I'm awed that people are comparing Amazon to Tesla. In terms of scalability, you can never compare Amazon to Tesla.

Look at your household, look at your street, how many people have a product in relation to Microsoft vs Apple vs Amazon vs Tesla? These are honest questions we should be asking ourselves.

Microsoft is into software, hardware and cloud. Apple is into hardware, software and now venturing into portable devices, subscriptions e.t.c Amazon makes a whole lot of money from AWS, yet they are still working on their hardware series, eCommerce e.t.c

Please someone should tell me how you wanna compare Tesla to these companies in terms of scale.

Secondly Apple is an ecosystem, even though a typical MacBook may last you 5 years, you may buy iPhone in between, AirPod. I just got an iPad Pro and an Apple Pencil last month.

Tesla cannot operate at this scale. And while it's true that Tesla also has battery, ML, energy e.t.c in stock. The fundamentals that we all see today does not justify it's current price even with all these future potentials priced in.

Am I saying don't buy Tesla? Of course no, I have holdings in it too. But claiming that Tesla will continue to go up and looking past the fundamentals just because you bought in March and you're now 4000% up isn't a long term thinking. It is a bet

Nigsrdumb:


Bad idea, had the same argument with a friend who was hell bent on an indexed portfolio especially vanguard index funds which has the lowest fees


We put it to test , in 8 months the vanguard lifestrategy 80 returned returned 5% , then we tried selecting stocks , the returns within a month was 22% after losses.

You can literally create your own etf mirroring the s and p , you can even make it nicer by throwing in some etfs like voo, some reits, some dividend etfs, gold etfs etc

In the long run, index funds will outperform most individual stock pickers.

I clearly also stated the S&P 500.


8 months? Lol! Just watch when the bear market arrives. I hope all of you keep having this same energy. Lol!

I have seen this energy before. Countless times. People forget accounting basics and call themselves financial experts. Even make jest of the Warren and Munger style. We are still here till today. Who is winning?

All the companies like Amazon and co, which of them have actual 130 billion USD in cash? Lol!

naijaoyibo:
Abeg tell us..hahahahah

I've tried to, but the buffet mentality na him dey prevent una.

GonFreecss1:



In the long run, index funds will outperform most individual stock pickers.

I clearly also stated the S&P 500.


8 months? Lol! Just watch when the bear market arrives. I hope all of you keep having this same energy. Lol!

I have seen this energy before. Countless times. People forget accounting basics and call themselves financial experts. Even make jest of the Warren and Munger style. We are still here till today. Who is winning?

All the companies like Amazon and co, which of them have actual 130 billion USD in cash? Lol!

That's why people must be extremely versed in what they're doing.

What is the use of a stop loss?

einsteine:


In March 2012, Amazon's price was roughly 240 USD at a PE of over 3000. The share price currently is 3034 with a PE ratio of 138.

Amazon, Tesla, Apple (before it started paying dividends) are growth stocks. Investors are banking on the capability of the business to grow and reinvest capital at an unprecedented rate. So you can not apply Buffet/Munger style investing to analyse such companies. Buffet did not invest in Apple until it started to pay dividends and do share buybacks.

What is the outstanding shares in 2012 and now. Companies do shares buy back, this reduces the outstanding shares and helps to keep the stock price high.

At a current PE of 138, I guess the profitability of the business can afford to grow by over 100% for the next 3 years. That is doubling for 3 years

emmanuelewumi:



What is the outstanding shares in 2012 and now. Companies do shares buy back, this reduces the outstanding shares and helps to keep the stock price high.

At a current PE of 138, I guess the profitability of the business can afford to grow by over 100% for the next 3 years. That is doubling for 3 years

Yep!

A whole lot of them do buy backs or retain earnings.

And Amazon has done some share bonus and share joining. Can’t remember which exactly and when.

emmanuelewumi:



Can you share a link to the price the share price in 2012 and the current share price.

