.

A pastor does not have spiritual authority over you. Jesus is the spiritual authority over all christians.

We are not followers of pastors, we are followers of Jesus Christ, just like the pastor himself. The duty of the pastor is to lead us and teach us how to follow Jesus.

They are fellowship leaders.

mployer:
A pastor does not have spiritual authority over you. Jesus is the spiritual authority over all christians.

We are not followers of pastors, we are followers of Jesus Christ, just like the pastor himself. The duty of the pastor is to lead us and teach us how to follow Jesus.

They are fellowship leaders.

Good evening
This submission seems good by common sense but I don't think it's scriptural. Can you back it up with scriptures and verses?

lekzytaker:
Good evening, I have been hearing pastors talk about cursing their workers.etc because they have authority over them etc. Now I want to ask, in a case where the pastor wants to be controlling, denying you of certain benefits and claiming to do some things he did not do for you, and talking I'll of you with some secrets you shared with him/her, and also gets angry when you did not tell him/her of certain development in your life. And you decided to cut off from him and though he begins to accuse you wrongly and you had a minor argument and you decide to leave.
Lol some folks now accusing you of challenging the pastor ( the anointed one) that maybe there are pronouncement he/she made that would affect you.
What do you think would have been the best approach?

Whether it is a pastor or a member, if you are in a place that has a leader or authority and you feel based on certain issues you can't submit to such, the most amicable and honorable thing to do is to leave peacefully without causing strife or division.
Even if the other party take it hard or accusing you, maturity calls for you to hold your peace and move on if both can't reconcile. It shouldn't even get to the point of both turning on each other.

Also ensure you ignore those who come around to speak about the situation and making judgement either good or bad, they can be more dangerous than the person in question. Get busy with your own work/ministry or activities. If are well busy, there are things that will not bother you again.

God has called us unto peace and order.

I'm sorry to say this, but you have been seriously brainwashed by pastors and church politics such that you rate your pastor above God/His words. Who can curse whom the Lord has blessed and how can a curse affect you when you have done no wrong? Read the story of
Balak and Balam(numbers chapters 22&23), read Proverbs 26:2, read the story of Jacob and Laban his father in-law. When Laban began to cheat and control Jacob, God helped him. In your post you mentioned that the pastor:
*Wanted to be controlling(you have right to your privacy).
*Spoke ill of you to others, exposing some of your secrets.
*Accuses you wrongly.
*Denies you of benefits/lying that he did some things for you, etc
What else do you need to know that the pastor is far from God or fake? Forget the fact that they perform signs and wonders, God is just merciful, that's why He does not withdraw the grace from these pastors, that's if he is of God anyway. My dad had this same problem in the past (church politics) he stood his ground. What other sign do you need to know it's time to move on and leave such a church? Look for another ministry and worship there, increase your prayer life incase he was an occultic pastor.

lekzytaker:
Good evening, I have been hearing pastors talk about cursing their workers.etc because they have authority over them etc. Now I want to ask, in a case where the pastor wants to be controlling, denying you of certain benefits and claiming to do some things he did not do for you, and talking I'll of you with some secrets you shared with him/her, and also gets angry when you did not tell him/her of certain development in your life. And you decided to cut off from him and though he begins to accuse you wrongly and you had a minor argument and you decide to leave.
Lol some folks now accusing you of challenging the pastor ( the anointed one) that maybe there are pronouncement he/she made that would affect you.

hupernikao:


Good evening
This submission seems good by common sense but I don't think it's scriptural. Can you back it up with scriptures and verses?

In the old testament, the children of Isreal were followers of Moses. This is because they didn't have the spirit of God in them and could not follow God directly. As a result Moses had spiritual authority over them, because God can only relate to them through Moses.

But the case is different in the new testament. Now every believer has the Spirit of God in him/her and as a result is capable of following Jesus directly. He is capable of hearing Jesus and submit to His authority directly. The duty of the pastor is to guide and teach him how to do that effectively. He cannot successfully follow pastor and follow Jesus at the same time. The Bible said you can't serve two master at the same time. He is meant to learn from the pastor but follow Jesus, on whose authority he submits totally.

mployer:


In the old testament, the children of Isreal were followers of Moses. This is because they didn't have the spirit of God in them and could not follow God directly. As a result Moses had spiritual authority over them, because God can only relate to them through Moses.

