Dannyfan:
ok.
But did you know that the story of Jesus might not convince some one? And the story of believers of Christ can minister and reveal who Christ is to a disbeliever?
Thanks for all your responses and the possible coming ones.

If the story of Jesus and the witnesses of those who were with Him can not convince you, then you are Ripe for the Plucking and a Willing Candidate for Deceivers.

You would surely be very lucky, not to be Deceived, which Christ has warned us shall be prevalent and shall Only get very worse in the last days which of course, we are in Even Right NOW!!

CodeTemplar:
I have read a good part of that book and Robert liardon is just a proxy. The stories and experiences referenced in it aren't his ideas but a compilation of events in the lives of God's Generals or Great men of the faith. It would be wrong to pitch the author against the Bible here. Smith Wigglesworth too never realized he lacked the Holy Ghost been but was doing quite fine too until he realized he needed the baptism of the Holy Ghost. That doesn't make the author a liar.

Honestly, I was not calling him a liar for I don't know him.

My Interest is that All Should and Must Take Heed (if you love your soul) that ye be NOT Deceived.

It is a Warning Re-Sounding Throughout the Bible since Christ said it in New Testament.

Beware of False Prophets, Beware of False Prophets!!!

I say, Stick to the Bible, Only, (Not books, not Preachers, Not Church) it Is A Sure Safety, Especially as the Last Days Are Upon Us.

This is my Stand Always and it will Never Change.

petra1:


It’s by the agency of the Holy Spirit we got born again . And the Bible made us to know it’s spirit baptism .

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body. .

I’ve been getting it back every day but I get banned every day and without explanation . I observed now that I get banned specifically every time I make post in the oyedepo succession Thread . So I no Dey go there again . B

Based on the scripture quoted it's clearer but I think it could be very Misleading to say Holy Spirit Baptism and Infilling, for there is Only One Holy Spirit, and Everything pertaining to It, is Always in Its Holy Hand

Hence my confusion and query! Thanks for the clear up.

abi make Oyedepo take care of himself!

Dannyfan:
Ok, I got some point here, that he might have received/had the spirit but not speaking tongue because he was chosen. Now lemme do it like this;
what's the essence of baptizm of the holy spirit when you're already performing healing, deliverance etc?

It is impossible to be born again without having the Spirit of God living inside of one because being born again simply means born of the Spirit of God and those who are, have the Spirit of God living on the inside of them. This is according to what Jesus Christ taught His followers.

Dtruthspeaker:


First, it should be appreciated that, No One Brings Upon Themselves the Holy Spirit and No One can do so.

The Holy Spirit Comes of Its Own Will on a Chosen Person and Not Any person Taking UP the Holy Spirit as though It were a Cloth that can be taken up.

This is what informed my own opinion and it is supported by several scriptures Acts 10:2 and 44-48. Acts 8:12-17 Simon here too, was baptized like the rest but he did not receive the Holy Spirit. Why? Verse 21-23 gives us the answer.

It is easily possible to be baptized but one shall never have the Holy Spirit. Why? As Paul put it in Romans 2:28/29 "... and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter (or form).

Which I followed in saying that Baptism is not outwardly in the water as circumcision is not in the flesh but "but baptism in the heart and in the spirit."

Likely you didn't get my question well as it seems you aren't answering it. Let me state it again.

This is based on your first post that the holy spirit comes after am acceptable baptism. That is the cleaning of one's sins according to your word.

So, I asked, since the Holy is not responsible for the cleaning of man's sin or acceptable baptism, who does the baptism, who is responsible to cleaning (baptism) a sinner from his sin. That is the question.

That is what I desire to know.

First, I study no Theology, I Only Love The Lord and I therefore Study His Ways, Which in Goodness, He Has Revealed!

For the Lord Himself, spoke in Clear Precise Language and not Once do we hear a strange speech in all of His Teachings.

