DexterousOne:



Devaluation works
When added with other policy measures

Devaluation is a good step, but does not work in isolation.


Greece and Italy are using the EUR
There is no way they will devalue the EUR because a few member countries mismanaged their countries


South Korea picked the IMF model and succeeded
Singapore picked the same model and succeeded as well

The Japanese Currency is weak as f**k but is backed by a solid economy.

The SAP failing in Africa is solely on Africa
We refused to do the right thing

And as for your talk on subsidies

What proportion of the income of western countries are used for subsidies?

Compare that with the heavy burden Nigeria and indeed other countries bear in subsidy

You cannot compare both


Not everything is about neo colonialism

If you as a people refuse to do what's right and use your brain, you'll pay dearly for it

If having a regional currency provides a buffer to European countries from individual shocks then why do they prevent Africa from doing the same? Emmanuel Macron spent last year's Christmas in Africa where he hijacked the proposed West African single currency ECO by renaming the CFA franc to ECO, with the help of his stooge, Alassane Ouattara of the Ivory Coast. The ECO was due to be launched in 2020 and talks have been going on for years. As a form of bribe, he conceded that Francophone African countries need not save 50% of their foreign exchange in the French central bank anymore. Do you know that French speaking African countries still pay Colonization tax to France till this day?

The Asian Tigers did not grow merely by adopting IMF policies, that is false. They were propped up by the West as a form of checkmating the influence of the Soviet Union in the region during the cold war. They enjoyed things like technology transfer, foreign aid, investments, access to the large western markets and some elements of protectionism to enable them grow. None of these were due to devaluation. Africa didn't enjoy all of these because we were already more or less conquered and the incentive to lure us away from the Soviets was not there. Japan even had to pay a huge sum of money to South Korea as restitution for having occupied their country. Where is the restitution from the West for both slave trade and colonialism? Instead, we are the ones paying restitution to them.

Historically, the West had to adopt protectionism to grow some of their industries but today, any country attempting to do the same will be immediately crippled through sanctions and tariffs. I ask again, why should devaluation be our only economic strategy as Africans?

China today is being vilified by the West simply because they now see them as an economic threat, whereas the wealth of American capitalists was built on cheap labour from Chinese workers. They are now threatening to pull their industries from China which is a little too late as the cost of labour in China is beginning to rise due to their rising middle class. India and Vietnam is the next destination for cheap labour and even some Chinese businesses are beginning to outsource some of its production to Vietnam in preparation for the gradual phasing of China into a service based economy as is obtainable in America and Britain. Every country or region should be allowed to phase its own path free from encumbrances.

chigo4u:

Is it local or offshore transfer?

Local

AMINDA:


If having a regional currency provides a buffer to European countries from individual shocks then why do they prevent Africa from doing the same? Emmanuel Macron spent last year's Christmas in Africa where he hijacked the proposed West African single currency ECO by renaming the CFA franc to ECO, with the help of his stooge, Alassane Ouattara of the Ivory Coast. The ECO was due to be launched in 2020 and talks have been going on for years. As a form of bribe, he conceded that Francophone African countries need not save 50% of their foreign exchange in the French central bank anymore. Do you know that French speaking African countries still pay Colonization tax to France till this day?

The Asian Tigers did not grow merely by adopting IMF policies, that is false. They were propped up by the West as a form of checkmating the influence of the Soviet Union in the region during the cold war. They enjoyed things like technology transfer, foreign aid, investments, access to the large western markets and some elements of protectionism to enable them grow. None of these were due to devaluation. Africa didn't enjoy all of these because we were already more or less conquered and the incentive to lure us away from the Soviets was not there. Japan even had to pay a huge sum of money to South Korea as restitution for having occupied their country. Where is the restitution from the West for both slave trade and colonialism? Instead, we are the ones paying restitution to them.

Historically, the West had to adopt protectionism to grow some of their industries but today, any country attempting to do the same will be immediately crippled through sanctions and tariffs. I ask again, why should devaluation be our only economic strategy as Africans?

