Problemkid1:
It's between wizkid vs Vybz kartel battle. Something like that. See the screenshot

Nigeria twitter never disappoints..

The Kenyans are probably still undergoing training for a second leg of Kenya vs Nigeria

Danielnino00:


Mark my words, by 2030, Kenya will be the biggest economy in Africa and the most developed African country



According to what RVP said anyway,

Maybe if the Nigerian and South African economies stood completely still...... And I literally mean like 0% growth, then Kenya would catch up at around 2070-2080......

jl115:

Maybe if the Nigerian and South African economies stood completely still...... And I literally mean like 0% growth, then Kenya would catch up at around 2070-2080......

You're contracting..while Kenya is growing.Learn about compounding.In 15yrs Kenya GDP had grow 7 times while South Africa has marked timed.In 10yrs Kenya GDP will triple to 300B or at worse double.In 15yrs at worst it would be 500-600B.South Africa the next five years will grow at zero.Infact I checked in 2005 South African GDP was 230b dollars and Kenya was mere 18b dollars.That was 13 times bigger.As we speak South Africa economy is stuck now at 270B while kenya is 95B.That is 3 times larger.The last 10yrs you have not grown an inch while your population has increased...so you're like Nigeria manufacturing poverty.You now have power blackouts like Nigeria...as your power sector choke with debt as economy is not growing enough to bring investment in new power stations or maintain the old ones.Crime is out of hand and like joblessness at 40% the world worst with inequality too.That is just the perfect recipe to see capital flight to countries like Kenya.If you grow at all this decade be very happy otherwise you're going down... starting this year at negative 6 percent...that means GDP of 250B ceteris paribus..back to 15 yrs ago.But population has grown from 47m to 57m..so you have 10m more people to take care of in same stuck economy..and I am not counting immigrants. Now that you're doing great manufacturing poverty and crime the next stage is to like Nigeria export it globally.

Sudan was nothing but Oil. Nearly 80% of all the oil wells went with South Sudan. Their GDP sunk to 30-40B. From a high of 123B to now 40B...Sudan collapsed has been spectacular. Angola has dropped from 150B to now approaching 50B.

Kazikazi:
Hohohoho Hohohoho
Where is Sudan? Please educate me on Sudan big fall from grace.I can't understand how it happened, was it a witchcraft?

rvp20182:
You're contracting..while Kenya is growing.Learn about compounding.In 15yrs Kenya GDP had grow 7 times while South Africa has marked timed.In 10yrs Kenya GDP will triple to 300B or at worse double.In 15yrs at worst it would be 500-600B.South Africa the next five years will grow at zero.Infact I checked in 2005 South African GDP was 230b dollars and Kenya was mere 18b dollars.That was 13 times bigger.As we speak South Africa economy is stuck now at 270B while kenya is 95B.That is 3 times larger.The last 10yrs you have not grown an inch while your population has increased...so you're like Nigeria manufacturing poverty.You now have power blackouts like Nigeria...as your power sector choke with debt as economy is not growing enough to bring investment in new power stations or maintain the old ones.Crime is out of hand and like joblessness at 40% the world worst with inequality too.That is just the perfect recipe to see capital flight to countries like Kenya.If you grow at all this decade be very happy otherwise you're going down... starting this year at negative 6 percent...that means GDP of 250B ceteris paribus..back to 15 yrs ago.But population has grown from 47m to 57m..so you have 10m more people to take care of in same stuck economy..and I am not counting immigrants. Now that you're doing great manufacturing poverty and crime the next stage is to like Nigeria export it globally.

- Firstly I know what compounding is...... Im an investment analyst thus that was factored in to my calculation!

- The South African economy is already set to grow by 4% in 2021, so again don't know were you get your zero growth from

- secondly I used GDP ppp in my calculation as GDP Nominal is a very basic and outdated way of measuring economic performance as it does not take into account cost of living and uses market exchange rates which fluctuate daily. Hence ppp is a much better way of comparing economic performance of countries.

Thus SAs gdp ppp is at $805 billion and Kenyan gdp ppp is at $194 billion

- also speaking on poverty, the poverty figure in SA is 18% and the poverty figure in Kenya is 37% thus even with our inequality our poverty levels are still half than that of Kenya.