Tesla $25 billion revenue, no profit and $1.5 Trillion current valuation.

Use profit and not revenue for your compounded annual growth rate

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/pe-ratio

Amazon infamously took 14 years to record a profit. Tesla is the archetypal growth tech stock. Market share, revenue growth, and meeting internal product targets are the watch words.

I mean they just released v3 of their Solar Roof, are yet to release their Cybertruck and Semi, are not churning out enough Power Walls and battery solutions to meet demand, and have not even achieved entrenched economy of scale like the incumbents.

Under such circumstances, revenue growth takes preeminence. It's a measure of how well their products are performing with consumers. This is a company that does not advertise or use dealers for its cars. Profit taking will come eventually and their PE ratio will drop like a rock.

That Daimler's (Mercedes) $50m investment in 2009 was sold for $780m in 2014.

Toyota also invested $50m in 2010 and cashed out in 2017 for billions.

Tesla went from an unproven nutcase to a bogeyman that has the entire ICE hegemony scared sh*tless and falling over themselves to keep up. Now, detractors are acting like Tesla emerged from a garage last year and doesn't even have a prototype yet.

The out-of-control valuation is as much a bet on future returns as it is a vote of confidence after overcoming hellish odds. The tag line is "If anyone can do it, it's Tesla."

This is the nuance that a superficial reading of PE ratio doesn't reveal, throws off assessment, and leaves people wondering how the hell they missed Apple or Facebook or Netflix.

And I mean this respectfully. You can take the slow-and-steady, time-tested value-based approach. Or you can identify a future money maker, buy in, and get rewarded handsomely. Granted, the latter is riskier, but a dollar is a dollar; whether you make it as a tomato picker as an unskilled immigrant or via acquisition fee on a million-dollar deal as a sponsor for a real estate syndicate.

Now I'm not saying I can see the future and Tesla is a guaranteed money maker; I'm saying that's what is driving the frenzy.

They're thinking if this guy can send American astronauts to the ISS on a reusable rocket and pod--something that the "experts" said was wishful thinking at the start of the decade--and singlehandedly beat every major car manufacturer into line to take EV adoption seriously, then why on God's Green Earth am I betting against him or ball watching when he's created many millionaires already.

You might not agree with or see the merit in that line of thinking, but you can't call it irrational.

-Lord

emmanuelewumi:



What is the outstanding shares in 2012 and now. Companies do shares buy back, this reduces the outstanding shares and helps to keep the stock price high.

At a current PE of 138, I guess the profitability of the business can afford to grow by over 100% for the next 3 years. That is doubling for 3 years

Sir Emma, look at what we are working with. Don't say i didn't tell you oh. This returns represents today alone.

So many plays, we don't fall in love with stock's, do your dd , get a nice entry and exit once target is hit. Simple.

Nigsrdumb:


That's why people must be extremely versed in what they're doing.

What is the use of a stop loss?

Lol! Stop loss? Meaning you are trading?

The reason why people don’t get to be as rich as Warren even though his investing strategy is simple is because many people like instant gratification. And Warren has warned that investment should be boring like watching a paint dry.

Let’s assume you make some money now, and the bears come. Then what? You start betting against the market again? What stocks would you short-sell? How would you know when market sentiment will favour your shorts if you invest the same way you did in the bull?

Why you are busy stop-lossing and following the crowd other people are buying Indexes or companies with good financial standings paying less in fees and indirectly making more and their money silently compounds.

Saw the analysis of Zenith bank from 2005 to date and I was amazed, how many people are shouting Zenith? Meanwhile it made some people rich Silently and even outperformed holding the dollar by quite some margin.

At the end of the day, we will all do what works for us.

GonFreecss1:


Lol! Stop loss? Meaning you are trading?

The reason why people don’t get to be as rich as Warren even though his investing strategy is simple is because many people like instant gratification. And Warren has warned that investment should be boring like watching a paint dry.