China today is being vilified by the West simply because they now see them as an economic threat, whereas the wealth of American capitalists was built on cheap labour from Chinese workers. They are now threatening to pull their industries from China which is a little too late as the cost of labour in China is beginning to rise due to their rising middle class. India and Vietnam is the next destination for cheap labour and even some Chinese businesses are beginning to outsource some of its production to Vietnam in preparation for the gradual phasing of China into a service based economy as is obtainable in America and Britain. Every country or region should be allowed to phase its own path free from encumbrances.

No one is stopping anyone from making the moves towards development...


As for the ECO fiasco,
You blame some of the francophone elite for that
Not France

I have worked with these people, and I know first hand, their psychology and how they think...

They are not ready to stand as men yet, and are still addicted to the comfort Françafrique brings them.


Africa is the one sabotaging itself
Plain and simple

DexterousOne:



No one is stopping anyone from making the moves towards development...


As for the ECO fiasco,
You blame some of the francophone elite for that
Not France

I have worked with these people, and I know first hand, their psychology and how they think...

They are not ready to stand as men yet, and are still addicted to the comfort Françafrique brings them.


Africa is the one sabotaging itself
Plain and simple

Comfort? Are you having a laugh? Historically, Africa is not in short supply of leaders who stood up as men. These leaders all have one thing in common though, they are all late! And no, they didn't die from old age.

AMINDA:


If having a regional currency provides a buffer to European countries from individual shocks then why do they prevent Africa from doing the same? Emmanuel Macron spent last year's Christmas in Africa where he hijacked the proposed West African single currency ECO by renaming the CFA franc to ECO, with the help of his stooge, Alassane Ouattara of the Ivory Coast. The ECO was due to be launched in 2020 and talks have been going on for years. As a form of bribe, he conceded that Francophone African countries need not save 50% of their foreign exchange in the French central bank anymore. Do you know that French speaking African countries still pay Colonization tax to France till this day?

The Asian Tigers did not grow merely by adopting IMF policies, that is false. They were propped up by the West as a form of checkmating the influence of the Soviet Union in the region during the cold war. They enjoyed things like technology transfer, foreign aid, investments, access to the large western markets and some elements of protectionism to enable them grow. None of these were due to devaluation. Africa didn't enjoy all of these because we were already more or less conquered and the incentive to lure us away from the Soviets was not there. Japan even had to pay a huge sum of money to South Korea as restitution for having occupied their country. Where is the restitution from the West for both slave trade and colonialism? Instead, we are the ones paying restitution to them.

Historically, the West had to adopt protectionism to grow some of their industries but today, any country attempting to do the same will be immediately crippled through sanctions and tariffs. I ask again, why should devaluation be our only economic strategy as Africans?

China today is being vilified by the West simply because they now see them as an economic threat, whereas the wealth of American capitalists was built on cheap labour from Chinese workers. They are now threatening to pull their industries from China which is a little too late as the cost of labour in China is beginning to rise due to their rising middle class. India and Vietnam is the next destination for cheap labour and even some Chinese businesses are beginning to outsource some of its production to Vietnam in preparation for the gradual phasing of China into a service based economy as is obtainable in America and Britain. Every country or region should be allowed to phase its own path free from encumbrances.

If Nigeria does not float its currency at least
And continue to waste its money on subsidies (on petrol and on the currency)
Nigeria will remain a shithole for decades to come


Structural Adjustment Program is NOT a bad program in itself


We are not just ready to do what is needful to make that paradigm shift


In typical African fashion, we are looking to blame the Europeans or some imperialist for our problems and foolishness


Let Nigeria continue on this path
Let's see what Nigeria fate will be in 30 years from today

AMINDA:

Comfort? Are you having a laugh? Historically, Africa is not in short supply of leaders who stood up as men. These leaders all have one thing in common though, they are all late! And no, they didn't die from old age.

You dont know how Françafrique came to be

And how it is widely accepted by the elite in these countries.
You dont

I have lived and worked in these countries
Françafrique is not something their elite class want to leg go.
As for the masses on the street, it's a different story.


What if I told you that it was African leaders that has the most input in that shameful document ?
Will you agree?

You wont

Yet those same people who like the arrangement in secret will be vilifyiing France

Even countries that were not colonised by france (about two of them) love the arrangement (cos they are stupid and lazy) and signed on to it.

