gregyboy:



You're simply misinterpreting what he said deliberately


However what he meant was his intention was to shed light on the fact that benin account insisted the artworks came from ife....
He criticized that idea ife artwork came from ife and he wasnt a tribalist who quickly jum To the offer.....

Even i was shocked to read about this criticism coming from a Yoruba man.........

When we see the truth we should say it regardless of who we identify with

There was no oranmiyan in benin

Even when the oba his insisting there is but the truth is slaping them at thier face

Again no matter how convincing a scholar could have written he will always leave room for doubts by other writers

TAO11:


And the only thing B. Lawal doubted here is the chronology.

He therefore proposed that the Ife people taught the Benin people bronze casting at a date latter than what was previously believed.

See below for a refresher of the embarrasment I made you face on this:
https://www.nairaland.com/5807254/politcs-behind-oduduwa-myth/2#88860914

TAO11:


And the only thing B. Lawal doubted here is the chronology.

He therefore proposed that the Ife people taught the Benin people bronze casting at a date latter than what was previously believed.

See below for a refresher of the embarrasment I made you face on this:
https://www.nairaland.com/5807254/politcs-behind-oduduwa-myth/2#88860914

TAO11:


Your illiteracy level is so high that you post the very things that refute the point you're defending.

You're defending a weird idea that Benin art was not imported from Ife.

Yet your attachment (on the same page) insists that the Benin art was imported from Ife (but at a date latter to the prior generally held date).

In other words, the author is simply making the case worse for Benin art by insisting that Benin art is not as antique as previously thought.


You've been refuted and embarrassed on this before (till you ran away), there is no point pretending. See link below for a reminder:

https://www.nairaland.com/5807254/politcs-behind-oduduwa-myth/2#88860914

cc: OgboAto

samuk:


I am throwing an open challenge to anyone here to provide any mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin written history between 1475 to 1875, a 400 years period. I will send that person $2000, yes one thousand dollars to cushion the effects of these lockdown.

gregyboy:



Even if i have a reasonable answer to give to this i would remain untill you learn how to speak

Get out......... You mannerless scornful fellow


Go and learn to speak to your elders first

gregyboy:



I told you stop quoting me


You mannerless human being that lack any iota of respect.......

Go and learn how to respect your elders before you can speak to me......

I pity your future husband

gregyboy:



You're simply misinterpreting what he said deliberately


However what he meant was his intention was to shed light on the fact that benin account insisted the artworks came from ife....
He criticized that idea ife artwork came from ife and he wasnt a tribalist who quickly jumb
To the offer.....

Even i was shocked to read about this criticism coming from a Yoruba man.........


When we see the truth we should say it regardless of who we identify with



There was no oranmiyan in benin

Even when the oba his insisting there is but the truth is slaping them at thier face



Again no matter how convincing a scholar could have written he will always leave room for doubts by other writers

TAO11:

I really understand your enthusiasm to defend your Benin Kingdom --- I really understand.

However, the big obstacle for you remains your illiteracy. So, I really wonder how you hope to achieve your goal.

An evidence of the fact that you lack any new content is clearly seen in the fact that even while been humiliated on your own inane challenge, you quickly swept the shame aside and resorted to repeating the very same thing that just brought you humiliation.

You brought no new argument, as you can't give what you don't have. You therefore resorted to constituting a nuisance rather than reply with something fresh.

At this point, if this repeated spamming persists, then I will be forced to call you to order by informing the mods of how you're repeatedly breking rule number 18 which states that:

"Don't spam the forum by ... posting the same content many times"

Thanks!

gregyboy:
[quote author=TAO11 post=89221047

samuk:


If you have cared to noticed, you would have realised that the content was different from the previous one. Whenever you mention Benin in your reply and I feel you have misrepresented the history of Benin, you will be challenged to prove your point.

You shouldn't expect to be making all sorts of claim about Benin and not expect to be challenged. You can answer your questions without making reference to Benin in your fabrications.