- As for electricity, eskom Is being dealt with as we speak and IPP are know free to sell electricity straight to municipalities..... Never mind the fact that 90% of SAns have access to electricity while only 70 odd % of Kenyans have access to electricity thus 30% of your population live in a permanent blackout

Also just fyi

P=194 billion
F=805 billion
I=5.5% (average growth of the Kenyan economy over the last 10 years)

Thus:

N= 27

Now if we do the same calculation with Nigeria then N would be 34.

Conclusion it would take Kenya 27 years to overtake SA and 34 years to overtake Nigeria if for the completely impossible chance that both economies don't grow a single %

So you run into PPP - and declared Nominal GDP basic and outdated . I guess WB, IMF and everyone else that still uses Nominal GDP as the basis for comparing countries and calculating GDP haven't heard of the investment analyst from South Africa!!

For argument sake, let us say that Kenya will catch up with South Africa in Nominal GDP very soon

That South Africa will grow by 4% next - will only happen after getting hammered like 10% - otherwise the South Africa last grew I think in 2011.The medium term prognosis that I saw pre-COVID - was that in next 5yrs - you were to grow at btw -1 and 1% - Zero. Kenya has generally hit a swift spot of 6% growth annually - if we keep that consistent for a decade - and we maintain our currency - our nominal GDP will double before 2030.

Heck in another 2yrs - we will be due to re-basing - and with Mobile Money on steroids - there is going to be a lot more insight on our how big the economy is and we will estimate better.

When you're comparing Kenya and South Africa - factor the rate of growth - in anything.

Electricity - Kenya in 2005 - had 12% of it's citizen connected to electricity. Our Eskom had 300,000 customers. Now KPLC has maybe 8,000,000 in about 15 yrs. The total household in Kenya are about 12M - assuming HH size of 4 in population of 48M. So we still have about 4M household to go but considering that we are connecting about 1M HH every year - we will be at universal electricity access pretty soon. Many have described it as world fastest electrification rate.

Now Eskom - has many issues - DEBT (32B) - before you think about capital investment in dams and opex. It's going to drag on - now that POST-COVID-19 damages to rest of the economy will make South Africa ability to rescue it very difficult. See how SAA airline was left to bite the dust.

In short - Kenya is coming up - very very fast. Right now it's 3rd largest Sub-Saharan economy - and pretty much in most index (that measure scale - not intensity) - it's sit behind South Africa and Nigeria.

That we are even considering Kenya overtaking both - one has gazillion of oil and 200m people- while the other is basically NIC - both with twice Kenya land size- shows Kenya is moving pretty fast.

jl115:

- Firstly I know what compounding is...... Im an investment analyst thus that was factored in to my calculation!

- The South African economy is already set to grow by 4% in 2021, so again don't know were you get your zero growth from

- secondly I used GDP ppp in my calculation as GDP Nominal is a very basic and outdated way of measuring economic performance as it does not take into account cost of living and uses market exchange rates which fluctuate daily. Hence ppp is a much better way of comparing economic performance of countries.

Thus SAs gdp ppp is at $805 billion and Kenyan gdp ppp is at $194 billion

- also speaking on poverty, the poverty figure in SA is 18% and the poverty figure in Kenya is 37% thus even with our inequality our poverty levels are still half than that of Kenya.

- As for electricity, eskom Is being dealt with as we speak and IPP are know free to sell electricity straight to municipalities..... Never mind the fact that 90% of SAns have access to electricity while only 70 odd % of Kenyans have access to electricity thus 30% of your population live in a permanent blackout

Also just fyi

P=194 billion
F=805 billion
I=5.5% (average growth of the Kenyan economy over the last 10 years)

Thus:

N= 27

Now if we do the same calculation with Nigeria then N would be 34.

Conclusion it would take Kenya 27 years to overtake SA and 34 years to overtake Nigeria if for the completely impossible chance that both economies don't grow a single %

rvp20182:
So you run into PPP - and declared Nominal GDP basic and outdated . I guess WB, IMF and everyone else that still uses Nominal GDP as the basis for comparing countries and calculating GDP haven't heard of the investment analyst from South Africa!!

For argument sake, let us say that Kenya will catch up with South Africa in Nominal GDP very soon

That South Africa will grow by 4% next - will only happen after getting hammered like 10% - otherwise the South Africa last grew I think in 2011.The medium term prognosis that I saw pre-COVID - was that in next 5yrs - you were to grow at btw -1 and 1% - Zero. Kenya has generally hit a swift spot of 6% growth annually - if we keep that consistent for a decade - and we maintain our currency - our nominal GDP will double before 2030.