That's one thing I have to praise Nigeria for anyways

No matter how useless our elite is
They will never agree draft or ratify such document

AMINDA:


If having a regional currency provides a buffer to European countries from individual shocks then why do they prevent Africa from doing the same? Emmanuel Macron spent last year's Christmas in Africa where he hijacked the proposed West African single currency ECO by renaming the CFA franc to ECO, with the help of his stooge, Alassane Ouattara of the Ivory Coast. The ECO was due to be launched in 2020 and talks have been going on for years. As a form of bribe, he conceded that Francophone African countries need not save 50% of their foreign exchange in the French central bank anymore. Do you know that French speaking African countries still pay Colonization tax to France till this day?

The Asian Tigers did not grow merely by adopting IMF policies, that is false. They were propped up by the West as a form of checkmating the influence of the Soviet Union in the region during the cold war. They enjoyed things like technology transfer, foreign aid, investments, access to the large western markets and some elements of protectionism to enable them grow. None of these were due to devaluation. Africa didn't enjoy all of these because we were already more or less conquered and the incentive to lure us away from the Soviets was not there. Japan even had to pay a huge sum of money to South Korea as restitution for having occupied their country. Where is the restitution from the West for both slave trade and colonialism? Instead, we are the ones paying restitution to them.

Historically, the West had to adopt protectionism to grow some of their industries but today, any country attempting to do the same will be immediately crippled through sanctions and tariffs. I ask again, why should devaluation be our only economic strategy as Africans?

China today is being vilified by the West simply because they now see them as an economic threat, whereas the wealth of American capitalists was built on cheap labour from Chinese workers. They are now threatening to pull their industries from China which is a little too late as the cost of labour in China is beginning to rise due to their rising middle class. India and Vietnam is the next destination for cheap labour and even some Chinese businesses are beginning to outsource some of its production to Vietnam in preparation for the gradual phasing of China into a service based economy as is obtainable in America and Britain. Every country or region should be allowed to phase its own path free from encumbrances.

We are our own problem not the west that you are alluding to.
We have been on this single currency in West Africa for how many years that I cannot understand why anyone will say it is France that is the problem.
Do we trust ourselves in Africa.
How many countries in west Africa have even met the pre qualification requirements that were set by ECOWAS for adoption of a single currency.
Is it France that is stopping us from meeting those requirements for how many years now?

AMINDA:

Comfort? Are you having a laugh? Historically, Africa is not in short supply of leaders who stood up as men. These leaders all have one thing in common though, they are all late! And no, they didn't die from old age.

And they were also eliminated by the same elite who were not ready to lose that comfort

If you go to Dakar, what you will hear from the central bank quarters there will make you weep as an African (Nigerian)

They are not willing to do what is needed

Ouattara is not ready to lose his privileges and that is why he was working overtime to try to find a middle ground for the ECO experiment (which btw I dont support Nigeria to adopt)

The Beninois president boldly asked France for its money back (after Nigeria locked the borders and it was dealing with them lol)
And he stood like a man and got his country money back.



Like I always say
Africans (especially the elite class) are not ready for development

pluto09:



We are our own problem not the west that you are alluding to.
We have been on this single currency in West Africa for how many years that I cannot understand why anyone will say it is France that is the problem.
Do we trust ourselves in Africa.
How many countries in west Africa have even met the pre qualification requirements that were set by ECOWAS for adoption of a single currency.
Is it France that is stopping us from meeting those requirements for how many years now?

I will tell you this confidently
Many of those countries are not serious

How can you have a central bank
And you dont want to be involved with the policy drafting and implementation?
Why then are you wearing suit and going to office


It's very easy to point accusing fingers at the west

But in reality
Its africans who CHOSE to be stupid

DexterousOne:



If Nigeria does not float its currency at least
And continue to waste its money on subsidies (on petrol and on the currency)
Nigeria will remain a shithole for decades to come


Structural Adjustment Program is NOT a bad program in itself


We are not just ready to do what is needful to make that paradigm shift


In typical African fashion, we are looking to blame the Europeans or some imperialist for our problems and foolishness


Let Nigeria continue on this path
Let's see what Nigeria fate will be in 30 years from today

I cannot understand why people think we should continue to spend the money we don't have to defend the naira and spend on subsidies.
Anytime, there is fall in oil price,we will go to the west to beg and borrow money(dollars).
We will later turn around and blame them for our woes after we have squandered the money on frivolities.