You can't keep writing about how Benin got this and that from Ife and expect to have a free ride.

If you make reference to Benin history between 1475 and 1897, you will be reminded that, there was nothing written in Benin history about, Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in the period in question.

For as many times you repeat your claim referring to this period, you will be reminded unless I don't see your post. You can't expect to continue to litter the threads and topics with falsehoods about Benin without being challenged.

You can concentrate on the period after 1920 when Benin and Ife history began, anything earlier than that will be challenged for actual eyewitness written accounts.

TAO11:


I'm glad you got the warning and took action.

And if lying to yourself makes you sleep well at night even in the face of the tons of humiliation you've got, then dwell in it. It's obviously a Bini thing.

But what I don't get is your claim that your Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick the boots of the Oonis of Ife for cheap political gains.

I can't beleive Benin Kings have been selling their heritage and licking Oonis' boots for so long!

Let's hear what you have to say to the reigning Ewuare2 who claims his predecessor (the first Oba of Benin) is from Ife --- timestamp 13:30.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvXupQwaz0&t=866s

samuk:


What warning are you referring to. Leave Benin out of your claims unless you can cite from the numerous writings on Benin history and point out the mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history between 1475 and 1897. It's a very simple request. Keep your lies to your Yoruba history.

OgboAto:


A civil response to my brash post? That was mature, I give it to you. I'll edit the expletives in my previous post. Note that, I reacted that way because of your dispositions in previous encounters. So apologies for the insults.

As for your response, you are the one who is misinterpreting. In history, when so much has been written about a subject that it seems over-flogged, there's usually a speculative angle meant to find gaps & raise a ? mark to indicate there's still something left out. This was what Professor Lawal did in that paper. He did not run with what Bini said about their art originating in Ife because he wanted the Bini to fix an error in their timeline of events & claims. If you look at the paper again, you'll see that he didn't necessarily say Bini art was homegrown either.

I won't lie to you, I personally place a question mark on the gist surrounding's presence in Benin.

samuk:

Stay out of Benin history of 1475 to 1897 unless you can back your claim up with eyewitness accounts.

You should know all about being banned. I am surprised you don't actually get banned enough for your foul languages.

You are at liberty to write whatever you like between Benin/Ife relationship starting from when it began in 1920, I will hardly notice you.

TAO11:


Lying to yourself that you've not being humiliated already (on your moronic "1487 to 1897" challenge) obviously helps you sleep at night. Otherwise, I wonder how you'll sleep.

And yes the spam bot triggers when a post is lengthy and contains many citations. You're not expected to know this. An illiterate has nothing to cite from.

The bigger question which I am shocked that you're avoiding is as follows:

Do you still insist that your Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick Oonis' boots for cheap political gains??.

I am asking this because Oba Ewuare2 (just like his fathers) is caught on tape insisting that his ancestor of old (the first Oba of Benin) was from Ife.

gregyboy:


And he also didnt conclude ife had brought the artwork to benin instead he disagreed on the benin narrative

Do you mean the gist surrounding ife in benin



We were never influenced by ife in anyway if someone say our oba came from owo it will look more presentable than ife


If benins could influence ekiti which is the closet neighbor to ife i dont see why they couldn't maintain a relationship the Portuguese couldn't see and write something about

samuk:


Benin royal oral history states that in the 12th century, a Benin prince Ekaladerhan found his way to Ife under difficult circumstances and the people who were at reverence about his princely appearance made him their Oduduwa.

In 1920, the Yoruba wrote their own fabricated version of Benin/Ife relationship which is the opposite of Benin royal oral history.

The Benin royal house disagrees with the Yorubas version and Yoruba also disagrees with the Benin version, there is stalemate because both versions are based on oral history.

My position concern the Benin written history between 1475 and 1897 that failed to mention Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife. My simple request is to avoid these periods when discussing Benin/Ife relationship. What's so difficult to understand.

