Mancala:


I noticed in the documentary you provided, the mention of a huge bronze bird on the roof of the Oba of Benins palace in a bronze sculpture. This is strikingly similar to the bird on the head of the horseman. Would you happen to know the significance of this bird?

TAO11:
I'm so sorry I missed this question.

I do not know what the significance of the bird on the palace was, nor do I know how it's related (if related) to the bird adorning the horseman's headdress.

I hope to be able to find out in the nearest time and get back to you, in case I find out before you.

Cheers!

Hi there! It's been some time.

I finally found something as per your question to me on the significance of such birds.

To share in the nearest time. Wanted to put this post at the top of my list first.

macof:
These bini people really looking for enemies up and down and they just might get one out of the Yoruba if they continue with this attitude and will need to be taught a lesson so they can shut up. Tiny insignificant people really becoming pests to everyone

who is the everyone you are referring to? I don't see Benin arguing with other tribes. It's the Yoruba with their inferiority complex that tries to use Benin (the only renown greatest kingdom) as a measure of their own greatness.. you are your own pest.

davidnazee:


who is the everyone you are referring to? I don't see Benin arguing with other tribes. It's the Yoruba with their inferiority complex that tries to use Benin (the only renown greatest kingdom) as a measure of their own greatness.. you are your own pest.

Lmao. Because I say you suffer from inferiority complex you have started using my own words
We know who thinks themselves small, those who are really small

TAO11:


And then, as usual, you finally ran away after running out of lies to tell.

Moreover, there was never a time in the course of all my exchange with you where you've ever uttered even one word (falsehood or truth) in reply to the historical fact that [b]the Ooni of Ife was suzerain, imperial, and divine over Benin kingdom.[/b]

The most you did on this specific issue was your complain that I should not simply provide you with the detailed references to the quoted scholarly submissions; but that I should also help you with finding the books, perhaps because you are too lazy, broke, or technically challenged to find the books yourself.

So, your spin that you attached a Wikipedia screenshot (smh) and "links" (what link?) addressing this issue is yet another example of your white lies.

Your Wikipedia screenshot simply mentioned that bronze/brass casting in Benin kingdom can be traced to the 13th century. And this, as I have shown, agrees with the Benin tradition and historical fact that bronze/brass casting was introduced into Benin kingdom from Ife during the reign of Oba Oguola of Benin kingdom (1280 - 1295).

In sum, no fictitious people (not even your fellow Binis) viewing this saw you post anything (falsehood or truth) in response to the historical fact that [b]the Ooni of Ife was suzerain, imperial, and divine over Benin kingdom.[/b]

Deal with the detailed references to the quotes as I have provided them, and stop chickening out. Or have you already done so?

Ooni of Ife that was no longer recognized as relevant by his fellow yoruba kingdoms will be overlord over the most powerful kingdom? something must be wrong with you.
The acclaimed greatness of Ife was already a myth at the start of the Oba dynasty in Benin.. It is generally believed Ife was no longer in existence as a kingdom when Eweka dynasty started and from 1100 to 1800s Ife is potrayed as a little less populated village and sometimes abadoned due to invasions. It had already been reduced to a mere village that had an Oracle good at divination.

why don't you come up with something that shows Ife as a kingdom anytime between 1200-1800.. If you believe your Ife to be that great, then come up with proof from within that period that shows Ife was relevant and important..
Ooni of Ife was NEVER Lord over any Oba of Benin.

macof:

Lmao. Because I say you suffer from inferiority complex you have started using my own words
We know who thinks themselves small, those who are really small

So "inferiority complex or pests" is your own words? no wonder you Yorubas also claimed Jerusalem is Ijebu, historically know as Jebu Isalem and Queen of Sheba was buried there lol.. you guys are insane.
well you claimed Benin too so I'm not really suprised..