DexterousOne:



You dont know how Françafrique came to be

And how it is widely accepted by the elite in these countries.
You dont

I have lived and worked in these countries
Françafrique is not something their elite class want to leg go.
As for the masses on the street, it's a different story.


What if I told you that it was African leaders that has the most input in that shameful document ?
Will you agree?

You wont

Yet those same people who like the arrangement in secret will be vilifyiing France

Even countries that were not colonised by france (about two of them) love the arrangement (cos they are stupid and lazy) and signed on to it.

That's one thing I have to praise Nigeria for anyways

No matter how useless our elite is
They will never agree draft or ratify such document

You are surprised that the stooges that France propped up and rigged into offices are still stooges?

French speaking African countries are so comfortable that they deposit their foreign exchanges in the French Central Bank? They are so comfortable that they continue to pay colonization tax to France several years after "Independence"? No, they simply don't have a choice. Have you ever wondered why France has such a huge military presence in the French speaking African countries? The truth is France never gave these countries their independence.

Thank your stars Nigeria wasn't colonized by the French. The West are not entirely to blame for the precarious situation Africa finds itself but I am not naive enough to not see the huge negative impact they had and still have on African countries. I prefer to see the bigger picture.

pluto09:



I cannot understand why people think we should continue to spend the money we don't have to defend the naira and spend on subsidies.
Anytime, there is fall in oil price,we will go to the west to beg and borrow money(dollars).
We will later turn around and blame them for our woes after we have squandered the money on frivolities.

Please help me ask them o.

Is that how other countries developed?

There is a price to pay for the development of the country

We are not ready to pay the price


That man is even alluding the development of all those Asian countries principally on Western Input
When they worked so hard to get to where they are

Yes
Western capital flowed in to exploit opportunities (like is the norm)
But that's about it


Africa has been sending students abroad for decades
What use have they been to Nigeria?

Others go out there and steal tech/patents and send back to their countries (this racket btw is coordinated from the embassy as the central command)

No one will lose his hard earned advantage easily
You have to pay the price for it


Instead our students are busy collecting the certificate to look for employment
And the diplomats are there foolish, enjoying life and living a life of debauchery

The aim of our uncles back in the day was to go grab certificate abroad and then come back and work for a useless, unproductive civil service buoyed by oil revenues we had no control over

While our mates in the Asian world were looking to implement what they learnt abroad to an extent in their respective countries

We had our head start
We blew it....

Now we are looking for who to blame

AMINDA:


You are surprised that the stooges that France propped up and rigged into offices are still stooges?

French speaking African countries are so comfortable that they deposit their foreign exchanges in the French Central Bank? They are so comfortable that they continue to pay colonization tax to France several years after "Independence"? No, they simply don't have a choice. Have you ever wondered why France has such a huge military presence in the French speaking African countries? The truth is France never gave these countries their independence.

Thank your stars Nigeria wasn't colonized by the French. The West are not entirely to blame for the precarious situation Africa finds itself but I am not naive enough to not see the huge negative impact they had and still have on African countries. I prefer to see the bigger picture.

Do you know the benefit the arrangement gives these African elite class?

Even without french in the way
They will KILL anyone that want to remove them from that comfort that they get from Françafrique (which btw was largely drafted by them in the first place)


Forget what you are reading on the blogs
I saw the underhand operations
And I was disgusted

AMINDA:


You are surprised that the stooges that France propped up and rigged into offices are still stooges?

French speaking African countries are so comfortable that they deposit their foreign exchanges in the French Central Bank? They are so comfortable that they continue to pay colonization tax to France several years after "Independence"? No, they simply don't have a choice. Have you ever wondered why France has such a huge military presence in the French speaking African countries? The truth is France never gave these countries their independence.