I am not concerned about the Benin royal oral history and Yoruba revisionist version. You can claim all you like about Benin/Ife relationship as far as you avoid 1475 to 1897 because this period of Benin history was actually written.

OgboAto:


He did not give any conclusions. This is why the paper is regarded as speculative. The point however is that he questioned Bini's stories.

Are you even aware of the fact that ever since the Europeans began interacting with Bini since the 15th/16th century, it was the Bini who have told the Europeans they've come from Ife at different points?

Note that I did not say Portuguese, I said Europeans because after Portuguese, the British, Dutch, French & all sailors of different European nationalities visited and if you compare the accounts you'll see that the Bini themselves told the European their monarch & art had ties with Ife.

When colonial administration was put in place, the colonialists gathered native history to help them establish NA system. What your own people told the British then was that their monarch [and art] originated from Ife. This fact was reflected by your monarch in attending meetings of Yoruba kings; & one of them bringing a part of his dead father to Ife to make his enthronement known. It was what informed the grouping of Bini with Yoruba in Western region in the constitutional conferences. All of these & many other things your own people said & did was what informed grouping Bini with Yorubaland in the constitutional conferences.

When History became a thing in Nigeria, it was still your own people who told researchers at the time that you had ties with Ife. They told local & foreign researchers the same thong. The Yoruba/Ife only knew little about the whole Oranmiyan/Ogiamen issue & the Iguega gist. It was your own people who put all of that in the public NOT IFE/Yoruba people.

It was your own people who set off the gists about being connected to Ife & after the damage has been done, you all want to change story. This is why world over, scholars have regarded your new change of story has revisionism & not one scholar has thought of it as worthy of being taken seriously, not even scholars of Bini origins & there are a lot of them. And you'll be surprised that the first time your Ekhalederhan was published was in the 1970s & it has at different points continued to change with one Ekhalederhen being account different from the other.

The point here is, Bini started the whole thing. We were far away in the hinterlands when you were telling Europeans about Uhe at Ughoton port

TAO11:


Not minding your self-deluding repititio that you've not being humiliated already (on your moronic "1487 to 1897" challenge), are you now admitting that the Obas of Benin insists on a Ife-Benin connection.

What you're pretending not to understand is the implication of your claim of no-connection:

All your Obas insist on a connection, but you insist otherwise. The question to you which you're afraid of answering thus remains:

Why makes you think that all the Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick Oonis' boots for cheap political gains??

Having said that: In the course of the history of Benin Kingdom, the Obas of Benin have so far made two general accounts of the Ife-Benin connection known, namely:

(1) The classical one which simply states that Ife founded Benin kingdom --- thus agreeing perfectly with the ancient Ife account which may also be seen in the 1897-completed work of S. Johnson. I am not sure which Yoruba came up with Ife-Benin connection in the 1920s. Anyways, anything that makes you sleep at night is allowed.

(2) The modern one which chips in a certain Ekaladerhan and makes him one and the same person as Oduduwa.

Although historians have debunked and trashed the modern one about Ekaladerhan (Bondarenko, 2003:67-68), both accounts, however, agree that there is an Ife-Benin Ife connection.

So, I am patiently waiting for your answer on the bolded.

gregyboy:




See who is talking, yorubas history is full of revisionism

In one part youre correct please do you know how i can Double quote your writeup to explain my point accordingly

gregyboy:




See who is talking, yorubas history is full of revisionism

In one part youre correct please do you know how i can Double quote your writeup to explain my point accordingly

TAO11:


Not minding your self-deluding repitition that you've not being humiliated already (on your moronic "1487 to 1897" challenge), are you now admitting that the Obas of Benin Kingdom all insist on a Ife-Benin connection?

What you're pretending not to understand is the implication of your claim of 'no-connection':

All your Obas insist on a connection, but you insist otherwise. The question to you which you must then answer which you're obviously afraid of answering thus remains:

What makes you think that all the Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick Oonis' boots for cheap political gains??

