Guy please I will advice you to please have a chat with the witnesses on this issue and I bet you they will take you round the bible to teach you the truth in Gods word the bible, one good thing about witnesses is that they always prove their points from the bible, but these calling them names and even their religious leaders can not prove any of their points with any bible quotation and they still believe all the lies that they are being feed with.Dont just believe things just because you grew up to meet it but ask questions, have an open mind and reasonable thats how you can learn.

Ken4Christ:


The spirit and the soul of man is even more real than the physical man because that part of man is the real man. The physical man cannot live without the spirit man but the spirit man can live without the physical man. The only thing is that the physical man cannot make contact with those in the realms of the spirit unless by revelation.

So, the rich man and Lazarus are still living till date but the former in torment while the latter in bliss of paradise. They are both conscious of the life they lived on earth.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a true life story. You had better believe it. Hell is real and it's a dreadful place no one should think of going. But Jesus died for you so you don't need to go there. If you receive him as your Lord and personal Saviour and walk in the light of God’s word, you will not go there. The choice is yours.

Off topic, totally off. next time calm down and read the questions asked PROPERLY

the point is; Can you give any evidence that people Yeshua was speaking about in that story are actually Spirit/ghosts and Not Humans ?


cc: Ken4christ

am waiting

almarthins:


I believe I have answered question before but it seems u new to it. It is the story about two 2 men with different societal status. One is rich, the other is poor. The Bible specifically mentioned d name of the poor man as Lazarus. D name of the other was nt stated. I am nt so good with story telling.Pls read book of Luke 16

Are the Two men ghosts/spirit ?

am waiting for your reply

ProfChris10:
The arguments are not necessary, One things is sure, death is an inevitable end to all. The most shocking thing is coming to the consciousness of an after life after death for those who doubt it. Ask those who has gone through near death experience. It's simple, Just believe and accept Jesus as your saviour. He is the only one that can save you. It's a choice though. But I pray the truth shines unto you. I have seen the reality of the spiritual. I know what I'm talking about.

NEAR death NOT death .

A so called muslim will see Beautiful MOSQUES in Heaven and receive advice to never leave Allah, while a so called Christian will claim to see Jesus . same with other religions , Does that not tell you they all hallucinations?

since you are a Christian , do you agree with Near Death experience of Muslims who visit heaven and saw Mosques ? u won't . yet talkin trash here.


Okay, Give me just one example of those whom Jesus resurrect from the dead who gave death experiences ?

2. Why is Jesus of Christian's comparing Lazarus death to Sleep ?


3. When Jesus told One of Lazarus sisters that the young man will rise , did she say She is presently risen in Heaven or any afterlife ? what was her response ?


I need you to answer these three questions; after all, ye are Christians

Peacefullove:


Are the Two men ghosts/spirit ?

am waiting for your reply

As at the time Jesus was telling the story both men were already dead. Jesus use the story to open the eyes of men to the mystery beyond the grave. They were both spirit, one to everlasting life, the other to eternal damnation. Read Luke 16.

almarthins:


As at the time Jesus was telling the story both men were already dead. Jesus use the story to open the eyes of men to the mystery beyond the grave. They were both spirit, one to everlasting life, the other to eternal damnation. Read Luke 16.

Lol, one to everlasting life even when Jesus haff not die , So Jesus 3:16 was all a lie ? after all according to your above post dem don they get everlasting life before the Only begotten son was sent to die for their sins.

There is no knowledge in the Grave (Hades) says the bible, But the rich man was in THE GRAVE (Hades) yet has knowledge of his household , Is that not Bible contradiction ?

that's a topic for another day, i dont expect u to reply

------- NOW to the point

At bold, U mean a spirit can ask for water to his cool Tongue ?

Peacefullove:


Lol, one to everlasting life even when Jesus haff not die , So Jesus 3:16 was all a lie ? after all according to your above post dem don they get everlasting life before the Only begotten son was sent to die for their sins.

There is no knowledge in the Grave (Hades) says the bible, But the rich man was in THE GRAVE (Hades) yet has knowledge of his household , Is that not Bible contradiction ?

that's a topic for another day, i dont expect u to reply

------- NOW to the point

At bold, U mean a spirit can ask for water to his cool Tongue ?

