Trueigbo:
Man was created to live forever but sin came to destroy that plan but Christ came and restore man to his original glory

Lostz:
I think man was meant to live forever. The eternity in his heart confirm that.


The Earth would have taken care of itself

Sheikwonder:


OK....did you read my post to comprehend the contradiction I explained? If man was created to live forever why then was there a tree of life in the garden? Also, how would earth have coped with catering to the needs of billions upon billions of people who wouldn't die?

Sheikwonder:


This isn't really an answer. "The earth would have taken care of itself"? How Would it expand beyond it's current size? Also you didn't explain the contradiction. If man was created to live forever why then was there a tree of life in the garden?

Trueigbo:


Yes I get your point but the billions of people on Earth is left for God to handle

Lostz:
nature always have a way of taking care of itself.
We didn't built the Earth and we only know a little about the way it works

The tree of life was man's opportunity to choose whether to live or die

Sheikwonder:


I'm sorry to say this but there's little sense in your answer. You're saying that the tree of life was man's opportunity to choose whether to live or die. Had Adam obeyed God's instruction and not eaten the forbidden fruit then he wouldn't have a "choice" on whether to live or die, he'd simply live forever. Which still begs the question: what then was the point of the tree of life?

Lostz:

Genesis 2;17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


The choice is clear; eat the fruit and die.

It is clear Adam did not value living forever.... choosing death.
God has also given us another chance to live but sadly we are still imitating Adam

Sheikwonder:


OK. So let's back up.

So you're saying God gave man a choice between life and death. Eat the tree of good and evil, you will surely die. Don't eat, you live forever. But that still doesn't explain the purpose of the tree of life. It also brings to fore the problem of freewill and God's omniscience. Look at it like this, God already knew from the beginning the outcome when he decided to create the trees of good and evil and the tree of life. He knew from the beginning what Adam would go for. In that regard, Adam wasn't presented with any choice but rather an "illusion of choice". Which still makes it all the more pointless to have a tree of life in the garden. A tree which he would either never eat from or which would have been useless anyway if he had the opportunity to eat from it as he would have had eternal life already. In any case it brings us back to square one.

Lostz:
the Bible did not made it clear whether God know or did not know.
The point is, he did not want humans zombie.
He created them, gave them the right to choose what is best for them.

Sheikwonder:


The Bible did not make it clear? Are you insinuating that at some point God wasn't omniscient? Because if that's what you're saying then that is a whole new topic of discussion. Because an all-knowing God knows the end from the beginning and Christians champion God's omniscience as one of his immutable qualities.

Your point about not making humans zombies becomes useless because he didn't give them a choice, he only gave them an illusion of that. It's like you creating something that you know is destined for destruction but telling that something that if you do X you'll live, if you do Y you'll die. That's just a silly thing to do when you already know in the end that it would be destroyed.

Lostz:
let us end it here.

I think you are just repeating same thing

Sheikwonder:
Hi everyone,

It's been quite a long time since I posted stuff here. Anyway while doing some chores today a thought crossed my mind and I will share it here. I'm open to debate from religious and irreligious folks alike. Here we go:

If you're a Christian, you're probably familiar with some of the fantastic stories in Genesis such as the Tower of Babel, The Great Deluge, The Talking Serpent, and so on. I will however limit the scope of this thread to one particular story and it revolves around events that took place in the Garden of Eden.

The Bible tells us that death came to the world through sin. Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. What we can extrapolate from this therefore is that if Adam and Eve had not fallen, man would probably have lived forever. Yet this raises questions as well as contradictions which I'll explain below.

The first obvious challenge is that if man lives forever there would be the issue of overpopulation to deal with. According to some estimates, the total number of humans who have ever lived on earth is in excess of 110 billion! So imagine a world today with at least 110 billion people in it who simply would not die. The earth doesn't have the resources to cater for that staggering number.

Let's move on to another issue. After they had sinned and just before they got banished from the garden, Genesis 3:22 tells us something interesting:

"Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

The above verse presents a contradiction. On the one hand we're made to believe from the Bible that death only came about through sin, hence no sin, no death and man lives forever. But in the verse above it appears that man was never designed to live forever anyway. Which was why God banished man from the garden so that he won't eat of the tree of life. So I'm a little confused. Was man created to live forever initially? If yes, what then was the point of having the tree of life? If no, and man was meant to die, why blame man for sinning when he was always going to die anyway, whether he sinned or not?


I hope I've made my case clear. Anyone who can shed light on this is appreciated. Thank you.

Sheikwonder:


OK....did you read my post to comprehend the contradiction I explained? If man was created to live forever why then was there a tree of life in the garden? Also, how would earth have coped with catering to the needs of billions upon billions of people who wouldn't die?

Sheikwonder:


OK. So let's back up.

