Justification By Faith Vs Works! - Religion - Nairaland
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Apostle Paul Vs James (faith Vs Work) What Did Jesus Really Teach? / Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith / Book Of Galatians (The "Righteous" Shall Live by Faith) (2) (3) (4)
| Justification By Faith Vs Works! by ichuka(m): 3:57pm On Jul 11, 2020 |
Romans4 says that Abraham was justified by faith, and James2 says He was justified by works. How do we explain these two kinds of justification? |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by Kobojunkie: 5:04pm On Jul 11, 2020 |
Fath is a collection of all the works done in obedience/submission to God's Word , serving as evidence/justification of one's claim to believe. My belief is that... Demons belief in God too, so what sets the belief in God, as claimed by men, from that claimed by demons?  Faith does. This is not to say that demons don't have faith, but their kind of faith is not measured in the same way man's faith is. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by delkuf(m): 5:20pm On Jul 11, 2020 |
ichuka:We are indeed justify by faith but faith without work is dead. We need a working faith to live in this world. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by ichuka(m): 11:41pm On Jul 11, 2020 |
delkuf:Gen15:6 ..New International Version Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness. bro righteous Abraham only believed in God's word,he didn't perform any good works initially before he became a righteous man in God's sight. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by ichuka(m): 11:45pm On Jul 11, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:so bro you are saying that the theft on the cross also did some works before he entered paradise? |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by Kobojunkie: 11:50pm On Jul 11, 2020 |
ichuka: Abraham, Noah, Enoch, lived during a time when God had not adequately laid down the rules on such things ... before the Law of Sin and death. That could explain why they were justified by the work they did showing faith in God. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by tobechi20(m): 3:41am On Jul 12, 2020 |
Paul chained Jesus teaching |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by Kobojunkie: 4:06am On Jul 12, 2020 |
tobechi20:Was it Paul or were His letters edited though? That is what I want to believe. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by Kobojunkie: 4:07am On Jul 12, 2020 |
ichuka:The thief on the cross likely died before Jesus Christ so whatever rule applied to those who died before Salvation was ratified, yeah that would apply to him as well, I believe. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by delkuf(m): 5:22am On Jul 12, 2020 |
ichuka:How did Abraham believed God. He believed God when he was ready to offer Isaac is only son as a sacrifice. He believed God when God told him to leave his father and mother and go to a country he never knew. a place he haven't been to. My brother if this is how Abraham believed in God that means he worked for it. if he remained in his home town and didn't go canaanland would he have been counted righteous today. if he had refuse to offer Isaac as a sacrifice, will you be singing Abraham blessings are mine. Abraham worked after he believed. Don't get carried away by thinking you just have to believe. when you believe put it to work. like my Bishop use to say it is only faith that is put to work that will work 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by delkuf(m): 5:26am On Jul 12, 2020 |
ichuka:He worked by believing. 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 5:26am On Jul 12, 2020 |
You can be justified by faith if you have done some honest work and patiently waiting for results/answers.. That's faith 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by Finallydead: 5:54am On Jul 12, 2020 |
tobechi20: Kobojunkie:You would have to be greatly misguided to believe Paul ever changed the Lord's teaching. Can you show a single instance of this? This is why only the Spirit can help you understand the scripture not your carnal mind. (1Cor2:14). Your carnal mind would lead you into grave errors like this one. Ichuka, you simply are justified by the works which faith alone can produce in a man and I think you already know this. 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by Finallydead: 5:55am On Jul 12, 2020 |
oops |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 6:12am On Jul 12, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:Demon(s) believe and tremble, but purposefully refuse to do work that will give them salvation ichuka: Kobojunkie: delkuf:"42Then he (i.e. the thief) said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” 43And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”" - Luke 23:42-43 "For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved." - Romans 10:10 "I tell you the truth, everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, the Son of Man will also acknowledge in the presence of God’s angels." - Luke 12:8 The thief confessed with his mouth, which led to him be saved and to meet Jesus in paradise, that very day, later on. helinues:"God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." - 2 Corinthians 5:21 Abraham willingness and/or preparedness earned him a mention, a place and/or position in the greatly desired or enviable Hebrews chapter eleven "Hall of faith" or "Faith Hall of fame". The giants in the corridor of the enviable Hebrews chapter eleven "Hall of faith" or "Faith Hall of fame" exercised one kind faith of the other that was taken by God to qualify as a semblance of righteousness acceptable to Him. These great men and women of Hebrews chapter eleven "Hall of faith" or "Faith Hall of fame" didnt have the benefit of 2 Corinthians 5:21 above, that we are enjoying but they saw far, just what the thief on the cross as well saw, believed, publicly acknowledged and confessed 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 6:15am On Jul 12, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: 1 Like
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| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 6:19am On Jul 12, 2020 |
