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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor (26456 Views)
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Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 4:30pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: And the only thing B. Lawal doubted here is the chronology. He therefore proposed that the Ife people taught the Benin people bronze casting at a date latter than what was previously believed. See below for a refresher of the embarrasment I made you face on this: https://www.nairaland.com/5807254/politcs-behind-oduduwa-myth/2#88860914 |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 4:59pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: I am throwing an open challenge to anyone here to provide any mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin written history between 1475 to 1875, a 400 years period. I will send that person $2000, yes one thousand dollars to cushion the effects of these lockdown. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 5:13pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: I told you stop quoting me You mannerless human being that lack any iota of respect....... Go and learn how to respect your elders before you can speak to me...... I pity your future husband |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 5:21pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: Even when i have a reasonable answer to give to this i would remain untill you learn how to speak Get out......... You mannerless scornful fellow Go and learn to speak to your elders first |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 5:23pm On May 05, 2020 |
samuk:I really understand your enthusiasm to defend your Benin Kingdom --- I really understand. However, the big obstacle for you remains your illiteracy. So, I really wonder how you hope to achieve your goal. An evidence of the fact that you lack any new content is clearly seen in the fact that even while been humiliated on your own inane challenge, you quickly swept the shame aside and resorted to repeating the very same thing that just brought you humiliation. You brought no new argument, as you can't give what you don't have. You therefore resorted to constituting a nuisance rather than replying with something fresh. At this point, if this repeated spamming persists, then I will be forced to call you to order by informing the mods of how you're repeatedly breking rule number 18 which states that: "Don't spam the forum by ... posting the same content many times" Thanks! 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 5:25pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: Thank God you didn't claim to have a reasonable answer. You're gradually learning to say the truth. I'll get you there! 2 Likes |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 5:27pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: But why will I stop quoting you when you won't stop lying? Stop lying and I will stop quoting you! Don't you get it? 1 Like |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by OgboAto: 5:39pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: A civil response to my brash post? That was mature, I give it to you. I'll edit the expletives in my previous post. Note that, I reacted that way because of your dispositions in previous encounters. So apologies for the insults. As for your response, you are the one who is misinterpreting. In history, when so much has been written about a subject that it seems over-flogged, there's usually a speculative angle meant to find gaps & raise a ? mark to indicate there's still something left out. This was what Professor Lawal did in that paper. He did not run with what Bini said about their art originating in Ife because he wanted the Bini to fix an error in their timeline of events & claims. If you look at the paper again, you'll see that he didn't necessarily say Bini art was homegrown either. I won't lie to you, I personally place a question mark on the gist surrounding's presence in Benin. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 5:45pm On May 05, 2020 |
[quote author=TAO11 post=89221047 |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 5:53pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: If you have cared to noticed, you would have realised that the content was different from the previous one. Whenever you mention Benin in your reply and I feel you have misrepresented the history of Benin, you will be challenged to prove your point. You shouldn't expect to be making all sorts of claim about Benin and not expect to be challenged. You can answer your questions without making reference to Benin in your fabrications. You can't keep writing about how Benin got this and that from Ife and expect to have a free ride. If you make reference to Benin history between 1475 and 1897, you will be reminded that, there was nothing written in Benin history about, Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in the period in question. For as many times you repeat your claim referring to this period, you will be reminded unless I don't see your post. You can't expect to continue to litter the threads and topics with falsehoods about Benin without being challenged. You can concentrate on the period after 1920 when Benin and Ife history began, anything earlier than that will be challenged for actual eyewitness written accounts. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 5:53pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: ?? |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 6:04pm On May 05, 2020 |