The Lord Himself showed us by Clear Examples, Physical Things Explaining the Spiritual Things He Taught, Always. And not once is there any Spiritual Thing which can not be explained by a physical Replica. E.g "The Kingdom of God can be Likened to .. " or "Which one of you..."

Thus, while the meaning of Tongues in the physical Clearly and undisputably means Languages, Native Dialect and means of communication from one person to another, No Supporter of the idea of Ble-bleble is able to ground or justify their spiritual concept of Speaking in Tongues, Physically, for Perfect Understanding Purposes. No, not One.

And this is an Anomaly I see, which is not found anywhere in the Teachings that Christ Taught us.

Therefore, those who came up with this Ble-bleble, ought to Convincingly Prove what they say.

I may have to correct the bold. Every bible study and every bible student has a theology. Theology means study of God and by extension his work and ways.

So, saying theology isn't a bad word. It is what we do daily. Saying you should study your theology of a topic simply means you study your that concept as related to God's knowledge.

I won't go in the direction of tongues as that isn't necessary here. There are detailed work and discussions on Nairaland that can give you critical view of what you wrote and hold concerning that. But like I said, try check again your theology of such concept very well.

Dtruthspeaker:
it could be very Misleading to say Holy Spirit Baptism and Infilling, for there is Only One Holy Spirit,

Maybe I didn’t express it well.

We Saved by the Holy Spirit. But it’s possible to be saved and not be filled with power and gifts . When a man received the in filling of the same Holy Spirit that when ability and enduement comes . As you said there is only one Holy Spirit but two exoeriences

Dannyfan:
Ok, I got some point here, that he might have received/had the spirit but not speaking tongue because he was chosen.
Now lemme do it like this;
what's the essence of baptizm of the holy spirit when you're already performing healing, deliverance etc?

I hardly do this, short answer things. but let me try it

Baptism of the holyghost is not speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is one of the evidence (visible) of baptism of the holyghost. When a man doesn't speak in tongues, it doesn't mean he is not baptised by the holyghost. He has been given the spirit, that is the seal, the prove of his salvation.

You cannot see or explain holyghost baptism beyond salvation. And that is not baptism by water immersion. A man is immersed in Christ, identified with his death and life at salvation. This is the work of the holyghost.

The moment you start to see baptism of the holyghost beyond receiving salvation, you are either not reading well or being driven by the spectacular to miss the supernatural.

hoopernikao:


Likely you didn't get my question well as it seems you aren't answering it. Let me state it again.

This is based on your first post that the holy spirit comes after am acceptable baptism. That is the cleaning of one's sins according to your word.

So, I asked, since the Holy is not responsible for the cleaning of man's sin or acceptable baptism, who does the baptism, who is responsible to cleaning (baptism) a sinner from his sin. That is the question.

That is what I desire to know.

Ok. I did not say "Holy Spirit is not responsible for the cleaning of man's sin" neither do I say that "the Holy Spirit is Responsible".

So therefore, who is responsible? By the Authorities of Simon vs Peter in Acts I cited above, Paul in the Corinthians I cited and Psalms 51:17, Luke 7: 37/38, it is you, the offender or offendor or the sinner who does the cleaning of yourself, for yourself!

hoopernikao:

I may have to correct the bold. Every bible study and every bible student has a theology.

And here is my concern, I do not have a theology, I only merely study my Creator, the Lord, my God!

hoopernikao:

Theology means study of God and by extension his work and ways.

So, saying theology isn't a bad word. It is what we do daily. Saying you should study your theology of a topic simply means you study y[b]our that concept as related to God's knowledge[/b].

That was why I was wary of that word. I do not own theology, I am only studying to acquire how to Be like my God and Do what He tells me to do, in Precision.

Nothing in my study or the knowledge I acquire is mine.

hoopernikao:

I won't go in the direction of tongues as that isn't necessary here. There are detailed work and discussions on Nairaland that can give you critical view of what you wrote and hold concerning that. But like I said, try check again your theology of such concept very well.

Thank you for dropping it, because I really do not wish to enter into it at all.

petra1:


Maybe I didn’t express it well.