But the case is different in the new testament. Now every believer has the Spirit of God in him/her and as a result is capable of following Jesus directly. He is capable of hearing Jesus and submit to His authority directly. The duty of the pastor is to guide and teach him how to do that effectively. He cannot successfully follow pastor and follow Jesus at the same time. The Bible said you can't serve two master at the same time. He is meant to learn from the pastor but follow Jesus, on whose authority he submits totally.

Well, though you didnt give me scriptures that support your submission and that is a very key factor. But i will like to let you know that one of the few areas in which Bible is very loud is in issue of submission. We can see and teach God's mind of submission from almost all points in the scriptures. And one key factor you will see in the Bible is that submission is as a result of authority. God/Christ, Christ/Church, Man/Woman, Government/Citizen, Parents/Children, Believers/Shepherd are all forms of submission by virtue of authority seen in the scriptures.

Firstly, authority of the church flows from Christ and to those given responsibilities of lives. There is so much to write on this but i will short it for now in little points.


1. Does the Bible Teaches that Believers should Submit to those who Labour on them Spiritually?

The bible did not only teach this, the bible was loud and demand total submission.

- Hebrews Writer

Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

The word "Obey" is translated from "peithō" it simply means to listen to, yield to, comply with, to trust, to have confidence in, be persuaded.
The word "that have the rule over you" is a single word "hēgeomai" used for a commander, an authority, a leader, like a governor. It is a very strong word that can be translated as "have control over you" used earlier in verse 7

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Rule over, that is an authority over. Here The writer of Hebrews is writing to believers. Same in verse 24

Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Verse 7 and 17 is clear he was referring to those who teach them God's word, their pastors, their leaders. He said they should OBEY, SUBMIT.


- Paul's Admonition

1 Timothy 5:17-18
17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially[b] they who labour in the word and doctrine.[/b]
18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Elders "presbyteros" one who presides.
That rule "proïstēmi" to be over, to superintend, preside over, to be a protector or guardian.

Strong words. He commanded that they be honored because of their responsibility when dont well. Honor will include submission.

1 Thess 5:12-13
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

Used the word "labor over you" same word "proïstēmi" those who have authority. He also said you should "esteem" they HIGHLY.

Why is this so, because they are supposed to labor, to shepherd, to protect, to direct you. They are those that Christ trust the lives of His sheep in their hands. The Bible teaches that they were given this responsibility by the Holyghost.

Acts 20:28
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and[b] to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers[/b], to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

That is a responsibilities given by the Holyghost. It is well cut out, to feed.

The word overseer is simply translated as a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent. Hence such man have control to correct, admonish, instruct by the word (2 Tim 3:16).


2. What of the Early Church.

We have Peter, in Acts 2, everyone didnt talk, Peter did, that is authority, leadership. Acts 6, Brethren called the multitude, that is to tell you their is leadership. They instruct and the multitude did exactly what they were asked to do, Acts 15:13, when all have spoken, Jame[/b]s rose and spoke and gave final verdict. It wasnt democratic. The leadership was definite. We can go on and on.

The doctrine of not submitting to authority in the church is alien to the scriptures and it is a modern day approach taken by those who either dont know what the bible teaches about it or just lack attitude of submission.


[b]3. Is Following or Obeying your Pastor negate following Christ?

There are myriad of scriptures that shows that even though all believers are followers of Christ, their are people set over us to shepherd, follow their footstep in the faith and be obedient to.

- Paul told the Corinthian church to follow him

1 Corinthians 11
11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Follower/follow meaning to mimic him, to copy him, to imitate and do exactly what he does. That is how the scriptures taught authority in the church.

If we can submit at our workplaces, NYSC camp, interviews etc, how much more those who handle God's word for our sake.


4. What If My Overseer is Taking Advantage of This or not Responsible?

Well, for you to have known this, it seems you may now know better than your leader, then its time to leave and not cause confusion. Like i told the OP, if irreconcilable issue arise, report to a superior if there is one else it is better to part way than to cause strife and division in the church. This will cause more harm to both.

Finally, You cannot teach from any where in the scriptures that the presence of the holyghost means their is no authority or submission in the church of God. Teaching that a believer shouldn't submit to authority in the church is a step towards disaster.

