samuk:


If that is what you believe, then go and tell TAO11 on the other thread instead of running away like a coward.

Besides I don't know what political strength you are referring to.

Did you see any of the Benin being ask to shut up and leave the thread by their fellow Benin people.

The problem with you guys is you lack the confidence to stand on your own argument without calling for help from your tribes people.

It's not a competition for you to win a medal or price.

Immediately TAO11 disagrees with what you have written here, you will quickly change and say you were only joking like before.

Moreover, stop tagging me to someone else's contrary view.

That I agreed with someone on some topic does not mean I will never have contrary opinions ever with them.

No, we Yorubas are not like that. It is only in Benin that you're loyal to a view you disagree with, just to save-face

Grow up and face me if you can. Stop making someone elses contrary views as your personal authority.

Grow up!!!

samuk:


If that is what you believe, then go and tell TAO11 on the other thread instead of running away like a coward.

Besides I don't know what political strength you are referring to.

Did you see any of the Benin being ask to shut up and leave the thread by their fellow Benin people.

The problem with you guys is you lack the confidence to stand on your own argument without calling for help from your tribes people.

It's not a competition for you to win a medal or price.

Immediately TAO11 disagrees with what you have written here, you will quickly change and say you were only joking like before.

You still have not responded to what deBarros said.

Benin does not breathe unless a superior king to the East say so.

Who is this all-mighty king and where in the East?

MetaPhysical:



You still have not responded to what deBarros said.

Benin does not breathe unless a superior king to the East say so.


Who is this all-mighty king and where in the East?

We are still looking for your east and this might interest you.

The only thing that matters to us, the Benin, unlike the Yorubas, is the truth, irrespective to where it leads and no fabrication will be entertained.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract
The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife. Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition. Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties. It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations. The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.

samuk:


We are still looking for your east and this might interest you.

The only thing that matters to us is the truth and no fabrication will be entertained.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract

1 - The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife.

2 - Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition.

3 - Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties.

4 - It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations.

5 - The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.

I have rearranged the above and itemized to give a direct relation in my responses.


1. The tradition is in Edo. Edo says the origin of their King is Ife. In addition, their brass civilization originated from Ife as well.

2. What European explorers reported when they visited Edo differs from what Edo practices.

If you look at these two you should see the contradiction and not be comfortable sharing it here. You should have a problem with European visitors giving false report about your ancestors and dismissing their traditions.

Do you not see it? Is it acceptable to you that Europeans pretty much said they know better than your ancestors on what their tradition should be? Thats a mindset of a conqueror.


3. European visitors examined your brass and dug up some artefacts. What they found did not agree with account and practices in Edo.

Were your ancestors lying to the visitors....or were the visitors pre-occupied in connecting your artefacts to River Niger by fire by force?

In that age Ryder wrote about, Europeans had a penchant for connecting seats of dynastic power with a body of water. In Europe dynasty and water were interlinked. Water was a common item in the origin story of civilizations.

These visitors met a REFORMED Benin and when asked about their origin they claimed Ife, instead of Niger Benue. These people have lost their senses....don't worry we will rewrite their origin and place it in Niger-Benue.

4. The way they concocted a new history for you is by assuming that you came from somewhere else in complete disregard to the tradition of your ancestors. This is what they meant by "hypothesis".

They reduced your custom to fantasies! They reconstructed the traditions of your ancestors....and you proudly shared this with me with gleeful joy and celebration.

I dont know about you dude.


5. They are not sure about the Ypruba States but to them its origin should equally have a water myth to it. They were not so committed to that but did not want to reveal their ignorance and lack of professionalism in field study and so just left that open.

Now, if you look at Acholonu's work, which I made available in this thread in my quest for the East, you will see why this thread was a deliberate mockery of your Benin superiority and deBarros error that your authority is obtained in East. TAO11 already revealed this to you.

Do you not see a connection in the Niger-Benue origin of Idu as told by Acholonu....and the Niger-Benue reconstruction of Ryder many centuries before?

Acholonu is retelling and re-living the hypothesis of European visitors that reconstructed your origin.

This reconstruction is what continues till today to confuse you and make you denounce Ife, the custom and traditions your ancestors practiced.

MetaPhysical:


I have rearranged the above and itemized to give a direct relation in my responses.


1. The tradition is in Edo. Edo says the origin of their King is Ife. In addition, their brass civilization originated from Ife as well.