Heck in another 2yrs - we will be due to re-basing - and with Mobile Money on steroids - there is going to be a lot more insight on our how big the economy is and we will estimate better.

When you're comparing Kenya and South Africa - factor the rate of growth - in anything.

Electricity - Kenya in 2005 - had 12% of it's citizen connected to electricity. Our Eskom had 300,000 customers. Now KPLC has maybe 8,000,000 in about 15 yrs. The total household in Kenya are about 12M - assuming HH size of 4 in population of 48M. So we still have about 4M household to go but considering that we are connecting about 1M HH every year - we will be at universal electricity access pretty soon.Now Eskom - has many issues - DEBT (32B) - before you think about capital investment in dams and opex. It's going to drag on - now that POST-COVID-19 damages to rest of the economy will make South Africa ability to rescue it very difficult. See how SAA airline was left to bite the dust.

In short - Kenya is coming up - very very fast. Right now it's 3rd largest Sub-Saharan economy - and pretty much in most index (that measure scale - not intensity) - it's sit behind South Africa and Nigeria.

That we are even considering Kenya overtaking both - one has gazillion of oil and 200m - while the other is basically NIC - shows Kenya is moving pretty fast.

I said GDP Nominal is outdated for comparing countries for the reasons stated above hence why GDP ppp exist.... And If you don't believe an Investment Analyst from SA then maybe this will change your mind:

http://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/gdp-nominal-vs-gdp-ppp.php

"PPP basis arguably more useful when comparing differences in living standards between nations. A haircut in New York is more expensive than in Lima; the price of a taxi ride of the same distance is higher in Paris than in Tunis; and a ticket to a cricket game costs more in London than in Lahore. PPP is an exchange rate at which the currency of one country is converted into that of the second country in order to purchase the same volume of goods and services in both countries"

https://www.investopedia.com/updates/purchasing-power-parity-ppp/

https://applebutterdreams./the-difference-between-gdp-nominal-and-gdp-ppp/

"The two most common ways to measure GDP per capita are nominal and purchasing power parity (abbreviated PPP). Nominal is an attempt at an absolute measure, a sort of immovable standard that remains the same from country to country. It is the original concept of GDP. In contrast, PPP is an attempt at a relative measure, taking factors of each country into consideration in order to put a number on a person’s standard of living within that country."

- the Rand is one of the most volatile currencies in the world one day they it can depreciate by 20% then appreciate by 20% within days and we have seen this during the Zuma presidency and Ramaphosa presidency..... In the long run however the Rand is expected to appreciate against the dollar, which in turn will increase the GDP Nominal figure.... And thus Kenya will never catch up.


- South Africa will grow at 4% next year and the economy is set to contract 5.8% this year..... Not 10% as youbstated

- SA growth 2011: 3.8% 2012: 2.2%. 2013: 2.5%
2014: 1.9% 2015: 1.2% 2016: 0.4% 2017: 1.4% 2018: 0.8% 2019: - 0.6%

- the covid pandemic as actually helped Eskom as demand has dropped dramatically which has allowed its engineers to carry out critical maintenance....also as stated before Eskom is being totally restructured and IPPs are now able to sell direct to municipalities, thus will in fact help municipalities avoid load shedding entirely

- and only you are considering that Kenya will overtake Nigeria and SA....all non delusional people including your countrymen have never once mentioned that Kenya will overtake SA economically since it won't happen in our lifetime

Don't sweat the GDP nominal and PPP. In my view GDP PPP is useful for internal analysis within a country - for measuring say poverty - and such things - so you avoid USD messing up local "issues". For comparing countries - then we use nominal GDP - coz international trade is done in USD anyway. Obviously you hold a contrarian view.

The rand doesn't just fluctuate for nothing - it's fluctuate because the South Africa economy is sick (fundamentals) - and investors sentiments - so folks moving their money out (capital flight) - and right now - most of that capital is moving to London and other places including even Nairobi. I don't see this changing until you fix the fundamental issues affecting South Africa economy. Credit rating agencies are following - downgrading South Africa debt - meaning Ramaphosa will soon be paying as much interest as Kenya pays for the debt (something like 6-8%).

I am not investment analyst like you - I am a software engineer - but seem I understand lot more than you do.