If you have encountered any Edo man before you will know who actually sees themselves big, and those who are really small.

davidnazee:


Ooni of Ife that was no longer recognized as relevant by his fellow yoruba kingdoms will be overlord over the most powerful kingdom? something must be wrong with you.
The acclaimed greatness of Ife was already a myth at the start of the Oba dynasty in Benin.. It is generally believed Ife was no longer in existence as a kingdom when Eweka dynasty started and from 1100 to 1800s Ife is potrayed as a little less populated village and sometimes abadoned due to invasions. It had already been reduced to a mere village that had an Oracle good at divination.

why don't you come up with something that shows Ife as a kingdom anytime between 1200-1800.. If you believe your Ife to be that great, then come up with proof from within that period that shows Ife was relevant and important..
Ooni of Ife was NEVER Lord over any Oba of Benin.

davidnazee:


So "inferiority complex or pests" is your own words? no wonder you Yorubas also claimed Jerusalem is Ijebu, historically know as Jebu Isalem and Queen of Sheba was buried there lol.. you guys are insane.
well you claimed Benin too so I'm not really suprised..

If you have encountered any Edo man before you will know who actually sees themselves big, and those who are really small.

ọdẹ, it's not everything you read online you should take seriously.
If anyone tells you Jerusalem is Ijebu Salem how is that Yoruba people's business? Did we send the person? Does such person speak from Yoruba history?

Gtfoh with your inferiority complex when you lot have finished your online war you will rest
Ants

macof:

ọdẹ, it's not everything you read online you should take seriously.
If anyone tells you Jerusalem is Ijebu Salem how is that Yoruba people's business? Did we send the person? Does auch person speak from Yoruba history?

Gtfoh with your inferiority complex when you lot have finished your online war you will rest
Ants

Mugu then I shouldn’t take you and your likes seriously when u come online to claim a fictitious Ife greatness.

TAO11:

I asked you to bring proof of Ife existing between 1100 and 1800, u brought a “them say“ document about Benin. You don’t understand my request or it is difficult and impossible to bring anything about Ife?

davidnazee:


Mugu then I shouldn’t take you and your likes seriously when u come online to claim a fictitious Ife greatness.

For the Yoruba, Ife remains the source of human civilization.

davidnazee:


[s]I asked you to bring proof of Ife existing between 1100 and 1800, u brought a “them say“ document about Benin. You don’t understand my request or it is difficult and impossible to bring anything about Ife?[/s]

(1) When you bring me proof you existed between 2010 and 2011. Although you were born before 2010 and you exist today.

Your grand idiocy should be obvious to you now.

Only an autistic Benin mind will come up with such request.


(2) Regarding the document, it's wasnt about Benin only and it's about other places too, but it particularly states that the Ooni of Ife is suzerain over Benin Kingdom. I know you saw it.

All Binis be blind lately! (See it below again).

TAO11:


(1) When you bring me proof you existed between 2010 and 2011. Although you were born before 2010 and you exist today.

Your grand idiocy should be obvious to you now.

Only an autistic Benin mind will come up with such request.


(2) Regarding the document, it's wasnt about Benin only and it's about other places too, but it particularly states that the Ooni of Ife is suzerain over Benin Kingdom. I know you saw it.

Binis be pretending to be blind! (See it again).

I was born before 2010 but I can narrate places I visited between 2010 and 2011 and people I encountered and businesses I conducted within that time. Only a dull and shallow Yoruba person will never understand how to make a point.

I know u know Ife had no power or territories between 12th and 19th centuries and Benin conquered all the Yoruba Kingdoms around Ife including those that troubled Ife. You just can’t comprehend how they did it lol.

davidnazee:


I was born before 2010 but I can narrate places I visited between 2010 and 2011 and people I encountered and businesses I conducted within that time. Only a dull and shallow Yoruba person will never understand how to make a point.

I know u know Ife had no power or territories between 12th and 19th centuries and Benin conquered all the Yoruba Kingdoms around Ife including those that troubled Ife. You just can’t comprehend how they did it lol.

Oh, you were born before 2010 and you exist today is evidence that you exist between 2010 and 2011.

Yet Ife's existence by at least the 4th century BC and its existence today somehow doesn't answer dumb request.

Wait, are you a Bini? Cos only a Bini can be this strongly m0ronic.

What hurts your butt so badly is the attached historical reference which shows that the Ooni of was imperial, divine, and suzerain over your Benin Kingdom.

Ordinary Ibadan raided territories of your Kingdom for slaves and sacked many territories within your Kingdom.

davidnazee:


Mugu then I shouldn’t take you and your likes seriously when u come online to claim a fictitious Ife greatness.

