MightySparrow:
So, Moses approved: Paul on his own.

Moses was mostly recorded as speaking the word of God. If you read the stories again, you will see that He barely had a life of his own to speak of.

MightySparrow:
So, Moses approved: Paul on his own.

More than 80% of the words recorded for Moses fit the pattern of "Words out of the Mouth of God". Paul on the other hand, no. Plus, There is nothing for anyone to teach after Jesus Christ. All the apostles were required to do was PREACH what had already been taught and nothing more

Matthew 23 vs 8-12
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8. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c]
9. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you shall be your servant.
12. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Kobojunkie:
Moses was mostly recorded as speaking the word of God. If you read the stories again, you will see that He barely had a life of his own to speak of.

Meaning paul was on his own, his writings not reliable - worthless of christian standard?

Kobojunkie:
More than 80% of the words recorded for Moses fit the pattern of "Words out of the Mouth of God". Paul on the other hand, no. Plus, There is nothing for anyone to teach after Jesus Christ. All the apostles were required to do was PREACH what had already been taught and nothing more

In the affirmative: Paul's writing and ministry not approved?

MightySparrow:
In the affirmative: Paul's writing and ministry not approved?

Did Jesus Christ lie? That is the question I ask anyone who has a doubt about what Jesus Christ said in those verses I posted earlier.
Here is what another apostle said about the same subject

1 John 3 vs 20-27 (ERV)
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20. You have the gift[a] that the Holy One[b] gave you. So you all know the truth.
21. Do you think I am writing this letter because you don’t know the truth? No, I am writing because you do know the truth. And you know that no lie comes from the truth.
22. So who is the liar? It is the one who says Jesus is not the Messiah. Whoever says that is the enemy of Christ—the one who does not believe in the Father or in his Son.
23. Whoever does not believe in the Son does not have the Father, but whoever accepts the Son has the Father too.

24. Be sure that you continue to follow the teaching you heard from the beginning. If you do that, you will always be in the Son and in the Father.
25. And this is what the Son promised us—eternal life.

26. I am writing this letter about those who are trying to lead you into the wrong way.
27. Christ gave you a special gift. You still have this gift in you. So you don’t need anyone to teach you. The gift he gave you teaches you about everything.It is a true gift, not a false one. So continue to live in Christ, as his gift taught you.

In my opinion, I think Paul wrote to present his own experience with other Christians. Rather than use his experience to compare to theirs, many have instead chosen to make a religion out of it, hence the division that is the church today, mostly built on different doctrines with every other pastor assuming themselves teachers, even when Jesus Christ warned against such.

Kobojunkie:

Did Jesus Christ lie? That is the question I ask anyone who has a doubt about what Jesus Christ said in those verses I posted earlier.
Here is what another apostle said about the same subject

In my opinion, I think Paul wrote to present his own experience to other Christians. Rather than use his experience to compare to theirs, many have instead chosen to make a religion out of it, hence the division that is the church today, mostly built on different doctrines with every other pastor assuming themself a teacher, even when Jesus Christ warned against such.

John wrote that not Jesus, how are you sure it is from Jesus?

MightySparrow:
John wrote that not Jesus, how are you sure it is from Jesus?

Because the first one I posted was Jesus Christ. This last one was John confirming what Jesus Christ said.

MightySparrow:
John wrote that not Jesus, how are you sure it is from Jesus?

And this one is God speaking of the New Covenant to come, that is Jesus Christ and how He, and He alone will teach His own about Himself.

Jeremiah 31 vs 31-34 (ERV)
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31. “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32. not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord.
33. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

God is not a liar... Jesus Christ, the word of God is the Truth. So, Yes, it is what Jesus Christ in fact taught.

Kobojunkie:
Because the first one I posted was Jesus Christ. This last one was John confirming what Jesus Christ said.

So none of paul's writing confirmed what Jesus said?

MightySparrow:
So none of paul's writing confirmed what Jesus said?

I won't say that because some of what I do agree with, given my own experiences. But there are so many questions. My suspicions are that his actual letters were edited. E.g 1 Corinthians 14, after the verses talking of the gifts, ending with something like, "God is not a God of confusion," there seems to be an abnormal leap to chastizing women on speaking.
And there are lots of disconnected ideas... disconnected from Jesus's teachings.... in the letters that make me wonder if his letters had been manipulated by some group who wanted to use his work to further their doctrine.