So you're saying God gave man a choice between life and death. Eat the tree of good and evil, you will surely die. Don't eat, you live forever. But that still doesn't explain the purpose of the tree of life. It also brings to fore the problem of freewill and God's omniscience. Look at it like this, God already knew from the beginning the outcome when he decided to create the trees of good and evil and the tree of life. He knew from the beginning what Adam would go for. In that regard, Adam wasn't presented with any choice but rather an "illusion of choice". Which still makes it all the more pointless to have a tree of life in the garden. A tree which he would either never eat from or which would have been useless anyway if he had the opportunity to eat from it as he would have had eternal life already. In any case it brings us back to square one.

Jozzy4:


he who says Be fruitful and Multiply can definitely discontinue the process once the capacity of fruit is achieved .

besides, We dont know if other planets are projects to accommodate more humans

so this aspect in my view Is not standard enough


No contradiction sir , after they sinned ... eating the tree of life would automatically Made them EVADE the consequence of their actions , if that happens Satan will be right and God a liar. didn't Satan say they won't die ?

Jozzy4:


he who says Be fruitful and Multiply can definitely discontinue the process once the capacity of fruit is achieved .

besides, We dont know if other planets are projects to accommodate more humans

so this aspect in my view Is not standard enough


No contradiction sir , after they sinned ... eating the tree of life would automatically Made them EVADE the consequence of their actions , if that happens Satan will be right and God a liar. didn't Satan say they won't die ?

Jozzy4:


tree of life signify immortality ... one can live forever and yet not immortal. for example angels has been existing for billion of years but they are not immortal. immortal means can't die. but someone living forever still have his existence dependence on his obedience to a superior being .

Jozzy4:


your assumption that God know Adam will sin is unfounded in scripture . Yes God has power to foreknow BUT HE doesn't exercise such powers in matters of freewill . I can cite numerous examples in the bible . but take this one Jeremiah 26:2,3 after asking Jeremiah to go preach for the people , he said " PERHAPS /MAYBE " they will listen. does that ring a bell ? u dont use perhaps when u already predict the outcome.



so there wasn't an illusion of choice

Lamentations 3:33 explains it well " For it is not in his Heart to Afflict or Grieve the sons of men [humans ] "

its not his in heart to scam anyone. He gave them freewill and they exercise their own choices.

Sheikwonder:
Hi everyone,

It's been quite a long time since I posted stuff here. Anyway while doing some chores today a thought crossed my mind and I will share it here. I'm open to debate from religious and irreligious folks alike. Here we go:

If you're a Christian, you're probably familiar with some of the fantastic stories in Genesis such as the Tower of Babel, The Great Deluge, The Talking Serpent, and so on. I will however limit the scope of this thread to one particular story and it revolves around events that took place in the Garden of Eden.

The Bible tells us that death came to the world through sin. Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. What we can extrapolate from this therefore is that if Adam and Eve had not fallen, man would probably have lived forever. Yet this raises questions as well as contradictions which I'll explain below.

The first obvious challenge is that if man lives forever there would be the issue of overpopulation to deal with. According to some estimates, the total number of humans who have ever lived on earth is in excess of 110 billion! So imagine a world today with at least 110 billion people in it who simply would not die. The earth doesn't have the resources to cater for that staggering number.

Let's move on to another issue. After they had sinned and just before they got banished from the garden, Genesis 3:22 tells us something interesting:

"Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

The above verse presents a contradiction. On the one hand we're made to believe from the Bible that death only came about through sin, hence no sin, no death and man lives forever. But in the verse above it appears that man was never designed to live forever anyway. Which was why God banished man from the garden so that he won't eat of the tree of life. So I'm a little confused. Was man created to live forever initially? If yes, what then was the point of having the tree of life? If no, and man was meant to die, why blame man for sinning when he was always going to die anyway, whether he sinned or not?


I hope I've made my case clear. Anyone who can shed light on this is appreciated. Thank you.

Sheikwonder:
Hi everyone,

It's been quite a long time since I posted stuff here. Anyway while doing some chores today a thought crossed my mind and I will share it here. I'm open to debate from religious and irreligious folks alike. Here we go:

If you're a Christian, you're probably familiar with some of the fantastic stories in Genesis such as the Tower of Babel, The Great Deluge, The Talking Serpent, and so on. I will however limit the scope of this thread to one particular story and it revolves around events that took place in the Garden of Eden.

The Bible tells us that death came to the world through sin. Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. What we can extrapolate from this therefore is that if Adam and Eve had not fallen, man would probably have lived forever. Yet this raises questions as well as contradictions which I'll explain below.

The first obvious challenge is that if man lives forever there would be the issue of overpopulation to deal with. According to some estimates, the total number of humans who have ever lived on earth is in excess of 110 billion! So imagine a world today with at least 110 billion people in it who simply would not die. The earth doesn't have the resources to cater for that staggering number.

