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Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Dtruthspeaker: 6:31pm On Jul 11, 2020
sonmvayina:


So you tell me what you got from what they have said so far?.. I am waiting..

You said you wished to Know, now I am taking through the natural process of acquiring knowledge known to you but you fled from it, but now you are back.

I can show you if you want and it is you who would come to your own judgment for yourself but at anytime you do not wish to continue, just say the words and I would not continue.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 6:32pm On Jul 11, 2020
sonmvayina:


What's your own take on the discussion?.. I can see you are eager to contribute..

I am actually more interested in the responses you get to your questions, and have already stated my opinion as you can clearly see and responded to. But since you ask, only children, the growing, the immature, fools and demons, believe. The mature grownups require evidence so they actually know.

My detailed opinion on the subject is in the following threads.

https://www.nairaland.com/5123700/disbelieve-know

https://www.nairaland.com/5178192/questions-budaatum-how-follow-jesus

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11663600_20200604102351774_jpeg_jpeg0a6707a5c919e2761327fab9920679aa
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 6:36pm On Jul 11, 2020
sonmvayina:


So you tell me what you got from what they have said so far?.. I am waiting..
Pity that you wait. Sounds so lazy of you indeed.

https://www.nairaland.com/5212874/preaching-work-based-salvation

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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Dtruthspeaker: 6:36pm On Jul 11, 2020
sonmvayina:


Yes oh, my house is fenced and I use iron gates too.. Who be the person.. I get my shakabula with two mouth...
Tell me who be the person..

Yes, you have taken care of the physical ones that you have seen like everyone else is doing, but now, it is Reported that This Dangerous Person Can not be seen, would you be concerned about a danger which you can not see?
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 6:50pm On Jul 11, 2020
Dtruthspeaker:


Yes, you have taken care of the physical ones that you have seen like everyone else is doing, but now, it is Reported that This Dangerous Person Can not be seen, would you be concerned about a danger which you can not see?

Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Dtruthspeaker: 6:59pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:

Been following your answers. Care to tell us the who or those who reported about the dangerous person?

Also why you decided to listen and act on their report out of the many stories of dangerous things that cannot be seen but capable of killing?

Yes, I will, but right now my position on this issue is quite clear and obvious enough, so I am really not under examination but it is him who wishes to Know why I hold my position and the only way he can fully appreciate and comprehend it, is that I think it better for him to see it himself using his own natural world, not mine.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Nobody: 7:03pm On Jul 11, 2020
The Knowledge of God can lead to Faith in him,the gospel gives knowledge of whom God really is
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Dtruthspeaker: 7:06pm On Jul 11, 2020
solite3:
The Knowledge of God can lead to Faith in him,the gospel gives knowledge of whom God really is

He says no Bible, so you have to use Natural daily living or something outside to the Bible to explain to him.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 7:15pm On Jul 11, 2020
sonmvayina:


I was asking them what they know about their god.... What knowledge do they hold about it?
Below is one place to begin to learn about gods.

budaatum:
Download free copy of ESV in audio

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11514526_notable02251_jpeg9644633f25fabfb7cc4599eb3e433e47

But bear in mind that those who read only one book will become malnourished, an indication of which is believing instead of seeking to know.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 7:21pm On Jul 11, 2020
Dtruthspeaker:


He says no Bible, so you have to use Natural daily living or something outside to the Bible to explain to him.
If he says no Bible (and I pressume he means 'no god books' too), then he does not want to know. For where else does one begin knowing about gods if not from the god books?

The alternative is to learn from the god people who can only tell him what he should believe unless he knows how to recognise godly fruits and learn from those.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 7:28pm On Jul 11, 2020
[quote author=budaatum post=91615688]
If he says no Bible (and I pressume he means 'no god books' too), then he does not want to know. For where else does one begin knowing about gods if not from

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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Kobojunkie: 7:33pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:


Are god books written by gods?

Are books tagged god books really god books?

Are they god books because it is written in their cover god books?

Shouldn't there be another means of knowing about gods outside books written by fellow imperfect men?
You take what is written, follow the recipe/commandments, and test the results by comparing actual with expected. undecided
That is a good way to arrive at a knowing, don't you think? undecided

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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 7:45pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:


Are god books written by gods?

Are books tagged god books really god books?

Are they god books because it is written in their cover god books?

Shouldn't there be another means of knowing about gods outside books written by fellow imperfect men?
First note that the thread is asking about belief and knowledge.

God books, like all books, are clearly written by human beings. They are god books to those who consider them to be god books not by their cover but by their content. And since they are about gods, I don't see why they should not be classified as such.

Here, by the way, is a god book that preceded the Bible and the Quran. Some believed its content while many read it for understanding and knowledge. It is still required reading by some who seek deep understanding and knowledge of the gods, and humans.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 7:50pm On Jul 11, 2020
[quote author=Kobojunkie post=91616117] You take what is written, follow the recipe/commandments, and test the results by comparing actual with expected. undecided
That is a good way to arrive at a knowing, don't you
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Kobojunkie: 7:57pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:
Yea...that seem to work with certain areas of life where the procedure and everything required is constant.
Constant? In life?

sotall:

Also the procedure to verify the genuineness of such a god should be direct and easy to and shouldn't involve distorting the sanity of the verifier.
obviously!

sotall:

For example it is written in the bible the children of Israel were tired of hearing from God through Moses and demanded they want to see him. It is written God asked Moses to come with them to a particular mountain.
What? undecided
You mean the same Children of God who were too afraid of hearing from God and decided He speak through Moses instead? undecided

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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 8:00pm On Jul 11, 2020
Kobojunkie:
Constant? In life?

obviously!