[i[b]]Jesus himself,[/b] chose Peter before his ascension and instructed him to FEED MY LAMB. That will include teaching by instruction, correction, admonition and rebuke. And can best be received by full submission and obedience to those who have authority over us. [/i]

This is the will of God for His church.

hupernikao:


Well, though you didnt give me scriptures that support your submission and that is a very key factor. But i will like to let you know that one of the few areas in which Bible is very loud is in issue of submission. We can see and teach God's mind of submission from almost all points in the scriptures. And one key factor you will see in the Bible is that submission is as a result of authority. God/Christ, Christ/Church, Man/Woman, Government/Citizen, Parents/Children, Believers/Shepherd are all forms of submission by virtue of authority seen in the scriptures.

Firstly, authority of the church flows from Christ and to those given responsibilities of lives. There is so much to write on this but i will short it for now in little points.


1. Does the Bible Teaches that Believers should Submit to those who Labour on them Spiritually?

The bible did not only teach this, the bible was loud and demand total submission.

- Hebrews Writer

Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

The word "Obey" is translated from "peithō" it simply means to listen to, yield to, comply with, to trust, to have confidence in, be persuaded.
The word "that have the rule over you" is a single word "hēgeomai" used for a commander, an authority, a leader, like a governor. It is a very strong word that can be translated as "have control over you" used earlier in verse 7

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Rule over, that is an authority over. Here The writer of Hebrews is writing to believers. Same in verse 24

Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Verse 7 and 17 is clear he was referring to those who teach them God's word, their pastors, their leaders. He said they should OBEY, SUBMIT.


- Paul's Admonition

1 Timothy 5:17-18
17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially[b] they who labour in the word and doctrine.[/b]
18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Elders "presbyteros" one who presides.
That rule "proïstēmi" to be over, to superintend, preside over, to be a protector or guardian.

Strong words. He commanded that they be honored because of their responsibility when dont well. Honor will include submission.

1 Thess 5:12-13
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

Used the word "labor over you" same word "proïstēmi" those who have authority. He also said you should "esteem" they HIGHLY.

Why is this so, because they are supposed to labor, to shepherd, to protect, to direct you. They are those that Christ trust the lives of His sheep in their hands. The Bible teaches that they were given this responsibility by the Holyghost.

Acts 20:28
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and[b] to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers[/b], to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

That is a responsibilities given by the Holyghost. It is well cut out, to feed.

The word overseer is simply translated as a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent. Hence such man have control to correct, admonish, instruct by the word (2 Tim 3:16).


2. What of the Early Church.

We have Peter, in Acts 2, everyone didnt talk, Peter did, that is authority, leadership. Acts 6, Brethren called the multitude, that is to tell you their is leadership. They instruct and the multitude did exactly what they were asked to do, Acts 15:13, when all have spoken, Jame[/b]s rose and spoke and gave final verdict. It wasnt democratic. The leadership was definite. We can go on and on.

The doctrine of not submitting to authority in the church is alien to the scriptures and it is a modern day approach taken by those who either dont know what the bible teaches about it or just lack attitude of submission.


[b]3. Is Following or Obeying your Pastor negate following Christ?

There are myriad of scriptures that shows that even though all believers are followers of Christ, their are people set over us to shepherd, follow their footstep in the faith and be obedient to.

- Paul told the Corinthian church to follow him

1 Corinthians 11
11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Follower/follow meaning to mimic him, to copy him, to imitate and do exactly what he does. That is how the scriptures taught authority in the church.

If we can submit at our workplaces, NYSC camp, interviews etc, how much more those who handle God's word for our sake.


4. What If My Overseer is Taking Advantage of This or not Responsible?

Well, for you to have known this, it seems you may now know better than your leader, then its time to leave and not cause confusion. Like i told the OP, if irreconcilable issue arise, report to a superior if there is one else it is better to part way than to cause strife and division in the church. This will cause more harm to both.

Finally, You cannot teach from any where in the scriptures that the presence of the holyghost means their is no authority or submission in the church of God. Teaching that a believer shouldn't submit to authority in the church is a step towards disaster.

[i[b]]Jesus himself,[/b] chose Peter before his ascension and instructed him to FEED MY LAMB. That will include teaching by instruction, correction, admonition and rebuke. And can best be received by full submission and obedience to those who have authority over us. [/i]

This is the will of God for His church.

You complicate things in your write up.

Submitting to someone as physical authority is different from submitting to someone as spiritual authority. I will obey his instructions as regards to running the church but my loyalty and fellowship is to Jesus Christ

Any form of spiritual submition to anyone except Jesus is idolatry.

There are men desiring to play the role of God in people's lives. It's dangerous.

Paul didn't absolutely require people to copy him. At least he wasn't married but he allowed them to get married.

mployer:


You complicate things in your write up.