2. What European explorers reported when they visited Edo differs from what Edo practices.

If you look at these two you should see the contradiction and not be comfortable sharing it here. You should have a problem with European visitors giving false report about your ancestors and dismissing their traditions.

Do you not see it? Is it acceptable to you that Europeans pretty much said they know better than your ancestors on what their tradition should be? Thats a mindset of a conqueror.


3. European visitors examined your brass and dug up some artefacts. What they found did not agree with account and practices in Edo.

Were your ancestors lying to the visitors....or were the visitors pre-occupied in connecting your artefacts to River Niger by fire by force?

In that age Ryder wrote about, Europeans had a penchant for connecting seats of dynastic power with a body of water. In Europe dynasty and water were interlinked. Water was a common item in the origin story of civilizations.

These visitors met a REFORMED Benin and when asked about their origin they claimed Ife, instead of Niger Benue. These people have lost their senses....don't worry we will rewrite their origin and place it in Niger-Benue.

4. The way they concocted a new history for you is by assuming that you came from somewhere else in complete disregard to the tradition of your ancestors. This is what they meant by "hypothesis".

They reduced your custom to fantasies! They reconstructed the traditions of your ancestors....and you proudly shared this with me with gleeful joy and celebration.

I dont know about you dude.


5. They are not sure about the Ypruba States but to them its origin should equally have a water myth to it. They were not so committed to that but did not want to reveal their ignorance and lack of professionalism in field study and so just left that open.

Now, if you look at Acholonu's work, which I made available in this thread in my quest for the East, you will see why this thread was a deliberate mockery of your Benin superiority and deBarros error that your authority is obtained in East. TAO11 already revealed this to you.

Do you not see a connection in the Niger-Benue origin of Idu as told by Acholonu....and the Niger-Benue reconstruction of Ryder many centuries before?

Acholonu is retelling and re-living the hypothesis of European visitors that reconstructed your origin.

This reconstruction is what continues till today to confuse you and make you denounce Ife, the custom and traditions your ancestors practiced.

It's very important that you get one thing straight about the average Benin person when it comes to their history, it's only the truth that matters.

History to us is not about tribal supremacy, if you view us from this angle, you will miss the point.

We don't care where the truth lead us to, in as far as it's the truth.

Some people just can't wake up one day and begin to write about Benin/Ife relationship when there are no evidence to back it up, no recorded history or oral history for over 500 years to back it up.

If the Yorubas had said Oranmiyan was from Owo, Ekiti or Akure, it would have made more sense because we had both oral and documented history with those palaces.

What we will not accept is to be lumped into some union with fabricated history.

The European are not trying to rewrite our history, it's just that, there are no evidence to support Benin/Ife relationship.

You know that the Orun Oba Ado is a fraud.

The messagers represented by the Benin artwork the Yorubas claim was from Ife bears no resemblance to an Ife person but Nupe/Igala.

Samuk,
Please focus on my last response and tell me why what Ryder said, and you shared here is of importance to Benin.

Again, if you compare it with what Acholonu said, there is a match.

Ryder's account is centuries ahead of Acholonu.

She also referenced a publication called Great Benin Classics where this origin of Niger-Benue is again documented.

This thread was a trap for you. TAO told you that much earlier.

I dont like it when you say you dont want competition for supremacy.

Yoruba will be sitting jeje, we no bother you. You Edos will start opening threads left and right trying to form king-kong. Then we you are cornered you start wishing we would be back off.

We have in past backed off. Not this time. You have to commit never to raise anymore issue on Yoruba/Benin relationship.

samuk:


We are still looking for your east and this might interest you.

The only thing that matters to us, the Benin, unlike the Yorubas, is the truth, irrespective to where it leads and no fabrication will be entertained.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract
The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife. Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition. Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties. It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations. The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.

Shut up!!

Ryder (1965) admitted that his own conclusion was probabilistic.

And he anticipated attacks against it from scholars, noting that the most cogent of those attacks is the well established connection between Ife and Benin.

Carry your revision and crawl back into your creepy hole in reverse mode.


Moreover, scholars have in present time come to identify the Ogane of d'Aveiros account as no other than the Ooni of Ife.




African Proverb:
--------------------------
The Benin Nairalander who thinks he is an expert at lying should not forget that TAO11 still have an active account.

I forgot to mention also.

Since you keep harping Nupe/Igala.

Igala attach itself as a proto-Yoruba language and culture. This is corfirmable and has been repeated many times by their Attah.

Nupe is from Igala.