It's not fictitious when supported with records and reliable sources

TAO11:


Oh, you were born before 2010 and you exist today is evidence that you exist between 2010 and 2011.

Yet Ife's existence by at least the 4th century BC and its existence today somehow doesn't answer dumb request.

Wait, are you a Bini? Cos only a Bini can be this strongly m0ronic.

What hurts your butt so badly is the attached historical reference which shows that the Ooni of was imperial, divine, and suzerain over your Benin Kingdom.

Ordinary Ibadan raided territories of your Kingdom for slaves and sacked many territories within your Kingdom.

Regarding "food", the historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep. The Ijebus themselves claim to have descended from Oba-nita, as they say of themselves, "Ogietiele, eru Obanita," i.e., Ogetiele, servants of Obanita. But who was this Oba-nita? Tradition says he also was a victim of sacrifice by the Olowu or King of Owu." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas, pp. 18-19

A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins.

samuk:


Regarding "food", the historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep. The Ijebus themselves claim to have descended from Oba-nita, as they say of themselves, "Ogietiele, eru Obanita," i.e., Ogetiele, servants of Obanita. But who was this Oba-nita? Tradition says he also was a victim of sacrifice by the Olowu or King of Owu." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas, pp. 18-19

A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins.

Hahaha! See bolded from your own copied and pasted!

"A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins".

The boldened from your own copied & pasted therefore shows clearly that such slurs come from outside of the Ijebu-subgroup.

It is obviously not uncommon in the past how different groups or sub-groups make up such politically motivated slurs against others.

The Ijebus themselves have such slurs about other subgroups.

But in the final analysis, I appreciate you for proving (from your own copied & pasted) that such account is historically ineffectual.

TAO11:


Oh, you were born before 2010 and you exist today is evidence that you exist between 2010 and 2011.

Yet Ife's existence by at least the 4th century BC and its existence today somehow doesn't answer dumb request. Wait, are you a Bini? Cos only a Bini can be this strongly m0ronic.

What hurts your butt so badly is the attached historical reference which shows that the Ooni of was imperial, divine, and suzerain over your Benin Kingdom.

Ordinary Ibadan raided territories of your Kingdom for slaves and sacked many territories within your Kingdom.

It’s obvious you have been defeated.. does my request bother you? If you believe Ife was overlord over Benin Kingdom then provide evidence that Ife even existed between 12th and 19th (not 4th century) centuries during the Benin reign.
The fictitious fame and glory of Ife is believed to have died and vanished long before 12th century and Ife itself was acknowledged to be a small and barely populated village and many times abandoned during the centuries of Benin reign.
So if you want to say this small Ife village was overlord over the most powerful Kingdom then u have to provide evidence of a strong Ife during Benin reign.

you have been bringing documents to support your arguments so u should be able to provide something to support Ife existed as a strong Kingdom during 12th to 19th centuries and wasn’t dead by that time.

macof:

It's not fictitious when supported with records and reliable sources

Any history that is narrated by only myths is fictitious to me. Anyways I’m more concerned with Ife from 12th to 19th centuries. Ife during that time was not great, was correctly acknowledged to be a small village, very underpopulated and was in constant fear of the little Yoruba Kingdoms around it.
This Ife was never lord over Benin.

davidnazee:


It’s obvious you have been defeated.. does my request bother you? If you believe Ife was overlord over Benin Kingdom then provide evidence that Ife even existed between 12th and 19th (not 4th century) centuries during the Benin reign.
The fictitious fame and glory of Ife is believed to have died and vanished long before 12th century and Ife itself was acknowledged to be a small and barely populated village and many times abandoned during the centuries of Benin reign.
So if you want to say this small Ife village was overlord over the most powerful Kingdom then u have to provide evidence of a strong Ife during Benin reign.

you have been bringing documents to support your arguments so u should be able to provide something to support Ife existed as a strong Kingdom during 12th to 19th centuries and wasn’t dead by that time.

(1) I'm clearly talking to someone autistic here.

Someone who says: yes, Ife existed from the 4th century BC.

Who also says: yes, Ife continues to exist today.

But who conludes from these statement to say no, Ife doesn't exist in between.

Anyways, to accommodate your autism, see below:

"During the era of Ife's greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to The Niger River and westward to what is today's southern Togo*."