Submitting to someone as physical authority is different from submitting to someone as spiritual authority. I will obey his instructions as regards to running the church but my loyalty and fellowship is to Jesus Christ

Any form of spiritual submition to anyone except Jesus is idolatry.

There are men desiring to play the role of God in people's lives. It's dangerous.

Paul didn't absolutely require people to copy him. At least he wasn't married but he allowed them to get married.

You are not following scriptures in any of the writing above and that is why you aren't giving scriptures for your explanation. You will need to do that to provide basis for your argument. Give me just one scripture that says believers should not submit to spiritual authority.

You are trying to find a scheme that doesn't exist in the scriptures.

Does the bible teaches total submission to church authority in spiritual matters? YES.

I have given you details earlier.
Those who rule over you (1 Thess 5:17-18) and labour in WORD, FEED my SHEEP (Acts 20:28), THEY WATCH OVER YOUR SOUL (Hebrews 13:17), they give account to God because of this responsibilities. Those are bible terms and non of this is related to running church only but spiritual activities.

"Feed" speaks about God's word not rice, "to give account to God" will be based on spiritual responsibility and conduct not carnal issues. These are spirituals.

The teaching and receiving of God's word is spiritual, leads to spiritual growth. To feed by the word. Watching over your soul to give account is not NGO or democracy. That is high spiritual responsibility. You are to have absolute submission to your authority.

That is why you should choose wisely where you fellowship and must be able to trust your Pastor as such use of God, if not find a place that scriptures is taken above man. But saying believers shouldn't submit to spiritual authority is saying their is no authority in the body.

When Paul said follow me, that is not speaking about mundane thing as marriage. He wasn't refering to carnal things, he is refering to spiritual and right conduct.

Philippians 4:9
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you

The learning is via the teaching of God's word not his marriage.
Do exactly what I do, what I teach. That is instructions not suggestions.

Have you read Paul's pastoral epistles to Timothy and Titus? Then you will understand what spiritual authority is.

2 Tim 2:2
And the things that thou hast heard from me among many witnesses, commit thou the same to faithful men who shall be able to teach others also.

Heard of me, commit same to, faithful men (faithful to exactly things I commanded), they teach same to others.

The church has a pattern, a doctrine, a purpose and that is what must be laid.

It is very strange to demand lack of submission to authority in church of God. No where was that taught in all the scriptures.

1 Tim 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth .

There is a how to behave in church and there will be a head to give direction instructions and correction to make that happen.

You said below

I will obey his instructions as regards to running the church but my loyalty and fellowship is to Jesus Christ

This is all false. If you are loyal to Jesus, you will be loyal to his word and what was taught in his scriptures. How do you know who is loyal to Jesus? He is loyal to his course, fellowship of brethren and submission to his authority via the church. You can't be loyal to the head of the church when you are disloyal to his body (church). We see your loyalty to the head (who is unseen) by your loyalty to his body (the church, the brethren).

All Christian reward taught in the bible is didn't speak about loyalty to Christ but your commitment to his work via his church. Because that is where loyalty is well tested.

Any form of spiritual submition to anyone except Jesus is idolatry.

This isn't true. Jesus gave men to be in authority, if you are submissive to Jesus, you will be submissive to his delegate. Those he gave responsibilities to, those who will give account of you. (Hebrews 13:17-19), Acts 20:28. They rule because the holyghost trust them with this responsibility.

There are men desiring to play the role of God in people's lives. It's dangerous.

This is a different issue entirely. Because there are bad eggs doesn't mean we will change the narrative of the scriptures. We shouldn't hide behind this and be swayed away. The bible instructions to leaders is to be done in all humility and in submission to Christ authority. They must see the flock as belonging to Jesus and not them. They are just privileged to be trusted by the holyghost and should handle responsibilities as such.

But the truth is loyalty to Jesus, is loyalty to his church, his people, his body. Same as submission. You can't claim lack of submission to the body and claim full submission to the head of same body.

hupernikao:


You are not following scriptures in any of the writing above and that is why you aren't giving scriptures for your explanation. You will need to do that to provide basis for your argument. Give me just one scripture that says believers should not submit to spiritual authority.

You are trying to find a scheme that doesn't exist in the scriptures.

Does the bible teaches total submission to church authority in spiritual matters? YES.

