Ecclesiastic 2: 14 and 8:15.

The book of ecclesiastic is found in the old testament and speaks so much about wisdom and life. My major surprise is that I hardly hear many Christians talk about this probably because they will say it is the old testament.

But when it comes to tithing, many church goers (who are definitely not true believers) will do anything to defend tithing as in the old testament and say Jesus didn't change the law of tithing. So my question is why do these same people see people that drink and enjoy themselves the way they like as sinners? If the Jesus didn't change the laws of the old testament in regards to tithing, how come the part of the old testament that clearly states that women should preach in the house of God is being changed by the pastors of today were we have women preaching in churches everywhere.

I am really curious about the way many church goers will end up in hell simply because of their lack of wisdom and this is the same wisdom this ecclesiastic is talking about.

Because too much of it make people to do things they won't ordinarily do

Both the bible and christianity is complicated

I’m not an authority in this topic.
Eph 5:18 says do not be drunk with wine where in it is excess but be filled with the Holy Ghost .

I believe drinking wine in moderation is not bad especially drinking at home. Going to bar to drink can lead to addiction to alcoholism.

Drinking should also be once in a while.
For other things you listed like tithe and the rest and attacking pastors will not do you any good.

Just write what you want on the platform of learning not to come here and attack pastors when you are not one. If you are not a lawyer you can’t interpret the law very well.

vickydankal:
I’m not an authority in this topic.
Eph 5:18 says do not be drunk with wine where in it is excess but be filled with the Holy Ghost .

I believe drinking wine in moderation is not bad especially drinking at home. Going to bar to drink can lead to addiction to alcoholism.

Drinking should also be once in a while.
For other things you listed like tithe and the rest and attacking pastors will not do you any good.

Just write what you want on the platform of learning not to come here and attack pastors when you are not one. If you are not a lawyer you can’t interpret the law very well.

I am not attacking pastors but I have heard many who condemn drinking. Yes drink in excess is bad because it can lead to evil deeds but when you hear them condemn it in total you have to wonder why they should do such.

SirNiko:
Ecclesiastic 2: 14 and 8:15.

The book of ecclesiastic is found in the old testament and speaks so much about wisdom and life. My major surprise is that I hardly hear many Christians talk about this probably because they will say it is the old testament.

But when it comes to tithing, many church goers (who are definitely not true believers) will do anything to defend tithing as in the old testament and say Jesus didn't change the law of tithing. So my question is why do these same people see people that drink and enjoy themselves the way they like as sinners? If the Jesus didn't change the laws of the old testament in regards to tithing, how come the part of the old testament that clearly states that women should preach in the house of God is being changed by the pastors of today were we have women preaching in churches everywhere.

I am really curious about the way many church goers will end up in hell simply because of their lack of wisdom and this is the same wisdom this ecclesiastic is talking about.

Drinking is not sin

SirNiko:


I am not attacking pastors but I have heard many who condemn drinking. Yes drink in excess is bad because it can lead to evil deeds but when you hear them condemn it in total you have to wonder why they should do such.

Among all controversial topics that pastors peach if alcohol is the only one you have problem with then you......

I have seen Christian's argue that the wine consumed in the bible was non alcoholic wine. Some of them even argue that the water jesus turned into wine was a non alcoholic wine....

Drinking is not a sin, Drunkiness is....
Some people tend to abuse it I guess that's why pastors rarely mentioned it.

vickydankal:
I’m not an authority in this topic.
Eph 5:18 says do not be drunk with wine where in it is excess but be filled with the Holy Ghost .
I believe drinking wine in moderation is not bad especially drinking at home. Going to bar to drink can lead to addiction to alcoholism.

BULLPISS!!!

vickydankal:

Drinking should also be once in a while.
For other things you listed like tithe and the rest and attacking pastors will not do you any good.

Again BULLPISS!

Mandela27:
Both the bible and christianity is complicated

It is not! The BIble is actually quite simple and straightforward. What complicates it is trying to listen to men tell you of what is contained.
If you pick up each book in that book to read as you would any other book out there, you will find that the messages contained is pretty straightfforward and uncomplicated.

SirNiko:
Ecclesiastic 2: 14 and 8:15.
The book of ecclesiastic is found in the old testament and speaks so much about wisdom and life. My major surprise is that I hardly hear many Christians talk about this probably because they will say it is the old testament.
But when it comes to tithing, many church goers (who are definitely not true believers) will do anything to defend tithing as in the old testament and say Jesus didn't change the law of tithing. So my question is why do these same people see people that drink and enjoy themselves the way they like as sinners?