Eskom problem are not little maintenance - that engineers can fix. There are balance sheet issues. DEBT. Restructuring that debt - would give Eskom money to fix things in the scale they need. Otherwise all those IPPS, maintenance - are short-gap fixes - quick wins - but Eskom need to figure out how to repay 32 billion dollars of rand.

I am sure as investment analyst - you'd recommend - something - about fixing Eskom structural issues - $113 billion in liabilities - a technical insolvent company - that is your only power supplier.

jl115:

I said GDP Nominal is outdated for comparing countries for the reasons stated above hence why GDP ppp exist.... And If you don't believe an Investment Analyst from SA then maybe this will change your mind:

http://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/gdp-nominal-vs-gdp-ppp.php

"PPP basis arguably more useful when comparing differences in living standards between nations. A haircut in New York is more expensive than in Lima; the price of a taxi ride of the same distance is higher in Paris than in Tunis; and a ticket to a cricket game costs more in London than in Lahore. PPP is an exchange rate at which the currency of one country is converted into that of the second country in order to purchase the same volume of goods and services in both countries"

https://www.investopedia.com/updates/purchasing-power-parity-ppp/

https://applebutterdreams./the-difference-between-gdp-nominal-and-gdp-ppp/

"The two most common ways to measure GDP per capita are nominal and purchasing power parity (abbreviated PPP). Nominal is an attempt at an absolute measure, a sort of immovable standard that remains the same from country to country. It is the original concept of GDP. In contrast, PPP is an attempt at a relative measure, taking factors of each country into consideration in order to put a number on a person’s standard of living within that country."

- the Rand is one of the most volatile currencies in the world one day they it can depreciate by 20% then appreciate by 20% within days and we have seen this during the Zuma presidency and Ramaphosa presidency..... In the long run however the Rand is expected to appreciate against the dollar, which in turn will increase the GDP Nominal figure.... And thus Kenya will never catch up.


- South Africa will grow at 4% next year and the economy is set to contract 5.8% this year..... Not 10% as youbstated

- SA growth 2011: 3.8% 2012: 2.2%. 2013: 2.5%
2014: 1.9% 2015: 1.2% 2016: 0.4% 2017: 1.4% 2018: 0.8% 2019: - 0.6%

- the covid pandemic as actually helped Eskom as demand has dropped dramatically which has allowed its engineers to carry out critical maintenance....also as stated before Eskom is being totally restructured and IPPs are now able to sell direct to municipalities, thus will in fact help municipalities avoid load shedding entirely

- and only you are considering that Kenya will overtake Nigeria and SA....all non delusional people including your countrymen have never once mentioned that Kenya will overtake SA economically since it won't happen in our lifetime

Danielnino00:


Nigeria twitter never disappoints..

The Kenyans are probably still undergoing training for a second leg of Kenya vs Nigeria

They'll still get their ass whopped

jl115:

Maybe if the Nigerian and South African economies stood completely still...... And I literally mean like 0% growth, then Kenya would catch up at around 2070-2080......

Bruh

Mark my words

They will end up like Sudan MIA

Danielnino00:


Mark my words, by 2030, Kenya will be the biggest economy in Africa and the most developed African country



According to what RVP said anyway,

Just30:



Mark my words

They will end up like Sudan MIA

rvp20182:
Don't sweat the GDP nominal and PPP. In my view GDP PPP is useful for internal analysis within a country - for measuring say poverty - and such things - so you avoid USD messing up local "issues". For comparing countries - then we use nominal GDP - coz international trade is done in USD anyway. Obviously you hold a contrarian view.

The rand doesn't just fluctuate for nothing - it's fluctuate because the South Africa economy is sick (fundamentals) - and investors sentiments - so folks moving their money out (capital flight) - and right now - most of that capital is moving to London and other places including even Nairobi. I don't see this changing until you fix the fundamental issues affecting South Africa economy. Credit rating agencies are following - downgrading South Africa debt - meaning Ramaphosa will soon be paying as much interest as Kenya pays for the debt (something like 6-8%).

I am not investment analyst like you - I am a software engineer - but seem I understand lot more than you do.

Eskom problem are not little maintenance - that engineers can fix. There are balance sheet issues. DEBT. Restructuring that debt - would give Eskom money to fix things in the scale they need. Otherwise all those IPPS, maintenance - are short-gap fixes - quick wins - but Eskom need to figure out how to repay 32 billion dollars of rand.

