For me, the book of Romans encapulates the whole gospel. Nobody reads Romans and remains the same. Romans is indeed the Constitution and bill of rights of the Christian faith. Romans is a Bible in the Bible. What do you think? Which book stands out for you?

seyi360:
For me, the book of Romans encapulates the whole gospel. Nobody reads Romans and remains the same. Romans is indeed the Constitution and bill of rights of the Christian faith. Romans is a Bible in the Bible. What do you think? Which book stands out for you?

You are wrong! The book of Romans is just a letter written to the believers in Rome. It does not tell you all about Jesus Christ( the new covenant), the blessings(about 7 of them), curses, commandments(about 46 of them), and seal that is the new covenant which is Jesus Christ Himself.
Please do not assume that by "worshipping" any of Paul's letters, you are obeying Christ.

I think it should be The book of Isaiah

Kobojunkie:

You are wrong! The book of Romans is just a letter written to the believers in Rome. It does not tell you all that Christ, the new covenant, tells you of the blessings, curses, commandments, and seal that is the new covenant which is Jesus Christ Himself.
Please do not assume that by "worshipping" any of Paul's letters, you are obeying Christ.

If you read my post well, you would have noticed that I began with "for me" thus it's my opinion and not an imposition.
However, since you objected my opinion, what's yours?

seyi360:
If you read my post well, you would have noticed that I began with "for me" thus it's my opinion and not an imposition.
However, since you objected my opinion, what's yours?

Do enlighten me then. What are some of the commandments you have been able to glean of the new covenant by reading Paul's letter to the Romans?

Kobojunkie:
Do enlighten me then. What are some of the commandments you have been able to glean of the new covenant by reading Paul's letter to the Romans?

Go and read Romans again, this time, patiently.

seyi360:
Go and read Romans again, this time, patiently.

I have read through Paul's letter to the Romans several times to make the claim that I made there.
Please point me to where you find all that is the new covenant is in fact detailed in that letter.

seyi360:
For me, the book of Romans encapulates the whole gospel. Nobody reads Romans and remains the same. Romans is indeed the Constitution and bill of rights of the Christian faith. Romans is a Bible in the Bible. What do you think? Which book stands out for you?

There is no book that have the complete gospel sir!!!! that's why we have different books and the help of holy spirit.

jcross19:
There is no book that have the complete gospel sir!!!! that's why we have different books and the help of holy spirit.

How many times have you read Romans?

jcross19:
There is no book that have the complete gospel sir!!!! that's why we have different books and the help of holy spirit.

Complete in what sense? Are you in search of a complete account of the new covenant that is Jesus Christ? Or complete in telling you of everything that Jesus did and every place that Jesus did from birth to death?

Kobojunkie:
Complete in what sense? Are you in search of a complete account of the new covenant that is Jesus Christ? Or complete in telling you of everything that Jesus did and every place that Jesus did from birth to death?

Romans. Romans is the last book written by Paul... Guess who Jesus sent Paul to... The Gentiles ... Romans is the book for us

Mydockay:
Romans. Romans is the last book written by Paul... Guess who Jesus sent Paul to... The Gentiles ... Romans is the book for us

Paul is not the only one who was sent to gentiles. Remember Peter, in Acts 10? He too ministered to a centurion and his family - gentiles. And where did the rest of the disciples go when they eventually left Jerusalem? Into the world, the gentile world.

Mydockay:


Romans. Romans is the last book written by Paul... Guess who Jesus sent Paul to... The Gentiles ... Romans is the book for us

and the rest is for who kwa? Lol na wa oo

Kobojunkie:

Paul is not the only one who was sent to gentiles. Remember Peter, in Acts 10? He too ministered to a centurion and his family - gentiles. And where did the rest of the disciples go when they eventually left Jerusalem? Into the world, the gentile world.

you are right, in addition Paul was held much responsibility towards the non Jewish nation, he was ordained by the leaders of the church at that time this responsibility, Peter received the revelation for the gospel to go unto non Jewish nations around their time and Paul was given special responsibility to carry that out.

RealEzee:
you are right, in addition Paul was held much responsibility towards the non Jewish nation, he was ordained by the leaders of the church at that time this responsibility, Peter received the revelation for the gospel to go unto non Jewish nations around their time and Paul was given special responsibility to carry that out.

