Expert17:


Henderson got better statistics than Fabinho and Wijnadum this season.

He is the first name on Liverpool and England midfield...this is not the same Henderson you know.

Rank Liverpool players by their importance to the team this season

Expert17:
Liverpool

Touches= 2nd in EPL

Passes = 2nd in EPL

Through-balls= 5th

Clean sheet= 1st

Possession = 2nd

21 goals conceded so far

And the midfielders (Henderson and co ) are not good.... Analyst full nairaland

Awon Booker Pundit/Analyst

Expert17:
Liverpool

Touches= 2nd in EPL

Passes = 2nd in EPL

Through-balls= 5th

Clean sheet= 1st

Possession = 2nd

21 goals conceded so far

And the midfielders (Henderson and co ) are not good.... Analyst full nairaland

Awon Booker Pundit/Analyst

raumdeuter:


How else should he be appreciated? Do you think Wijnaldum is appreciated enough

Rank the Liverpol players by their importance to the team

For me I will rank , Mane Salah Trent Robertson, VVD, Alisson, Fabinho Wijnaldum Henderson in that order. This season I can relegate Alisson and Fabinho because of their injuries but there is no way Henderson has done more than all those.

If you dont rate Henderson as the best in Liverpool, how come he is "voted" the best in the league and that makes any sense

I will pick Wijnaldum over him

Just the same way Courtois won THE BEST GK at FIFA AWARDS in 2018 but De Gea was chosen ahead of him for the TOTY.

That's it......

raumdeuter:


How will you rate the Liverpool first 11 in their importance to the team this season. I am trying to see where Henderson will rank

My point is all these Henderson hype is media work not based on what he does on the field for Liverpool

Can anyone here who has watched Liverpool this season before the media hype say that Henderson was their best player when he watched those games

Mane was their best player, but Hendo was just as important as he is
Hendo dictates the tempo of the game for them, he offers more to both their attacks and defence, he was the pivot that team
check the games he didn't play and see how lfc were playing like Norwich

raumdeuter:


Rank Liverpool players by their importance to the team this season

Alisson. 7/10
Trent 8/10
VVD 8/10
Robertson 8/10
Mane 8/10
Salah 8/10
Henderson 8/10

Henderson is the most improved player among them, ..and also had major impact both in Defence, Midfield and Attack.....no other player had same impact, on all areas on the field.... Without him, they struggle.

Expert17:
Liverpool

Touches= 2nd in EPL

Passes = 2nd in EPL

Through-balls= 5th

Clean sheet= 1st

Possession = 2nd

21 goals conceded so far

And the midfielders (Henderson and co ) are not good.... Analyst full nairaland

Wait, dont you know that you can easily have lots of possession in games with less involvement of the midfield? Your defenders can always pass the ball around for several minutes before releasing it to the midfield or even the attackers. See the picture below for Liverpool players with their number of passes this season.


Meanwhile, can you show us 19/20 statistics for each midfielder at Liverpool (Wijnaldum vs Henderson vs Fabinho)?

raumdeuter:


How will you rate the Liverpool first 11 in their importance to the team this season. I am trying to see where Henderson will rank

My point is all these Henderson hype is media work not based on what he does on the field for Liverpool

Can anyone here who has watched Liverpool this season before the media hype say that Henderson was their best player when he watched those games

Henderson has done better than other midfielders in lfc this season, no?

nitrogen:


Wait, dont you know that you can easily have lots of possession in games with less involvement of the midfield? Your defenders can always pass the ball around for several minutes before releasing it to the midfield or even the attackers. See the picture below for Liverpool players with their number of passes this season.


Meanwhile, can you show us 19/20 statistics for each midfielder at Liverpool (Wijnaldum vs Henderson vs Fabinho)?

You cant have a possession based team without good midfielders,.... go check out the midfield of Arsenal then, Barcelona and Man city....

If not for the midfielders, you would have notice how liverpool backline is not that strong like you think ( Arnold especially)

Check the statistics attached.....Henderson played less than Wilnadum, but still manage to hv better records

He even had more Tackles, Interception, Blocks and Clearance than the so called Defensive midfielder...Fabinho

Fabinho no even follow,....Henderson beat him hands down in every single department

Expert17:


You cant have a possession based team without good midfielders,.... go check out the midfield of Arsenal then, Barcelona and Man city....