We Saved by the Holy Spirit. But it’s possible to be saved and not be filled with power and gifts . When a man received the in filling of the same Holy Spirit that when ability and enduement comes . As you said there is only one Holy Spirit but two exoeriences

Is it not written- 4 "There is One body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in One hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, One faith, One baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Everything is One, even the experiences you claim, are all One.

But I'll drop it!

Dannyfan:
My recent study of some God's General as accounted in Roberts Liardon books shows that the Christian's life of some Minister starts from seeing vision, healing etc before they were curious to speaks in tongue.
Which prompt my question: Is receiving the Holy Spirit different from baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Note: -I believe a Christian can't perform healing, deliverance without possessing the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit).

download Kenneth Hagin Understanding the anointing. I believe your answers are there.

Dannyfan:
ok.
But did you know that the story of Jesus might not convince some one? And the story of believers of Christ can minister and reveal who Christ is to a disbeliever?
Thanks for all your responses and the possible coming ones.

See the Burden I was attempting to warn you about which you have taken up?

Oya, More Reading for you.

JourneytoEL:
download Kenneth Hagin Understanding the anointing. I believe your answers are there.

.

Understanding and Wisdom is Given by the Lord and He that wants it, Must Ask Him, of It! James 1:5

Dtruthspeaker:


Ok. I did not say "Holy Spirit is not responsible for the cleaning of man's sin" neither do I say that "the Holy Spirit is Responsible".

So therefore, who is responsible? By the Authorities of Simon vs Peter in Acts I cited above, Paul in the Corinthians I cited and Psalms 51:17, Luke 7: 37/38, it is you, the offender or offendor or the sinner who does the cleaning of yourself, for yourself!

If I get you well, the sinner will have to clean himself, perform what you called acceptable baptism, wash himself off sin and offences then the holyghost can come and baptise him. Right?

I have also checked the text you gave

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise

I can't see a cleaning of sin here by the sinner nor do I see his immersion for acceptable cleaning of his body and sins. You may need to expatiate.


Secondly and more importantly,
How does the person cleans himself from his sin and does acceptable baptism by himself since the holyghost is not responsible.

Dtruthspeaker:


Is it not written- 4 "There is One body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in One hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, One faith, One baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Everything is One, even the experiences you claim, are all One.

But I'll drop it!

Also here you agreed to ONE baptism. And according to your former explanation you mentioned two:
1. Acceptable baptism: for washing of sin and body of sins.

2. Holyghost baptism: for the holyghost to be received.

Going by Ephesian you quoted, which one is actually the one baptism.

Dtruthspeaker:


Is it not written- 4 "There is One body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in One hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, One faith, One baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Everything is One, even the experiences you claim, are all One.

But I'll drop it!

I thought we are saying same thing

hoopernikao:


If I get you well, the sinner will have to clean himself, perform what you called acceptable baptism, wash himself off sin and offences then the holyghost can come and baptise him. Right?

I have also checked the text you gave

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise

I can't see a cleaning of sin here by the sinner nor do I see his immersion for acceptable cleaning of his body and sins. You may need to expatiate.


Secondly and more importantly,
How does the person cleans himself from his sin and does acceptable baptism by himself since the holyghost is not responsible.

Okay, lets go this way. It is Settled that "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit". What does a "broken spirit" mean in this statement? Does it not mean Remorse, Regret and A Quest to Seek Forgiveness for the doing of a Wrong (that you now know is wrong)? Isn't that what is known as True Repentance, which Always brings about a Broken spirit?

Therefore, by the Law Stated Above here, where there is a broken spirit, the Lord would accept.

Why would the Lord accept it? Because it fulfills another Law which States that "Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?

4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation." Psalm 24:3-5. And Also Psalm 4:5- "Offer the sacrifices of Righteousness (Rightness in today's speech).