U have a choice, u either belief or u reject it. You fail to recognise the condition under which the richman requested for water. Don't ever pray to find ur self there. Hell is real and heaven is real. Jesus said strive to enter in, more than 4 times jesus pointed to the reality of the other side. Have u ever bn near death before?

almarthins:


U have a choice, u either belief or u reject it. You fail to recognise the condition under which the richman requested for water. Don't ever pray to find ur self there. Hell is real and heaven is real. Jesus said strive to enter in, more than 4 times jesus pointed to the reality of the other side. Have u ever bn near death before?

I can either accept or reject, someone cannot just tell me 2+2=3 and expect me to accept it just like that, He must be able to prove why and how he arrived at 3.
So let me verify the authenticity of your supposed proof, does it really support ghosts/spirit in hell theory.


Mr Man, you said RICH MAN , emphasis on " man" , does that not prove the said person is Human ?.


if he is spirit, How could a Spirit have asked for Physical WATER to cool a physical TONGUE ?

How come the said person still possess Flesh body parts like tongue?

Peacefullove:

I can either accept or reject, someone cannot just tell me 2+2=3 and expect me to accept it just like that, He must be able to prove why and how he arrived at 3.
So let me verify the authenticity of your supposed proof, does it really support ghosts/spirit in hell theory.


Mr Man, you said RICH MAN , emphasis on " man" , does that not prove the said person is Human ?.


if he is spirit, How could a Spirit have asked for Physical WATER to cool a physical TONGUE ?

How come the said person still possess Flesh body parts like tongue?

There are thing science can nt prove. because everything about science is based on what we can see. If u looking for a scientific explanation well am sorry to disappoint you. I can tell u one thing certainly there is life after death. Google more about this topic. I can tell u for sure that there is a creator whose knowledge and wisdom is far more advance than all the world scientist combined. Again I tell you- there is life after death.

almarthins:


There are thing science can nt prove. because everything about science is based on what we can see. If u looking for a scientific explanation well am sorry to disappoint you. I can tell u one thing certainly there is life after death. Google more about this topic. I can tell u for sure that there is a creator whose knowledge and wisdom is far more advance than all the world scientist combined. Again I tell you- there is life after death.

Are you sure the above is a response to me, DID I MENTIONED SCIENCE since have started this discussion ?

You gave a proof, which is expected to be verified if truly it support your assertion. AM USING THE SAME BIBLE YOU belived in , have never cited any scientific theory here .

I said :


I can either accept or reject, someone cannot just
tell me 2+2=3 and expect me to accept it just like
that, He must be able to prove why and how he
arrived at 3. ( You almarthins wont also accept until the person is able to prove it , did I lie ? so why scream Science ? )

So let me verify the authenticity of your supposed
proof, does it really support ghosts/spirit in hell
theory.

(from these three points from that BIBLE TEXT)



• Mr Man, you said RICH MAN , emphasis on "
man" , does that not prove the said person is
Human ?.


• f he is spirit, How could a Spirit have asked for
Physical WATER to cool a physical TONGUE ?

• How come the said person still possess Flesh
body parts like tongue?

in short, how come they are Bodily and not spirits evidence by tongues , fingers , water ?

Peacefullove:


Are you sure the above is a response to me, DID I MENTIONED SCIENCE since have started this discussion ?

You gave a proof, which is expected to be verified if truly it support your assertion. AM USING THE SAME BIBLE YOU belived in , have never cited any scientific theory here .

I said :


I can either accept or reject, someone cannot just
tell me 2+2=3 and expect me to accept it just like
that, He must be able to prove why and how he
arrived at 3. ( You almarthins wont also accept until the person is able to prove it , did I lie ? so why scream Science ? )

So let me verify the authenticity of your supposed
proof, does it really support ghosts/spirit in hell
theory.

(from these three points from that BIBLE TEXT)



• Mr Man, you said RICH MAN , emphasis on "
man" , does that not prove the said person is
Human ?.


• f he is spirit, How could a Spirit have asked for
Physical WATER to cool a physical TONGUE ?