If not for the midfielders, you would have notice how liverpool backline is not that strong like you think ( Arnold especially)

Check the statistics attached.....Henderson played less than Wilnadum, but still manage to hv better records

Maybe you still dont get my point. See City's stats below. The midfielders lead in terms of number of passes, how come it's not the same for Liverpool?

When Wenger was still managing Arsenal, the midfielders led in terms of number of passes. I believe that most possession-based teams have good midfielders that makes a lot of passes in games. Liverpool's is different. One might be tempted to say that number games played matters, but I would say that you should consider total number of passes by each department (defence vs midfield)

Essentially, depending on the style, you can have high possession by having your defenders hold the ball and pass around for a long time.

nitrogen:

Maybe you still dont get my point. See City's stats below. The midfielders lead in terms of number of passes, how come it's not the same for Liverpool?

Essentially, depending on the style, you can have high possession by having your defenders hold the ball and pass around for a long time.

Maybe you will understand with a full complete season, when Man city are playing at the top of their game.

Defenders had the highest pass for them in 2017/18 and 2018/19 seasons

Expert17:


Maybe you will understand with a full complete season, when Man city are playing at the top of their game.

Defenders had the highest pass for them in 2017/18 and 2018/19 seasons

Do you want to start turning Amala like Dayo niii? Why did you post top 5 for a year and top 6 for another? Also, 2017/2018 season says something different. Otamendi was number one, the next three were midfielders.

Anyway, my point is, you can still have high possession with shitty midfielders, just get your defenders to do most of the passing, crossing, and providing assists to attackers. That is exactly what Liverpool has been doing in the last 2 years. Check their 2018-2019 stats.

nitrogen:


Do you want to start turning Amala like Dayo niii? Why did you post top 5 for a year and top 6 for another? Also, 2017/2018 season says something different. Otamendi was number one, the next there were midfielders.

Anyway, my point is, you can still have high possession with shitty midfielders, just get your defenders to do most of the passing, crossing, and even play through balls to attackers. That is exactly what Liverpool has been doing in the last 2 years. Check their 2018-2019 stats.

1. Liverpool play is different from Barcelona, Arsenal and Man city possession game,.......Theirs is coupled with intense HIGH - PRESSING

2. Defenders can have the highest pass in the team in a Possession team,.... because opponent sit deeper, giving defenders chance to pass the ball around, without any real pressure from opponent....... there are some games, Ederson (Man city goalkeeper) do have more touches than opponent players.

3. Maybe you should mention a team that played possession game, with shitty midfielders.......

This same season,... 5 defenders are in top 6 highest passers in EPL

Expert17:


1. Liverpool play is different from Barcelona, Arsenal and Man city possession game,.......Theirs is coupled with intense HIGH - PRESSING

2. Defenders can have the highest pass in the team in a Possession team,.... because opponent sit deeper, giving defenders chance to pass the ball around, without any real pressure from opponent....... there are some games, Ederson (Man city goalkeeper) do have more touches than opponent players.

3. Maybe you should mention a team that played possession game, with shitty midfielders.......

This same season,... 5 defenders are in top 6 highest passers in EPL

You are confusing yourself, the thing is this, if an opponent sits deep, then it gives your midfielders the chance to be more involved. Reason Barca and City midfielders pass the ball around a lot (and not just the defenders).

Klopp has always tried to bypass the midfield. What happens most times is that the defenders have more touches than midfielders because he thinks they are just there to help with ball recovery, they are not technical enough for the type of possession football that Barca and City plays.

Anyway, you are back to my point that you can have high possession by having your defenders do a lot on the ball. And to your last point, there are few technical midfielders in the EPL, also, the style is quite different, dont be suprised if you see midfielders dominate the list of passes in other leagues.

Expert17:


1. Liverpool play is different from Barcelona, Arsenal and Man city possession game,.......Theirs is coupled with intense HIGH - PRESSING

2. Defenders can have the highest pass in the team in a Possession team,.... because opponent sit deeper, giving defenders chance to pass the ball around, without any real pressure from opponent....... there are some games, Ederson (Man city goalkeeper) do have more touches than opponent players.