Therefore, by the Law in Romans 12:1, the Lord would Accept "a living sacrifice, Holy, Acceptable unto Him", and if the Lord accepts this sacrifice of Contrition, have You, who did All these things, Not Offered a Holy and Acceptable Offering?

These are the Laws and therefore this is my Stand!

hoopernikao:


Also here you agreed to ONE baptism. And according to your former explanation you mentioned two:
1. Acceptable baptism: for washing of sin and body of sins.

2. Holyghost baptism: for the holyghost to be received.

Going by Ephesian you quoted, which one is actually the one baptism.

I never ever said 2 Baptism (or is Baptisms?).

1) I said "Baptism refers to the Washing of Your Body and Soul, That is A Bath to wash all your dirts (Sins and Offences) Away.

And,

2) The Pouring and Receiving of the Holy Spirit can be likened to the Rubbing of an Ointment (which you can not do to yourself), A Holy Ointment on Both Your Body and Soul, As well as the "Clothing" of Your Body and Soul.

One is Bathe and bathe very well both bodily and Especially Spiritually.

Two, is Pray that your bathing is Acceptable to and Accepted by the Lord, if not, you'll need to do it again, until the Lord Accepts You.

Dtruthspeaker:


Okay, lets go this way. It is Settled that "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit". What does a "broken spirit" mean in this statement? Does it not mean Remorse, Regret and A Quest to Seek Forgiveness for the doing of a Wrong (that you now know is wrong)? Isn't that what is known as True Repentance, which Always brings about a Broken spirit?

Therefore, by the Law Stated Above here, where there is a broken spirit, the Lord would accept.

Why would the Lord accept it? Because it fulfills another Law which States that "Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?

4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation." Psalm 24:3-5. And Also Psalm 4:5- "Offer the sacrifices of Righteousness (Rightness in today's speech).

Therefore, by the Law in Romans 12:1, the Lord would Accept "a living sacrifice, Holy, Acceptable unto Him", and if the Lord accepts this sacrifice of Contrition, have You, who did All these things, Not Offered a Holy and Acceptable Offering?

These are the Laws and therefore this is my Stand

It seems you are mixing things up.

I don't have issues with what you wrote above.
Why I asked questions is because you called the above a "baptism". Let me quote you again and

Baptism refers to the Washing of Your Body and Soul, That is A Bath to wash all your dirts (Sins and Offences) Away.

In other words the Holy Spirit Only Comes After a Pure And Acceptable Baptism, which itself Also Only Comes After A Pure And Truthful Repentance and in that Order

So, refering repentance to acceptable baptism is a big issue. Firstly, that can't be called baptism and was never called baptism in the bible.

Baptism is taught in Epistles as one. Hence the baptism of the holyghost. This is also what you received at salvation. It is not what happened afterwards. A man who received salvation must have done so with a repentance heart i.e. a change of heart. Hence no man with salvation lacks the baptism of the holyghost. Any other visible or spectacular act you see afterwards are only signs. The receiving of the Spirit itself is supernatural and don't have to be spectacular. And that is done at salvation.

Dtruthspeaker:


I never ever said 2 Baptism (or is Baptisms?).

1) I said "Baptism refers to the Washing of Your Body and Soul, That is A Bath to wash all your dirts (Sins and Offences) Away.

And,

2) The Pouring and Receiving of the Holy Spirit can be likened to the Rubbing of an Ointment (which you can not do to yourself), A Holy Ointment on Both Your Body and Soul, As well as the "Clothing" of Your Body and Soul.

One is Bathe and bathe very well both bodily and Especially Spiritually.

Two, is Pray that your bathing is Acceptable to and Accepted by the Lord, if not, you'll need to do it again, until the Lord Accepts You.

Jesus requires no bathe or cleaning from an unbeliever to be saved Sir. No matter how he washed even with white soap he cant be cleaned except by the blood of Jesus.

A man don't clean himself to come to Jesus, no single scriptures for that. A man must repent, change his heart and receive the life of Christ, that is how he is washed.