samuk: I'm glad you got the warning and took action. And if lying to yourself makes you sleep well at night even in the face of the tons of humiliation you've got, then dwell in it. It's obviously a Bini thing. But what I don't get is your claim that your Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick the boots of the Oonis of Ife for cheap political gains. I can't beleive Benin Kings have been selling their heritage and licking Oonis' boots for so long! Let's hear what you have to say to the reigning Ewuare2 who claims his predecessor (the first Oba of Benin) is from Ife --- timestamp 13:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvXupQwaz0&t=866s |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 6:13pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: What warning are you referring to. Leave Benin out of your claims unless you can cite from the numerous writings on Benin history and point out the mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history between 1475 and 1897. It's a very simple request. Keep your lies to your Yoruba history. Mention Benin with reference to Ife between 1475 and 1897 and you will be reminded that there was no relationship. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 6:24pm On May 05, 2020 |
samuk: The warning to stop spamming otherwise face a ban penalty. Are you that amnesiac to have forgotten how you cautioned yourself afterwards? Like I said, if it makes you sleep well at night believing that you've not being humiliated already on your moronic "1487 to 1897", then keep it up for your own good. Wait I am more concerned about now is your insistence that your Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick Oonis' boots for cheap political gains. Otherwise explain why Oba Ewuare2 (just like his fathers) holds strongly (as seen in the video below) that his predecessor (the first Oba of Benin) was from Ife. See: timestamp 13:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvXupQwaz0&t=866s 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 6:36pm On May 05, 2020 |
Stay out of Benin history of 1475 to 1897 unless you can back your claims up with eyewitness accounts. You should know all about being banned. I am surprised you don't actually get banned enough for your foul languages. You are at liberty to write whatever you like between Benin/Ife relationship starting from when it began in 1920, I will hardly notice you. I hope you take your own warning about spanning the thread with the same writing, images and videos. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 6:37pm On May 05, 2020 |
OgboAto: And he also didnt conclude ife had brought the artwork to benin instead he disagreed on the benin narrative Do you mean the gist surrounding ife in benin We were never influenced by ife in anyway if someone say our oba came from owo it will look more presentable than ife If benins could influence ekiti which is the closet neighbor to ife i dont see why they couldn't maintain a relationship the Portuguese couldn't see and write something about |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 6:44pm On May 05, 2020 |
samuk: Lying to yourself that you've not being humiliated already (on your moronic "1487 to 1897" challenge) obviously helps you sleep at night. Otherwise, I wonder how you'll sleep. And yes the spam bot triggers when a post is lengthy and contains many citations. You're not expected to know this. An illiterate has nothing to cite from. The bigger question which I am shocked that you're avoiding is as follows: Do you still insist that your Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick Oonis' boots for cheap political gains??. I am asking this because Oba Ewuare2 (just like his fathers) is caught on tape insisting that his ancestor of old (the first Oba of Benin) was from Ife. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 6:59pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: Benin royal oral history states that in the 12th century, a Benin prince Ekaladerhan found his way to Ife under difficult circumstances and the people who were at reverence with his princely appearance made him their Oduduwa. In 1920, the Yoruba wrote their own fabricated version of Benin/Ife relationship which is the opposite of Benin royal oral history. The Benin royal house disagrees with the Yorubas version and Yoruba also disagrees with the Benin version, there is stalemate because both versions are based on oral history. My position concern the Benin written history between 1475 and 1897 that failed to mention Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife. My simple request is to avoid these periods when discussing Benin/Ife relationship. What's so difficult to understand. I am not concerned about the Benin royal oral history and Yoruba revisionist version. You can claim all you like about Benin/Ife relationship as far as you avoid 1475 to 1897 because this period of Benin history was actually written and you will not be allowed to misrepresent the eyewitness accounts of this period. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by OgboAto: 7:08pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: He did not give any conclusions. This is why the paper is regarded as speculative. The point however is that he questioned Bini's stories. Are you even aware of the fact that ever since the Europeans began interacting with Bini since the 15th/16th century, it was the Bini who have told the Europeans they've come from Ife at different points? Note that I did not say Portuguese, I said Europeans because after Portuguese, the British, Dutch, French & all sailors of different European nationalities visited and if you compare the accounts you'll see that the Bini themselves told the European their monarch & art had ties with Ife. When colonial administration was put in place, the colonialists gathered native history to help them establish NA system. What your own people told the British then was that their monarch [and art] originated from Ife. This fact was reflected by your monarch in attending meetings of Yoruba kings; & one of them bringing a part of his dead father to Ife to make his enthronement known. It was what informed the grouping of Bini with Yoruba in Western region in the constitutional conferences. All of these & many other things your own people said & did was what informed grouping Bini with Yorubaland in the constitutional conferences. When History became a thing in Nigeria, it was still your own people who told researchers at the time that you had ties with Ife. They told local & foreign researchers the same thong. The Yoruba/Ife only knew little about the whole Oranmiyan/Ogiamen issue & the Iguega gist. It was your own people who put all of that in the public NOT IFE/Yoruba people. It was your own people who set off the gists about being connected to Ife & after the damage has been done, you all want to change story. This is why world over, scholars have regarded your new change of story has revisionism & not one scholar has thought of it as worthy of being taken seriously, not even scholars of Bini origins & there are a lot of them. And you'll be surprised that the first time your Ekhalederhan was published was in the 1970s & it has at different points continued to change with one Ekhalederhen account being different from the other. The point here is, Bini started the whole thing. We were far away in the hinterlands when you were telling Europeans about Uhe at Ughoton port 1 Like |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 7:25pm On May 05, 2020 |
samuk: Not minding your self-deluding repitition that you've not being humiliated already (on your moronic "1487 to 1897" challenge), are you now admitting that the Obas of Benin Kingdom all insist on a Ife-Benin connection? What you're pretending not to understand is the implication of your claim of 'no-connection': All your Obas insist on a connection, but you insist otherwise. The question to you which you must then answer which you're obviously afraid of answering thus remains: What makes you think that all the Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick Oonis' boots for cheap political gains?? Having said that: In the course of the history of Benin Kingdom, the Obas of Benin have so far made two general accounts of the Ife-Benin connection known, namely: (1) The classical Benin account which simply states that Ife founded Benin kingdom and its present dynasty ---- thus agreeing perfectly with the ancient Ife account which may also be seen in the 1897-completed work of S. Johnson. So, I am not sure which Yoruba came up with the Ife-Benin connection in the 1920s. Anyways, anything that makes you sleep at night is allowed. (2) The modern Benin account which chips in a certain Ekaladerhan and makes him one and the same person as Oduduwa. Although historians have debunked and trashed the modern Benin account about Ekaladerhan (Bondarenko, 2003:67-68), both Benin accounts, however, agree that there is an Ife-Benin connection. So, I am patiently waiting for your answer on the bolded. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 7:34pm On May 05, 2020 |
OgboAto: See who is talking, yorubas history is full of revisionism In one part youre correct please do you know how i can Double quote your writeup to explain my point accordingly |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 7:50pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: You agree that both Benin and Yoruba disagree on the origin of Oduduwa. Even the Yoruba themselves disagree amongst themselves about the origin of Oduduwa. I am not concerned about oral history because they can be misrepresented. You forget to mention that scholars disagree that Benin and Ife had any connection in the first four hundred years of written Benin history. This is the period, I am concerned about. I won't be surprised if you wake up one day and read about Benin history of Adesuwa and decides to claim Adesuwa as Ife princess, you will completely changed the history to Ife history and give us the Ife/Yoruba etymology of the name, Adesuwa, backed up with your usual copy and paste references. You will start from Ade then Su Ti Wa, and before we know it the entire history have been changed to Yoruba/Ife history. Your gullible Yoruba and Igbo supporters will agree with you and claim that the name must be a Yoruba name because of the Ade and Wa in it. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by OgboAto: 8:45pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: We're not in a contest of who revises the most, bro. I was just trying to tell you how Ife was brought into Bini history by your own selves. As for quote put the whatever you want to quote in between: |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by OgboAto: 8:46pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: We're not in a contest of who revises the most, bro. I was just trying to tell you how Ife was brought into Bini history by your own selves. As for quote put the whatever you want to quote in between: [quote][/quote] Make sure the text is between the ] [ |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by OgboAto: 8:56pm On May 05, 2020 |