Let’s assume you make some money now, and the bears come. Then what? You start betting against the market again? What stocks would you short-sell? How would you know when market sentiment will favour your shorts if you invest the same way you did in the bull?

Why you are busy stop-lossing and following the crowd other people are buying Indexes or companies with good financial standings paying less in fees and indirectly making more and their money silently compounds.

Saw the analysis of Zenith bank from 2005 to date and I was amazed, how many people are shouting Zenith? Meanwhile it made some people rich Silently and even outperformed holding the dollar by quite some margin.

At the end of the day, we will all do what works for us.

You can do all sir. I have every strategy in the book.

Even if you were investing you still need a stop loss. The market crashes every 5 - 6 years, bottoms about 25%, that's where value investors get burnt.

Look at Warren buffets portfolio. He got burnt with Wells Fargo.

emmanuelewumi:



What is the outstanding shares in 2012 and now. Companies do shares buy back, this reduces the outstanding shares and helps to keep the stock price high.

At a current PE of 138, I guess the profitability of the business can afford to grow by over 100% for the next 3 years. That is doubling for 3 years

In March 2012, outstanding shares was 460 Million Shares. For the year ending 2019, there were 504 million shares outstanding, so shares have actually increased in volume rather than decreased. The last time Amazon did a share buyback was in 2012. Amazon would most likely not pay a dividend in the next ten years too. This is because the focus is on growth.

It is interesting that Warren Buffett, a big proponent of cashflow investing runs Berkshire Hathaway, a company that does NOT pay dividends.

Nigsrdumb:


You can do all sir. I have every strategy in the book.

Even if you were investing you still need a stop loss. The market crashes every 5 - 6 years, bottoms about 25%, that's where value investors get burnt.

Look at Warren buffets portfolio. He got burnt with Wells Fargo.

You don't judge an investor like Warren Buffett with quarterly or even biannual performance. On a 10, 15 year basis, even his bad investments turn out well. Even if share prices decline by 50 percent, it does not change the underlying business much and Berkshire would keep collecting dividends.

As long as you invest strictly cash (you don't borrow), your paper losses are mostly on paper and no one can compel you to sell. If the investment thesis that got you to buy in the first place is sound, you can hold till the stock recovers. In the meantime, the company generates cashflow.

Buffett holds shares for over 25 years on average.

LordAdam16:


https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/pe-ratio

Amazon infamously took 14 years to record a profit. Tesla is the archetypal growth tech stock. Market share, revenue growth, and meeting internal product targets are the watch words.

I mean they just released v3 of their Solar Roof, are yet to release their Cybertruck and Semi, are not churning out enough Power Walls and battery solutions to meet demand, and have not even achieved entrenched economy of scale like the incumbents.

Under such circumstances, revenue growth takes preeminence. It's a measure of how well their products are performing with consumers. This is a company that does not advertise or use dealers for its cars. Profit taking will come eventually and their PE ratio will drop like a rock.

That Daimler's (Mercedes) $50m investment in 2009 was sold for $780m in 2014.

Toyota also invested $50m in 2010 and cashed out in 2017 for billions.

Tesla went from an unproven nutcase to a bogeyman that has the entire ICE hegemony scared sh*tless and falling over themselves to keep up. Now, detractors are acting like Tesla emerged from a garage last year and doesn't even have a prototype yet.

The out-of-control valuation is as much a bet on future returns as it is a vote of confidence after overcoming hellish odds. The tag line is "If anyone can do it, it's Tesla."

This is the nuance that a superficial reading of PE ratio doesn't reveal, throws off assessment, and leaves people wondering how the hell they missed Apple or Facebook or Netflix.

And I mean this respectfully. You can take the slow-and-steady, time-tested value-based approach. Or you can identify a future money maker, buy in, and get rewarded handsomely. Granted, the latter is riskier, but a dollar is a dollar; whether you make it as a tomato picker as an unskilled immigrant or via acquisition fee on a million-dollar deal as a sponsor for a real estate syndicate.