I say again, no man can wash himself clean expect the blood of Jesus. A man is to come with trust that all his sins no matter how big can be taken care of by the blood, that is repentance and it's driving by faith.

" I am a sinner and I now know and receive truly there is a savior to deliver me and clean me, I have no ability of mine to do so, hence I come to you trusting in your blood to make me whole".

That is salvation. No personal stuff.

If I can take care of my sins before coming to Jesus what sin then will Jesus washes away. Hence a sinner will come to him with all he is and trust and accept him as the only sacrifice to wash and take away sins. Anything outside these is not salvation.

hoopernikao:


So, refering repentance to acceptable baptism is a big issue. Firstly, that can't be called baptism and was never called baptism in the bible.

Baptism is taught in Epistles as one. Hence the baptism of the holyghost. This is also what you received at salvation. It is not what happened afterwards. A man who received salvation must have done so with a repentance heart i.e. a change of heart. Hence no man with salvation lacks the baptism of the holyghost. Any other visible or spectacular act you see afterwards are only signs. The receiving of the Spirit itself is supernatural and don't have to be spectacular. And that is done at salvation.

Naah. Mixing things up. There are different baptisms.
Baptism of the Holy Ghost is the second in order.
Baptism is taught as one in Eph4:6 because it is ultimately one but is administered in degrees hence in Heb6:2 "doctrine of Baptisms".

Dannyfan:

They're followers of Christ.
Most of these generals you're against as being righteous are not speaking for them self as general but the work done through them speaks volume of their dedication, obedience and adherence to the word of God.

@OP, what the Lord called baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts1:5, receiving power in Acts1:8, being endued with power in Lk24:49 was fulfilled in Acts2:4 when they were all filled with the Holy Ghost.
So, you see clearly that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is scripturally same as infilling of the Spirit.


A quick exposition on tongues/Baptism in Spirit
The baptism in the Spirit is a free gift of grace available to every believer after they receive initial faith in the Lord and turn to Him in repentance. But is greatly misunderstood today.


Purpose of the baptism
The main purpose of this baptism is to make us witnesses of Jesus Christ(Acts1:. Note that witnessing is not evangelism as wrongly and widely taught. We have too many believers baptized in the Spirit today but hardly any witnesses hence God gets no real glory out of their lives. The Corinthian church was full of such. Not wanting to start something I can't finish, I won't get into what witnessing really means but for a start, let it be clear that until the flesh and mundane living are dealt with, we are no witnesses. You could be a celebrated and popular minister empowered with the anointing of the Spirit(truly baptized) and still not be a witness(Mt7:22)
So I'll just leave it at this. Let anyone who's been baptized in the Holy Spirit ask Him what it means to be a witness and to make them one.

Secondly, the purpose of this baptism is so we can all relate with the Holy Spirit and be taught directly by Him.(Jn14:26, 1Cor2:10-13, Jn16:13). Oh! how we have wasted the Holy Spirit and we try to teach ourselves by simply reading the scriptures. The scriptures though all very true will only bring forth arguments with everyone trying to interpret their own way(2Pet1:20-21) but if we all learn from the Spirit(Heb8:10-11, 1Jn2:27), we will come to unity of faith. All denominationalism and sectarianism today is the unfortunate result of our error.


Sign of the baptism in Spirit
The sign of this baptism is POWER(Acts1: in your spirit. This power is evidenced in your spirit and the Holy Spirit expressions in your day to day life, interrupting by force of superimposition, your default flesh expression. This baptism therefore fuels your spirit and incites the war against the flesh(Gal5:17).
The expressions of your spirit are the two in Heb6:5
1.) An initial insatiable appetite for the Presence of God and His utterances both directly from His Spirit and through scripture
2.) A mere FORETASTE(not fullness) of eternal powers/gifts(1Cor12:6-10)

When these two expressions are found in your life, the power of this baptism is operational.