• How come the said person still possess Flesh
body parts like tongue?

in short, how come they are Bodily and not spirits evidence by tongues , fingers , water ?

U don't need to start questioning a single man for knowledge that is readily available out there. Thanks to modernization u can access useful information. There is no more excuse for ignorance. Look again and tell me there are no spirit or primordial forces.

An exorcist once said if u want to believe their is God, a first hand experience with d devil will give a glimpse of his existence.

almarthins:


U don't need to start questioning a single man for knowledge that is readily available out there. Thanks to modernization u can access useful information. There is no more excuse for ignorance. Look again and tell me there are no spirit or primordial forces.

An exorcist once said if u want to believe their is God, a first hand experience with d devil will give a glimpse of his existence.

So so so silly . are we talking about God here or Luke 16 story ?

so give proof that those Yeshua talked about in that story are ghostsssss, Can a spirit have Fleshly Tongue ? Spirit begs for Water to drink ?


Use your brain . Even if we are to take this story as real, it will negate the teaching of Churchianity that said Human BODY doesn't go to hell , but dust . LIVE AND DIRECT its seen that human body is pictured in those verses .


Make una explain Matthew 10 vs 28 that Said BODY go to hell na ? just to let you know I know what am saying

Cc: almarthins

Peacefullove:


Off topic, totally off. next time calm down and read the questions asked PROPERLY

the point is; Can you give any evidence that people Yeshua was speaking about in that story are actually Spirit/ghosts and Not Humans ?

Cy
cc: Ken4christ

am waiting

Even if I explain it, your physical senses will not comprehend it. Give your life to Jesus and you will understand it.

Maximus85:


Chaiiiii.... Jesus used that as an illustration, Oga it's not a real story. Hell is real, but hell fire is a fat lie

You just said Jesus lied. Your own punishment will be worse. If it is a parable, Jesus will not mention specific names. Your unbelief doesn't change what it is.

Ken4Christ:


Even if I explain it, your physical senses will not comprehend it. Give your life to Jesus and you will understand it.

Millions of people who claim to give their lives to Jesus still give wrong & CONTRADICTORY meanings to bible texts. very weak escape route

Ken4christ, Since you have given your life to Christ and you understand that story , answer these :



• if these are spirits, How could a Spirit have asked for
Physical WATER to cool a physical TONGUE ?

• How come the said person still possess Flesh
body parts like tongue?

• Does it mean Body goes to hell too according to this story ?



Remember over 7,000 people are following this thread and your answers can strengthen them, and if u also fail to answer by finding escape routes to explain this glaring contradictions above, They would also know


So I put those three questions to you, answer them if u really understand the story and not just vomiting what uv been programmed with

Ken4Christ:


You just said Jesus lied. Your own punishment will be worse. If it is a parable, Jesus will not mention specific names. Your unbelief doesn't change what it is.

I'm so sorry for your spiritual blindness, I pray you can see in the screenshot that it's only a parable and not a real life story.

Shame on you cursing yourself.

This is Wikipedia. Wait till I show you what Jw.org says about this.

I have followed this conversation with keen interest since Sunday morning. I have questions to ask about the story/parable of the rich man. I would actually prefer those who say its not a parable to answer.

1. What in the story indicates that the rich man was a bad person and Lazarus was a good man?

2. If it were real, then all rich men would go to "hell fire" and only the poor ones go to "heaven". Would I be right to conclude that way?

3. Does it mean hell fire and heaven were within talking distance that Lazarus and the rich man could communicate?

I have a lot more questions to ask before I express my view on all if this. I am patiently waiting for answers to these questions.

oneolajire:




JMAN05, nice to see you on this thread

Ask your fellow Jw's, if there is no lake of fire, what do people have to lose if they reject the paradise on earth you promise those who join your congregation? What do occults, robbers, idolaters, sinners etc have to lose if they chose not to follow your doctrine, since they will have an abrupt end as JW teaches?

See, if there is nothing to lose, there is no paradise on earth to gain

What does the scriptures say? The wages of sin is .... ROM 6:23

2thes 1:9 KJV

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

That is what they stand to loose, eternal life. The faithfuls will gain eternal life.