I am sure as investment analyst - you'd recommend - something - about fixing Eskom structural issues - $113 billion in liabilities - a technical insolvent company - that is your only power supplier.

- We are not measuring trade bro we are measuring gdp (gross DOMESTIC product) hence why Economist came up with GDP PPP as $1 in the US can not buy the same amount of goods as $1 in SA. Also did you not read my sources? all of them say that PPP is better when comparing economies to each other......for the reasons I stated before.

- I wont deny that the South African economy is broken.......hell any country will be fvcked if it had a president like Zuma.......However Ramaphosa is different, he is a Businessman a Billionaire, he isn't the president of the country for the money or to enrich himself like Zuma did, he put in competent Ministers like Pravin and Tito to rectify our economy........the reforms are happening, hence why SA is already set to grow by 4% in 2021..........As for the downgrades, well we are still in the top 3 in Africa when it comes to our credit rating, several steps higher than Kenya in fact!!

- You understand more than me? My investment portfolios suggest otherwise and the fact that you think GDP nominal is better for comparing countries

- Yes I know dipsh1t, hence why I've reiterated the fact that Eskom is being restructured and partially privatized several times.......also the IPP bill has allowed municipalities to buy electricity direct from IPPs........Its not a short gap fix, its literally the opposites as it allows for new startup companies to generate electricity and to sell it....It also relives the monopoly Eskom had in the market

- My recommendation for Eskom is pretty simple.......Privatize it, and allow IPPs to produce and sell electricity to the people......luckily we are sort of seeing that happen already.

dont mind the kenyan

economics is not his strong hold

jl115:

I said GDP Nominal is outdated for comparing countries for the reasons stated above hence why GDP ppp exist.... And If you don't believe an Investment Analyst from SA then maybe this will change your mind:

http://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/gdp-nominal-vs-gdp-ppp.php

"PPP basis arguably more useful when comparing differences in living standards between nations. A haircut in New York is more expensive than in Lima; the price of a taxi ride of the same distance is higher in Paris than in Tunis; and a ticket to a cricket game costs more in London than in Lahore. PPP is an exchange rate at which the currency of one country is converted into that of the second country in order to purchase the same volume of goods and services in both countries"

https://www.investopedia.com/updates/purchasing-power-parity-ppp/

https://applebutterdreams./the-difference-between-gdp-nominal-and-gdp-ppp/

"The two most common ways to measure GDP per capita are nominal and purchasing power parity (abbreviated PPP). Nominal is an attempt at an absolute measure, a sort of immovable standard that remains the same from country to country. It is the original concept of GDP. In contrast, PPP is an attempt at a relative measure, taking factors of each country into consideration in order to put a number on a person’s standard of living within that country."

- the Rand is one of the most volatile currencies in the world one day they it can depreciate by 20% then appreciate by 20% within days and we have seen this during the Zuma presidency and Ramaphosa presidency..... In the long run however the Rand is expected to appreciate against the dollar, which in turn will increase the GDP Nominal figure.... And thus Kenya will never catch up.


- South Africa will grow at 4% next year and the economy is set to contract 5.8% this year..... Not 10% as youbstated

- SA growth 2011: 3.8% 2012: 2.2%. 2013: 2.5%
2014: 1.9% 2015: 1.2% 2016: 0.4% 2017: 1.4% 2018: 0.8% 2019: - 0.6%

- the covid pandemic as actually helped Eskom as demand has dropped dramatically which has allowed its engineers to carry out critical maintenance....also as stated before Eskom is being totally restructured and IPPs are now able to sell direct to municipalities, thus will in fact help municipalities avoid load shedding entirely

- and only you are considering that Kenya will overtake Nigeria and SA....all non delusional people including your countrymen have never once mentioned that Kenya will overtake SA economically since it won't happen in our lifetime

this is the funniest write up ever

rvp20182:
Don't sweat the GDP nominal and PPP. In my view GDP PPP is useful for internal analysis within a country - for measuring say poverty - and such things - so you avoid USD messing up local "issues". For comparing countries - then we use nominal GDP - coz international trade is done in USD anyway. Obviously you hold a contrarian view.

The rand doesn't just fluctuate for nothing - it's fluctuate because the South Africa economy is sick (fundamentals) - and investors sentiments - so folks moving their money out (capital flight) - and right now - most of that capital is moving to London and other places including even Nairobi. I don't see this changing until you fix the fundamental issues affecting South Africa economy. Credit rating agencies are following - downgrading South Africa debt - meaning Ramaphosa will soon be paying as much interest as Kenya pays for the debt (something like 6-8%).