Where do you think Philip went? Where do you think Peter and his family went (he wrote something about it in 2Peter). Where do you think the other disciples -- Andrew, Thomas, etc. ended up?
Sure, Paul's letters, or what was found in connection to his writings, are included in your Bible today, but that does not mean Paul was the only one sent out to the Jews.
The main gospel of Jesus Christ remains what is found in each of the 4 gospels. These remain the only real documentation of the new covenant for all those who choose Christ to follow

Kobojunkie:

Where do you think Philip went? Where do you think Peter and his family went (he wrote something about it in 2Peter). Where do you think the other disciples -- Andrew, Thomas, etc. ended up?
Sure, Paul's letters, or what was found in connection to his writings, are included in your Bible today, but that does not mean Paul was the only one sent out to the Jews.
The main gospel of Jesus Christ remains what is found in each of the 4 gospels. These remain the only real documentation of the new covenant for all those who choose Christ to follow

hope you get my drift tho, Paul was given responsibilty to take the gospel to those of the uncircumcision according to the Bible, more like a special assignment, was Paul in this alone ? Nope he had companions too but the specifics is that he was given this special assignment thru the revelation given to Peter.
Peter can be seen as the leader of the church after christ ascension yet still the church was guided by the revelations given to Peter by the lord,he focused more on the Jewish saints.
Most of the issues of the early church was between the Jewish members and Non Jewish members of the church then tho.

RealEzee:
hope you get my drift tho, Paul was given responsibilty to take the gospel to those of the uncircumcision according to the Bible, more like a special assignment, was Paul in this alone ? Nope he had companions too but the specifics is that he was given this special assignment thru the revelation given to Peter.

I understand what you are suggesting but the fact we have is that Peter, Andrew, Phillip, etc. were also sent out to gentiles i.e. the same uncircumcised Nations.
Paul already had a vision, likely many years before Peter's vision came, and yes, Peter's vision served somewhat as a confirmation of Paul's mission

RealEzee:
Peter can be seen as the leader of the church after christ ascension yet still the church was guided by the revelations given to Peter by the lord,he focused more on the Jewish saints.

Peter was not the leader of the church though. If you read through the book of Acts, you would see that the disciples shared the leadership role amongst themselves, I would guess in obedience of Jesus' instruction that they not act at the leaders of the world act.

RealEzee:
Most of the issues of the early church was between the Jewish members and Non-Jewish members of the church then tho.

When the Jews attacked the Christian Jews in Jerusalem, killing James, and several other Jews, were they not Jews against Jews? When the Jews attacked Paul did they think him a non-jew?

Kobojunkie:

I understand what you are suggesting but the fact we have is that Peter, Andrew, Phillip, etc. were also sent out to gentiles i.e. the same uncircumcised Nations.
Paul already had a vision, likely many years before Peter's vision came, and yes, Peter's vision served somewhat as a confirmation of Paul's mission
Peter was not the leader of the church though. If you read through the book of Acts, you would see that the disciples shared the leadership role amongst themselves, I would guess in obedience of Jesus' instruction that they not act at the leaders of the world act.
When the Jews attacked the Christian Jews in Jerusalem, killing James, and several other Jews, were they not Jews against Jews? When the Jews attacked Paul did they think him a non-jew?

Galatians 3
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

This scripture explains suggest that indeed Peter was the leader of the church and the gospel to be preached among non jews was commissioned to Paul by the hand of the counsel of Peter James and John who were the pillars of the church.

Other part of the new testament suggest this special assignment given to Peter to lead the church.
prior to christ death, christ told Peter that he will give him the keys of the kingdom, speaking collectively to the apostles with emphasis on Peter, Peter was the one who christ claimed the holy ghost indeed confirm to him that he was the christ.
Peter, James and John were the ones privileged to see the ancients prophets that administered to christ on the mount of transfiguration.

Peter was the one christ repeated told to feed his sheep after his ascension, emphasis on Peter, loveth thou me than this, feed my sheep.

Peter was the foremost among the apostles to speak up on the day of pentecost testifying about the risen christ.

Even Philip after teaching the people in acts 8 and baptizing them still had Peter and John who came over to lay hands on them, there is some sort of specialness to Peter having some sort of higher calling, like Philip was John the Baptist and Peter like christ having higher authority.

Twas the same Peter who received the revelation for the gospel to be taken to the non jews, of whom he in counsel with James and John ordained Paul to that responsibility.

Peter James and John in galatians are thought of as the pillars of the church as Paul himself suggests.
Even Paul after been healed by ananais could do nothing of himself except been extended that authority from the hand of Peter the chief apostle.



The church christ organized was led by revelation to his servants the apostles of which Peter was the chief apostle by virtue of the responsibility given him to led the church,feed the lord's sheep.

We can also infer that Peter served as the prophet of the church then, he falls perfectly into what Amos 3:7 says, the lord will do nothing but reveal his secrets unto his servant, the prophet.