So whichever you take your origin ...you are still inferior to Yoruba.

TAO11:


Shut up!!

Ryder (1965) admitted that his own conclusion was probabilistic.

And he anticipated attacks against it from scholars, noting that the most cogent of those attacks is the well established connection between Ife and Benin.

Carry your revision and crawl back into your creepy hole in reverse mode.


Moreover, scholars have in present time come to identify the Ogane of d'Aveiros account as no other than the Ooni of Ife.




African Proverb:
--------------------------
The Benin Nairalander who thinks he is an expert at lying should not forget that TAO11 still have an active account.

MetaPhysical:
I forgot to mention also.

Since you keep harping Nupe/Igala.

Igala attach itself as a proto-Yoruba language and culture. This is corfirmable and has been repeated many times by their Attah.

Nupe is from Igala.

So whichever you take your origin ...you are still inferior to Yoruba.

You are not getting it, we are not looking for who is superior.

This is not supremacy contest for us. We are only in search of of the truth and there is no evidence or the evidence available to back up Benin/Ife relationship is very weak at this point in time.

You are trying so had to destract by keep on saying you are superior.

I don't really know how or when you became superior or was it when you were importing guns from Benin to be killing yourselves.

Please don't tell me about Ooni who your must trusted historian, Johnson recorded as being a descendant of shrine keeper.

Don't tell me about Alaafin who once begged the Oba of Benin to save him from other Yoruba tribes.

I don't know of your other achievements and accomplishments that is greater than the great wall of Benin, four times the great wall of China and many times the size of the great pyramids of Egypt, what really makes you guys think you are superior, is it because your said it.

You guys like to make claims you can't back up with credible evidence.

Benin is not interested in fabricated evidence.

Benin/Ife is a fabrication. Benin had no relationship with Ife till after 1824.

samuk:


You are not getting it, we are not looking for who is superior.

This is not supremacy contest for us. We are only in search of of the truth and there is no evidence or the evidence available to back up Benin/Ife relationship is very weak at this point in time.

You are trying so had to destract by keep on saying you are superior.

I don't really know how or when you became superior or was it when you were importing guns from Benin to be killing yourselves.

Please don't tell me about Ooni who your must trusted historian, Johnson recorded as being a descendant of shrine keeper.

Don't tell me about Alaafin who once begged the Oba of Benin to save him from other Yoruba tribes.

I don't know of your other achievements and accomplishments that is greater than the great wall of Benin, four times the great wall of China and many times the size of the great pyramids of Egypt, what really makes you guys think you are superior, is it because your said it.

You guys like to make claims you can't back up with credible evidence.

Benin is not interested in fabricated evidence.

Benin/Ife is a fabrication. Benin had no relationship with Ife till after 1824.

Im going to build a chronology for you.

1 - Oruh is a forest land, in it lived a disorganized and uncivilized people.

2 - Ife sent a corps of city-builders to put in order and civilization.

3 - The builders established a new order called Igodomigodo.

4 - Ife sent ruler called Ogiso to oversee the new state and sustain order.

5 - At a point in time disorder returned to the civilized city. Enmity and conflicts erupted and threatened the civilization.

6 - Ogiso council sent request to Ife to ask for intervention.

7 - Ife dispatched nd gave AUTHORITY to Oranmiyan to enter Igodomigodo and reform it.

8 - Oranmiyan went with a new set of Chiefs.

9 - Oranmiyan established a new order and called it Benin and ruled in Benin.

10 - Oranmiyan had a child in Benin. He returned to Ife, leaving his child and Chiefs behind in Benin to exercise his AUTHORITY.

11 - His child was crowned OMO N'OBA N'EDO.

12 - The lineage of Oranmiyan continues till today to exercise AUTHORITY of the reformer in Edo.

Omo n'Oba n'Edo!


Argue with this chronology.

MetaPhysical:


Im going to build a chronology for you.

1 - Oruh is a forest land, in it lived a disorganized and uncivilized people.

2 - Ife sent a corps of city-builders to put in order and civilization.

3 - The builders established a new order called Igodomigodo.

4 - Ife sent ruler called Ogiso to oversee the new state and sustain order.

5 - At a point in time disorder returned to the civilized city. Enmity and conflicts erupted and threatened the civilization.

6 - Ogiso council sent request to Ife to ask for intervention.

7 - Ife dispatched nd gave AUTHORITY to Oranmiyan to enter Igodomigodo and reform it.