I am not investment analyst like you - I am a software engineer - but seem I understand lot more than you do.

Eskom problem are not little maintenance - that engineers can fix. There are balance sheet issues. DEBT. Restructuring that debt - would give Eskom money to fix things in the scale they need. Otherwise all those IPPS, maintenance - are short-gap fixes - quick wins - but Eskom need to figure out how to repay 32 billion dollars of rand.

I am sure as investment analyst - you'd recommend - something - about fixing Eskom structural issues - $113 billion in liabilities - a technical insolvent company - that is your only power supplier.

Problemkid1:
It's between wizkid vs Vybz kartel battle. Something like that. See the screenshot

lol.
You can't manage K.O.T bro
The figures will be kenya 30 vs Nigeria 18
So you have smashed Jamaica!! .. Am behind Nigeria on that.
For Nigeria and Ghana of course am behind Ghana
For Uganda vs Nigeria I will support non.

jl115:

- We are not measuring trade bro we are measuring gdp (gross DOMESTIC product) hence why Economist came up with GDP PPP as $1 in the US can not buy the same amount of goods as $1 in SA. Also did you not read my sources? all of them say that PPP is better when comparing economies to each other......for the reasons I stated before.

- I wont deny that the South African economy is broken.......hell any country will be fvcked if it had a president like Zuma.......However Ramaphosa is different, he is a Businessman a Billionaire, he isn't the president of the country for the money or to enrich himself like Zuma did, he put in competent Ministers like Pravin and Tito to rectify our economy........the reforms are happening, hence why SA is already set to grow by[b]4% in 2021[/b]..........As for the downgrades, well we are still in the top 3 in Africa when it comes to our credit rating, several steps higher than Kenya in fact!!

- You understand more than me? My investment portfolios suggest otherwise and the fact that you think GDP nominal is better for comparing countries

- Yes I know dipsh1t, hence why I've reiterated the fact that Eskom is being restructured and partially privatized several times.......also the IPP bill has allowed municipalities to buy electricity direct from IPPs........Its not a short gap fix, its literally the opposites as it allows for new startup companies to generate electricity and to sell it....It also relives the monopoly Eskom had in the market

- My recommendation for Eskom is pretty simple.......Privatize it, and allow IPPs to produce and sell electricity to the people......luckily we are sort of seeing that happen already.

You will have about -16 growth in 2020 according to your deputy minister of finance. When you get that 4% next year,that will mean you went back 16 steps and managed to move back by 4 steps. Too little.That's not growth, but just a little recovery.

Eskom?
Privatizing is not an antidote. You remember how Eskom performed in apartheid era? Eskom was one of the best companies worldwide, but it was wholly under government, and you had the cheapest power in the world.That show how Its possible to have a very efficient power generating company under government's supervision.The privatization of eskom will make power to be very expensive just the same way the cellphone companies like vodacom have been doing by overcharging everything

Kazikazi:
You will have about -16 growth in 2020 according to your deputy minister of finance. When you get that 4% next year,that will mean you went back 16 steps and managed to move back by 4 steps. Too little.That's not growth, but just a little recovery.

Eskom?
Privatizing is not an antidote. You remember how Eskom performed in apartheid era? Eskom was one of the best companies worldwide, but it was wholly under government, and you had the cheapest power in the world.That show how Its possible to have a very efficient power generating company under government's supervision.The privatization of eskom will make power to be very expensive just the same way the cellphone companies like vodacom have been doing by overcharging everything

The Communist vs The Capitalist..which way to go lads

rvp20182:
Don't sweat the GDP nominal and PPP. In my view GDP PPP is useful for internal analysis within a country - for measuring say poverty - and such things - so you avoid USD messing up local "issues". For comparing countries - then we use nominal GDP - coz international trade is done in USD anyway. Obviously you hold a contrarian view.

The rand doesn't just fluctuate for nothing - it's fluctuate because the South Africa economy is sick (fundamentals) - and investors sentiments - so folks moving their money out (capital flight) - and right now - most of that capital is moving to London and other places including even Nairobi. I don't see this changing until you fix the fundamental issues affecting South Africa economy. Credit rating agencies are following - downgrading South Africa debt - meaning Ramaphosa will soon be paying as much interest as Kenya pays for the debt (something like 6-8%).