What? undecided
You mean the same Children of God who were too afraid of hearing from God and decided He speak through Moses instead? undecided
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 8:04pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:


I am not interested in whatever reaction they had. I particularly liked the arrangement. You want to see God?
Just come to the mountain and meet him.

If for anything, they went back with their curiosity satisfied
But they got to the bottom of the mountain and were afraid to go up and see God, showing they lacked the balls to see the evidence and thereby becoming mere believers in whatever Moses told them!
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Kobojunkie: 8:05pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:

I am not interested in whatever reaction they had. I particularly liked the arrangement. You want to see God?
Just come to the mountain and meet him.

If for anything, they went back with their curiosity satisfied
Do you have scriptural reference for this story please?

I have read stories written by people who are into the occults. Many of them started off skeptics but became believers after doing precisely what I have suggested.
If you are really in search of answers, what have you really got to loose?
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 8:09pm On Jul 11, 2020
budaatum:

But they got to the bottom of the mountain and were afraid to go up and see God, showing they lacked the balls to see the evidence and thereby becoming mere believers in whatever Moses told them!
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 8:22pm On Jul 11, 2020
[quote author=Kobojunkie post=91617104] Do you have scriptural reference for this story please?

I have read stories written by people who are into the occults. Many of them started off skeptics but became believers after doing precisely what I have suggested.
If you are really in search of answers, what have you really got to
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 8:25pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:

I wouldn't say they lacked courage to go see God. The human body has limitations. For example there is a limit to the level of sound that the ear can take without damage. Also there is a limit to the amount of light the eyes can see without damage.

Remember it was written that there was thunder and lightning on that occasion. That definitely scared them.
They obviously lacked something, and the fact that they were scared suggests it was courage that they lacked. And they believed Moses. We, however, have evolved. Listen to you and op questioning what some claim to have seen up the mountain. You would never believe Moses nor would you believe me, as you very rightly ought not to. This whole thread screams "prove what you saw", and two intelligent responders have so far said, "go up the mountain and see for yourselves".

Would I be correct if I say some are too scared to go up the mountain to see for themselves so they too can know, instead of remaining at the bottom refusing to know and merely believing (or disbelieving), and thereby trembling in fear?
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 8:30pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:


Read Exodus 19 from verse 1.


Bring in the suggestions, I will really consider them.
Neither Moses nor God wrote Exodus 19, and no one went up the mountain with Moses in Exodus 19. Could you therefore explain why you seem to literally believe the story without questioning the source, to start with? Questioning is after all how you'd learn.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Dtruthspeaker: 8:32pm On Jul 11, 2020
budaatum:

If he says no Bible (and I pressume he means 'no god books' too), then he does not want to know. For where else does one begin knowing about gods if not from the god books?

The alternative is to learn from the god people who can only tell him what he should believe unless he knows how to recognise godly fruits and learn from those.

Another alternative is to show him his own life and living for him to analyse for himself through good reasoning, which he can therefore come to his own judgement of what is in front of him.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 8:35pm On Jul 11, 2020
budaatum:

They obviously lacked something, and the fact that they were scared suggests it was courage that they lacked. And they believed Moses. We, however, have evolved. Listen to you and op questioning what some claim to have seen up the mountain. You would never believe Moses nor would you believe me, as you very rightly ought not to. This whole thread screams "prove what you saw", and two intelligent responders have so far said, "go up the mountain and see for yourselves".

Would I be correct if I say some are too scared to go up the mountain to see for themselves so they too can know, instead of remaining at the bottom refusing to know and merely believing (or disbelieving), and thereby trembling in fear?
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 8:43pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:


Not sure they lacked courage. As humans, there is an amount of the various form of energy we can tolerate.

On the various occasions Moses encountered God, it wasn't on record there was thunder and lightning. For if there was thunder and lightning, Moses too would have been scared. I believe it was God's intent to make them scared for he hates rebellion.

Same scenario played out when the children of Israel demanded they need a king and got Saul to lead them. At the end, their choice ended up a disaster.
Do we really need to argue that being scared and afraid to the point that you can't go forward means you lack courage?

You should wonder why Moses had courage despite being scared. Also note that only a bush burned and there was no lightning nor thunder.

Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:6
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 8:46pm On Jul 11, 2020
[quote author=budaatum post=91617802]
Neither Moses nor God wrote Exodus 19, and no one went up the mountain with Moses in Exodus 19. Could you therefore explain why you seem to literally believe the story without questioning the source, to start with? Questioning is after all how you'd

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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 8:56pm On Jul 11, 2020
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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 8:59pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:


As for me, the bible is just like every other book I have read. I dont believe many of the stories there in happened. Though it is the only God book I have read because I was born into a Christian home and I believed everything I read there while growing up. But later discovered many of my curiosity questions couldn't be answered by it, I knew it was time to move on.
I too don't believe. And the Bible is not my first god book nor was I taught to believe, but to use my own senses to see and understand and know, which does make a difference.