I have given you details earlier.
Those who rule over you (1 Thess 5:17-18) and labour in WORD, FEED my SHEEP (Acts 20:28), THEY WATCH OVER YOUR SOUL (Hebrews 13:17), they give account to God because of this responsibilities. Those are bible terms and non of this is related to running church only but spiritual activities.

"Feed" speaks about God's word not rice, "to give account to God" will be based on spiritual responsibility and conduct not carnal issues. These are spirituals.

The teaching and receiving of God's word is spiritual, leads to spiritual growth. To feed by the word. Watching over your soul to give account is not NGO or democracy. That is high spiritual responsibility. You are to have absolute submission to your authority.

That is why you should choose wisely where you fellowship and must be able to trust your Pastor as such use of God, if not find a place that scriptures is taken above man. But saying believers shouldn't submit to spiritual authority is saying their is no authority in the body.

When Paul said follow me, that is not speaking about mundane thing as marriage. He wasn't refering to carnal things, he is refering to spiritual and right conduct.

Philippians 4:9
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you

The learning is via the teaching of God's word not his marriage.
Do exactly what I do, what I teach. That is instructions not suggestions.

Have you read Paul's pastoral epistles to Timothy and Titus? Then you will understand what spiritual authority is.

2 Tim 2:2
And the things that thou hast heard from me among many witnesses, commit thou the same to faithful men who shall be able to teach others also.

Heard of me, commit same to, faithful men (faithful to exactly things I commanded), they teach same to others.

The church has a pattern, a doctrine, a purpose and that is what must be laid.

It is very strange to demand lack of submission to authority in church of God. No where was that taught in all the scriptures.

1 Tim 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth .

There is a how to behave in church and there will be a head to give direction instructions and correction to make that happen.

You said below



This is all false. If you are loyal to Jesus, you will be loyal to his word and what was taught in his scriptures. How do you know who is loyal to Jesus? He is loyal to his course, fellowship of brethren and submission to his authority via the church. You can't be loyal to the head of the church when you are disloyal to his body (church). We see your loyalty to the head (who is unseen) by your loyalty to his body (the church, the brethren).

All Christian reward taught in the bible is didn't speak about loyalty to Christ but your commitment to his work via his church. Because that is where loyalty is well tested.




This isn't true. Jesus gave men to be in authority, if you are submissive to Jesus, you will be submissive to his delegate. Those he gave responsibilities to, those who will give account of you. (Hebrews 13:17-19), Acts 20:28. They rule because the holyghost trust them with this responsibility.



This is a different issue entirely. Because there are bad eggs doesn't mean we will change the narrative of the scriptures. We shouldn't hide behind this and be swayed away. The bible instructions to leaders is to be done in all humility and in submission to Christ authority. They must see the flock as belonging to Jesus and not them. They are just privileged to be trusted by the holyghost and should handle responsibilities as such.

But the truth is loyalty to Jesus, is loyalty to his church, his people, his body. Same as submission. You can't claim lack of submission to the body and claim full submission to the head of same body.

I don't have time for your law and doctrine filled argument.

Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. John10:27

I hear the voice of Jesus every day and I follow Him. I submit to Him alone on daily basis.
I obey the church rules and contribute in spreading the gospel. I recognize and respect the spiritual gifts in every child of God not just ministers. I believe in prayer of agreement but my spiritual loyalty is to Christ alone.

Folks like you cannot lead me astray. I am more mature a Christian than that. No human has spiritual authority over me.

I was a born again Christian for 2 years without belonging to any church and God was with me. I joined a church because I needed the fellowship of brethren and also contribute in winning souls, not to switch the authority of Christ to another man. A man made of flesh. SMH.

mployer:

I don't have time for your law and doctrine filled argument.

Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. John10:27

I hear the voice of Jesus every day and I follow Him. I submit to Him alone on daily basis.
I obey the church rules and contribute in spreading the gospel. I recognize and respect the spiritual gifts in every child of God not just ministers. I believe in prayer of agreement but my spiritual loyalty is to Christ alone.

Folks like you cannot lead me astray. I am more mature a Christian than that. No human has spiritual authority over me.

I was a born again Christian for 2 years without belonging to any church and God was with me. I joined a church because I needed the fellowship of brethren and also contribute in winning souls, not to switch the authority of Christ to another man. A man made of flesh. SMH.

Well, if you dont have time for doctrine, why did you contribute to doctrinal issues? You shouldnt have. You must be ready to prove all things (doctrinal) you say and write by the scriptures. So, if you dont have time, you may need to avoid giving contribution that can lead you and others astray.