Thank your stars Nigeria wasn't colonized by the French. The West are not entirely to blame for the precarious situation Africa finds itself but I am not naive enough to not see the huge negative impact they had and still have on African countries. I prefer to see the bigger picture.

If you want ne to dissect this Françafrique thing and how it was designed to enrich the elite in both France and Africa, when I am less busy
I will deconstruct some of the elements when I am free

I used to think like you

But when I got a sneak peek into the system
I was weak

DexterousOne:


If you want ne to dissect this Françafrique thing and how it was designed to enrich the elite in both France and Africa, when I am less busy
I will deconstruct some of the elements when I am free

I used to think like you

But when I got a sneak peek into the system
I was weak

I know there's only a thing line between economics and politics and I don't want to cross it further, as this is clearly an Investment thread.

You keep talking of the "Elite". America is about to remove Maduro and install another "Elite" in person of Juan Guaido in Venezuela. They may succeed and then, when they become bed fellows, you'll be here to say how much Guaido enjoys the comfort of his oppressors to the detriment of his people.

I'm done talking.

AMINDA:


I know there's only a thing line between economics and politics and I don't want to cross it further, as this is clearly an Investment thread.

You keep talking of the "Elite". America is about to remove Maduro and install another "Elite" in person of Juan Guaido in Venezuela. They may succeed and then, when they become bed fellows, you'll be here to say how much Guaido enjoys the comfort of his oppressors to the detriment of his people.

I'm done talking.

When I an referring to elite

I'm not talking about the president
I'm talking of the special interests and the elite in these countries

I'll tell you this for a fact
If you stand in their way (as what happened to Sankara with his reforms) even before France telling them to, you are already a dead man.

If those ELF documents were leaked and not hurriedly sealed with their merger with total, the world would have seen the can of worms and a lot of them (both in france and Africa) would have been implicated.


I dont know much about Venezuela
Apart from what I watch in the news and read


But Françafrique that I know of
Gbagbe iyen.

I hear the CBN wishes to auction fresh set of T Bills

Anyone here planning to bid?

This thread has turned into a boring political economics class.

Can we please go back to discussing how to make money and leave CBN, DMO, Min of Finance and co to do their jobs.

If you feel your points are valid or can make a difference to the Nigerian Economy, please prepare a position paper and forward it to the relevant agencies/organisations.

All this plenty talk talk does nothing. Let’s discuss what our fellow readers can lay their hands on and carry out in real life please.

Na beg I dey beg.

Thank you.

Please does anyone have an update on Sukuk bond ?

DexterousOne:
I hear the CBN wishes to auction fresh set of T Bills

Anyone here planning to bid?

jobark:
This thread has turned into a boring political economics class.

Can we please go back to discussing how to make money and leave CBN, DMO, Min of Finance and co to do their jobs.

If you feel your points are valid or can make a difference to the Nigerian Economy, please prepare a position paper and forward it to the relevant agencies/organisations.

All this plenty talk talk does nothing. Let’s discuss what our fellow readers can lay their hands on and carry out in real life please.

Na beg I dey beg.

Thank you.

On threads like these
Deviations are natural

With no much activity (or incentive due to the low rates) to chuck head in T Bill's bidding and all

Discussions like these are inevitable

Is this thread about economics now or investing?

Too many people are focused on telling stories about how they or their father or their neighbor made money from real estate or whatnot, or writing dissertations on macroeconomic theories which don't have any relevance to people looking to invest and make the most returns today.

Skipped over like a hundred pages and it's much the same, as opposed to the frequent updates on rates, auction dates and other useful updates that used to be here before.

koonbey:
Is this thread about economics now or investing?

Too many people are focused on telling stories about how they or their father or their neighbor made money from real estate or whatnot, or writing dissertations on macroeconomic theories which don't have any relevance to people looking to invest and make the most returns today.

Skipped over like a hundred pages and it's much the same, as opposed to the frequent updates on rates, auction dates and other useful updates that used to be here before.

.there isn't much action, or will I say incentive on the T Bill's investment, because recently, the rates have been abysmal

DexterousOne:


On threads like these
Deviations are natural

With no much activity (or incentive due to the low rates) to chuck head in T Bill's bidding and all

Discussions like these are inevitable

The deviation to real estate, sukuk, mutual funds, various business opportunities and experiences was welcomed.