What about the tongues and utterance?
Of all the gifts/expressions viz.eternal powers, tongues and prophecy (utterance gifts) are the two that EVERY believer can and should personally develop(others are given according to Providence and can then be developed). This is obvious from Paul's admonition(1Cor12:31,14:1). Remember that these are all gifts so we don't earn them by performance but by gratuity and then by knowledge, we can develop them.
While utterance came instantly on the patriarchal Jews in their baptism(Acts2:1-4). Utterance hasn't always immediately come on the gentiles in the baptism (hence1Cor12:30) but can nevertheless be developed(hence 1Cor12:31,14:1, Eph5:18-19)

Responsibility on us
According to Eph5:18-19, it's every believer's responsibility to keep being filled in the Spirit all the time so that we are of use to do the Lord's bidding. Only a filled vessel is of any use to the Lord.
Note that KJV shades the sense of Paul's in its rendition. The Greek text uses present continuous tense i.e.
...Be being(continuously) filled with the Spirit, speaking....Eph5:18-19
We maintain this filling by tarrying before the Lord in prayers.

petra1:


Maybe I didn’t express it well.

We Saved by the Holy Spirit. But it’s possible to be saved and not be filled with power and gifts . When a man received the in filling of the same Holy Spirit that when ability and enduement comes . As you said there is only one Holy Spirit but two exoeriences

Ability and endowment comes the very day you receive the holyghost and that is at salvation. You can't separate the spirit from the spirit ability. You can't have the spirit and lack it's ability. Most of the time what is lacking is knowledge. The day you come to know you have it doesn't have to be the day you received it. It is there all along.

Endowment is what you are born with not what you acquire. At new birth you received the spirit and then endowment of the spirit. Functioning in it will be a knowledge fact.

Also "be filled" with the spirit is not refering to receievinh something but being control by what you have received. It means to be controlled with.
In Ephes 5 Paul use a contrast. Drunk with wine, filled with the spirit.

18 And do not ye be drunk of wine, in which is lechery [in which is luxury], but be ye filled with the Holy Ghost;

Drunk and filled are contrast saying the same thing. Do no be taken over or control with wine but will the spirit.

Being filled with the spirit will mean activities of the spirit, it's operations among us.

Hence Vs 19 shows you how to be filled.

19 and speaking ye to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your hearts to the Lord; [speaking to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your heart to the Lord;]


Verse 19 listed out how. These are activities of the spirit. You must read 17-19 together to understand this .

18 And do not ye be drunk of wine, in which is lechery [in which is luxury], but be ye filled with the Holy Ghost;

19 BY speaking ye to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your hearts to the Lord; [speaking to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your heart to the Lord;]

the word AND will mean BY pointing to how to be filled. Always read the letters in context.

Same thing you will read in Acts 4. They were filled and then spoke with boldness. That is to function in ability you already have.

Finallydead:

Naah. Mixing things up. There are different baptisms.
Baptism of the Holy Ghost is the second in order.
Baptism is taught as one in Eph4:6 because it is ultimately one but is administered in degrees hence in Heb6:2 "doctrine of Baptisms".

Okay so can you explain the baptisms. I will need clear explanation between the baptisms you mentioned.

Also, saying Ephes 4 mentioning ONE baptism is refering to ultimate isn't true.

There is a sequence in the verses

So is it also many Lords,many God's, many of the Faith etc? Also many Spirit in Christ?

One simply means one in all the context.

hoopernikao:


Ability and endowment comes the very day you receive the holyghost and that is at salvation. You can't separate the spirit from the spirit ability. You can't have the spirit and lack it's ability. Most of the time what is lacking is knowledge. The day you come to know you have it doesn't have to be the day you received it. It is there all along.

Endowment is what you are born with not what you acquire. At new birth you received the spirit and then endowment of the spirit. Functioning in it will be a knowledge fact.

Also "be filled" with the spirit is not refering to receievinh something but being control by what you have received. It means to be controlled with.
In Ephes 5 Paul use a contrast. Drunk with wine, filled with the spirit.

