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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity (140719 Views)
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Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 9:46pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69: That scripture you quote above refers to what you preached now. That is why you cant find anyone who preached such from the Apostles, to the early Christian that the Apostles taught or met in 1st and 2nd century. Your doctrine is a (Modern Day Revelation) MDR that emerge in the 3rd century. It wasnt part of the foundation of the church, At All. All existing writing writing even few years after John the beloved died, showed that trinity was preached. So the weed sown by night is what you are preaching now. Go and check church history. Same as the bible. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 9:53pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Peacefullove: Listen to yourself and correct yourself. When you here FATHER, or SON, dont you think that refers to the perspective of humans? It is a revelation in humanity. God cant be pregnant to have a Son. When we say Father, is related to the Word became flesh. John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. We have the Son, in flesh, humanity. Hence, the expression Father. In divinity what you have is God. Understand bible language. When you cant differentiate Christ humanity from his divinity, you will obviously find yourself in this error of interpretation you are. That is what the guy has been telling you since. In Humanity you have: Father, Son, Holy-Ghost. Those are ways humans can comprehend the work of salvation. In Divinity, what you will have is God. |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 10:19pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
TATIME: All these you listed are Christ humanity not divinity. Father, Son is a reflection of humanity. Divinity is God. If you want to discuss and truly understand the concept of trinity, you must first know the difference in humanity and divinity of Christ. All scriptures you and your folks quote every-time to defend Christ is not God are scriptures that relate to his humanity. In humanity, Word became flesh, A glory was laid down (Phil 2:3-5) and enveloped himself in flesh. That is the Son. A God wont dwell among people as God, he has to be part of them in a way they will understand: as son, hence the word The Son of God, hence, The Father. In John's theology, John told you the logos was with God (John 1:1). That is the logos cant be different from God. God and His word are same. He then point to you when the logos became the Son (John 1:14). He became Son in Humanity. Hence, every context afterwards will refer to Father, Son. That is the essence of salvation. So, in humanity, it is clear that he is a Son, God that became Son for the sake of man. Hence he has a Father. That is how man can relate with God's work of salvation. For the fact that he is called Lord alone, should tell you something. If you want to discuss who Christ is in divinity, pick scriptures that speaks about his divinity and examine, not his humanity. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 10:34pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69:Really ![]() John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Crysthaniel(m): 10:39pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
hoopernikao:Please go and read revelation chapters 4 and 5 And bring your conclusion |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by KNOWMORE56: 10:43pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69: The other day you said that the attributes of the ONLY TRUE GOD is that He report to no one and worship no one. I asked you to provide 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 10:47pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
TATIME:so you no longer respect Jehovah's words because it claims Jesus is God. none of you could show me where scripture said Jesus is Angel michael rather you have seen countless scriptures upon scriptures that proved that Jesus is Almighty God. see below, Do you know all the honour, glory, power, worship and majesty that the father has also belongs to Jesus? everything (in totality) that the father has, also belongs to Jesus. John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. compare with this verse, Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. which means Jesus is not another as your organisation has falsely taught you over the years. God the father commanded all angels to worship Jesus. Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Here is Jehovah saying he will not give another his glory 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 10:50pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Crysthaniel: Is this an explanation or a joke? You will do well to avoid coming into a discussion you can add nothing to. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Crysthaniel(m): 10:55pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
hoopernikao:Sorry |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 10:58pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Crysthaniel: The sorry accepted. Thanks. |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:01pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
hoopernikao:Just quote a verse where the word TRINITY is found written in the scriptures that's all! ![]() |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 11:03pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69:What is good for the goose they say ![]() |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:03pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