I am not investment analyst like you - I am a software engineer - but seem I understand lot more than you do.

Eskom problem are not little maintenance - that engineers can fix. There are balance sheet issues. DEBT. Restructuring that debt - would give Eskom money to fix things in the scale they need. Otherwise all those IPPS, maintenance - are short-gap fixes - quick wins - but Eskom need to figure out how to repay 32 billion dollars of rand.

I am sure as investment analyst - you'd recommend - something - about fixing Eskom structural issues - $113 billion in liabilities - a technical insolvent company - that is your only power supplier.

The developers will rule the world..i have spoken

mtisTheQubit:


The Communist vs The Capitalist..which way to go lads

None is better.The best thing is to mix the two like how TZ is doing currently.

mtisTheQubit:

The developers will rule the world..i have spoken

You believed that lie of him being a software engineer?
He have no intelligence to do engineering stuff

someone with poor numeracy skills as an engineer

we are all in trouble

Kazikazi:
You believed that lie of him being a software engineer?
He have no intelligence to do engineering stuff

jl115:

- We are not measuring trade bro we are measuring gdp (gross DOMESTIC product) hence why Economist came up with GDP PPP as $1 in the US can not buy the same amount of goods as $1 in SA. Also did you not read my sources? all of them say that PPP is better when comparing economies to each other......for the reasons I stated before.

- I wont deny that the South African economy is broken.......hell any country will be fvcked if it had a president like Zuma.......However Ramaphosa is different, he is a Businessman a Billionaire, he isn't the president of the country for the money or to enrich himself like Zuma did, he put in competent Ministers like Pravin and Tito to rectify our economy........the reforms are happening, hence why SA is already set to grow by 4% in 2021..........As for the downgrades, well we are still in the top 3 in Africa when it comes to our credit rating, several steps higher than Kenya in fact!!

- You understand more than me? My investment portfolios suggest otherwise and the fact that you think GDP nominal is better for comparing countries

- Yes I know dipsh1t, hence why I've reiterated the fact that Eskom is being restructured and partially privatized several times.......also the IPP bill has allowed municipalities to buy electricity direct from IPPs........Its not a short gap fix, its literally the opposites as it allows for new startup companies to generate electricity and to sell it....It also relives the monopoly Eskom had in the market

- My recommendation for Eskom is pretty simple.......Privatize it, and allow IPPs to produce and sell electricity to the people......luckily we are sort of seeing that happen already.

by 2018 according to W.B we were at 75% were is the 70% coming from?
FYI out of 90% of total E.C in S.A around 20% of your population are likely to end up without electricity
During the old apartheid period a good number of people were told not to pay the bills (by the ANC) and the practise merely continued for some times. So it ended up living a huge burden to the natives.
The Consumers in Soweto alone ( suburb of Johannesburg) owe over 20 billion rand to Eskom - what will that have to say?, the lonely poor blacks who were fooled by ANC will now have to struggle with huge taxes to pay the bills and the defaults will end up losing it.
Your best is for the best(likes of you/boers) the rest are living miserable life the reason they don't want to see other blacks invading there country.
And yes S.A is ahead of kenya in nearly all aspects

Kazikazi:
None is better.The best thing is to mix the two like how TZ is doing currently.

Yes ..the idea is not togo overboard ..Dont go the American way or the North korea way..you will always end up messing upstuff

Kazikazi:
You believed that lie of him being a software engineer?
He have no intelligence to do engineering stuff

Kazi Rvp cuts as someone well educated than most folks here to be honest..he might be rough on folks sometimes but cant deny the facts he presents..bythe way kaaz am software engineer also..so count me as an engineer

But we are comparing Kenya and South Africa - hence we use NOMINAL GDP. If you're talking domestic issues in South Africa - then use the rand or PPP - as your economic estimates.

I think issues facing South Africa - are structural - pre-dates Zuma - and Ramaphosa has no magic ward.

What you're doing is stripping the monopoly the revenues by allowing IPPS and municipalities is making the situation worse for ESKOM. This is Nigeria in the making ...Nigeria have thrown 10B dollars..and blackout still persists.

What is needed is to split Eskom into 4 companies - Regulator, Supplier (many), and distributors -and transmission. Eskom can become the transmission company coz it's hard to strip that apart.