18 And do not ye be drunk of wine, in which is lechery [in which is luxury], but be ye filled with the Holy Ghost;

Drunk and filled are contrast saying the same thing. Do no be taken over or control with wine but will the spirit.

Being filled with the spirit will mean activities of the spirit, it's operations among us.

Hence Vs 19 shows you how to be filled.

19 and speaking ye to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your hearts to the Lord; [speaking to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your heart to the Lord;]


Verse 19 listed out how. These are activities of the spirit. You must read 17-19 together to understand this .

18 And do not ye be drunk of wine, in which is lechery [in which is luxury], but be ye filled with the Holy Ghost;

19 BY speaking ye to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your hearts to the Lord; [speaking to yourselves in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and saying psalm in your heart to the Lord;]

the word AND will mean BY pointing to how to be filled. Always read the letters in context.

Same thing you will read in Acts 4. They were filled and then spoke with boldness. That is to function in ability you already have.

I get your point . Maybe I used wrong term . I should have probably said . “To receive infilling “

Acts 19:1-2
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

petra1:


I get your point . Maybe I used wrong term . I should have probably said . “To receive infilling “

Acts 19:1-2
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Salvation Sir. That is what is referred to in Acts 19. Receiving the holyghost is salvation.

They weren't saved. The lack of the holyghost in them was obvious to Paul. They only know about the preaching of John (baptism of repentance). They have never heard Jesus preached nor anything about the spirit. Hence, salvation through faith in Christ wasn't known to them.

Paul handled then the same way he will handle all unbelievers. Just like Philip and the Eunuch. They do have zeal even to know but hasn't been taught salvation in Christ.

hoopernikao:


It seems you are mixing things up.

I don't have issues with what you wrote above.
Why I asked questions is because you called the above a "baptism". Let me quote you again and



So, refering repentance to acceptable baptism is a big issue. Firstly, that can't be called baptism and was never called baptism in the bible.

Baptism is taught in Epistles as one. Hence the baptism of the holyghost. This is also what you received at salvation. It is not what happened afterwards. A man who received salvation must have done so with a repentance heart i.e. a change of heart. Hence no man with salvation lacks the baptism of the holyghost. Any other visible or spectacular act you see afterwards are only signs. The receiving of the Spirit itself is supernatural and don't have to be spectacular. And that is done at salvation.

I understand, there is no contention anywhere.

For what you were trying to comprehend in my statement which you now understand, is that I was only merely attempting to describe the flow of the Holy Spirit from salvation back to baptism and Beginning from True Repentance, linking All of them Together, using the Relevant Laws.

hoopernikao:


Salvation Sir. That is what is referred to in Acts 19. Receiving the holyghost is salvation.

They weren't saved.

I agree. But let's forget that for now . Remember Paul thought they were born again initially. So he's presumed talking to chtidtisn believers. That means if they were born again he would still have asked them " HAVE YE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT "

hoopernikao:


Jesus requires no bathe or cleaning from an unbeliever to be saved Sir. No matter how he washed even with white soap he cant be cleaned except by the blood of Jesus.

A man don't clean himself to come to Jesus, no single scriptures for that. A man must repent, change his heart and receive the life of Christ, that is how he is washed.

I say again, no man can wash himself clean expect the blood of Jesus. A man is to come with trust that all his sins no matter how big can be taken care of by the blood, that is repentance and it's driving by faith.

" I am a sinner and I now know and receive truly there is a savior to deliver me and clean me, I have no ability of mine to do so, hence I come to you trusting in your blood to make me whole".

That is salvation. No personal stuff.

If I can take care of my sins before coming to Jesus what sin then will Jesus washes away. Hence a sinner will come to him with all he is and trust and accept him as the only sacrifice to wash and take away sins. Anything outside these is not salvation.

From my earlier Answer, you now understand that I am saying that Repentance is the Bath. Having A Proper Bath in Righteousness, Using the Blood of the Lamb as your "water".

Ah! I am not saying and I never said that soap and water can wash away sins oh!

