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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. (2298 Views)
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Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 7:25pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
petra1: I suggest you read Isiah Chapter 7 completely. It is self explanatory and simple enough proof that Isiah was talking of a different virgin birth. The author of Mathew for reasons best known to him took that passage in Isiah and falsely interpreted it as being about Jesus Christ. You guys need to do a little reading and research sometimes. That is why atheists always beat you at knowledge of your religious book because we read and have an open mind. I suggest you get Isiah Isiah Chapter 7 and read it then tell me if the writer is referring to Jesus virgin birth or a virgin birth that concerns a war. I know this is difficult for you because the INDOCTRINATION from youth is strong. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by petra1(m): 7:47pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Dantedasz: You're still wrong, you are the one who need to study how to interpret prophecies . There is never a case in the bible of virgin birth apart from christ . If there is kindly explain to us who got the virgin pregnant in the old testament.. Even if at all there is any case like that which I'm sure there is none . There are principles involved in interpretations of prophecies . There is law of foreshortening There is law of double reference etc By the law of double reference there are prophecies that have multiple fulfillment. Prince of Persia could have a partial earthly reference yet a spiritual reference David prophesying about ahithiopel betrayal yet still applicable to Judas betrayal . But on this topic that's not the case . There is only one virgin , Mary |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 7:58pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
petra1: My friend, The bible is not Ifa divination that you need a priest to interpret it for you.All you need to understand the bible is ability to READ and COMPREHEND. Before I became an atheist I was a Christian and I have read the bible cover to cover several times. The problem with Christian's is that you guys do NOT read your religious book but rely on what people or your pastors tell you. For the last time I repeat the virgin story in Isiah Chapter 7 is NOT talking about Jesus Christ virgin birth. There are TWO different virgin birth stories in the bible. The author of Mathew for reasons best known to him or because of mistranslation decided to claim the story in Isiah Chapter 7 refers to Jesus but it does not. Isiah Chapter 7 refers to a virgin birth during a war as a sign to a king. Go and read your bible please. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by petra1(m): 8:16pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Dantedasz: Seeing is one thing comprehending is another. There are principles to bible interpretation if not the ethiopian eunuch would not ask Philip to interpret the verse he was reading Before I became an atheist I was a Christian and I have read the bible cover to cover several times Oh , so you're one of them . In that case theres no point discussing spiritual matters with an unconverted because the holy spirit that give understanding is not in you . Except you're not yet a proper unbeliever . Your a christian who just lost his way but deep down you know your just rebelling . The problem with Christian's is that you guys do NOT read your religious book but rely on what people or your pastors tell you. Enough talks . Just quote the passage for is and tell us who's its talking about 1 Like |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 8:54pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
petra1: You are hilarious! Most Christian's I know are intelligent people until issues about their religious book comes about. As an intelligent person I expect you to be curious to go and read Isiah chapter 7 to see if I am lying but as usual you put intelligence aside and put on your uniform of DOGMA because you are afraid that you would discover what you probably believed all your life is WRONG. You retreat to dogma and start telling me of an ignorant Ethiopian enoch in a computer age where information is at the tip of your hands. It is only INDOCTRINATION that can do this to an educated intelligent person. My time on this thread is done because I can see that we are wasting each others time. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by TheMadame(f): 8:46am On Jun 29, 2020 |
Good morning all. 1 Like |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Douglaufuoma(m): 5:11pm On Jun 29, 2020 |
HedwigesMaduro:who will people blame, poor home training. u can't love the child and hate the mother, it is only two persons their come was for told before their birth. Jesus and his mother, Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. even Elizabeth acknowledge that fact by asking, Luke 1:43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? and our blessed mother crown it a with a song, Luke 1:46-55 “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by TheMadame(f): 8:01pm On Jun 29, 2020 |