Now I'm not saying I can see the future and Tesla is a guaranteed money maker; I'm saying that's what is driving the frenzy.

They're thinking if this guy can send American astronauts to the ISS on a reusable rocket and pod--something that the "experts" said was wishful thinking at the start of the decade--and singlehandedly beat every major car manufacturer into line to take EV adoption seriously, then why on God's Green Earth am I betting against him or ball watching when he's created many millionaires already.

You might not agree with or see the merit in that line of thinking, but you can't call it irrational.

-Lord

Good luck, for every successful Amazon we had a number of promising business that could not deliver.

Good perceptive and nice chatting with you

Endeavour to drop by once in a while to share your insights

einsteine:


You don't judge an investor like Warren Buffett with quarterly or even biannual performance. On a 10, 15 year basis, even his bad investments turn out well. Even if share prices decline by 50 percent, it does not change the underlying business much and Berkshire would keep collecting dividends.

As long as you invest strictly cash (you don't borrow), your paper losses are mostly on paper and no one can compel you to sell. If the investment thesis that got you to buy in the first place is sound, you can hold till the stock recovers. In the meantime, the company generates cashflow.

Buffett holds shares for over 25 years on average.

Not in this instance, wells Fargo's fundamentals have changed, always been a laggard.

Buffet will soon take a loss, just watch.

Nigsrdumb:


You can do all sir. I have every strategy in the book.

Even if you were investing you still need a stop loss. The market crashes every 5 - 6 years, bottoms about 25%, that's where value investors get burnt.

Look at Warren buffets portfolio. He got burnt with Wells Fargo.

I will love to get burnt like Buffet, got burnt and has about $130 billion cash to buy in more assets and Investments at a discount in the bear market

emmanuelewumi:


I will love to get burnt like Buffet, got burnt and has about $130 billion cash to buy in more assets and Investments at a discount in the bear market

I didn't say he's not loaded. A loss is a loss.

Nigsrdumb:


I didn't say he's not loaded. A loss is a loss.

You make a loss when you sell. Cash flow gives staying power which can allow an investor to accumulate in a down market.

Your house of N50 million that is now selling for N30 million is not a loss if you did not sell, but you have enough cash flow to buy additional 2 houses when the market is down.

Price is one thing, value is another thing, future growth is a different thing

In a Bull market, any Tom, Dick and Harry can make money.

GonFreecss1:


Lol! Stop loss? Meaning you are trading?

The reason why people don’t get to be as rich as Warren even though his investing strategy is simple is because many people like instant gratification. And Warren has warned that investment should be boring like watching a paint dry.

Let’s assume you make some money now, and the bears come. Then what? You start betting against the market again? What stocks would you short-sell? How would you know when market sentiment will favour your shorts if you invest the same way you did in the bull?

Why you are busy stop-lossing and following the crowd other people are buying Indexes or companies with good financial standings paying less in fees and indirectly making more and their money silently compounds.

Saw the analysis of Zenith bank from 2005 to date and I was amazed, how many people are shouting Zenith? Meanwhile it made some people rich Silently and even outperformed holding the dollar by quite some margin.

At the end of the day, we will all do what works for us.

Abi ooo. I particularly do not understand why some people do not enjoy the conversations that goes on here. The quality of the conversations, the different experiences been shared is very priceless and valuable. Not everything has to be about TBills please especially now that the rates are ridiculously low. This thread is now like a daily tonic for me. I come here after close of work every single day for the past how many months and i havent for once regretted it.

Kudos to every one keeping the conversation going. And for those who are still clamourong for TBills only discussions - kindly create another thread. Thank you

XiaoLi:
Tbills don cast, make we dey use the forum rub mind until Tbills bounce back..

LordAdam16:


https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/pe-ratio

Amazon infamously took 14 years to record a profit. Tesla is the archetypal growth tech stock. Market share, revenue growth, and meeting internal product targets are the watch words.

