nairaland with your lying tongue cut off.

Regarding your dumb 180° rotation of ranking:

Oranmiyan installed his child as king over some forest people, but somehow his child's throne in the distant forest miraculously became superior to his own throne in Oyo.

I think I already dealt you too much blow that you have become confusion personified

Also in your warped and watery mind, Oranmiyan's children were the first Oonis of Ife. In other words, no Ooni in Ife before Oranmiyan was born.

Go and test for Covid-19 urgently, or have I caused you to hallucinate from the floggings?

In case you're confused from all the floggings of today. Sane people's ranking is as shown below:

(1) Ooni Ife (Ooduwa Atewonro) --- GrandFather.

(2) Alaafin Oyo (Oranmiyan Akinlogun) --- Gr.Son.

(3) Oba Ile-Ubinu (Eweka I) --- Gr.Son's son.

Anyways, thank God Oba Eweka II was not as stupid as you when he told Ward-Price the following in the 1920s when the latter visited him. See 2nd attachment for a clue of how he ranked.

And regarding the tussle between the reigning Alaafin and the the former Ooni --- It was merely a personal issue on the basis of political parties affiliation. It has nothing to do with monarchical superiority.

No Alaafin will ever utter it that his throne is superior to his own father's.

To make it quite clear to you, consider the picture below:

TAO11:


Warning!!! The comment below contains academic reference, logic, and common-sense: Brace yourself.

From the same article you attached:

(1) Ryder only said in "records" --- He never said anywhere that there was no connection.

(2) He clarified that there is a well known-connection.

He objected to his own conclusion that the Ogane's kingdom is "probably" in the Niger-Benue confluence. He wrote:

"Many objections may be raised against such an argument, the most cogent being those which demonstrate the well-known links between Between Benin and Ife."
Reference:
Ryder, (1965), p.35.

(3) Most importantly, his conclusion that no written record existed follows from the following:

(a) João Afonso d'Aveiros documented in c.1480
about the connection between Benin Kingdom and the Kingdom of the Ogane.

(b) He himself believed (although probabilistically) that the Kingdom of this Oghene is in the Niger-Benue confluence --- not in Ife.

(c) Hence, he concludes that there was no record of Benin's connection with Ife.

(4) But since it has been demonstrated overwhelmingly by historians (in modern times) that the Ogane of d'Aveiro's c.1480 account, is none other than the Ooni of Ife (see attached); then it becomes clear that Ryders conclusion of no records of connection is blatantly erroneous.


In conclusion, not only is there evidence of early connection even from the source you've put forward; there is in fact evidence of early record of connection as seen in d'Aveiros' c.1480 account.

Keep trying. Don't give up just yet.

Cheers!

All this your posts still doesn’t answer the origin of Oduduwa.. He is not a Yoruba man but a foreigner who came and conquered and ruled your ancestors.

A question for u, how come all these writers u have been referencing never saw Ife? Many of them visited and explored these parts. They visited at a time when Benin was at the height of its power, they also explored other tribes even up to Oyo. But yet they never saw Ife.. they always claimed they heard of a certain place whose name and ruler they are not even sure of.

If Ife was a great Kingdom or empire as you claim why didn’t they ever visit it. How come they aren’t even sure of the correct name of Ife or Ooni who u claim to be the greatest empire and ruler at that time.

It is a known fact that visitors or explorers will always visit the greatest Kingdom and ruler of territories they explore..
all the early Europeans and writers you have quoted never saw Ife during their sojourn in West Africa.. They all claim they heard of a certain place because that is what Ife was.. A certain place that is a no place..

TAO11:


You can attempt to "save" all you want. But when it comes to trying to save people with lies and pained distortions, then you need to look inwards and drink some water.

I must reform all you Binis to be a better citizen who utters nothing but the truth. With me, you will leave Nairaland with your lying tongue cut off.

Regarding your dumb 180° rotation of ranking:

Oranmiyan installed his child as king over some forest people, but somehow his child's throne in the distant forest miraculously became superior to his own throne in Oyo.

I think I already dealt you too much blow that you have become confusion personified

Also in your warped and watery mind, Oranmiyan's children were the first Oonis of Ife. In other words, no Ooni in Ife before Oranmiyan was born.

Go and test for Covid-19 urgently, or have I caused you to hallucinate from the floggings?

In case you're confused from all the floggings of today. Sane people's ranking is as shown below:

(1) Ooni Ife (Ooduwa Atewonro) --- GrandFather.

(2) Alaafin Oyo (Oranmiyan Akinlogun) --- Gr.Son.

(3) Oba Ile-Ubinu (Eweka I) --- Gr.Son's son.

Anyways, thank God Oba Eweka II was not as stupid as you when he told Ward-Price the following in the 1920s when the latter visited him. See 2nd attachment for a clue of how he ranked.

And regarding the tussle between the reigning Alaafin and the the former Ooni --- It was merely a personal issue on the basis of political parties affiliation. It has nothing to do with monarchical superiority.

No Alaafin will ever utter it that his throne is superior to his own father's.

To make it quite clear to you, consider the picture below:

I am disappointed in you, you are usually smarter than this.

Where did I argue that Oranmiyan was the first Ooni of Ife?

I argued from when Oranmiyan became Ooni, I didn't say anything about any Ooni before Oranmiyan.

The questions are very simple and your Yoruba historians agree with my answers.

1. Was Oranmiyan ever Ooni of Ife (Yes)
2. Which of the current Oba was his first child? (Oba of Benin)
3. Did Oranmiyan left Benin to found Oyo (Yes)
4. Who amongst current Obas was Oranmiyan second child. (Alaafin of Oyo)
5. Did Oranmiyan left Oyo and returned back to Ife (Yes)
6. Has there ever been seniority contests between the Alaafin and Ooni (Yes)
7. Is the Oba of Benin the senior brother to Alaafin (Yes)

Which of my answers is wrong and please back your argument up with your usual evidence. Don't try to swear your way out of it.