Kobojunkie:

And this one is God speaking of the New Covenant to come, that is Jesus Christ and how He, and He alone will teach His own about Himself.


God is not a liar... Jesus Christ, the word of God is the Truth. So, Yes, it is what Jesus Christ in fact taught.

... Paul is a liar

MightySparrow:
... Paul is a liar

Is Paul really responsible for the writings we attribute to his person? That is the question, I still have. So far, I don't believe any of those letters are 100% his, even though historians say only 5 letters are not.

Kobojunkie:
I won't say that because some of what I do agree with, given my own experiences. But there are so many questions. My suspicions are that his actual letters were edited. E.g 1 Corinthians 14, after the verses talking of the gifts, ending with something like, "God is not a God of confusion," there seems to be an abnormal leap to chastizing women on speaking.
And there are lots of disconnected ideas... disconnected from Jesus's teachings.... in the letters that make me wonder if his letters had been manipulated by some group who wanted to use his work to further their doctrine.

If you were in his shoes you'd probably do same. The church of corinth had problem at that time, he had to put some measures to make the church stable. So when you hold leadership position, you want to avoid crises. I see your point. After he left, there had arisen great women in the ministry the founders of Foursquare, Apostolic faith, women evangelists etc. read his writings.

MightySparrow:
If you were in his shoes you'd probably do same. The church of corinth had problem at that time, he had to put some measures to make the church stable. So when you hold leadership position, you want to avoid crises. I see your point. After he left, there had arisen great women in the ministry the founders of Foursquare, Apostolic faith, women evangelists etc. read his writings.

I don't believe I would have done the same, no.

Because if he indeed did this, he helped create the problem that is Christianity today... a world church that is not of God at all.

We are talking of a world church that runs almost entirely on doctrines and traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ warned vehemently against this. That is why the other apostles stayed away from such.

I find it hard to believe that someone with the Spirit of God leading and instructing Him would do this, against Jesus Christ's own teaching. Almost all church doctrines seem to have their roots, not in Jesus Christ's own teachings but in Paul's. Have you noticed that?

Kobojunkie:
I don't believe I would have done the same, no.
Because if he indeed did this, he helped create the problem that is Christianity today... a world church that is not of God at all. We are talking of a world church that runs almost entirely on doctrines and traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ warned vehemently against this. That is why the other apostles stayed away from such.
I find it hard that someone with the Spirit of God leading and instructing Him would do this, against Jesus Christ's own teaching. Almost all church doctrines seem to have their roots, not in Jesus Christ's own teachings but in Paul's. Have you noticed that?

Yet, you can't judge him, jesus himself called him and he's accountable to him. Apart from this do you still find other of his writings useful?

MightySparrow:
Yet, you can't judge him, jesus himself called him and he's accountable to him. Apart from this do you still find other of his writings useful?

Jesus Christ called Judas and we all know what Judas chose instead.

I don't judge Paul. I only hoped that so many are not blinded by his "teachings" that they choose to disregard the commandments of Jesus Christ in the name of Paul.

If you knew how many times I have posted the very words of Jesus Christ only to have someone post Paul's word as a rebuttal and how It breaks my heart that this person is blind to think that he/she can get around Jesus Christ's own Commandment, using a statement made by Paul.

Just because a person is called does not mean the person is "justified". No, it does not. That is why we ought to set our eyes on the one that matters and that is Jesus Christ.

Since many people see his letters as "Teachings" I stay clear of mentioning them so I don't fall into a doctrinal whole when trying to show what God says about any issue.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ called Judas and we all know what Judas chose instead. I don't judge Paul. I only hoped that so many are not blinded by his "teachings" that they choose to disregard the commandments of Jesus Christ in the name of Paul.

Just because a person is called does not mean the person is "justified". No, it does not. That is why we ought to set our eyes on the one that matters and that is Jesus Christ.

Since many people see his letters as "Teachings" I stay clear of mentioning them so I don't fall into a doctrinal whole when trying to show what God says about any issue.

Your Bible still have his writings anyways or have torn or cellotaped them?

MightySparrow:
Your Bible still have his writings anyways or have torn or cellotaped them?