Students study for exams because they don't want to 'lose'.
Parents train their children because they don't want to 'lose'
And the list is endless.

But JW'S preach that God has everlasting paradise for believers but no everlasting punishment for those who reject the offer of Jesus salvation as well those who live in sin! This is ridiculous.

Even civil governments have jails for offenders.

Don't you even see that your doctrine promotes ungodliness? A doctrine of no hell fire is suitable for those who love deceit.

JMAN05, may your eyes of understanding be enlightened.

It seems you are the one who needs to listen to God when he says he rewards the wicked with eternal destruction.

You see, telling people about hell fire doesn't make them true believers, it makes them dread fire, not offer whole-souled service to God out of love.

Do you think JWs suffer widespread persecution by govts, religious bodies, nabors, go on door to door preaching under rain, sun etc because they are afraid of hell fire? What about your adherents who believe that preaching is so essential, do all of them go on such preaching campaign, suffer such severe persecution even though they dread hell fire. Check what happened during the Nazi regime and see who stood there ground for God during that regime.

Think of how many cultists, criminals, vandals, riots, and many violence prevalent in the world today, how many do you attribute to Jws?

So I don't agree that fear of hell can preempt what one wants to do. Some may even be enraged by the thought that a God of love will punish them for trillions of years for a crime committed for just 4yrs for eg.

Is the above reasons why you believe in hell fire?

Ken4Christ:


You just said Jesus lied. Your own punishment will be worse. If it is a parable, Jesus will not mention specific names. Your unbelief doesn't change what it is.

Ken4christ: The Samaritans lived during Jesus days on earth, but never had anything to do with a Jew or jews. Yet he gave a parable about the good Samaritan,going by your claim, does that mean that Jesus spoke about a real life event ? No of course! In the same vein, the parable of the rich man,Lazarus & Abraham was fiction intended to teach & educate his listeners & followers.

Ken4Christ:


You just said Jesus lied. Your own punishment will be worse. If it is a parable, Jesus will not mention specific names. Your unbelief doesn't change what it is.

Ken4christ: The Samaritans lived during Jesus days on earth, but never had anything to do with a Jew or jews. Yet he gave a parable about the good Samaritan,going by your claim, does that mean that Jesus spoke about a real life event ? No of course! In the same vein, the parable of the rich man,Lazarus & Abraham was fiction intended to teach & educate his listeners & followers. Did Adam,the first sinner ever tortured as punishment for his sins? (Gen3:19). Hellfire is a fallacy.

Ken4Christ:


You just said Jesus lied. Your own punishment will be worse. If it is a parable, Jesus will not mention specific names. Your unbelief doesn't change what it is.

Ken4christ: The Samaritans lived during Jesus days on earth, but never had anything to do with a Jew or jews. Yet he gave a parable about the good Samaritan,going by your claim, does that mean that Jesus spoke about a real life event ? No of course! In the same vein, the parable of the rich man,Lazarus & Abraham was fiction intended to teach & educate his listeners & followers. Was Adam,the first sinner, ever tortured in hellfire as punishment for his sins? (Gen3:19. 2thes1:7-9. Jude1:7). Hellfire is a fallacy.

oneolajire:
Why are Jehovah Witnesses afraid of hell/lake of fire?

Each time you tell a JW member that God will send sinners to hell/lake of fire, they protest as if Jesus didn't talk about it. 

They ask "can you send people to hell if they are your family members"?  They quote Jer 32 vs 35 to defend themselves. 

But the question is, did God allow Sodom and Gomorah to be destroyed by fire? Did God destroy the world during the days of Noah? If yes, God can and will make sinners perish in hell/lake of fire

Matt 25 vs 41 Jesus talks about those whom hell/everlasting fire was originally designed for. Rev 20 vs 15 tells us some humans too will go to lake of fire. 

So why are Jw's taking Jesus for a liar? What are they afraid of? They should stop peddling lies and accept Jesus as their saviour if they don't want to end up in hell/lake of fire.

For more on the LIES of JW's read my write -up by following the link below 

https://www.nairaland.com/3328303/16-terrible-lies-jehovah-witnesses

God bless you dear.

Incrizz:


God bless you dear.