I have given you plethora of scriptures to show how church submission is well taught and demanded in the bible. You being a Christian for 30years doesnt mean you cant be wrong. And when you are shown from the scriptures, it is "Christiany" to accept it in all honesty except you can show me from all the verses i quoted that i am wrong.

Ability to submit is maturity in itself, to be responsible. Submission to spiritual authority is a responsibility of a believer. Even in all secular endeavor, submission to authority and taking right instructions are key to maturity and promotion. How much more in the Church of God.

You said you hear Jesus daily and follow him. The scriptures you read to know him, wasnt written by Jesus, he used men to write them, your submission to the scriptures is indirectly submission to the authority of such men.
You got saved, how? Did you preach to yourself? Or Jesus came down to preach to you? he sent men to preached to you and you obey them, to get you saved. You were taught by men, you read men's doctrine, yes, they are written by men inspired by Jesus but they are men.

There is nothing God do in His Church without involving men. And he decides who to put in place. Your lack of submission to them is lack of submission to Christ.

I tell you again.
Christ is the head of the church, the church is the body of Christ.
You cant claim submission to Jesus and neglect submission to his body. It is in His body we see you practice submission. James said, how do you love God that you cant see but neglect the believer you see? Same. How do you honor, submit to Jesus you without submission to his body.

The scriptures warned severally against disloyal men in the church. The church in the scriptures were loyal to the people who have authority over them, they didnt claim my loyalty is only to JESUS. If the early church claim that, no one will read Paul, Peter, James, Jude, we wont even have the bible today as they will claim we all hear Jesus nah just as you claim now. You can imagine the danger of such actions.

So, dont be dogmatic to knowledge, when you are shown from the scriptures that you are wrong, the right attitude is to research, study and accept it not defending your points without a place in the scriptures.

Disloyal to church authority on spiritual things is Modern Day Revelation (MDR) that does not have a place in the scriptures.

mployer:

I don't have time for your law and doctrine filled argument.

Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. John10:27

I hear the voice of Jesus every day and I follow Him. I submit to Him alone on daily basis.
I obey the church rules and contribute in spreading the gospel. I recognize and respect the spiritual gifts in every child of God not just ministers. I believe in prayer of agreement but my spiritual loyalty is to Christ alone.

Folks like you cannot lead me astray. I am more mature a Christian than that. No human has spiritual authority over me.

I was a born again Christian for 2 years without belonging to any church and God was with me. I joined a church because I needed the fellowship of brethren and also contribute in winning souls, not to switch the authority of Christ to another man. A man made of flesh. SMH.

So you still follow some doctrines and traditions of men by your own admission.

mployer:


You complicate things in your write up.

Submitting to someone as physical authority is different from submitting to someone as spiritual authority. I will obey his instructions as regards to running the church but my loyalty and fellowship is to Jesus Christ

Any form of spiritual submition to anyone except Jesus is idolatry.

There are men desiring to play the role of God in people's lives. It's dangerous.

Paul didn't absolutely require people to copy him. At least he wasn't married but he allowed them to get married.

according to Jesus Christ every submission is against His very teaching. When Paul asks that women for instance submit to their husbands, Paul teaches them a doctrine that is not of Jesus Christ.

The simple rule is you cannot serve two masters.

lekzytaker:

Good evening, I have been hearing pastors talk about cursing their workers.etc because they have authority over them etc. Now I want to ask, in a case where the pastor wants to be controlling, denying you of certain benefits and claiming to do some things he did not do for you, and talking I'll of you with some secrets you shared with him/her, and also gets angry when you did not tell him/her of certain development in your life. And you decided to cut off from him and though he begins to accuse you wrongly and you had a minor argument and you decide to leave.
Lol some folks now accusing you of challenging the pastor ( the anointed one) that maybe there are pronouncement he/she made that would affect you.
What do you think would have been the best approach?

Jesus Christ placed no man as authority over you, not even your so-called pastors and their church leadership.

In fact, Jesus Christ commanded His followers against occupying seats of power or authority over their brothers. So what you see and call leadership in your churches are antiChrist since they go against the teachings of Jesus Christ.

According to Jesus Christ, you are meant to have one master and one master alone. If you submit to Jesus and then to your pastors, you are violating the term and conditions of your agreement with Jesus Christ.

Read the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented you in the gospels, so you understand what He in fact teaches from the lies men tell in His name. That way you know your place and who you truly belong to rather than allowing men kick you anywhere they can in the Name of God.