I mean they just released v3 of their Solar Roof, are yet to release their Cybertruck and Semi, are not churning out enough Power Walls and battery solutions to meet demand, and have not even achieved entrenched economy of scale like the incumbents.

Under such circumstances, revenue growth takes preeminence. It's a measure of how well their products are performing with consumers. This is a company that does not advertise or use dealers for its cars. Profit taking will come eventually and their PE ratio will drop like a rock.

That Daimler's (Mercedes) $50m investment in 2009 was sold for $780m in 2014.

Toyota also invested $50m in 2010 and cashed out in 2017 for billions.

Tesla went from an unproven nutcase to a bogeyman that has the entire ICE hegemony scared sh*tless and falling over themselves to keep up. Now, detractors are acting like Tesla emerged from a garage last year and doesn't even have a prototype yet.

The out-of-control valuation is as much a bet on future returns as it is a vote of confidence after overcoming hellish odds. The tag line is "If anyone can do it, it's Tesla."

This is the nuance that a superficial reading of PE ratio doesn't reveal, throws off assessment, and leaves people wondering how the hell they missed Apple or Facebook or Netflix.

And I mean this respectfully. You can take the slow-and-steady, time-tested value-based approach. Or you can identify a future money maker, buy in, and get rewarded handsomely. Granted, the latter is riskier, but a dollar is a dollar; whether you make it as a tomato picker as an unskilled immigrant or via acquisition fee on a million-dollar deal as a sponsor for a real estate syndicate.

Now I'm not saying I can see the future and Tesla is a guaranteed money maker; I'm saying that's what is driving the frenzy.

They're thinking if this guy can send American astronauts to the ISS on a reusable rocket and pod--something that the "experts" said was wishful thinking at the start of the decade¡ --and singlehandedly beat every major car manufacturer into line to take EV adoption seriously, then why on God's Green Earth am I betting against him or ball watching when he's created many millionaires already.

You might not agree with or see the merit in that line of thinking, but you can't call it irrational.

-Lord

Well articulated. To me the bolded is the driving force of the stock. Elon Musk is a god among us. Not only is he carrying out ground breaking innovations, the USA government and i must add, all the learned elite are strongly behind him. I see no reason why an ardent innovator with all those backings will not multiply money and generate wealth. Buying a tesla stock even at today's rate is a good bargain for long term investors.

Benzboys:
Well let's just say you don't have enough money that's why you are buying fixed income rather than real estate because if you did have enough money,you should have been looking at buying a property in Ikoyi for rental income.
Do you think tenants in Ikoyi owe rents?
Money stop nonsense nwanne,leave plenty shalaye.
Na for all those 300k backwater flats weh you dey hear say person dey owe four year rents because landlord dey fùck em woman.Try that in Ikoyi and see
Chagoury group develop eko atlantic city,massive real estate in the heart of lagos.Later go and rent there and owe them let me see or go lekki phase 1 go owe
If they used that money to buy fixed income,many of you with your 5m won't even see fixed income to buy in the first place.
Leave business for those who have enough money and expertise for it and not condemn it because you don't have what it takes to do it properly.
If you take offense at what I said I'm sorry,but it is what it is...

Benzboys=Theconglomerate. The name can be changed countless time but the signs are always there..stick like glue. Imagine I never read the thread to where people got notice before I make my comment..behaviour is everything

Nigsrdumb:


You can do all sir. I have every strategy in the book.

Even if you were investing you still need a stop loss. The market crashes every 5 - 6 years, bottoms about 25%, that's where value investors get burnt.

Look at Warren buffets portfolio. He got burnt with Wells Fargo.

Are you seeing a temporary drop in price as getting burnt?

Hahahaha! That is an opportunity if fundamentals remain the same!

The same happened with Zenith and GT bank this year when they dropped massively. People who know opportunity did what they have to do.

I have seen this market before where everyone feels like a genius. It doesn’t always end well. I know, I have witnessed it. Except you want to tell me you can time the market? In that case good luck.