ROFLMAO!
Of course, it is in there... Remember, the books you have there now aren't the only books that ever were in the book. I read the Apocrypha and Gnostic texts as well, for knowledge and all. I don't quote from then either.

MightySparrow:



Great.
I am surprised to note that this thread has been in existence since 2011 and no one commented. I read your topics, they border on spiritual things and power of God.
I was just looking for a write -up on fasted life and discovered one on my dear. Blog but was ashamed that no one commented. It dawn on me that most of on NL in this section are just here on unprofitable issues.

Not as u think... Go back and check the number of people the viewed it... Not everyone as something to say

Juliusmomoh:

Not as u think... Go back and check the number of people the viewed it... Not everyone as something to say

We were not this many when the thing was posted

It's the body that must be brought under. Those who live as their human nature tells them to, have their minds controlled by what human nature wants. Those who live as the Spirit tells them to, have their minds controlled by what the Spirit wants.

If all you do is feed your flesh, human nature with all it desires, then be rest assured that the Spirit man will be so dull. Fasting is a denial, which helps sharpens the Spirit since the body/human nature does not have the upper hand having been brought under.

Kobojunkie:
i am not teaching you. Simply telling you from what i have read and what i know of it that it is indeed about the body.

Think about it. Is the human spirit connected or attached to the human body that starving the body somehow affects or tames the spirit in some way?

If anything, shouldn't you have to discipline the spirit instead which controls the body?

Bodydialect57:
It's the body that must be brought under. Those who live as their human nature tells them to, have their minds controlled by what human nature wants. Those who live as the Spirit tells them to, have their minds controlled by what the Spirit wants.

If all you do is feed your flesh, human nature with all it desires, then be rest assured that the Spirit man will be so dull. Fasting is a denial, which helps sharpens the Spirit since the body/human nature does not have the upper hand having been brought under.

What do you mean by," if all you do is feed the flesh...."?

How exactly does fasting "sharpen" the Spirit?

How can the body be said to refer to human nature as far as fasting is concerned?

Kobojunkie:

What do you mean by," if all you do is feed the flesh...."?

Feeding the flesh here means satisfying your sense organs with anything desirable, like what you give your eyes to watch, mouth to feed on ear to hear and the likes. It means satisfying all your fleshy desires.

Kobojunkie:

How exactly does fasting "sharpen" the Spirit?

Fasting is a form of denial. If you deny your human nature of what it craves for, your spiritual antenna is well positioned to receive messages transmitted by the Holy Spirit.

Kobojunkie:

How can the body be said to refer to human nature as far as fasting is concerned?

The human nature is the adamic nature that always wants to take the lead if not tamed or brought under. Every act perpetrated by the human nature is relayed through the body. So, fasting is a way of bringing the body under control.
Galatians 5:16-17
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Kobojunkie:
I don't believe I would have done the same, no.
Because if he indeed did this, he helped create the problem that is Christianity today... a world church that is not of God at all. We are talking of a world church that runs almost entirely on doctrines and traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ warned vehemently against this. That is why the other apostles stayed away from such.
I find it hard that someone with the Spirit of God leading and instructing Him would do this, against Jesus Christ's own teaching. Almost all church doctrines seem to have their roots, not in Jesus Christ's own teachings but in Paul's. Have you noticed that?

Do you have the Spirit of God in you?

Bodydialect57:
It's the body that must be brought under. Those who live as their human nature tells them to, have their minds controlled by what human nature wants. Those who live as the Spirit tells them to, have their minds controlled by what the Spirit wants.

If all you do is feed your flesh, human nature with all it desires, then be rest assured that the Spirit man will be so dull. Fasting is a denial, which helps sharpens the Spirit since the body/human nature does not have the upper hand having been brought under.

Yes plus everytime you deny any of your own desires, be it by fasting or choices you make in daily living, it goes up as incense to heaven stored in heavenly vessels and when your incense vessel in heaven is full, you get an supply of His Spirit.

Kobojunkie:

What do you mean by," if all you do is feed the flesh...."?

Gratifying the desires of your soul(mind and heart)

How exactly does fasting "sharpen" the Spirit?

Faith is the means of receiving spiritual things from God. Our human desires stifle faith and keep us in faithlessness.
It is this kind of faithlessness stemming from carnal desires that gets dealt with by fasting. (Mat17:20-21)

How can the body be said to refer to human nature as far as fasting is concerned?