You and the OP, oneolajire don't know shishi...
Or Provide proofs...
My Questions:
Can you show us from your Bible where God punished Adam and Eve, (the first sinners punished by God) by everlasting, perpetual torture ?

Can you show us from your Bible where God sentenced Ananias& Sapphira to everlasting torture?

Shalom.

Janosky:


You and the OP, oneolajire don't know shishi...
Or Provide proofs...
My Questions:
Can you show us from your Bible where God punished Adam and Eve, (the first sinners punished by God) by everlasting, perpetual torture ?

Can you show us from your Bible where God sentenced Ananias& Sapphira to everlasting torture?

Shalom.

see as he is asking as if I wrote the bible. Guy, the bible is written in English language for you and me to read. Deliver yourself from doctrines of men and embrace the truth

oneolajire:


see as he is asking as if I wrote the bible. Guy, the bible is written in English language for you and me to read. Deliver yourself from doctrines of men and embrace the truth

Hello People,una dey see am korokoro.....

Oneolajire can not answer the Bible based questions presented to him.
The man can not defend the JUNK he calls hellfire.

Yet oneolajire wants all of una to swallow the RUBBISH wey he post to open this thread.

Incrizz , come and see as una dey deceive una selves..

Janosky:


Hello People,una dey see am korokoro.....

Oneolajire can not answer the Bible based questions presented to him.
The man can not defend the JUNK he calls hellfire.

Yet oneolajire wants all of una to swallow the RUBBISH wey he post to open this thread.

Incrizz , come and see as una dey deceive una selves..

The challenge jw guys have s that they have been cajoled to use their natural mindset to interpret spiritual things. I have shown you what Jesus said. You have the right to believe or reject it. Noah told the people of his time and they queried him as well. I advice you to pray to God to open your eyes to see the damnation of everlasting fire.

Remember, Jesus is not a comedian, his speeches and parables are extremely significant.
Repent, and be converted before it is too late.

oneolajire:
Why are Jehovah Witnesses afraid of hell/lake of fire?



But the question is, did God allow Sodom and Gomorah to be destroyed by fire? Did God destroy the world during the days of Noah? If yes, God can and will make sinners perish in hell/lake of fire

Matt 25 vs 41 Jesus talks about those whom hell/everlasting fire was originally designed for. Rev 20 vs 15 tells us some humans too will go to lake of fire. 

I challenge you to provide proof from your Bible that hell is lake of fire , can you?

Did God sentence the people of Sodom and Gomorrah to everlasting torture according to your teaching/doctrines?

Where in your Bible did God sentence the evil people of Noah's time to everlasting torture as punishment ?

I challenge you to provide proof..

oneolajire:


The challenge jw guys have s that they have been cajoled to use their natural mindset to interpret spiritual things. I have shown you what Jesus said. You have the right to believe or reject it. Noah told the people of his time and they queried him as well. I advice you to pray to God to open your eyes to see the damnation of everlasting fire.

Remember, Jesus is not a comedian, his speeches and parables are extremely significant.
Repent, and be converted before it is too late.

Matt25:41 Jesus Christ NEVER said what you claimed..

Answer these questions jare... Na you get "spiritual mindset to interpret spiritual things"
(Whatever that means....)


My Questions:
Can you show us from your Bible where God punished Adam and Eve, (the first sinners punished by God) by everlasting, perpetual torture ?

Can you show us from your Bible where God sentenced Ananias& Sapphira to everlasting torture?


Where did Jesus Christ tell you that evil people are being tortured perpetually ?

All you need is just to ascertain

How the Bible got to you?

In what language was it originally written?

Who were the inspired writers?

What is their beliefs about the hereafter?

Who translated the Bible into English?

What was the motive of the translators?

What happened to those who tried to expose the hypocrisy of the translators?

What is the cause of contradictions amidst those claiming Christians today?

Finally Who is William Tyndale?

Try to find answers to these questions then come back to TEACH us afterwards, everyone will be prepared to learn from a fervent researcher like you!

oneolajire:







You have heard the gospel, you have options to accept or reject. But it will do you good when you accept the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.  ‎

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but gospel means good news. Hell fire does not exactly sound like good news, does it?