@OP, many Christians don't even know the truth about tithes, so how do you expect them to know the truth of anything else in the Bible. Below is what God said that his people do with their tithe for the first 2 years. And note this is in fact a part of the old testament laws given the people of Israel

Deuteronomy 14 vs 22 -27 ERV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22 “Every year you must be sure to save one-tenth(tithe) of all the crops that grow in your fields.
23 Then you must go to the place the Lord chooses to be the home for his name. You will go there to be with the Lord your God. At that place you will eat the tenth(tithe) of your crops—one-tenth of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the first animals born in your herds and flocks. In this way you will always remember to respect the Lord your God.
24 But that place might be too far for you to travel to. Maybe you will not be able to carry one-tenth(tithe) of all the crops that the Lord has blessed you with. If that happens,
25 sell that part of your crops and take the money with you to the special place the Lord has chosen.
26 Use the money to buy anything you want—cattle, sheep, wine or beer or any other food. Then you and your family should eat and enjoy yourselves there in that place with the Lord your God.
27 But don’t forget the Levites living in your town. Share your food with them because they don’t have a share of the land like you have.

See where God tells the people that they should eat and drink(alcohol included) the tithe with their family and those who have none, for the first 2 years.

SirNiko:
Ecclesiastic 2: 14 and 8:15.
If the Jesus didn't change the laws of the old testament in regards to tithing, how come the part of the old testament that clearly states that women should preach in the house of God is being changed by the pastors of today were we have women preaching in churches everywhere.
.

As far as changing the laws, Jesus did not change the OT laws( a yoke of more than 613 statutes\commands - a very heavy yoke). What He instead did was fulfill the laws i.e. pay off the bill on your behalf. He instead requires you to take up his own yoke(a yoke with ust about 46 statutes\commands), which is easy, and carry his own burden(your cross) which is light.
Yes, in order to be a Christ follower, you must abandon the old laws and begin obeying Christ's own commands. According to Jesus Christ, and then John, those who claim to be of Christ but do not obey his commands, are liars and the truth, that is Jesus Christ, does not live in them.

1 John 2 vs 2-5 ERV
3 If we obey what God has told us to do, then we are sure that we know him.
4 If we say we know God but do not obey his commands, we are lying. The truth(Jesus Christ) is not in us.
5 But when we obey God’s teaching, his love is truly working in us. This is how we know that we are living in him. 6 If we say we live in God, we must live the way Jesus lived.

Kobojunkie:

As far as changing the laws, Jesus did not change the OT laws( a yoke of more than 613 statutes\commands - a very heavy yoke). What He instead did was fulfill the laws i.e. pay off the bill on your behalf. He instead requires you to take up his own yoke(a yoke with ust about 46 statutes\commands), which is easy, and carry his own burden(your cross) which is light.
Yes, in order to be a Christ follower, you must abandon the old laws and begin obeying Christ's own commands. According to Jesus Christ, and then John, those who claim to be of Christ but do not obey his commands, are liars and the truth, that is Jesus Christ, does not live in them.

The old law should include paying of tithes if am correct? Does that mean many Christians are disobeying Christ Jesus by still following the old law in regards to tithes? They condemn drinking because it was part of the old law but they embrace tithing which is still part of the old law.

Most people will perish because they lack divine wisdom {Hosea 4:6} God never condemned alcohol or alcoholic beverages!

@ Deuteronomy 14:26 God asked his people to drink alcoholic beverages in his presence!

But there is this man-made tradition that too much of everything is evil, so instead of concentrating on the word too much, most people will outrightly turn it to sin completely. God's word warned us about

FOOD~ Luke 21:34
MONEY~ 1Timothy 6:9-10; Matthew 6:24
WOMEN~ Proverbs 7:10-27
GATHERING~ Psalms 1:1

All of these their man-made tradition can't emphasize because they lack intelligence, it is alcoholic beverages that Jesus himself drank {Luke 7:31-35} that they'll be spewing gibberish over it!

Jesus explained that John the baptist came neither eating delicacies nor drinking beverages, the people said "John is possessed" but he (Jesus) ate their food and drank their drinks yet they say "a glutton and a drunkard a friend of tax collectors and sinners"

Please what type of drinks did Jesus drank in the presence of eyewitnesses before they could refer to him as drunkard?

Shey na Coca-Cola?