There is one certainty though, Powell won’t print dollars forever.

einsteine:



In March 2012, outstanding shares was 460 Million Shares. For the year ending 2019, there were 504 million shares outstanding, so shares have actually increased in volume rather than decreased. The last time Amazon did a share buyback was in 2012. Amazon would most likely not pay a dividend in the next ten years too. This is because the focus is on growth.

It is interesting that Warren Buffett, a big proponent of cashflow investing runs Berkshire Hathaway, a company that does NOT pay dividends.

He doesn’t because of the cost it will incur. That is smart!

Just look at how much they have saved for their investors.

I will listen more to Warren than any other person in the field. People have called him out countless times, he always comes out on top. He is still on top with his company holding 130 billi in cash, who is your FAV? And do they have that in cash?

emmanuelewumi:



Good luck, for every successful Amazon we had a number of promising business that could not deliver.

Good perceptive and nice chatting with you

Endeavour to drop by once in a while to share your insight

I like the guy too. He comes here once in a while and his posts makes sense.

He has a point, but he also admitted that his claims does not mean Tesla will make people money in the future. That disclaimer won my heart.

Nigsrdumb:

Essentially it's not what you buy that matters, more like what's the idea behind what you bought.

That's why that market is crashing soon, reason and reality has been thrown out the window.

naijaoyibo:
In a Bull market, any Tom, Dick and Harry can make money.

Yep! You have said it all.

Contact me to discuss favourable interest rate deals.

Why earn 1% on your saving when you save with your bank, wouldn't you rather earn 10% on your investments.

Stephaine
Trust Banc Rep
08057312585

1millionBoys:
My Tbills of 10m will mature in a few days'. In the absence of what to do with it, I am thinking of opening a Domiciliary account and putting it there at least to cushion the effects of further naira devaluation/ depreciation.

What do you think?

And which bank is best for domiciliary accounts.

Cc
Ahiboilandgas
Emmanuelewumi
Fairfora

Sholapey
Benzboys

Etc

The party is already over.

Naira has already devalued at least by 27% (460/360) and please don't convert it now.

Naira is damn over priced at the black market currently (470)

But if you are highly bent on keeping your money in dollars, I suggest you should wait till September-December, when CBN will start selling dollars to BDC at anything below $420

Good luck.

CBN Crashes Treasury Bills Rate Further to 1.30%
https://businesspost.ng/economy/cbn-crashes-treasury-bills-rate-further-to-1-30/

1millionBoys:
My Tbills of 10m will mature in a few days'. In the absence of what to do with it, I am thinking of opening a Domiciliary account and putting it there at least to cushion the effects of further naira devaluation/ depreciation.

What do you think?

And which bank is best for domiciliary accounts.

Cc
Ahiboilandgas
Emmanuelewumi
Fairfora

Sholapey
Benzboys

Etc

This is not the time to buy dollar and keep in a domiciliary account.
This is the time for speculators, many will get richer while many others will get poorer.

vegasleo:
Contact me to discuss favourable interest rate deals.

Why earn 1% on your saving when you save with your bank, wouldn't you rather earn 10% on your investments.

Stephaine
Trust Banc Rep
08057312585

It could be a typo error it could be not, it could also be that that is not what you are called, so you won't be familiar with the spelling. You also may not be a woman. It could be that you have other plans. That no too does not carry that name..Karen Udoh is more like it.

emmanuelewumi:



Very good, make enquiries about other expenses like Omonile, LASG approval and include them into your overall budget. Involve a trusted law firm or estate management firm in your transaction.

While shopping for the next investment outlet, move your cash to a money market fund

Hello sir,

A very interesting and important perspective you just pointed at now.

Issue of omonile, 419, troubled lands/plots, extended court cases, bad workmen and workmanship, inferior or substandard materials etc. Navigating through all these will definitely wittle down your investment capital or increase if not disappear your carpital.

I wish there was an easy way around these. But are REITs any better?