Kobojunkie:

I understand what you are suggesting but the fact we have is that Peter, Andrew, Phillip, etc. were also sent out to gentiles i.e. the same uncircumcised Nations.
Paul already had a vision, likely many years before Peter's vision came, and yes, Peter's vision served somewhat as a confirmation of Paul's mission
Peter was not the leader of the church though. If you read through the book of Acts, you would see that the disciples shared the leadership role amongst themselves, I would guess in obedience of Jesus' instruction that they not act at the leaders of the world act.
When the Jews attacked the Christian Jews in Jerusalem, killing James, and several other Jews, were they not Jews against Jews? When the Jews attacked Paul did they think him a non-jew?

mind you Paul never received any revelation to take the gospel to non jews tho, only told he will be told what to do, you can see that at his encounter with the lord.

RealEzee:
mind you Paul never received any revelation to take the gospel to non jews tho, only told he will be told what to do, you can see that at his encounter with the lord.

What?

Kobojunkie:
What?

watermelon , but that's it na Paul never received the revelation to preach to the Gentiles, twas Peter n he commissioned Paul to that stead.

Act9
1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Nothing in Paul's encounter with the lord suggests he was told to go the gentile till Peter called him to that responsibility.

RealEzee:
This scripture explains suggest that indeed Peter was the leader of the church and the gospel to be preached among non jews was commissioned to Paul by the hand of the counsel of Peter James and John who were the pillars of the church.

You mean Galatians 3 vs 6-9 below? There is no mention of what you claim in it.

Galatians 3 vs 6-9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. The Scriptures say the same thing about Abraham. “Abraham believed God, and because of this faith he was accepted as one who is right with God.”[a]
7. So you should know that the true children of Abraham are those who have faith.
8. The Scriptures told what would happen in the future. These writings said that God would make the non-Jewish people right through their faith. God told this Good News to Abraham before it happened. God said to Abraham, “I will use you to bless all the people on earth.”
[b] 9. Abraham believed this, and because he believed, he was blessed. All people who believe are blessed the same as Abraham was.

Where do you find your suggestion that Paul's assignment was given him by Peter, James and John, who you assume to be the pillars of the church?

RealEzee:
Other part of the new testament suggest this special assignment given to Peter to lead the church.
prior to christ death, christ told Peter that he will give him the keys of the kingdom, speaking collectively to the apostles with emphasis on Peter, Peter was the one who christ claimed the holy ghost indeed confirm to him that he was the christ.
Peter, James and John were the ones privileged to see the ancients prophets that administered to christ on the mount of transfiguration.
Peter was the one christ repeated told to feed his sheep after his ascension, emphasis on Peter, loveth thou me than this, feed my sheep.
Peter was the foremost among the apostles to speak up on the day of pentecost testifying about the risen christ.
Even Philip after teaching the people in acts 8 and baptizing them still had Peter and John who came over to lay hands on them, there is some sort of specialness to Peter having some sort of higher calling, like Philip was John the Baptist and Peter like christ having higher authority.
Twas the same Peter who received the revelation for the gospel to be taken to the non jews, of whom he in counsel with James and John ordained Paul to that responsibility.

Peter James and John in galatians are thought of as the pillars of the church as Paul himself suggests.
Even Paul after been healed by ananais could do nothing of himself except been extended that authority from the hand of Peter the chief apostle.

The church christ organized was led by revelation to his servants the apostles of which Peter was the chief apostle by virtue of the responsibility given him to led the church,feed the lord's sheep.

I can see you have been doing a lot of inferring there.

RealEzee:
We can also infer that Peter served as the prophet of the church then, he falls perfectly into what Amos 3:7 says, the lord will do nothing but reveal his secrets unto his servant, the prophet.

There were many prophets in those day, by the accounts in Acts. And God spoke throgh them all as regards revealing his secrets to his servants. Does it not make sense that since God Himself(the Spirit of the Living God) lives inside all of His own, that God spoke to through and to them all?

RealEzee:
watermelon , but that's it na Paul never received the revelation to preach to the Gentiles, twas Peter n he commissioned Paul to that stead.

Act9
1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Nothing in Paul's encounter with the lord suggests he was told to go the gentile till Peter called him to that responsibility.

Yet you infer that he had a special assignment to the gentiles?

Kobojunkie:

Yet you infer that he had a special assignment to the gentiles?

where in the verses show he was told to unto the Gentiles na? Was he told to go preach here? You claimed he received some sort of revelation to preach to the Gentiles, even years before Peter, is that the case in this scripture?

Kobojunkie:

You mean Galatians 3 vs 6-9 below? There is no mention of what you claim in it.

Where do you find your suggestion that Paul's assignment was given him by Peter, James and John, who you assume to be the pillars of the church?
I can see you have been doing a lot of inferring there.

There were many prophets in those day, by the accounts in Acts. And God spoke throgh them all as regards revealing his secrets to his servants. Does it not make sense that since God Himself(the Spirit of the Living God) lives inside all of His own, that God spoke to through and to them all?

galatians 2:7-9
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Kobojunkie:

You mean Galatians 3 vs 6-9 below? There is no mention of what you claim in it.