SirNiko:

The old law should include paying of tithes if am correct? Does that mean many Christians are disobeying Christ Jesus by still following the old law in regards to tithes? They condemn drinking because it was part of the old law but they embrace tithing which is still part of the old law.

Yes, they live in disobedience of Christ when they continue to live according to the old Commandments, ignoring Jesus's own words(truth) and commandments. But, it is what it is.

Another problem with their supposed adherence to the old laws is what many practise today as far as tithing is concerned does not even come close to God's stipulation as far as tithing is concerned. That verse there explains much of what God commanded the israelites to do with their tithes. How many people do you know of today that do exactly that?

One thing about each COVENANT( old or New) is there is an ALL OR NOTHING CLAUSE to them. You obey all of it, or you don't even bother obeying any of it. And do understand, the old law is still very much alive even today. For those who refuse Christ's sacrifice will be judged by the laws of the OT.

SirNiko:
Ecclesiastic 2: 14 and 8:15.

The book of ecclesiastic is found in the old testament and speaks so much about wisdom and life. My major surprise is that I hardly hear many Christians talk about this probably because they will say it is the old testament.

But when it comes to tithing, many church goers (who are definitely not true believers) will do anything to defend tithing as in the old testament and say Jesus didn't change the law of tithing. So my question is why do these same people see people that drink and enjoy themselves the way they like as sinners? If the Jesus didn't change the laws of the old testament in regards to tithing, how come the part of the old testament that clearly states that women should preach in the house of God is being changed by the pastors of today were we have women preaching in churches everywhere.

I am really curious about the way many church goers will end up in hell simply because of their lack of wisdom and this is the same wisdom this ecclesiastic is talking about.

First of all, I didn't see anything related to alcoholic drink in that Ecc 2:14 or you mean 24

Whatever verse you mean both Ecc 2:24 and 8:15 aren't LAW and nothing shows that the DRINK there was Alcoholic DRINK which Christian preach against, I guess that's your own addition.

Emusan:

First of all, I didn't see anything related to alcoholic drink in that Ecc 2:14 or you mean 24
Whatever verse you mean both Ecc 2:24 and 8:15 aren't LAW and nothing shows that the DRINK there was Alcoholic DRINK which Christian preach against, I guess that's your own addition.

What about the verses below from the very book of the law, where God tells the people to use the money they would have tithed to buy food and alcohol...

Deuteronomy 14 vs 22 -27 ERV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22 “Every year you must be sure to save one-tenth(tithe) of all the crops that grow in your fields.
23 Then you must go to the place the Lord chooses to be the home for his name. You will go there to be with the Lord your God. At that place you will eat the tenth(tithe) of your crops—one-tenth of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the first animals born in your herds and flocks. In this way you will always remember to respect the Lord your God.
24 But that place might be too far for you to travel to. Maybe you will not be able to carry one-tenth(tithe) of all the crops that the Lord has blessed you with. If that happens,
25 sell that part of your crops and take the money with you to the special place the Lord has chosen.
26 Use the money to buy anything you want—cattle, sheep, wine or beer or any other food. Then you and your family should eat and enjoy yourselves there in that place with the Lord your God.
27 But don’t forget the Levites living in your town. Share your food with them because they don’t have a share of the land like you have.

See where God tells the people that they should eat and drink(alcohol included) the tithe with their family and those who have none, for the first 2 years.

Maximus69:
Most people will perish because they lack divine wisdom {Hosea 4:6} God never condemned alcohol or alcoholic beverages!

@ Deuteronomy 14:26 God asked his people to drink alcoholic beverages in his presence!

But there is this man-made tradition that too much of everything is evil, so instead of concentrating on the word too much, most people will outrightly turn it to sin completely. God's word warned us about

FOOD~ Luke 21:34
MONEY~ 1Timothy 6:9-10; Matthew 6:24
WOMEN~ Proverbs 7:10-27
GATHERING~ Psalms 1:1

All of these their man-made tradition can't emphasize because they lack intelligence, it is alcoholic beverages that Jesus himself drank {Luke 7:31-35} that they'll be spewing gibberish over it!

Jesus explained that John the baptist came neither eating delicacies nor drinking beverages, the people said "John is possessed" but he (Jesus) ate their food and drank their drinks yet they say "a glutton and a drunkard a friend of tax collectors and sinners"

Please what type of drinks did Jesus drank in the presence of eyewitnesses before they could refer to him as drunkard?

Shey na Coca-Cola?