The body is not the human nature. Human nature lies in our soul and the body is just an outgrowth of human nature. But the appetites of the body also re-enforce the desires of our soul e.g. the pleasure your soul derives from a good meal merely intended to meet your body's needs.
So the body can be used to deny the soul pleasure as well, in fasting. (1Cor9:27)

Bodydialect57:

Feeding the flesh here means satisfying your sense organs with anything desirable, like what you give your eyes to watch, mouth to feed on ear to hear and the likes. It means satisfying all your fleshy desires.

Fasting is a form of denial. If you deny your human nature of what it craves for, your spiritual antenna is well positioned to receive messages transmitted by the Holy Spirit.

The human nature is the adamic nature that always wants to take the lead if not tamed or brought under. Every act perpetrated by the human nature is relayed through the body. So, fasting is a way of bringing the body under control.
Galatians 5:16-17
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Can you please drop the religious lingo and answer as plainly as you can so we deal with reality of things here.
Notice i mentioned in a previous post that fasting is not unique to chistianity as even witches,pagans,occultists, muslims, buddhists and sinners also fast.
Let's desist with the doctrines and focus instead of fasting as it truly is.

Fasting according to old practice before Isaiah 58 was simply denying body of food. In Isaiah 58 God expresses what He sees of our fasting,and what He wants instead. Today many Christians still fast the old way claiming some spiritual benefit, a benefit that God points out does not exist but in our minds , in Isaiah 58.

So let's dispense of the bullsheet lingo and focus on truth of fasting as we have each indeed experienced it

enthronedbyGod1:

Do you have the Spirit of God in you?

why do you ask?

Kobojunkie:
I don't believe I would have done the same, no.

Because if he indeed did this, he helped create the problem that is Christianity today... a world church that is not of God at all.

We are talking of a world church that runs almost entirely on doctrines and traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ warned vehemently against this. That is why the other apostles stayed away from such.

I find it hard to believe that someone with the Spirit of God leading and instructing Him would do this, against Jesus Christ's own teaching. Almost all church doctrines seem to have their roots, not in Jesus Christ's own teachings but in Paul's. Have you noticed that?

I read through your post about apostle Paul. As a matter of honesty, some of them were valid. It has always appeared to me that a lot of teachings in the new testament especially about the the way they lived their lives back then does not really sit well to our times.
But i don't think your criticism of apostle paul is fair.

He made it clear in his writings that he is in no way dividing the body of christ and also made it clearer that EVEN his own judgement he doesn't trust!!
He never claimed his teachings were Absolute! Infact what i love about the disciples is the only that was absolute about their teachings is Avoiding SIN.

Read below some of his writings that might might answer your question..
He says in corinthians 3 vs 4
When one of you says I am a follower of Paul, and another says I follow apollos, aren't you acting just like the people of the world? After all who is Paul, who is Apollos? We are only God's servant through whom you believed the good news. I planted and Apollos watered it, But it was the Almighty God that made it grow.

He then answers your question in chapter 4 vs 1
So look at Apollos and me as mere servants of Christ who been put in charge of explaining God's mysteries.

He says again as if directly countering your assertions about him in verse 3
As for me it matters very little how i might be evaluated by YOU or by any human authority.

Now concerning his writings about women that you mentioned above, he says EXTENSIVELY in verse 3 again:
I don't even trust my own judgement on this point, my conscience is clear, but that doesn't prove i am right. It is the lord himself who will examine me and decide.

My brother understand that the word of God is in truth and in power. in Corinthians 2 14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
No one is exempt to ignorance, not even born again Christians, but we are encouraged to grow from faith to faith, strength to strength and learn the hidden things of God. Paul is just a servant just like you and I. He demonstrated the power of God not in words alone but in spirit and in truth. We are encouraged not to be involved in unnecessary criticism, and vain talks as they do nothing than tear down the church which is YOU and I.

As Paul says I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. He was beheaded for Jesus.
As we learn from our fellow brethren who have died for Christ, just like you quoted, let us look unto Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith.
Let us strengthen the body of Christ in power and in truth in Jesus Name, Amen.

enthronedbyGod1
Bodydialect57
MightySparrow

nuttyhnic:
I read through your post about apostle Paul. As a matter of honesty, some of them were valid. It has always appeared to me that a lot of teachings in the new testament especially about the the way they lived their lives back then does not really sit well to our times.