8 - Oranmiyan went with a new set of Chiefs.

9 - Oranmiyan established a new order and called it Benin and ruled in Benin.

10 - Oranmiyan had a child in Benin. He returned to Ife, leaving his child and Chiefs behind in Benin to exercise his AUTHORITY.

11 - His child was crowned OMO N'OBA N'EDO.

12 - The lineage of Oranmiyan continues till today to exercise AUTHORITY of the reformer in Edo.

Omo n'Oba n'Edo!


Argue with this chronology.

All these happened and when the Portuguese arrived Benin over 500 years ago and ask questions, Benin didn't remember to tell them Ife, Oranmiyan or Oduduwa but they said Oghene in the east.

Guy, wake up, Ife is not east of Benin and Oghene is not Oduduwa.

Stop wasting your time. We are now all doing our research and looking towards the east of Benin. Ife is not there.

No matter how many times a lie is told, it remains a lie.

We have already woken up from the lies and forging ahead in our research.

You guys can continue to wallow in your lies, Oyo and Ife doesn't even agree on the identity of Oduduwa.

Benin/Ife history is a fabrication.

samuk:


All these happened and when the Portuguese arrived Benin over 500 years ago and ask questions, Benin didn't remember to tell them Ife, Oranmiyan or Oduduwa but they said Oghene in the east.

Guy, wake up, Ife is not east of Benin and Oghene is not Oduduwa.

Stop wasting your time. We are now all doing our research and looking towards the east of Benin. Ife is not there.

No matter how many times a lie is told, it remains a lie.

We have already woken up from the lies and forging ahead in our research.

You guys can continue to wallow in your lies, Oyo and Ife doesn't even agree on the identity of Oduduwa.

Benin/Ife history is a fabrication.

You have written on everything else except the Eastern ogene that is your superior.

Im still waiting on his identity and location.

MetaPhysical:


You have written on everything else except the Eastern ogene that is your superior.

Im still waiting on his identity and location.

Don't be in a hurry, let's get the Ife lies out of the way first.

samuk:


Don't be in a hurry, let's get the Ife lies out of the way first.

Go to other thread for your quest.

This thread is strictly to locate your master in East.

Your portuguese partner said your Oba told him he has a superiorin East.

Who is the superior and where in East........is it Eri?

MetaPhysical:


Go to other thread for your quest.

This thread is strictly to locate your master in East.

Your portuguese partner said your Oba told him he has a superiorin East.

Who is the superior and where in East........is it Eri?

Please let us know if you find it through sound research, we don't care wherever it is. But we know now it's not Ife. The search continues.

If you have any evidence pointing to Eri, share it let's examine it.

samuk:


Please let us know if you find it through sound research, we don't care wherever it is. But we know now it's not Ife. The search continues.

If you have any evidence pointing to Eri, share it let's examine it.

The constant thing here is that the Binis have been running from pillar to post, but as slaves whose kings are slaves of a certain Ogane.

From slaves of Igala

To slaves of Nupe

or to slaves of Igbos.

All in a bid to delude themselves as no slaves to their actual ancestral slavemaster --- the Yorubas.

Your Obas are doormats to the Ogane or Oghene n'uhe ---- the Ooni of Ife.

TAO11:


The constant thing here is that the Binis have been running from pillar to post, but as slaves whose kings are slaves of a certain organ.

From slaves of Igala

To slaves of Nupe

or to slaves of Igala.

All in a bid to delude themselves as no slaves to their actual slavemaster --- the Yorubas.

Your Obas are doormats to the Ogane or Oghene n'uhe ---- the Ooni of Ife.

Hahahahahaha...

They will soon be slaves of Igbo....slaves of Ijaw.

Anything to remove their enslavement under Yoruba. They have zero shame.

MetaPhysical:


Hahahahahaha...

They will soon be slaves of Igbo....slaves of Ijaw.

Anything to remove their enslavement under Yoruba. They have zero shame.

Why exactly would you have problems with this, why would you want to take paracetamol for the headache of others.

samuk:


Why exactly would you have problems with this, why would you want to take paracetamol for the headache of others.

Slaves of Igbos



MetaPhysical stoooooppeeeeeet!!!

East of Benin is Udo. And if you read the history of the town Udo she once competed with Benin seriously. The first moats built by Oba Oguola was to fend against attacks coming from Akpanigiankor of Udo. Oromiyan came to Benin through that route and he settled in Egor. So east of Benin is Udo and Udo is very ancient. It was from Udo that the Osemawe of Ondos came from after the war with Oba Esigie in the 15th century. Maybe I could be wrong but the east is definitely not Ife .