Isaiah 7 New International Version The Sign of Immanuel 7 When Ahaz(A) son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, was king of Judah, King Rezin(B) of Aram(C) and Pekah(D) son of Remaliah(E) king of Israel marched up to fight against Jerusalem, but they could not overpower it. 2 Now the house of David(F) was told, “Aram has allied itself with[a] Ephraim(G)”; so the hearts of Ahaz and his people were shaken,(H) as the trees of the forest are shaken by the wind. 3 Then the Lord said to Isaiah, “Go out, you and your son Shear-Jashub,[b](I) to meet Ahaz at the end of the aqueduct of the Upper Pool, on the road to the Launderer’s Field.(J) 4 Say to him, ‘Be careful, keep calm(K) and don’t be afraid.(L) Do not lose heart(M) because of these two smoldering stubs(N) of firewood—because of the fierce anger(O) of Rezin and Aram and of the son of Remaliah.(P) 5 Aram, Ephraim and Remaliah’s(Q) son have plotted(R) your ruin, saying, 6 “Let us invade Judah; let us tear it apart and divide it among ourselves, and make the son of Tabeel king over it.” 7 Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says ![]() “‘It will not take place, it will not happen,(T) 8 for the head of Aram is Damascus,(U) and the head of Damascus is only Rezin.(V) Within sixty-five years Ephraim will be too shattered(W) to be a people. 9 The head of Ephraim is Samaria,(X) and the head of Samaria is only Remaliah’s son. If you do not stand(Y) firm in your faith,(Z) you will not stand at all.’”(AA) 10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask the Lord your God for a sign,(AB) whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights.(AC)” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test.(AD)” 13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David!(AE) Is it not enough(AF) to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience(AG) of my God(AH) also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign ![]() @ Petra @ dantedasz 1 Like |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 8:24am On Jun 30, 2020 |
@ Themadame There is NO need to mention me about the above Chapter of the bible because I already know about it word for word. As I said before the knowledgeable Christian's already know about this first virgin birth and know that the author of Mathew for reasons best known to him decided to ascribe it to the second virgin birth of Jesus. Thank you. Like I said before I do not wish to comment on this thread again. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by TheMadame(f): 1:31pm On Jun 30, 2020 |
Dantedasz: Okay,thanks. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by confusedlady(f): 9:51am On Apr 21, 2023 |
So was the virgin birth of Jesus known to the early Christians or not? No answer. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Kobojunkie: 4:23pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
TheMadame:1..Jesus Christ Himself never spoke of His own Birth so why do you feel the virgin birth should be of great importance to Paul who claimed to be a follower of His? ![]() 2. Paul's letter do not contain over 98% of the actual teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, and you ignore all of that all so you can fixate on its missing a statement on the virgin birth of Jesus Christ? ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 5:17pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
The simple fact is Paul is one of the main sources of the teachings of Christ as we know them in the scriptures. For him to never once mention the virgin birth in all his writings is extremely strange unless the early Christians did not believe that Jesus was the son of God. If the early Christians knew nothing about a virgin birth, it logically follows that they believed he was a human/man. From this deduction it follows that the virgin birth stories in Luke and Mathew gospels are latter interpolations. From this the trinity concept of the holy ghost/spirit is proven to be false because there was no holy spirit/virgin Mary conception. The early Christians never believed or preached a virgin birth because it never happened. The virgin birth stories were insertions after Paul, hence his failure to mention it even in the minutest detail because he did not know about it, he did not believe in it and as such could not preach it!
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Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Kobojunkie: 7:08pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Dantedasz:Yet 98% of the teachings contained in the Gospels is missing from the letters from the letters of Paul? Someone is sure pushing falsehood here and it ain't Paul. ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 7:57pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: What exactly are you on about this time? Address the OP as I have done. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Caveatemptor(m): 8:37pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Dantedasz: It's like you don't know that woman. She is a busybody itk personality. Jumping from religious thread to religious thread with no substance. ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Kobojunkie: 9:31pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Dantedasz:Simple, You lied regarding the content of Paul's letters which I am sure you have never in fact read and compared to the Gospels for yourself before making the claim that you did. ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Kobojunkie: 9:33pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Caveatemptor:Spoken like a true Nigerian man. I am certain that is the part you are irked most about... the possibility of what seems a woman to you understanding these things better than you ever could. You can't stand a woman not being as ignorant as you are about life and issues, can you? Even worse, a woman blatantly pointing out what is ignorance everywhere you turn, right? ![]() The challenge remains open, if you feel I am wrong on any subject, feel free to argue your side of it intelligently, ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Caveatemptor(m): 9:49pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: You are actually the one having issues with you sex,seeing that you try so hard to hide it but some of us can see through your bullsh1t. My sincere advise to you is that you try to calm down and understand what each peculiar thread is about before flying in and posting off point all the time. Read carefully and comprehend before posting your points,but then we all know you are not going to do this are you? You are possibly already on another thread,not understanding its essence arguing off point with NO substance! ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Kobojunkie: 9:58pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Caveatemptor:No need for the ramblings abeg! ![]() The challenge remains open, if you feel I am wrong on any subject, feel free to argue your side of it intelligently, ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Caveatemptor(m): 10:19pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Go back to the beginning of this thread because it is an old thread which was rejuvenated today. Carefully read from the beginning. You will see my points. Then you can pick my points and let's debate the facts. It is not right for you to be jumping from thread to thread without reading or understanding what is being discussed just arguing blindly and off point. It is not rocket science. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 10:25pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Caveatemptor: I know her. I normally ignore the old bat. Huge waste of time engaging her. I think she has a huge inability to concentrate on one topic. All over the place. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Kobojunkie: 10:25pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Caveatemptor:1. You are not making sense here. ![]() I did start at the very beginning of the thread and made myself clear when i stated that 98% of the Gospel is missing from Paul's letters and as such it is illogical to draw a conclusion on the fact that even a mention of the virgin birth is also missing from his letters. The other poster to whom I responded, I also called out for falsely claiming that Paul's letters mirror the gospels when again, 98% of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ are missing from all of the letters of Paul combined. So, what part of my point are you having a terribly hard time grasping here? ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by 4ward4: 10:26pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
TheMadame: Your questions are critical questions. But the Virgin birth been the foundation of Christianity is False, Christ Resurrection is the Basis of Christianity and on that ground is the subject of dispute with other religions. They are certain facts we need to know about the Bible and that will help you judge properly. It is a compilation and documentation of things that happens, reason why one can read it just like a Story book, imagine it and even act movies with it...Unlike other holy books that looks uncomprehensive. The 66 books were what the church think will be important to the Faith. Their are many other books & letters, like that of Mary Magdaline, St Jerome and others new apostles. and of course you should be certain not everything written by Paul in his 14 chapters were exacts..The church through it's scholars will edit and cut some parts. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 10:29pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Lied? What do you mean lied? I hope you don't have a loose screw somewhere upstairs?? I am not responding to your rudeness again. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Kobojunkie: 10:35pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
Dantedasz:The statement in bold is a lie! Dantedasz:98% of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ are in fact not found contained in the letters of Paul combined. This is exactly what I said earlier. ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:49pm On Apr 21, 2023 |
TheMadame:Paul is a Jew so the scriptures is not strange to him regarding the virgin birth of Christ {Isaiah 7:14} he referred to this as the elementary things about the Christ and told his Jews brothers in faith to move on to maturity with solid spiritual food! Hebrews 5:12 Solid spiritual food are teachings that's not of past things that are not to be overemphasize rather the things that we are hoping for which will serve as valid proof of what was written about the Christ! ![]() |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by Dantedasz(m): 7:16am On Apr 22, 2023 |
TheMadame: I think this original post is self explanatory. Then some one with a loose nut is going off point and not addressing the simple issues raised which is that WHY IS PAUL DESPITE ALL HIS WRITING SILENT ON THE VIRGIN BIRTH? If you don't have the answer you don't need to start an off point argument in order to create pages and pages of nonsensical arguments. I was not the original poster. I emphasised my own point that the early Christians had no knowledge of the virgin birth. Paul had no knowledge of the virgin birth therefore he does not mention it. The virgin birth stories in the books of Mathew and Luke are insertions by the Romans. The Romans in their numerous pre chrisyanity religions celebrated virgin births.Remove the two stories from Matthew and Luke and there is no virgin birth because John and Mark do not talk about a virgin birth in their gospels. Then that woman with loose screws upstairs leaves all these and attaches herself to a by product of the substance of the argument and starts going off tangent. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by TheMadame(f): 3:18pm On Apr 22, 2023 |
4ward4: On the first bolded, there are Christian schools that will disagree with your postulation. While some Christian school of thought believe the resurrection is the foundation of Christianity other schools of thought regard the virgin birth as the foundation because of trinity issues-God, son and holy ghost. Some sects even believe in the perpetual virginity of mother Mary. So to them they will obviously regard the virgin birth as the foundation. So your first point is subject to debate. As for the second bolded, we need not sugar coat issues on how the biblical cannon was established. There were many various Christian sects by the time Rome adopted Christianity as the official religion. The sects that had the ears of the emperor became the most powerful sects, used the power of the emperor to persecute the weaker sects, confiscated all their religious books and destroyed/burnt them. The books of these powerful sects are what became the Christian holy bible by the power of Rome and we're ratified by the Nicene, Constantinople councils and the various creeds thereafter. |
Re: Paul And His Loud Silence On The Virgin Birth. by confusedlady(f): 11:03pm On Sep 04, 2023 |
TheMadame: Anti Chriat. |
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