solite3: Haba Solite3! ![]() Shey na you abi someone else? You said on this same thread "TRINITY doesn't mean Jesus and Jehovah are the same person" |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 11:05pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69: You havent answered me since beginning of this thread when i asked you to show me where Jesus is called an Angel (Michael) in the scriptures. You need to provide that first. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:07pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69:Trinity is found in the scriptures but the name is not written, 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:09pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus show where Jesus is called Angel micheal in the bible, |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:10pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
hoopernikao: I think Abraham, Saul, David, Joab, were all called Lord in the scriptures so Paul was right! 1Cor 8:5 And since Jesus came to set a perfect example for us to follow, i think he worshiped the person we should all worship which can never be himself! 1Peter 2:21 ![]() 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:17pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
hoopernikao: That makes it easier to tell you that since TRINITY is not found written in the scriptures and Jesus wasn't directly called Michael as well, both teaching was based on reasoning from the scriptures! ![]() So go and work on your TRINITY to unite adherents of your TRINITY God to form a global family of peace lovers. Jehovah's Witnesses will go and work on Jesus (Michael) to unite adherents of the teaching to form a global family of peace lovers. Jesus (Prince of Peace) himself said "by their FRUIT you will know them" Matthew 7:16-20 ![]() 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:22pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Excellent! ![]() TATIME: |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 11:24pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
TATIME: Everyone called Lord in the bible have context to it. The word Lord means owner, the one who has control, the one i submit my desire to. Abraham was called Lord by Sarah, as Abraham was her authority, her control. Same as those who Abraham owns. Saul/David was called Lord, same as we can call rulers Lord, because of their influence and authority over their people. Now why is Jesus called Lord. Let me give you the quote you submitted 1 Cor 8:5 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Note that he separated Jesus from many lords. Many lords will include Abraham, Saul, heavenly and earthly etc. Masters. Verse 6 pointed you that we have only one Lord, who is Jesus. That is in parallel to one God. He separated Jesus from the lords. and called him Lord (one Lord) A modification of the verses will be. ...as there be gods many, But to us there is but one God ...as there be lords many, But to us there is but one Lord, Christ. Note that in this context he is speaking about absolute authority. Who you submit your life to, who controls and own you. So, we have ONE GOD identified from the many gods, that is clear. The question i will now ask based on this is: How many Lord does a believer has. from what Paul is teaching. So, 1. How many Lord do you have? 2. Who is that Lord? 2 Likes |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 11:40pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69: Lol. Good you can agree that Jesus wasnt call Angel in the bible same as we dont have the word Trinity in the Bible. But what you should know is that as Trinity is called a concept, it needs explanation. A concept doesnt mean the word exist, it simply means the expression was taught or explained. This is different from calling Jesus Angel, that is not a concept but a being. Hence, there is little room for you to explain that out without having direct citation. Every name Jesus is called, we have direct citation for it. So, you cant explain that away. And like i have affirmed here, the one who preaches trinity have more scriptures to show, even if it is arguable base of knowledge. But the one who preaches Jesus as Angel will have to wrestle scriptures out to have such meaning. The last time i asked for a scripture for Jesus as Angel, out of 5 that was wrongly quoted, only 2 has a direct mention of Jesus and angel, one of which used "voice of". The others does not even come close. Now, looking at those two in context they still fail to justify such explanation. But in a single scripture Jesus, the child (JESUS) was called wonderful, counselor, mighty God, everlasting father. Arguably, these are words we can refer to call God too. Very explicit in the scriptures. Also note that Jesus was severally called Lord by those he owe nothing, neither them owe him, nor he feeds, nor usurp authority over. Yet they call him Lord. Only God owns our lives and can be called Lord in such context. So, not to go on and on, you cant succeed in defending what doesnt even have scriptural evidence in the first place. You can argue oneness of God against the concept of trinity, and have scriptures to examine but not as making Jesus as Angel. It has no root in the scriptures. 3 Likes |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 11:43pm On Jul 02, 2020 |
Maximus69:John 1v1 said Jesus is God, show where it is written that Jesus is Angel Michael. Trinity is just a concept used to describe God the father, Son and holy Spirit. Jesus is Angel Michael is not a concept but a claim that has no scripture backing, 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Ken4Christ: 12:09am On Jul 03, 2020 |
Peacefullove: The body was transformed by God. His blood was shed for the world. The new body is not sustained by blood. And all who believe in Jesus will also have their bodies changed like unto his glorious body when Jesus comes to take us to our heavenly abode. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Ken4Christ: 12:11am On Jul 03, 2020 |