Can you Yoruba folks just leave Edo people alone. Must you write us into your story. Na wa oooo. Yes we were inferior and we had ondo and Ekiti states under us. Inferior and we had Lagos....abi


Abeg make una free us abeg

Daum:
East of Benin is Udo. And if you read the history of the town Udo she once competed with Benin seriously. The first moats built by Oba Oguola was to fend against attacks coming from Akpanigiankor of Udo. Oromiyan came to Benin through that route and he settled in Egor. So east of Benin is Udo and Udo is very ancient. It was from Udo that the Osemawe of Ondos came from after the war with Oba Esigie in the 15th century. Maybe I could be wrong but the east is definitely not Ife .


Can you Yoruba folks just leave Edo people alone. Must you write us into your story. Na wa oooo. Yes we were inferior and we had ondo and Ekiti states under us. Inferior and we had Lagos....abi


Abeg make una free us abeg

Errrrrm! Except that Udo is NOT EAST of Benin.

I have an idea. Let's see map below:

I come in peace with peace.

Cheers!

In contrast, I have demonstrated that the "east" described by the Portuguese document is Ife.

Check out my successive comments at this link:

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/5#88242922

TAO11:


Errrrrm! Except that Udo is NOT EAST of Benin.

I have an idea. Let's see map below:

I come in peace with peace.

Cheers!

In contrast, I have demonstrated that the "east" described by the Portuguese document is Ife.

Check out my successive comments at this link:

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/5#88242922

Thanks...well on the map it's true. But Ife isn't east either.

And no u don't come in peace. Have seen your comments elsewhere. We are forest savages.

Daum:



Thanks...well on the map it's true. But Ife isn't east either.

And no u don't come in peace. Have seen your comments elsewhere. We are forest savages.

Those who insult me, I won't give them roses in exchange.

I would obviously respond in kind.

And regarding whether or not Ife is the east described in the Portuguese document:

You read through the comments at the link first, then you will thank me later, or you will address the comment point by point.

For you still I come in peace.

Cheers

TAO11:


Slaves of Igbos



MetaPhysical stoooooppeeeeeet!!!

Take a little chill. Bini is slave to nobody and we Igbo are egalitarian. You don't have to keep mentioning Igbo. As you can see, Igbos are not interested in this your mud sling with Bini boys

IDENNAA:


Take a little chill. Bini is slave to nobody and we Igbo are egalitarian. You don't have to keep mentioning Igbo. As you can see, Igbos are not interested in this your mud sling with Bini boys

No I don't even believe that.

If you follow that thread you would have noticed that my reply was a reaponse of shock to someone who had implied that.

You are indeed Igbo.

samuk:


Now, the statement that every new Oba of Benin sort validation from this Ogane, have to be verified to be true, after that we have to sort out the inconsistency in the titles used, monarch and prince which was likened to their supreme pontiff.

Was this a shrine or some sort of Oracle that has to be notified of a new Oba like we still do in Benin.

Even your submission have rubbished the fabrication that dead oba of Benin were exhumed and taken to Ife to be reburied.

This is one of the primary evidence people like TAO11 and other Yorubas based their arguments of Benin/Ife connections.

We are now fairly sure that this Ogane if any was not the Ooni of Ife and not the Atta of Igala as you suggested.

In the absence of any strong evidence to back up another powerful king and kingdom in 15c and 16 centuries, my hunch is that your source was probably referring to an Oracle or a shrine somewhere in the old Benin kingdom which I already alluded to in another thread but until further research is done, I will not give you guys the opportunity to distract from the search of true history of old Benin.

Most of you guys are not here for true history but tribal supremacy, that's not history, history should be a search of the truth and shared heritage that should be celebrated.

Are you not curious that in the 400 years of European contact with Benin, they didn't find it curious or necessary to visit this almighty Ogane.

You have summed it up. That's the fact. It's the result of the worsened tribalism. The youth are far worse tribalists. You would have though NYSC, more exposure and travelling would. Since 1967, outbreak of Biafra War. Ultimately, it what endangers our collective co-existence. When you think you are a big tribe and you can beat chest and condescend on the culture and history of others out of hubris and spoiling for a fight, then it's waste of time.
Samuk, they claim is irrelevant, but they create thread upon thread about Benin. That shows only one thing: OBSESSION.