Where do you find your suggestion that Paul's assignment was given him by Peter, James and John, who you assume to be the pillars of the church?
I can see you have been doing a lot of inferring there.

There were many prophets in those day, by the accounts in Acts. And God spoke throgh them all as regards revealing his secrets to his servants. Does it not make sense that since God Himself(the Spirit of the Living God) lives inside all of His own, that God spoke to through and to them all?

now you're confusing the calling of a prophet to that of the ministering of the Holy Ghost on all God's children, the holy ghost bears witness of gospel truths to all, yet the prophets role is to unfold these truth to all as it is his job to converne the will of God to all, he serve as God's oracle to all. All thru the scriptures in Bible you see the importance of prophets and their role to teach the people correct truths, administering the ordinances, admonishing the people about their sins and receiving revelation for the people at large.
You and I can receive revelation for ourselves but that doesn't make us prophets but only experiencing the manifestation of the spirit for our personal benefit not necessarily to general church at large, such is only revealed to the lord's prophet, and in this case Peter fits in perfectly as he received that which was for the church at large not just about individuals he encountered.
With Emphasis "feed my sheep" .

who after the ascension was given over responsibility the lord's sheep aside Peter, "feed my sheep"?

The scriptures show that none else received that revelation for the gospel to be extended to the gentiles except Peter, this was a pivotal moment in the church and Peter received this instruction, Paul was in turn set apart by the counsel of Peter James n John to take the gospel to the gentiles, that was Paul's commission to head that expedition.

Its no wonder catholics hold this claim dear that they received the authority from Peter and continued christ church,well that's some history tho.

I've overflogged this issue, sleep don come lol

Even the book of Genesis is more compacted than Romans.my point is non of the books is complete without the other.
A man can't be said to be complete with any of his senses/fingers lacking.

RealEzee:
watermelon , but that's it na Paul never received the revelation to preach to the Gentiles, twas Peter n he commissioned Paul to that stead.

Act9
1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Nothing in Paul's encounter with the lord suggests he was told to go the gentile till Peter called him to that responsibility.

I think we are deviating too far from the main topic at this point. I would very much like to get back to the main thread if you don't mind.

RealEzee:
now you're confusing the calling of a prophet to that of the ministering of the Holy Ghost on all God's children, the holy ghost bears witness of gospel truths to all, yet the prophets role is to unfold these truth to all as it is his job to converne the will of God to all, he serve as God's oracle to all. All thru the scriptures in Bible you see the importance of prophets and their role to teach the people correct truths, administering the ordinances, admonishing the people about their sins and receiving revelation for the people at large.
You and I can receive revelation for ourselves but that doesn't make us prophets but only experiencing the manifestation of the spirit for our personal benefit not necessarily to general church at large, such is only revealed to the lord's prophet, and in this case Peter fits in perfectly as he received that which was for the church at large not just about individuals he encountered.
With Emphasis "feed my sheep" .

who after the ascension was given over responsibility the lord's sheep aside Peter, "feed my sheep"?

The scriptures show that none else received that revelation for the gospel to be extended to the gentiles except Peter, this was a pivotal moment in the church and Peter received this instruction, Paul was in turn set apart by the counsel of Peter James n John to take the gospel to the gentiles, that was Paul's commission to head that expedition.

Its no wonder catholics hold this claim dear that they received the authority from Peter and continued christ church,well that's some history tho.

I've overflogged this issue, sleep don come lol

I lost track of where this is headed as well since you were beginning to confuse me about 2 posts before. Shall we please get back to the original discussion now, if you don't mind.

For those suggesting that Romans is not the most complete book in the Bible presenting the Gospel in it's entirety.

Complete in the sense that the subjects of sin, righteousness, justification, propitiation , redemption, grace, ethics, Christian and state relations and all a Christian needs to be in good standing with God are all enumerated , I'll like to know what Bible School or seminary you attended.

You may even think Bible School is not necessary, your opinion will change after spending 3 to 4 years to obtain a degree.

Because talk is cheap, anyone may come online and spill what they feel without backing it up with theological history.

This subject has been trashed by seasoned theologians, thus I see no basis for argument.

RealEzee:
watermelon , but that's it na Paul never received the revelation to preach to the Gentiles, twas Peter n he commissioned Paul to that stead.

Act9
1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Nothing in Paul's encounter with the lord suggests he was told to go the gentile till Peter called him to that responsibility.

This is not the only time Paul had an encounter with the Lord...

2 Timothy 1: 10. But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11. Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.[/b[

Romans 11: 13. For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as [b]I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans 15: 15. Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16. That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.