ichuka:Justification, is not a one trick pony. You first climb and sit on the Justification pony, with belief/believing (i.e. having faith), a noun, then you ride it by works (i.e. demonstrate the belief) a verb or actions 2 Likes |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 6:21am On Jul 12, 2020 |
helinues:Big man like you don't understand simple and elementary bible 101 things like this, huh? What part(s) specifically don't you understand? 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 6:26am On Jul 12, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Every part (s) 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 6:31am On Jul 12, 2020 |
helinues: helinues:"23Jesus replied, “Why do you say ‘if you can’? Anything is possible for someone who has faith!” 24At once the boy's father shouted, “I do have faith! Please help me to have even more.”" - Mark 9:23-24 If I honestly go in front of my microwave and patiently wait for the Nairaland web page to load up on it. Will my faith be justified? Will I have results/answers of a Nairaland web page appear before me anywhere on the microwave? There is little faith, there is pseudo/false faith, there is weak faith, there is ignored faith, there is having no faith, there is room for more faith, there is et cetera faith 1 Like |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 6:33am On Jul 12, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: You can be justified by faith if you have done some honest work You probably missed that part... |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 6:41am On Jul 12, 2020 |
helinues: helinues:No I didnt miss the "some honest work" part. If I did, I wouldn't have typed, if I honestly go in front of my microwave and patiently wait for the Nairaland web page to load up on it. Will my faith be justified? Will I have results/answers of a Nairaland web page appear before me anywhere on the microwave? It looks like a great faith and a plausible good thing to do, to go patiently wait in front of my microwave for a Nairaland web page to load up somewhere on it, but the rule governing how web pages are loaded wasn't followed. Having great faith to cross a 16 lanes busy motor expressway without using the designated pedestrian bridge will be foolhardy, potentially have fatal consequence and is not necessarily real, good or great faith |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 6:46am On Jul 12, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: All those listed Faiths are not honest faith to start with... When having faith/believe about something, you must be realistic |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 6:56am On Jul 12, 2020 |
helinues:I have read of moG, walking into a lion cage believing no harm will befall him. I have read of moG, larking about with poisonous snakes, because they believed no harm would befall him but he got bitten and soon after died from the snake venom. Are you saying all both these men were dishonest or insincere, hmm? helinues:1/ How do you measure and/or determine realistic? 2/ How do you know what is sensible enough and practical to achieve or not achieve? |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 6:59am On Jul 12, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: When you are consciously aware of almost everything around you (Chakra/Third Eye), then your sense of judgement will change and be able to differentiate between being realistic or optimistic... Apart from God ( Forces), I have no expectations from anyone.. If there is any, it's only a plus... |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 7:12am On Jul 12, 2020 |
helinues:As I previously have said, I have read of a "moG", walking into a lion cage, believing no harm will befall him, but the lion inside the cage made a good dinner of him I have read of a "moG", larking about with a poisonous snake, because he believed no harm would befall him but he got bitten and soon after died from the snake venom. I have walked into a waiting room, saw a chair I thought I could comfortably sit on, only for it to collapse under my weight upon settling down in it. Are you saying both these men were dishonest or insincere in their faith, hmm? Are you saying, my faith in the chair, that collapsed under my weight was not honest to start with? You know in the world, there's is something called "calculated risk", when it comes to a God approved faith, there is something akin to that terminology. There are governing principles that makes faith be realistic. Optimism, too does help, it is a means to the end, optimism is an ingredient that facilitates realistic faith, it isn't the real deal nor the real McCoy. Faith, is a gift from God. Faith is, God given. Faith, comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God or through a saying of God. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 7:20am On Jul 12, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Bro, are average Nigerian pastors being realistic? If yes, one of them should have cured the Corona patients. If all dreams come true, then everybody for rich.. There are forces( unseen), more like black hole which authorize events accidentally or coincidentally.... Go and study chakra and first know about yourself before talking about others you know nothing about.. Beliefs are accumulation of facts stored in the subconscious mind. When you are being honest with yourself, then your level of beliefs about anything will increase. This is not just saying, it is what has been working for me |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by ichuka(m): 7:30am On Jul 12, 2020 |