3. Maybe you should mention a team that played possession game, with shitty midfielders.......

This same season,... 5 defenders are in top 6 highest passers in EPL

A certain Arsenal with Santos, Mertesacker, Jekinson, Djourou

nitrogen:


Wait, dont you know that you can easily have lots of possession in games with less involvement of the midfield? Your defenders can always pass the ball around for several minutes before releasing it to the midfield or even the attackers. See the picture below for Liverpool players with their number of passes this season.


Meanwhile, can you show us 19/20 statistics for each midfielder at Liverpool (Wijnaldum vs Henderson vs Fabinho)?

Herbiedeen:

A certain Arsenal with Santos, Mertesacker, Jekinson, Djourou

Your defenders dnt need to be top class.....

Arsenal defence then wasnt top class

Barcelona defence wasnt top class, even till now

Man city defence is rubbish,,,,

I told him ooo, you just need good midfielders,

Herbiedeen:

A certain Arsenal with Santos, Mertesacker, Jekinson, Djourou

Lol. Thanks for this. Quite helpful, even though Arsenal never won trophies with those guys. But then, Wenger was able to dominate games with them, na low conversion rate kill Arsenal.

nitrogen:


You are confusing yourself, the thing is this, if an opponent sits deep, then it gives your midfielders the chance to be more involved. Reason Barca and City midfielders pass the ball around a lot (and not just the defenders).

Klopp has always tried to bypass the midfield. What happens most times is that the defenders have more touches than midfielders because he thinks they are just there to help with ball recovery, they are not technical enough for the type of possession football that Barca and City plays.

Anyway, you are back to my point that you can have high possession by having your defenders do a lot on the ball. And to your last point, there are few technical midfielders in the EPL, also, the style is quite different, dont be suprised if you see midfielders dominate the list of passes in other leagues.

You have changed the topic so many times

1. From comparing Henderson to Fabinho and Wilnajdum................... I did, you moved to

2. Midfielders shud have the highest passes in a team like Man city ( just this season, that is still yet to end)............. i prove you wrong with Man city best passers from the past 2 seasons and current best passers in EPL...................... you jump to

3. You dnt need top midfielders to be a possesion team,...

Mention just 1 possesion based team with shitty midfielders and i will mention 5 different possesion teams with shitty defenders

Expert17:


You have changed the topic so many times

1. From comparing Henderson to Fabinho and Wilnajdum................... I did, you moved to

2. Midfielders shud have the highest passes in a team like Man city ( just this season, that is still yet to end)............. i prove you wrong with Man city best passers from the past 2 seasons and current best passers in EPL...................... you jump to

3. You dnt need top midfielders to be a possesion team,...

Mention just 1 possesion based team with shitty midfielders and i will mention 5 different possesion teams with shitty defenders

Hehe, I am not a bush god, you already told me what I need to hear. See my initial post below:

nitrogen:


Wait, dont you know that you can easily have lots of possession in games with less involvement of the midfield? Your defenders can always pass the ball around for several minutes before releasing it to the midfield or even the attackers. See the picture below for Liverpool players with their number of passes this season.


Meanwhile, can you show us 19/20 statistics for each midfielder at Liverpool (Wijnaldum vs Henderson vs Fabinho)?

See what your response was:

Expert17:


You cant have a possession based team without good midfielders,.... go check out the midfield of Arsenal then, Barcelona and Man city....

If not for the midfielders, you would have notice how liverpool backline is not that strong like you think ( Arnold especially)

Check the statistics attached.....Henderson played less than Wilnadum, but still manage to hv better records

I just proved to you that Liverpool's midfield is the weakest of the three departments.

nitrogen:


Hehe, I am not a bush god, you already told me what I need to hear. See my initial post below:



See what your response was:



I just proved to you that Liverpool's midfield is the weakest of the three departments.

All the departments compliment each other perfectly. Liverpool midfield do their job perfectly which set the tune for both the attackers and defenders to operate perfectly. Why do you think Trent and Robertson bomb forward all the time. We have already discussed this here before.

spillo1:

LMFAO....Midfield is the most important part of the pitch for any team. Doesn't matter how good your attackers or defenders are, if you can't control the middle of the pitch you won't win consistently.

And Liverpools midfield is the epitome of consistent domination at the moment. They are so well drilled, so intelligent and fit. There was a moment towards the end where Henderson and Gini both sprinted the length of the pitch to counter attack, they were both the furthest back and then the furthest forward in like the 80th minute. I hope I am wrong but I see Liverpool burning out by next season.