I wanted to allow this post of yours slide because of your usual talk of Jehovah's false witnesses being the "only group blah blah blah", but I changed my mind.

Let me show you how wrong you are which will prove that you JW aren't Bible students as you love to claim.

You quoted Deutoronomy with claims that God told his people to drink alcohol in his presence. Let's examine the verse.

Deuteronomy 14:26 (KJV)
And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Please, where in the verse above are people told to drink the strong drink/alcohol and in God's presence? Are the individuals also told to eat a full oxen or sheep? I wonder the size of stomach each individual had in Bible times .

The passage is not saying they should drink alcohol/strong drink. The alcohol and oxen are to be given to the temple which would be sacrificed to God. Have you ever heard of drink offering? Look below.

Numbers 28:7-8
Then the drink offering with it shall be a fourth of a hin for each lamb, in the holy place you shall pour out a drink offering of strong drink to the LORD The other lamb you shall offer at twilight; as the grain offering of the morning and as its drink offering, you shall offer it, an offering by fire, a soothing aroma to the LORD

As seen above, the strong drink is used for a drink offering to the Lord. That's why if you look at that chapter where you pulled out that Deutoronomy verse from, you will see that it is talking about offering to God aka tithe in a sense.

See more here: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Drink-Offering

It is only a Jehovah's False Witness that will say Jesus drank alcohol. Jesus never said such himself. He was only speaking of the false accusations people said about him and John the Baptist.

If you say Jesus drank alcohol, then you must agree that John the Baptist was possessed with a demon.

John was never possessed with a demon. So why do you believe that Jesus drank alcohol as coming from the mouth of his accusers?

So, Mr Jehovah's false witness, go ahead and guzzle alcohol as you like, but don't ever say the Bible supports it. Or is that what you guys go about preaching with your black bags?

Kobojunkie:

What about the verses below from the very book of the law, where God tells the people to use the money they would have tithed to buy food and alcohol...


See where God tells the people that they should eat and drink(alcohol included) the tithe with their family and those who have none, for the first 2 years.

Even listen to yourself, FOR THE FIRST two years...

So is this supposed to be something repeating over and over again when the time frame has been set?

Emusan:

Even listen to yourself, FOR THE FIRST two years...
So is this supposed to be something repeating over and over again when the time frame has been set?

Yep. According to the pattern set by God for tithing in the old laws, the first two years, you eat your tithe the way he has stipulated there in Deuteronomy 14...

Deuteronomy 14 vs 28-29
28 “At the end of every three years, you must gather one-tenth of your harvest for that year. Store this food in your towns.
29 Keep this food for the Levites, because they don’t have any land of their own. Also keep this food for the foreigners, orphans, and widows who live in your towns. This will provide enough for them to come and eat all they want. If you do this, the Lord your God will bless you in everything you do.

Kobojunkie:

Yep. According to the pattern set by God for tithing in the old laws, the first two years, you eat your tithe the way he has stipulated there in Deuteronomy 14...

You didn't get it go and read more about that!

Emusan:


You didn't get it go and read more about that!

Are you blind to what is written in your own Bible? God there tells you what He wants for you to do; you think this has to do with me?

Kobojunkie:

Are you blind to what is written in your own Bible? God there tells you what He wants for you to do; you think this has to do with me?

That's why I said you should go back and read about it, so that your eyes of understanding will be opened.

You can do research also!

Emusan:


That's why I said you should go back and read about it, so that your eyes of understanding will be opened.

You can do research also!

This is not from your bible?

Deuteronomy 14 vs 22 -29 ERV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22 “Every year you must be sure to save one-tenth(tithe) of all the crops that grow in your fields.
23 Then you must go to the place the Lord chooses to be the home for his name. You will go there to be with the Lord your God. At that place you will eat the tenth(tithe) of your crops—one-tenth of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the first animals born in your herds and flocks. In this way you will always remember to respect the Lord your God.
24 But that place might be too far for you to travel to. Maybe you will not be able to carry one-tenth(tithe) of all the crops that the Lord has blessed you with. If that happens,
25 sell that part of your crops and take the money with you to the special place the Lord has chosen.
26 Use the money to buy anything you want—cattle, sheep, wine or beer or any other food. Then you and your family should eat and enjoy yourselves there in that place with the Lord your God.
27 But don’t forget the Levites living in your town. Share your food with them because they don’t have a share of the land like you have.
28 “At the end of every three years, you must gather one-tenth of your harvest for that year. Store this food in your towns.
29 Keep this food for the Levites, because they don’t have any land of their own. Also keep this food for the foreigners, orphans, and widows who live in your towns. This will provide enough for them to come and eat all they want. If you do this, the Lord your God will bless you in everything you do.