TAO11: That guy is poorly read. If he was well read, he would know that the European accounts of the 1487 to 1897 he seems to have so much confidence in is filled with records of Europeans writing that the Bini people said to different explorers that their monarch was from Ife. The number of European accounts rehashing the Ife origins of their monarch as told by the Bini is larger than the few accounts that spoke of different origins. When I find the European paper that regards the Ekhaledehn story as nonsense, I'll share. 1 Like |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 9:08pm On May 05, 2020 |
OgboAto: Can you explain more or give a screenshot of it on the double quoting Thanks Again like i have said i am not blaming the ife people for claiming benin it was our oba who wanted to exploit the political opportunities he saw That is what i am trying to explain |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 9:37pm On May 05, 2020 |
OgboAto: Can you share the link of the European account who wrote on benin-ife connection before 1897 |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by TAO11(f): 9:41pm On May 05, 2020 |
samuk: No, the Benin royal account disagrees with itself. The classical Benin royal version says exactly what the Yoruba's maintain. But the modern Benin revision introduces a certain Ekeladerhan. So, historians came to rescue the intra-Benin disagreement by debunking the Ekaladerhan version. But in any case, the Benin royal account whether the original classical one, or the debunked modern revision both insist on an Ife-Benin connection. So in the light of this, my question remains valid as follows: What makes you think that all the Obas of Benin Kingdom are all liars, betrayers, cheats, deceivers, traitors, renegades, snakes, and mordern Judas with a faulty sense of dignity who sold you all for a miserable price by stooping low to lick Oonis' boots for cheap political gains?? The Ife-Benin connection have been documented in European writtings since over 500 years. I have alluded to that repeatedly that it has become like beating a dead horse. Your choice to pretend to be unaware of the humiliation you endured on that is only because such pretence helps you sleep at night. And lastly your "Adesuwa" straw (which you made-up by yourself and also attacked by yourself) testifies to the well-known 500 years gap between you and sanity. That indeed is your most pointless strawman logical fallacy. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 10:01pm On May 05, 2020 |
OgboAto: So you have the prove of the name Ife being mentioned in European writings of Benin history between 1475 to 1897. Please provide such reference, the prize of $2000 is available for you to win. Please don't embarrass yourself by running away. People have been waiting since yesterday for this revelation. We are all patiently waiting for you to show us the European writer that mentioned the name, Ife in Benin history. You that is well read, please impress us with your knowledge. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 10:37pm On May 05, 2020 |
samuk: Osayomre song adodo comes to mind .... Lol youre waiting for insult if you push her to the wall she will come back angry and fire insult at you |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by samuk: 11:08pm On May 05, 2020 |
gregyboy: Is OgboAto a female? She claimed to have the reference of European writers mentioning Ife in their Benin history between 1475 to 1897, don't you want to see the reference? Insults is how they get out of difficult situations. The whole point is people will begin to see that there was no mention of Ife in Benin history for the first four hundred years and begin to question what they read about Benin/Ife relationship instead of just believing everything they are being told. People may begin to correct a lot of the current distortions in Benin history. I don't know how any scholar will change Ogane from east to west. It's a shame not enough Benin people writes Benin history. We just leave it to others to distort. They are quick to refute Ekaladerhan being Oduduwa but when you point them to the fact that there is nothing about Ife in Benin history for the first four hundred years, they want you to accept Ogane in east as Ife even though Ife is west of Benin. There is an Igbo version that says the Ogane in the east is Nri. If not for the fact that Ife was not specifically mentioned in Benin written history until 1920, Benin history would have been unrecognisable in the next 50 years at the rate these guys are going. |
Re: Benins Were The First Educated Nigerians. Dr Okafor by gregyboy(m): 7:14am On May 06, 2020 |
samuk: The benins who wrote the history are they not the ones giving thier to the yorubas to manipulate Benin were the ones who started this whole shit particularly the oba when they all were still in the western region Orun oba ado was first mentioned by egharevba in his book the Yoruba took upon themselves to bring the myth into life And that's what we are facing now... |
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