KNOWMORE56: If you agree they are not Christians, then they can't also tell you the truth. So, don't believe whatever they tell you. They are full of lies. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by KNOWMORE56: 12:16am On Jul 03, 2020 |
Maximus69: Jesus says He isn't an idol. That angels and human beings that are serving Him are honoured by the Father. *. John 12: 26 " KJV:If any man SERVE ME, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man SERVE ME, him will MY FATHER HONOUR. QUESTIONS: 1. who will honour those serving your Jehovah? 2. Do you serve Jesus or Jehovah? 3. How do you serve Jesus? 4. Is there any verse of the scripture that says IF YOU SERVE JEHOVAH THE SON WILL HONOUR YOU? *. Psalms 2:12 "KJV: KISS THE SON, LEST HE BE ANGRY, AND YE PERISH FROM THE WAY, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by johnw47: 12:56am On Jul 03, 2020 |
solite3: DappaD and Maximus69 mock and blaspheme Father Son and Holy Spirit calling them "doghead" of course there reward is coming: Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by johnw47: 12:59am On Jul 03, 2020 |
Maximus69: DappaD: of course neither of you can challenge the truths that hoopernikao posted 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by KNOWMORE56: 1:02am On Jul 03, 2020 |
achorladey: I have thought about it and I can't find the reasons why someone would promote his church name above the name of Jesus. Every true evangelist preach and teach about the name JESUS! JWs would go about saying DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE TRUE GOD? Or WHICH GROUP IS DOING THE WILL OF JEHOVAH? Maximus 69 have promoted the organization more than Jesus. Which is not Biblical. Jesus only is our messages! 3 Likes |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by johnw47: 1:31am On Jul 03, 2020 |
KNOWMORE56 hoopernikao and some others very good 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by KNOWMORE56: 1:56am On Jul 03, 2020 |
Maximus69: Please, I need urgent explanation of HIS ATTRIBUTES ARE CLEARLY SEEN WHEN YOU KEEP OBSESSING HIS ORGANIZATION Is the organization the same thing as the Bible? Because it is in the Bible I want you to show me His attributes. In Galatians 5:22 I see something like THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT not fruit of the Jehovah. Are you a trinitarian,by taking the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT to mean FRUIT OF JEHOVAH? I understand what trinitarian are saying. No need to ask them. You are saying otherwise. Please, what are the attributes/features/characteristics/ properties of the ONLY TRUE GOD? 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by KNOWMORE56: 2:01am On Jul 03, 2020 |
Maximus69: You cut the rest of the post office . It talks about the organization and its followers: I think the JWs take misquoting, misinterpretations and misapplications of the word of God as a sport (i.e game). *. Proverbs 26:19 "KJV:So is the man that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, Am not I in SPORT? *. Isaiah 57:4 "KJV:Against whom do ye SPORT yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood. *. 2 Peter 2:13 "KJV:And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, SPORTING THEMSELVES with their own deceivings while they feast with you 1 Like |
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by KNOWMORE56: 2:43am On Jul 03, 2020 |
Maximus69: 'THEIR OWN CUP OF COFFEE' Angels/Stephen/Thomas/present day believers' own cup of coffee? ANGELS WORSHIP JESUS: *. REVELATION 5:8 " KJV:And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders FELL DOWN BEFORE THE LAMB, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. STEPHEN, FULL OF THE HOLY GHOST, PRAYED TO JESUS: *. Acts 7: 59 " KJV:And they stoned Stephen, CALLING UPON GOD, and saying, LORD JESUS, receive my spirit. 60 KJV:And he kneeled down, and CRIED WITH a LOUD VOICE, LORD, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. THOMAS CALLED JESUS MY LORD AND MY GOD: *. John 20:28 "KJV:And THOMAS answered and said unto him, MY LORD AND MY GOD. JESUS SAID HIMSELF IS THE TRUE GOD: *. Matthew 4:10 says "KJV:Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, AND HIM ONLY SHALT THOU SERVE. *. John 12:26 "KJV:If any MAN SERVE ME, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any MAN SERVE ME, him will my Father honour. NOTE, He said ONLY the Lord your God you will serve, He then said IF I SERVE Him the Father will honour ME. He didn't say 'God will honour him' in this verse but 'Father will honour him'. Because He had assumed His office as God in that verse. He said ONLY God you have to serve, and said afterward SERVE ME. In other words, He is saying I AM THE LORD THY GOD only whom you shall serve. I have shown you how the people were only saying 'it is the voice of God' and the man to whom they said it was killed by angel. What about the king of Babylon? He was at a point referred to as king of Kings. He spent some years in the bush for giving himself the glory due God. God said and meant it that He won't give His glory to another. But you and your organization want to force us to believe that Jesus is another. Acts 12:22 "KJV:And the people gave a shout, saying, It IS THE VOICE OF A GOD, and not of a man. 23 KJV:And immediately the ANGEL OF THE LORD SMOTE HIM, BECAUSE HE GAVE NOT GOD THE GLORY: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost. Maximus 69, the word translated a god in acts 12:22 is the same with the one in John 1:1. Whether human beings translated it 'a god' or 'God' Heaven knows it means the true God! GOD CAN NEVER GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER! JESUS IS NOT ANOTHER!! *. ISAIAH 47:11 " KJV:For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY UNTO ANOTHER. *. Acts 12: 23 " KJV:And immediately THE ANGEL OF THE LORD SMOTE HIM, BECAUSE HE GAVE NOT GOD THE GLORY: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost. That which angels are doing, Thomas did, Stephen did, Paul and Peter did; that is what I'm doing. 1 Like |
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