See, God said nothing about giving it to your churches.

Kobojunkie:

This is not from your bible?


See, God said nothing about giving it to your churches.

Which still proves that you don't have a single understanding of the subject matter.

Like I said, go and do your research on Tithe then come back here to talk!

Emusan:

Which still proves that you don't have a single understanding of the subject matter.
Like I said, go and do your research on Tithe then come back here to talk!

Oh, you mean I am not twisting God's truth(which is written there in plain words for all to see and know) to create the falsehood you are so used to instead?
Research? You mean if I am not quoting the bible directly does not work unless I am making it say exactly what your particular lie you are used to instead?

Kobojunkie:

Oh, you mean I am not twisting God's truth(which is written there in plain words for all to see and know) to create the falsehood you are so used to instead?
Research? You mean if I am not quoting the bible directly does not work unless I am making it say exactly what your particular lie you are used to instead?

Then to you it's only Deuteronomy 14:22-28 is where Bible talk about Tithe....Oma se oooo!

At least try to do research on Tithe so that your dark knowledge can be enlightened.

Emusan:

Then to you it's only Deuteronomy 14:22-28 is where Bible talk about Tithe....Oma se oooo!
At least try to do research on Tithe so that your dark knowledge can be enlightened.

Actually, the book of Deuteronomy is one of the book of the laws, so, yes the details as regards tithing is spread across the 4 books(Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers), but not repeated. All that information comes together to form the whole -- the law on tithing.

So here is a task for you, find me evidence in the books of the law, or the entire bible that Contradicts what God says here in Deuteronomy 14(since you seem to think God contradicts Himself).

Kobojunkie:

Actually, the book of Deuteronomy is one of the books of the laws, so, yes the details as regards tithing is spread across the 4 books(Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers), but not repeated. All that information comes together to form the whole -- the law on tithing.

So here is a task for you, find me evidence in the books of the law, or the entire bible that Contradicts what God says here in Deuteronomy 14(since you seem to think God contradicts Himself).

He is an aspiring pastor stop spoiling his future venture

kimco:

He is an aspiring pastor stop spoiling his future venture

alBHAGDADI:


I wanted to allow this post of yours slide because of your usual talk of Jehovah's false witnesses being the "only group blah blah blah", but I changed my mind.

Let me show you how wrong you are which will prove that you JW aren't Bible students as you love to claim.

You quoted Deutoronomy with claims that God told his people to drink alcohol in his presence. Let's examine the verse.

Deuteronomy 14:26 (KJV)
And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Please, where in the verse above are people told to drink the strong drink/alcohol and in God's presence? Are the individuals also told to eat a full oxen or sheep? I wonder the size of stomach each individual had in Bible times .

The passage is not saying they should drink alcohol/strong drink. The alcohol and oxen are to be given to the temple which would be sacrificed to God. Have you ever heard of drink offering? Look below.

Numbers 28:7-8
Then the drink offering with it shall be a fourth of a hin for each lamb, in the holy place you shall pour out a drink offering of strong drink to the LORD The other lamb you shall offer at twilight; as the grain offering of the morning and as its drink offering, you shall offer it, an offering by fire, a soothing aroma to the LORD

As seen above, the strong drink is used for a drink offering to the Lord. That's why if you look at that chapter where you pulled out that Deutoronomy verse from, you will see that it is talking about offering to God aka tithe in a sense.

See more here: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Drink-Offering

It is only a Jehovah's False Witness that will say Jesus drank alcohol. Jesus never said such himself. He was only speaking of the false accusations people said about him and John the Baptist.

If you say Jesus drank alcohol, then you must agree that John the Baptist was possessed with a demon.

John was never possessed with a demon. So why do you believe that Jesus drank alcohol as coming from the mouth of his accusers?

So, Mr Jehovah's false witness, go ahead and guzzle alcohol as you like, but don't ever say the Bible supports it. Or is that what you guys go about preaching with your black bags?

Instead of all these counter post, just quote where God said "alcoholic beverages is evil" that's all!

Jesus surely drank alcoholic beverages, John doesn't eat delicacies nor drink alcoholic beverages like normal people that's why they said he had a demon! Matthew 3:4

Jesus eat whatever delicacies and alcohol beverages they set before him
that's why they accused him as a glutton and drunkard! Luke 7:31-35