I am only saying that Repentance must be done with a pure heart and with no deceit or wrongfulness, like Simon in Acts 8:9-23.

hoopernikao:


Okay so can you explain the baptisms. I will need clear explanation between the baptisms you mentioned.

Also, saying Ephes 4 mentioning ONE baptism is refering to ultimate isn't true.

There is a sequence in the verses

So is it also many Lords,many God's, many of the Faith etc? Also many Spirit in Christ?

One simply means one in all the context.

Do you know that he says one faith also in the same verse yet the righteousness of God is only revealed from faith to faith(Rom1:17). It's not two faiths but it's the degrees through which we come into the fullness of one faith.
So also it's the degrees in which we come into the fullness of the baptism.
Read my modified post. I have touched on the Holy Spirit baptism.

Before we can get into the degrees, you have to acknowledge that Paul mentions "baptisms" not baptism in Heb6:4.

Also I would ask if you know that the Lord Jesus is the pattern of our Christian life? yes or no?

Finallydead:

Do you know that he says one faith also in the same verse yet the righteousness of God is only revealed from faith to faith(Rom1:17). It's not two faiths but it's the degrees through which we come into the fullness of one faith.
So also it's the degrees in which we come into the fullness of the baptism.
Read my modified post. I have touched on the Holy Spirit baptism.

Before we can get into the degrees, you have to acknowledge that Paul mentions "baptisms" not baptism in Heb6:4.

Also I would ask if you know that the Lord Jesus is the pattern of our Christian life? yes or no?

You can't explain scriptures in isolation

Ephesians 4

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

How many body do we have?
How many Spirit? Lord? God? Father?

You don't isolate scriptures, you must interpret as a whole. From faith to faith never implies different faith or more than one. It simply means it is all faith from first to last. Hence "the just can only be by faith" that is both in old and new.

But let's leave this. Not the issue here.

I need to know how you find different baptisms for believers or levels of baptisms in the bible.

hoopernikao:



You can't explain scriptures in isolation

Ephesians 4

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

How many body do we have?
How many Spirit? Lord? God? Father?

You don't isolate scriptures, you must interpret as a whole. From faith to faith never implies different faith or more than one. It simply means it is all faith from first to last. Hence "the just can only be by faith" that is both in old and new.

But let's leave this. Not the issue here.

I need to know how you find different baptisms for believers or levels of baptisms in the bible.

First off, you haven't answered my question. Is it a yes or no?
Second it matters much what I've done in Eph4:6. Cause he called it one faith and one baptism in the same text. But it doesn't take away the fact that faith unfolds in degrees (Rom1:17) as well as the baptism. Hence you must acknowledge that Eph4:6 doesn't take away from Heb6:4 before we proceed. You can also see this degrees of baptism in Ezk47.

Finallydead:

First off, you haven't answered my question. Is it a yes or no?
Second it matters much what I've done in Eph4:6. Cause he called it one faith and one baptism in the same text. But it doesn't take away the fact that faith unfolds in degrees (Rom1:17) as well as the baptism. Hence you must acknowledge that Eph4:6 doesn't take away from Heb6:4 before we proceed. You can also see this degrees of baptism in Ezk47.

Read Rom 1-3 well. There is nothing as faith and another faith. Same faith from old to new. That is exactly what he is saying. No difference. Infact it is saying the opposite of what you are saying.

It will simply translate that the faith preached in OT is same. Nothing different. Faith in Christ. Check all verses that reference Hab 2:4. They all mean the same. Same faith in from Genesis to Revelation. Same gospel to Adam to us. God's word didn't change according to faith. But as I said baptism is what I want to focus on here else we will change the whole topic.

So, I want you to state for me the different baptisms require of believers.

As per your question. Surely Jesus is our example.

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, would you like to know my view on the matter as i studied my Bible?

Maximus69:
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, would you like to know my view on the matter as i studied my Bible?

Sure... It's never a crime to share your believe. I am waiting.