But first split Eskom - let South Africa gov convert that debt into equity - by pumping money into Eskom and then quickly privatize.

Nobody will buy something that is INSOLVENT.

Kazikazi:
You will have about -16 growth in 2020 according to your deputy minister of finance. When you get that 4% next year,that will mean you went back 16 steps and managed to move back by 4 steps. Too little.That's not growth, but just a little recovery.

Eskom?
Privatizing is not an antidote. You remember how Eskom performed in apartheid era? Eskom was one of the best companies worldwide, but it was wholly under government, and you had the cheapest power in the world.That show how Its possible to have a very efficient power generating company under government's supervision.The privatization of eskom will make power to be very expensive just the same way the cellphone companies like vodacom have been doing by overcharging everything

Ngong forest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztJ1MMwypZ4

Baliv254:
Ngong forest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztJ1MMwypZ4

Life the way supposed to be..big space deep in forest like ..thats what i like

Kazikazi:
You will have about -16 growth in 2020 according to your deputy minister of finance. When you get that 4% next year,that will mean you went back 16 steps and managed to move back by 4 steps. Too little.That's not growth, but just a little recovery.

Eskom?
Privatizing is not an antidote. You remember how Eskom performed in apartheid era? Eskom was one of the best companies worldwide, but it was wholly under government, and you had the cheapest power in the world.That show how Its possible to have a very efficient power generating company under government's supervision.The privatization of eskom will make power to be very expensive just the same way the cellphone companies like vodacom have been doing by overcharging everything

Firstly Its -6% not -16% ........So yeah there goes that argument.

Eskom was fvcked by the ANC administration I will admit that and fvcked in such a way that the only way to fix it is to privatize it. Secondly it is totally absurd to compare Eskom of apartheid and Eskom now as Eskom of apartheid only provided power to the select few, in fact by 1994 only 36% of South Africans had access to electricity......Today over 90% have access to electricity, thus the burden is exponentially higher on Eskom today than during apartheid.

The fact that IPPs can now sell power to municipalities and as well as the privatization of Eskom will in fact mean lower prices for electricity as there are more competitors thus more supply and lower prices.......Econ 101 my friend Also the National Energy Regulator will still regulate electricity prices regardless if eskom or who ever supplies electricity.

Shma:
by 2018 according to W.B we were at 75% were is the 70% coming from?
FYI out of 90% of total E.C in S.A around 20% of your population are likely to end up without electricity
During the old apartheid period a good number of people were told not to pay the bills (by the ANC) and the practise merely continued for some times. So it ended up living a huge burden to the natives.
The Consumers in Soweto alone ( suburb of Johannesburg) owe over 20 billion rand to Eskom - what will that have to say?, the lonely poor blacks who were fooled by ANC will now have to struggle with huge taxes to pay the bills and the defaults will end up losing it.
Your best is for the best(likes of you/boers) the rest are living miserable life the reason they don't want to see other blacks invading there country.
And yes S.A is ahead of kenya in nearly all aspects

Where did I mention anything about Kenya's electrification in this post? besides I said 70 odd % or something like that in my other post.

Also the rest of your post is just drivel

Just FYI the Average Black South African still earns more and lives a better life than the average Kenyan just let that sink in!!

jl115:

Where did I mention anything about Kenya's electrification in this post? besides I said 70 odd % or something like that in my other post.

Also the rest of your post is just drivel

Just FYI the Average Black South African still earns more and lives a better life than the average Kenyan just let that sink in!!

where did I mentioned better living in comparison with kenya?

I don't have any problem with black S.A either.

You said 30% of kenya population leave in total darkness which is a total lie.

jl115:

Firstly Its -6% not -16% ........So yeah there goes that argument.

Eskom was fvcked by the ANC administration I will admit that and fvcked in such a way that the only way to fix it is to privatize it. Secondly it is totally absurd to compare Eskom of apartheid and Eskom now as Eskom of apartheid only provided power to the select few, in fact by 1994 only 36% of South Africans had access to electricity......Today over 90% have access to electricity, thus the burden is exponentially higher on Eskom today than during apartheid.

The fact that IPPs can now sell power to municipalities and as well as the privatization of Eskom will in fact mean lower prices for electricity as there are more competitors thus more supply and lower prices.......Econ 101 my friend Also the National Energy Regulator will still regulate electricity prices regardless if eskom or who ever supplies electricity.