The Scripture speaks of two kinds of justification: one is justification by faith, and the other is justification by works. Acts 13:39 says, “And from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, in this One everyone who believes is justified.” Romans 3:28 says, “For we account that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.” These verses by Paul clearly show us that justification is by faith. First Corinthians 4:4 says, “For I am conscious of nothing against myself; but I am not justified in this, but He who examines me is the Lord.” The primary difference between this verse and the two previous verses is that it refers to being rewarded before the judgment seat of Christ. The meaning of justification in this verse is a reward for good works. This verse is also by Paul. He speaks of justification by faith, on one hand, and justification by works, on the other hand. The Bible speaks of the matter of reward when referring to justification by works and also mentions justification by works in the midst of justification by faith. Let us read about this. We know that the books of Romans and Galatians speak of justification by faith, whereas the book of James speaks of justification by works. Some may think that Paul’s words about justification by faith alone were not fully adequate; therefore, James had to fill up the lack by speaking about justification by works. But this concept is not accurate, because the books of Romans and Galatians had not been written when James wrote his Epistle. In Romans Paul tells us that justification is by faith. He feared that some might not know what God had done, what Christ had accomplished, and how effective the precious blood was. They might have thought that just believing was insufficient and that there was an additional need for man’s works in order to be saved. Therefore, Paul used the case of Abraham to show that justification is by faith. James, however, also used the case of Abraham in speaking about justification by works. Consequently, we can see that there is a close relationship between justification by faith and justification by works. Paul and James actually spoke about the same thing; their words are not contradictory. Let's see their relationship to each other and how these two portions of Scripture are connected. Rom4:2-3says For if Abraham was justified out of works, he has something to boast in, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness.’” Verses 9 and 10 say, “Is this blessing then upon the circumcision only, or also upon the uncircumcision? For we say, Faith was accounted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was in circumcision or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.” This portion of the Word tells us that even before Abraham was circumcised, he was justified by faith. The Jews regarded circumcision as the most important act. In the eyes of the Jews, uncircumcised Gentiles were as swine and dogs. Yet before Abraham was circumcised, he was justified by faith. Verse 11 says, “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while in uncircumcision, that he might be the father of all those in uncircumcision who believe, that righteousness might be accounted to them also.” Circumcision is like a seal stamped by God, which declares that one is justified by faith and that nothing will change this fact. The reason God required Abraham to be circumcised was not so that He could justify Abraham by this act; a seal was stamped on him in order to declare that nothing would change the matter of his justification by faith. Even if Abraham had not offered up Isaac later, he still would have been justified by faith. Therefore, we can be assured that once we are justified by faith, we are securely justified. Verse 12 says, “And the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision.” This shows that being circumcised required faith, because Abraham was justified by faith before he was circumcised. Romans proves that a sinner cannot be justified by the works of law. Galatians proves that a believer cannot be sanctified by the works of law. We are both justified by faith and sanctified by faith. If we have begun by the Spirit, how can we be perfected by the flesh? In any case, the seal has been stamped, and those who are of faith are blessed together with believing Abraham. We would see James 2 later today 2 Likes |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by MuttleyLaff: 7:35am On Jul 12, 2020 |
helinues:[img]https://media./images/14cd04951335766288c672c30e186f98/tenor.gif[/img] Why should pastors have cured the Corona patients? Why not you? Why are you excluding yourself? Why aren't you stepping up for the challenge? helinues:Unfortunately, not all dreams come true and so why we always have the poor with us helinues:We are handed different playing cards from the deck in life, so don't get self conceited please helinues:How did you get to conclude I haven't studied chakra and that I don't already know about myself, huh?  helinues:I am pleased you acknowledge this fact and truth helinues:I am sure you are the sort of person who believes your being literally can fly helinues:List a few benefits to mankind, at least ten, from what's been working for you, and that has especially improved quality of lives in Naija as well. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by AntiChristian: 8:07am On Jul 12, 2020 |
Bible says: Romans 10:9 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Galatians 2:16,21 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.... 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" These verses contradict with these verses from the bible... James 2:14 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? James 2:17 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. James 2:24 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by Nobody: 8:09am On Jul 12, 2020 |
ichuka: Abraham was justified by his Faith in the Lord before God but his works justified his faith. Abraham's works made is faith known before men, any faith that produces no works is a dead faith. A dead faith is not a saving faith, hence it is called a dead faith. Demons believe there is God but they do not believe in that God, hence believing there is God is not true faith, even pagans believe there is God but do not believe in him. It takes a man of Faith to obey God like Abraham, works are very important because it reveals whether one is saved or not. If one is living in sin or in rebellion against God then such person is not saved no matter the claim of such a one. |
| Re: Justification By Faith Vs Works! by helinues: 8:30am On Jul 12, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff:  You might need to shape the accumulation of facts/information stored in your subconscious mind... They are feeble |
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