Having said that: In the course of the history of Benin Kingdom, the Obas of Benin have so far made two general accounts of the Ife-Benin connection known, namely:

(1) The classical Benin account which simply states that Ife founded Benin kingdom and its present dynasty ---- thus agreeing perfectly with the ancient Ife account which may also be seen in the 1897-completed work of S. Johnson.

I am not sure which Yoruba came up with the Ife-Benin connection in the 1920s. Anyways, anything that makes you sleep at night is allowed.

(2) The modern Benin account which chips in a certain Ekaladerhan and makes him one and the same person as Oduduwa.

Although historians have debunked and trashed the modern Benin account about Ekaladerhan (Bondarenko, 2003:67-68), both Benin accounts, however, agree that there is an Ife-Benin Ife connection.

So, I am patiently waiting for your answer on the bolded.

OgboAto:


We're not in a contest of who revises the most, bro. I was just trying to tell you how Ife was brought into Bini history by your own selves
As for quote put the whatever you want to quote in between:
Make sure the text is between the

OgboAto:



That guy is poorly read. If he was well read, he would know that the European accounts of the 1487 to 1897 he seems to have so much confidence in is filled with records of Europeans writing that the Bini people said to different explorers that their monarch was from Ife. The number of European accounts rehashing the Ife origins of their monarch as told by the Bini is larger than the few accounts that spoke of different origins. When I find the European paper that regards the Ekhaledehn story as nonsense, I'll share.

samuk:


You agree that both Benin and Yoruba disagree on the origin of Oduduwa. Even the Yoruba themselves disagree amongst themselves about the origin of Oduduwa. I am not concerned about oral history because they can be misrepresented.

You forget to mention that scholars disagree that Benin and Ife had any connection in the first four hundred years of written Benin history. This is the period, I am concerned about.

I won't be surprised if you wake up one day and read about Benin history of Adesuwa and decides to claim Adesuwa as Ife princess, you will completely changed the history to Ife history and give us the Ife/Yoruba etymology of the name, Adesuwa, backed up with your usual copy and paste references.

You will start from Ade

then Su

Ti

Wa, and before we know it the entire history have been changed to Yoruba/Ife history. Your gullible Yoruba and Igbo supporters will agree with you and claim that the name must be a Yoruba name because of the Ade and Wa in it.

OgboAto:



That guy is poorly read. If he was well read, he would know that the European accounts of the 1487 to 1897 he seems to have so much confidence in is filled with records of Europeans writing that the Bini people said to different explorers that their monarch was from Ife. The number of European accounts rehashing the Ife origins of their monarch as told by the Bini is larger than the few accounts that spoke of different origins. When I find the European paper that regards the Ekhaledehn story as nonsense, I'll share.

samuk:


So you have the prove of the name Ife being mentioned in European writings of Benin history between 1475 to 1897.

Please provide such reference, the prize of $2000 is available for you to win. Please don't embarrass yourself by running away.

People have been waiting since yesterday for this revelation.

We are all patiently waiting for you to show us the European writer that mentioned the name, Ife in Benin history.

You that is well read, please impress us with your knowledge.

gregyboy:



Osayomre song adodo comes to mind


.... Lol youre waiting for insult if you push her to the wall she will come back angry and fire insult at you

samuk:


Is OgboAto a woman? She claimed to have the reference of European writers mentioning Ife in their Benin history between 1475 to 1897, don't you want to see the reference? Insults is how they get out of difficult situations
Benin were the ones who startedthisshit
The whole point is people will begin to see that there was no mention of Ife in Benin history for the first four hundred years and begin to question what they read about Benin/Ife relationship instead of just believing everything they are being told.

People may begin to correct a lot of the current distortions in Benin history. I don't know how any scholar will change Ogane from east to west. It's a shame not enough Benin writes Benin history. We just leave it to others to distort.