You, however, are actually a believer. You believe instead of confronting what you observe with your own senses. You indeed believe you moved on but the evidence - you, here, discussing what you believe you moved on from - clearly suggests otherwise.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by budaatum: 9:11pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:
yea, they lacked courage. But their lack of courage was instigated by God. More like a reflex action..like being scared to death.
As for Moses, it makes sense to assume he was immune by God to the thunder and lightning.

That's my opinion or conclusion from reading the story.
Believers tend to create crap in their heads and claim it is what happened and is true, though if they could be honest with themselves, they'd accept they are ignorant and know not of what they speak.

You, for instance, believe "their lack of courage was instigated by God", and you believe Moses, "was immune by God to the thunder and lightning". But the truth is, you have not got a clue why some lacked courage that some seem to have had, and your belief stops you from delving deeper so you may understand.

Its like the [url=https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_center_of_the_Universe%23Earth_as_the_center_of_the_Universe&ved=2ahUKEwj87OPVgMbqAhXUasAKHacGDGoQygQwC3oECAIQBg&usg=AOvVaw2tlZQtcvmQdvDf0HjEVbIe]one time belief that the earth was the centre of the universe[/url] stopped some from knowing what might be the centre of the universe. Belief is also what makes some hold on to the ideology of a flat earth despite all the existing evidence to the contrary.
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by MuttleyLaff: 9:19pm On Jul 11, 2020
budaatum:
Do we really need to argue that being scared and afraid to the point that you can't go forward means you lack courage?

You should wonder why Moses had courage despite being scared. Also note that only a bush burned and there was no lightning nor thunder.

Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:6

sotall:
yea, they lacked courage. But their lack of courage was instigated by God. More like a reflex action..like being scared to death.
As for Moses, it makes sense to assume he was immune by God to the thunder and lightning.

That's my opinion or conclusion from reading the story.
"1In the third month, on the same day of the montha that the Israelites had left the land of Egypt, they came to the Wilderness of Sinai.
2After they had set out from Rephidim, they entered the Wilderness of Sinai, and Israel camped there in front of the mountain.
3Then Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain, “This is what you are to tell the house of Jacob and explain to the sons of Israel:
4‘You have seen for yourselves what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself.
5Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations—for the whole earth is Mine.
6And unto Me you shall be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to speak to the Israelites.”
7So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.
8And all the people answered together, “We will do everything that the LORD has spoken.”
So Moses brought their words back to the LORD.
9The LORD said to Moses, “Behold, I will come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear when I speak with you, and they will always put their trust in you.”
And Moses relayed to the LORD what the people had said.
10Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. They must wash their clothes
11and be prepared by the third day, for on the third day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.
12And you are to set up a boundary for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful not to go up on the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.
13No hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with arrows—whether man or beast, he must not live.’
Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain.”
14When Moses came down from the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and they washed their clothes.
15“Be prepared for the third day,” he said to the people. “Do not draw near to a woman.”
16On the third day, when morning came, there was thunder and lightning. A thick cloud was upon the mountain, and a very loud blast of the ram’s horn went out, so that all the people in the camp trembled.
17Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.
18Mount Sinai was completely enveloped in smoke, because the LORD had descended on it in fire. And the smoke rose like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked violently.
19And as the sound of the ram’s horn grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him in the thunder.
20The LORD descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the summit. So Moses went up,
21and the LORD said to him, “Go down and warn the people not to break through to see the LORD, lest many of them perish.
22Even the priests who approach the LORD must consecrate themselves, or the LORD will break out against them.”
23But Moses said to the LORD, “The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, for You solemnly warned us, ‘Put a boundary around the mountain and set it apart as holy.’”
24And the LORD replied, “Go down and bring Aaron with you. But the priests and the people must not break through to come up to the LORD, or He will break out against them.”
25So Moses went down to the people and spoke to them"
- Exodus 19:1-25

Exodus 19:12-13 is one of the reasons why the Israelites didnt have the courage to go near or up the mountain
Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by sotall(m): 9:21pm On Jul 11, 2020
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Re: Believe In God Vs Knowledge Of God by Dtruthspeaker: 9:25pm On Jul 11, 2020
sotall:


Believing without the use of the senses is one of the attributes that drove me from christianity. For it doesn't make sense to use my senses to live rightly but christianity demands I shut my senses including my brain and thinking faculty which I find ridiculous.

As for discussing christianity and the bible, it's the only religion I have practiced and have good knowledge on. So that's why I always cite my examples from there when discussing religion.

As for moving on, it ain't an easy move to do. For something I have been involved in since childhood and even till my twenties, its gonna take more than a lifetime to cleanse myself from its indoctrination. I am making progress

You were wrongly Taught, for if you had read the Bible for yourself, indeed you would have seen the use of the senses all over the place.

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