Not surprising because where else do you see a people whose morning salutation tells the history of family clan? Where tradition has been preserved undiluted despite been the first to encounter Christianity, where every nook and cranny of the Kingdom tells a story? Where history lives and breathes? Where a monarchy was revived with vigour despite the machinations of the British?

Benin is pretty unique.

AreaFada2:


You have summed it up. That's the fact. It's the result of the worsened tribalism. The youth are far worse tribalists. You would have though NYSC, more exposure and travelling would. Since 1967, outbreak of Biafra War. Ultimately, it what endangers our collective co-existence. When you think you are a big tribe and you can beat chest and condescend on the culture and history of others out of hubris and spoiling for a fight, then it's waste of time.
Samuk, they claim is irrelevant, but they create thread upon thread about Benin. That shows only one thing: OBSESSION.

Not surprising because where else do you see a people whose morning salutation tells the history of family clan? Where tradition has been preserved undiluted despite been the first to encounter Christianity, where every nook and cranny of the Kingdom tells a story? Where history lives and breathes? Where a monarchy was revived with vigour despite the machinations of the British?

Benin is pretty unique.

I'm posting the attachments below here because I saw that I was quoted here.

And I'm also guessing that you are fair and neutral when it comes to historical facts. So, see below:

Cheers!

samuk:



I can't believe that the Yorubas are so dull not to know the implication of what we are trying to save them from.

By forcefully writing themselves into Benin history, it gives seniority to the Oba of Benin over all Yoruba Obas. So much for their sophistication and cleverness.

This implication was not lost on the source you quoted because he even alluded to it.

Most scholars and historians of Yoruba history agree that Oranmiyan came to Benin and had his first child became the Oba of Benin, he then went to Oyo to have his second child, the Alafin of Oyo and returned to rule Ife where he possibly had other children who carried on as Ooni.

The reason for the seniority tussle between the old Ooni and Alaafin.

Alaafin being the second son to Oranmiyan cant be junior to Oranmiyan later children who took over in Ife.

Some even argued that the present Oonis are from the line of the chief priest that Oduduwa left to be taking care of the shrines after all his children left Ife to found other kingdoms.

Even if we agree that Oranmiyan was Yoruba, that still put Oba of Benin, his most senior son as the most senior Yoruba Obas.

So you have in terms of seniority, from Oranmiyan children. Let me see how they argue this.

1. Oba of Benin
2. Alaafin of Oyo
3. Ooni of Ife.

No matter how they spin it, the Alaafin will always be below the Oba of Benin in heirarchy.

Like to see what the Oyo guys around here think about this. The Oyo guys seats back and allow other Yorubas tribes without history to be arguing their history.

Hmm
Very often made mistake here

People like to think the status of the Ooni is determined by Oranmiyan or this idea of elder son = seniority

If we are to go by this "elder son =senior" logic then none of Oranmiyan's children should be considered because Oranmiyan himself was the youngest of his family
He had elder brothers and uncles who went out before him and had crowns before him

The seniority of the Ooni is based on the significance of Ife not on who is the eldest son and all that
Even if the son of a bastard were to manage to become king of ife that king remains the king of the world if we are to strictly go by Yoruba traditions

P. S some people actually claim Oranmiyan had a son in ife before leaving to Benin... At this moment I can't confirm this

MetaPhysical:
I forgot to mention also.

Since you keep harping Nupe/Igala.

Igala attach itself as a proto-Yoruba language and culture. This is corfirmable and has been repeated many times by their Attah.

Nupe is from Igala.

So whichever you take your origin ...you are still inferior to Yoruba.

Descended from a proto-Yoruba language

macof:


Hmm
Very often made mistake here

People like to think the status of the Ooni is determined by Oranmiyan or this idea of elder son = seniority

If we are to go by this "elder son =senior" logic then none of Oranmiyan's children should be considered because Oranmiyan himself was the youngest of his family
He had elder brothers and uncles who went out before him and had crowns before him

The seniority of the Ooni is based on the significance of Ife not on who is the eldest son and all that
Even if the son of a bastard were to manage to become king of ife that king remains the king of the world if we are to strictly go by Yoruba traditions

P. S some people actually claim Oranmiyan had a son in ife before leaving to Benin... At this moment I can't confirm this

The guy lives a lie.

I have debunked him on another thread for that lie, and he fled. See: https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/9#88277076

Only to sneak in hear to continue peddling same lie.

We truly can't save a man from himself.