Have an example of what you mean about the way they lived?

nuttyhnic:
But i don't think your criticism of apostle paul is fair.
He made it clear in his writings that he is in no way dividing the body of christ and also made it clearer that EVEN his own judgement he doesn't trust!!
He never claimed his teachings were Absolute! Infact what i love about the disciples is the only that was absolute about their teachings is Avoiding SIN.
Read below some of his writings that might might answer your question..
He says in corinthians 3 vs 4
When one of you says I am a follower of Paul, and another says I follow apollos, aren't you acting just like the people of the world? After all who is Paul, who is Apollos? We are only God's servant through whom you believed the good news. I planted and Apollos watered it, But it was the Almighty God that made it grow.
He then answers your question in chapter 4 vs 1
So look at Apollos and me as mere servants of Christ who been put in charge of explaining God's mysteries.

This does not address any actual assertions I have made on the letters of Paul though.

nuttyhnic:
He says again as if directly countering your assertions about him in verse 3
As for me it matters very little how i might be evaluated by YOU or by any human authority. Now concerning his writings about women that you mentioned above, he says EXTENSIVELY in verse 3 again:
I don't even trust my own judgement on this point, my conscience is clear, but that doesn't prove i am right. It is the lord himself who will examine me and decide.
My brother understand that the word of God is in truth and in power.

But what has this to do with the subject you raised? What about his "teachings" about women? What were you going to add on what Paul supposedly wrote on that?

nuttyhnic:
in Corinthians 2 14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
No one is exempt to ignorance, not even born again Christians, but we are encouraged to grow from faith to faith, strength to strength and learn the hidden things of God. Paul is just a servant just like you and I. He demonstrated the power of God not in words alone but in spirit and in truth. We are encouraged not to be involved in unnecessary criticism, and vain talks as they do nothing than tear down the church which is YOU and I.

Wait a second... I thought you were going to make a point of some sort about how Paul did not say or do what I suggested that he did, not excuses for his doing what he supposedly did.
Are you saying then that Paul's letters are in fact guilty of what I said he did??
I don't understand your line of reason here at all. Are you trying to show that what I said is wrong or are you simply here to cook up excuses for why Paul should not be faulted at all? Which one?

nuttyhnic:
As Paul says I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. He was beheaded for Jesus.
As we learn from our fellow brethren who have died for Christ, just like you quoted, let us look unto Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith.
Let us strengthen the body of Christ in power and in truth in Jesus Name, Amen.

I thought you were trying to tell me that I was wrong in my summation of the content of his letters, not make excuses or give reasons why the contradictory messages contained in the letters should be somehow overlooked because it is Paul.

[b]NB: [/b]The Word of God is truth, and that word of God is Jesus Christ -- the word out of the mouth of God. Paul's letters are not meant to be read as the truth of God. You verify what you read against the word of God, in this case, Jesus Christ's own words, to be sure of the truth or none of it.
Paul may have been an apostle but his words are not by default true and the only way you can verify the truth of it is if you consult the words of Jesus Christ who is in fact the truth of God.

Bodydialect57:
Feeding the flesh here means satisfying your sense organs with anything desirable, like what you give your eyes to watch, mouth to feed on ear to hear and the likes. It means satisfying all your fleshy desires.

Feeding the flesh as far as fasting is concerned simply refers to eating since fasting refers to denial of food to the physical body, and nothing more. There is nothing evil about eating.

Bodydialect57:
Fasting is a form of denial. If you deny your human nature of what it craves for, your spiritual antenna is well positioned to receive messages transmitted by the Holy Spirit.

Fasting is a form of denial... denying the human body of food that it craves. Nothing about eating and human nature though since even sinners can and do fast.

Bodydialect57:
The human nature is the adamic nature that always wants to take the lead if not tamed or brought under. Every act perpetrated by the human nature is relayed through the body. So, fasting is a way of bringing the body under control.
Galatians 5:16-17

Fasting has nothing to do with human nature but simply has to do with refusing the body food that it desires and/or needs when it desires it.

Bodydialect57:
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Walk in the spirit? You have completely deviated from the subject in all completeness.

Kobojunkie:
why do you ask?

Don't bother.