Let's move on to another issue. After they had sinned and just before they got banished from the garden, Genesis 3:22 tells us something interesting:

"Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

The above verse presents a contradiction. On the one hand we're made to believe from the Bible that death only came about through sin, hence no sin, no death and man lives forever. But in the verse above it appears that man was never designed to live forever anyway. Which was why God banished man from the garden so that he won't eat of the tree of life. So I'm a little confused. Was man created to live forever initially? If yes, what then was the point of having the tree of life? If no, and man was meant to die, why blame man for sinning when he was always going to die anyway, whether he sinned or not?


I hope I've made my case clear. Anyone who can shed light on this is appreciated. Thank you.

Sheikwonder:



So God didn't know Adam would sin? So he's not all knowing then? Whose view now is unfounded in scripture, yours or mine? Free will is an illusion. The case of Judas comes very much to mind. Someone had to betray Jesus "for scripture to be fulfilled". Like you already said, God is not a liar and since it had already been said it must happen. So tell me the free will anyone destined to betray Jesus has?






Free will is an illusion.

Sheikwonder:


Again another fallacious response. Do angels die? Those ones that "rebelled" against God and disobeyed him, did they die? They were banished. Even Revelations says that Satan and his hosts are banished to the bottomless abyss. So stop being superfluous and saying living forever isn't the same as being immortal. According to the Bible, spirits do not die. Angels are spirits, they do not die.

MJBOLT:

i wonder how christians will explain this one

CAPSLOCKED:


THEY'RE ALREADY EXPLAINING IT AS USUAL. "YOU CAN'T QUESTION GOD" AND "MYSTERIOUS WAYS".

PhantomXcess:
Wow! Great reasoning! This is how you uncover mysteries and receive revelations!


Anyways, i'll start by helping you fix this part (as that is the reason why you're seeing this contradiction)

What we can extrapolate from this therefore is that if Adam and Eve had not fallen, man would probably have lived forever.

Man would have not lived forever if they they had not fallen. "Man would need to eat the tree of life to live forever!" Mind you, the word "tree" was used loosely all over the bible(but that's another subject).

So, yea, when God made man, he didn't say they would live forever, he said they would function like us and look like us. But, as God wanted man to live forever, he instructed him to eat of every tree in the garden(including the tree of life), except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which brings death. If man obeyed, they obviously would have lived, but to live forever, they'd have to eat from the tree of life which would have been inevitable as Adam was ready to do what God instructed. There is an in-popular theological notion that God would have finally allowed them to eat the forbidden fruit after they had eaten the tree of life.

That said, it is important to note that the Tree of life is God's word. And we see apostle John break it down for us in his first chapter of his gospel by showing us that Jesus is the word of God made flesh. This is why believing in him puts one in a legal right to eternal life. Jesus also expressed this during his temptation in the wilderness where he told the devil what Adam and Eve should have told the serpent; he said "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of God's mouth." This expression was originally said by Moses to Israel, but the significance of it, is that it shows us that man was made to live (both spiritually and physically) by accepting and believing God's word to be final.

To address the issue of overpopulation, it is important to note that the evidence of other galaxies and planets show that God didn't only create this earth. And as a matter of revelation, the word "earth" here meant "matter"(physics). I sincerely believe that we are behind schedule in human development and evolution, that's why we are worried about overpopulation and all other things you frequently hear about. This is largely because of individual and corporate greed. There are so many inventions that can improve lives drastically but are usually shut down if they can't be monetized or if they will de-monitize existing inventions and solutions. But that's another subject too.

To summarize:

The type of man and life God wanted us to live was manifested in and by Jesus on earth. A life in which you are in absolute control over all circumstances and situations("subdue the earth, have dominion over all things created" Gen 1:28). And regarding life and death, Jesus said "No one takes my life from me. I give it up willingly! I have the power to give it up and the power to receive it back again, just as my Father commanded me to do." (John10:18 CEV).

The word of God(not the bible, but the spirit inspired statements and instructions in it and the words spoken to you by the Holy Spirit in you), when you receive it and act on it, you'd always receive the result of what it talks about. For instance: When God said, "life and death are in the tongue", you don't argue this, you act on it by speaking which you desire, either life or death.

God has shown that his plan is to be our Father. This means that we get to enjoy the privileges of being his sons(sons here doesn't mean gender, but position and identity). Jesus showed us how sons of God live their lives. He is the example that we follow, so we read about his life and exploits and apply it accordingly to our own lives. This is why people who are doing this are called Christians(Christ-Like) because he was the first begotten son, the first to do it.

I pray that the Father God grant you more understanding of his word as you uncover his truth and light! Bless up!