Expert17 is right here. You can't play possession football without having technically-gifted midfielders who can hold on to the ball and pick a pass.

Liverpool don't play possession football in the truest sense of the term. Yes, they might have the majority of possession in most of their games but that is down to their quality as a team rather than any system or deliberate tactics. The best teams know how to keep the ball, pass it and control the game. The degree or the level at which they do it is what separates the ones that play actual possession football e.g Barca and City from the others.

eph12:

Henderson has done better than other midfielders in lfc this season, no?

Is doing better than any LFC midfielder = Doing better than everyone in Liverpool? Especially when midfield isnt the best department in Liverpool FC

If you say Walker has done better than Any City defender does that mean he is the best player in City?

nitrogen:


Hehe, I am not a bush god, you already told me what I need to hear. See my initial post below:



See what your response was:



I just proved to you that Liverpool's midfield is the weakest of the three departments.

Liverpool midfield that outplay/dominate/outrun all midfield in EPL

Liverpool midfield that support Arnold and Robertson defensively ( they are both average defensively)

This same Henderson have more tackles than Van dijk, Arnold, Robertson and the rest defenders.

If you dnt know, Liverpool midifeld is their engine room...... They can still win games without Salah or Mane by using Shaqiri and Origi,.... Let them bench those first choice midfielders and play

Henderson is barely in Fellaini's class. players like that, especially of English roots, will have an average season especially in a press-propped darling like Liverpool, and propaganda will cheer so loudly because they are actually surprised such player could play out of their skins to get to that semi good level. all these accolades and pressure is for people to recognize they've actually put in hard work. we know the mo, but the shameful part is that it's simply not good enough.

this is Darren Fletcher vs Jordan Henderson.
the season in play, Fletcher actually played out his skin to get to that level. we all know that was not a norm.
he put his heart and body on the line and was very inspirational yet no media cheered for him as player of the year. i'm not even sure he won player of the season for Man United.

for emphasis, this is his passing comparison with other players who had high output in passing stats for that season.
no propaganda machinery was rolled out behind him.

ChristineC:
for emphasis, this is his passing comparison with other players who had high output in passing stats for that season.
no propaganda machinery was rolled out behind him.

I can bring out 3 midfielders who had better statistics than Fletcher in 2009/2010.......

Bring out 3 midfielders who have better statistics than Henderson this season.

We are not comparing Henderson and Fletcher, but Henderson and other midfielders this season.....difference is clear

There are similarities and differences in the systems employed by Liverpool and City. Liverpool are a more direct side than City who would hold on to the ball for longer spells. They both play out from the back but in different ways. Liverpool fullbacks are actually wingers in reality while Man City full backs like to play on the inside. The Liverpool's midfield trio's job is simple： Recover and Recycle. No frills. They are to maintain balance and keep the structure. The fullbacks and to a lesser intent the front 3 provide the creativity. Vvd and some times Matip can bring the ball out from the back so there is lesser need for Henderson and co to drop deep. The fullbacks are also comfortable tucking in in halfspaces and central areas. Trent had his football education as a 6 so that helps in this regard.

All in all, it is unfair to say Liverpool midfielders are not good enough technically because they are not as prominently involved in their team's possession game. The system they play does not encourage this.

raumdeuter:


Is doing better than any LFC midfielder = Doing better than everyone in Liverpool? Especially when midfield isnt the best department in Liverpool FC

If you say Walker has done better than Any City defender does that mean he is the best player in City?

I never said Henderson is the best player in LFC. I dey craze? I only said for LFC to be dominating other teams, the midfield is certainly doing something right and Henderson is a huge part of that midfield. Then you guys say he's not the best midfielder in LFC this season. OK who is the best midfielder in LFC this season and why?

Expert17:


I can bring out 3 midfielders who had better statistics than Fletcher in 2009/2010.......

Bring out 3 midfielders who have better statistics than Henderson this season.

We are not comparing Henderson and Fletcher, but Henderson and other midfielders this season.....difference is clear

don't be too sure you'll find 3 midfielders clearly better than Fletcher that year without checking. i can put it to the test now and you'll fail flat.

next i'll hear is some of these guys below are strikers