The discussion now comes off as condescending arguments and “na me know pass”. I have visually blocked some peoples comments as I don’t even bother reading their opinions as i see their handle.

koonbey:
Is this thread about economics now or investing?

Too many people are focused on telling stories about how they or their father or their neighbor made money from real estate or whatnot, or writing dissertations on macroeconomic theories which don't have any relevance to people looking to invest and make the most returns today.

Skipped over like a hundred pages and it's much the same, as opposed to the frequent updates on rates, auction dates and other useful updates that used to be here before.

And you are also wrong on one thing


Macroeconomic conditions are the major determinant of the T Bill's rates
But that's by the way.


If I would advice anyone now
I'd say that person should invest in equities based mutual funds and have a long term approach towards it.


If one is brave and have the risk appetite
The person can dive into the equities market directly

That's the way right now


Treasury Bill's (and by extension Money market Based mutual funds due to their exposure to the T Bill's market) is highly unattractive right now
Except you have a very big capital base and have no short term use for the money

jobark:


The deviation to real estate, sukuk, mutual funds, various business opportunities and experiences was welcome.

The discussion now comes off as condescending arguments and “na me know pass”. I have visually blocked some peoples comments as I don’t even bother reading their comments as i see their handle.

You dont have to see it that way though

I read dozens of pages myself
And responded to the many comments over the many pages I read on page 1309 or so here.


Most of these discussions are linked in one way or the other to the macro economy which in turn is linked to the T Bill's and other businesses
That's why these things periodically come up

Everyone will state his viewpoint, and then bounce

But the abusive comments made by some were uncalled for

DexterousOne:



1. And you are also wrong on one thing


Macroeconomic conditions are the major determinant of the T Bill's rates
But that's by the way.


If I would advice anyone now
I'd say that person should invest in 2. equities based mutual funds and have a long term approach towards it.


If one is brave and have the risk appetite
The person can dive into the equities market directly

That's the way right now


Treasury Bill's (and by extension Money market Based mutual funds due to their exposure to the T Bill's market) is highly unattractive right now
Except you have a very big capital base and have no short term use for the money

1. Certainly, I didn't foreclose macroeconomic discussions. If you read my post, you'll see that I qualified the discussions I was referring to by saying they were related to theories with little or no relevance to immediate T-bills investing.

2. Exactly. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Liquidated all my t-bill holdings and moved into US equities. Good returns, far better than what one would get with T-bills even at their recent heights.

koonbey:


1. Certainly, I didn't foreclose macroeconomic discussions. If you read my post, you'll see that I qualified the discussions I was referring to by saying they were related to theories with little or no relevance to immediate T-bills investing.

2. Exactly. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Liquidated all my t-bill holdings and moved into US equities. Good returns, far better than what one would get with T-bills even at their recent heights.

All of una get mind

My $1 is not going into the US market o

Until the end of say next year
I don't understand that is going on again in that Wall Street.

DexterousOne:
I hear the CBN wishes to auction fresh set of T Bills

Anyone here planning to bid?

I think most peeps here have moved towards bonds or Mutual funds.

DexterousOne:


All of una get mind

My $1 is not going into the US market o

Until the end of say next year
I don't understand that is going on again in that Wall Street.

Print money, dash people and then people buy stocks just because. If care is not taken, it will end in tears.

GonFreecss1:


Print money, dash people and then people buy stocks just because. If care is not taken, it will end in tears.

Brother Powell has distorted the markets

Even companies wey suppose don die are rallying at unbelievable percentages

Na siddon look I dey

GonFreecss1:


Print money, dash people and then people buy stocks just because. If care is not taken, it will end in tears.

It will most likely end in tears.
When price are up with no underlying fundamental to support it that is not the best time to buy unless one is a trader.

DexterousOne:


Brother Powell has distorted the markets

Even companies wey suppose don die are rallying at unbelievable percentages

Na siddon look I dey

All the yoyo traders are now claiming experts, telling us that the Oracle of Omaha is old school for selling some of his stocks and staying on cash.