Reference:
S.P. Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300, p.2.

(2) Also find attached that historical reference you hate so much.

davidnazee:


Any history that is narrated by only myths is fictitious to me. Anyways I’m more concerned with Ife from 12th to 19th centuries. Ife during that time was not great, was correctly acknowledged to be a small village, very underpopulated and was in constant fear of the little Yoruba Kingdoms around it.
This Ife was never lord over Benin.

It's not myth if supported by historical evidence and can be fit properly into general chronology

Also your hurt feelings don't count :* sorry baby

macof:

It's not myth if supported by historical evidence and can be fit properly into general chronology

Also your hurt feelings don't count :* sorry baby

Any historical evidence for Ife within 12th and 19th centuries points to the fact that Ife was a small underpopulated village, many times abandoned and was in fear of its neighbors. That is the only evidence of Ife from those centuries.
Those evidence describes (it’s actually also documented) Ife as not great and almost non existent.
I wonder who is hurt lol. Me that my kingdom is described as great or you that yours is said to be dead lol.

Ife can be great to you, I won’t argue that but it was never Lord over Benin. It was too small and powerless to do that.

davidnazee:


Any historical evidence for Ife within 12th and 19th centuries points to the fact that Ife was a small underpopulated village, many times abandoned and was in fear of its neighbors. That is the only evidence of Ife from those centuries.
Those evidence describes (it’s actually also documented) Ife as not great and almost non existent.
I wonder who is hurt lol. Me that my kingdom is described as great or you that yours is said to be dead lol.

Ife can be great to you, I won’t argue that but it was never Lord over Benin. It was too small and powerless to do that.

(1) "During the era of Ife's greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to The Niger River and westward to what is today's southern Togo*."

Reference:
S.P. Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300, p.2.

(2) See also that attachment that triggers cardiac-arrest within you.



cc: macof, do you also notice that self-delusions have gripped these kids full-blown lately?

TAO11:


(1) I'm clearly talking to someone autistic here.

Someone who says: yes, Ife existed from the 4th century BC.

Who also says: yes, Ife continues to exist today.

But who conludes from these statement to say no, Ife doesn't exist in between.

Anyways, to accommodate your autism, see below:

"During the era of Ife's greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to The Niger River and westward to what is today's southern Togo*."

Reference:
S.P. Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300, p.2.

(2) Also find attached that historical reference you hate so much.

.

Is it very difficult for u to make sense or comprehend simple tasks?
If I had said prove Oyo greatness I know u would happily post documents detailing Oyo wars and conquests, expansion, territories it held its trade and economy, probably rich details of Oyo. But now u are asked to do same for Ife to prove its existence during 12th to 19th centuries you are panicking. Only thing u can provide (because that’s all there is) about Ife is a supposed statement by a Benin chief.
There’s nothing to say about Ife to support its fictitious reign over Benin.
Ife can be summarized as “The village where the native doctor lived”.

davidnazee:
.

Is it very difficult for u to make sense or comprehend simple tasks?
If I had said prove Oyo greatness I know u would happily post documents detailing Oyo wars and conquests, expansion, territories it held its trade and economy, probably rich details of Oyo. But now u are asked to do same for Ife to prove its existence during 12th to 19th centuries you are panicking. Only thing u can provide (because that’s all there is) about Ife is a supposed statement by a Benin chief.
There’s nothing to say about Ife to support its fictitious reign over Benin.
Ife can be summarized as “The village where the native doctor lived”.

Notice how he switched to blind-mode.

Let's see if he sees this time.

"During the era of Ife's greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to The Niger River and westward to what is today's southern Togo*."

Reference:
S.P. Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300, p.2.

davidnazee:
.

Is it very difficult for u to make sense or comprehend simple tasks?
If I had said prove Oyo greatness I know u would happily post documents detailing Oyo wars and conquests, expansion, territories it held its trade and economy, probably rich details of Oyo. But now u are asked to do same for Ife to prove its existence during 12th to 19th centuries you are panicking. Only thing u can provide (because that’s all there is) about Ife is a supposed statement by a Benin chief.
There’s nothing to say about Ife to support its fictitious reign over Benin.
Ife can be summarized as “The village where the native doctor lived”.

And the attachment is a statement of self-acknowledgement of Ife's suzerainty over Benin Kingdom from Benin sources itself.

TAO11:


(1) "During the era of Ife's greatest historic power, the twelfth to fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to The Niger River and westward to what is today's southern Togo*."

Reference:
S.P. Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300, p.2.

(2) See also that attachment that triggers cardiac-arrest within you.



cc: macof, do you also notice that self-delusions have gripped these kids full-blown lately?

The bold statement above is an assumption that isn’t backed with further information on that supposed influence of Ife.
So let’s limit our time frame to 12th to 14th centuries. Please provide any detail on any event about Ife within that time frame. Ife ceased to exist many hundreds of years before 12th century. Every record of Ife greatness dates the supposed greatness to hundreds of years before 12th century.
And it’s on record that Ife was a very small village after 12th century, no power, no territories no growth, constantly invaded with the few residents fleeing into the forests.
Ife during Benin reign was nothing and that’s a fact not myth.

davidnazee:


The bold statement above is an assumption that isn’t backed with further information on that supposed influence of Ife.
So let’s limit our time frame to 12th to 14th centuries. Please provide any detail on any event about Ife within that time frame. Ife ceased to exist many hundreds of years before 12th century. Every record of Ife greatness dates the supposed greatness to hundreds of years before 12th century.
And it’s on record that Ife was a very small village after 12th century, no power, no territories no growth, constantly invaded with the few residents fleeing into the forests.
Ife during Benin reign was nothing and that’s a fact not myth.

Lol...

Your unnamed attachment says things like:

(a) "... there is yet no evidence ..."

(b) "...we can not in the light of present evidence..."

These satements are clearly contigent on time (if you know what that means), and are therefore bound to change subsequent to the year they were being made.

I therefore challenge you to provide the following:

(1) The author (or full reference) of these statements.

(2) The year these statements were made.

(3) Evidence that they were made prior to the historical statements I quoted.

davidnazee:


Any historical evidence for Ife within 12th and 19th centuries points to the fact that Ife was a small underpopulated village, many times abandoned and was in fear of its neighbors. That is the only evidence of Ife from those centuries.
Those evidence describes (it’s actually also documented) Ife as not great and almost non existent.
I wonder who is hurt lol. Me that my kingdom is described as great or you that yours is said to be dead lol.

Ife can be great to you, I won’t argue that but it was never Lord over Benin. It was too small and powerless to do that.

LOL. As TAO11 said "delusions"
Go and cry in your usual corner kid

macof:

LOL. As TAO11 said "delusions"
Go and cry in your usual corner kid

Delusion is when you say a small powerless village ruled over a mighty and powerful Kingdom.
I guess u don’t know the meaning of delusion even tho you like to play with words.

I’m not crying oo. I have never been conquered or subjugated so why I go cry?
you should be the one crying and hurt, we know your history.

davidnazee:


Delusion is when you say a small powerless village ruled over a mighty and powerful Kingdom.
I guess u don’t know the meaning of delusion even tho you like to play with words.

I’m not crying oo. I have never been conquered or subjugated so why I go cry?
you should be the one crying and hurt, we know your history.

C'mon, we all know you've been crying na!

You've been conquered and subjugated on different threads from whuch you've fled. Do you want me to start counting?

Anyways, I'm waiting for you to address my last mention to you!

TAO11:


Lol...

Your unnamed attachment says things like:

(a) "... there is yet no evidence ..."

(b) "...we can not in the light of present evidence..."

These satements are clearly contigent on time (if you know what that means), and are therefore bound to change subsequent to the year they were being made.

I therefore challenge you to provide the following:

(1) The author (or full reference) of these statements.

(2) The year these statements were made.

(3) Evidence that they were made prior to the historical statements I quoted.

So you like evidence yet you cannot provide a single evidence to support your claim that small ife was great Kingdom between 12 and 19 centuries.

TAO11:


C'mon, we all know you are crying na!

You've been conquered and subjugated on different threads from whuch you've fled. Do you want me to start counting?

Anyways, I'm waiting for you to address my last mention to you!

I’m not an internet warrior so I don’t know how to conquer people online but real fact is: my ancestors conquered and ruled your ancestors for hundreds of years.. even your most powerful Kingdom Oyo recoiled sharply before a powerful Benin Kingdom.