Gabkosh:
Do they know you exist?

By now u should hv noticed I don't argue with yorubas....not worth it... except few.


Indices for argument has not been defeated or even squared up by una...

So no need.


Rant on your own.

MelesZenawi:



By now u should hv noticed I don't argue with yorubas....not worth it... except few.


Indices for argument has not been defeated or even squared up by una...

So no need.


Rant on your own.

Answer the question. Who want to argue with a dummy like you.

The question, do they know your existence?

Ideke9000:
the ife and modeke killings in osun state must have happened in Anambra too abi

Lol, life and modakeke, that is the only one you can mention. And it is old. Funny how all over igboland in new century, una dey kill and maimed oneself kikikikikiki. Very soon, we will read another backlash killing

Logycs:
Prove it

I already did, even more forcefully, in that same comment towards its end. How did you manage to miss it?

But in any case, refer to the following statements culled from Falola & Childs‘ allusion to Ahmed Baba’s writings:

““Yoruba” has been a descriptive category for people speaking a common language in the interior of the Bight of Benin since at least the sixteenth century, and likely earlier still.* The first reference to the term is in the writings of Ahmed Baba in 1613, but by implication Baba was describing an ethnicity that had existed for some time.”

Reference: Toyin Falola & Matt D. Childs, “The Yoruba Diaspora in the Atlantic World”, (2004), p.41.

Cheers!

Gabkosh:
Answer the question. Who want to argue with a dummy like you.

The question, do they know your existence?

Yawns.

Gabkosh:
Lol, life and modakeke, that is the only one you can mention. And it is old. Funny how all over igboland in new century, una dey kill and maimed oneself kikikikikiki. Very soon, we will read another backlash killing

it just one in a Many of how Yorubas have always proved to love theirselves more than other tribes I can you still show you more sha

CHRISTIANITY, ISLAMISM ETCETERA ETCETERA ALL MEAN IFA THE WORDS OF OLODUMARE TO ODUDUWAS. IFA MEANS WORSHIP GOD TO YORUBAS.

From Orunto27

OFFICIAL336:

When Awka started smelting iron, there was no Oyo empire.

Go and read about Uzu Oka.

First, define your pre-colonial period let start from there

See attached. Bot trigger things.

cc: DuwaRepublic, MetaPhysical

PS: Yet Taruga (or even Nok itself) is no where close to an empire.

TAO11:


Regarding etymology, available evidence suggest that this name must have begun as an Oyo hegemonic endonym — “Oyo r’ Oba”, that is: “Oyo is the king [among its peers]”.

I see you are still conducting your 419 logics.
To the unsuspecting readers: there is no such thing as etymology for our west African languages. This "oyo r'oba" thing is a hoax created by non other than macof and some other nairaland revisionists.
The word Oba refers to the title of the emperor of Benin empire and was copied by the Yoruba chiefs in the 1930's

TAO12:

I already did, even more forcefully, in that same comment towards its end. How did you manage to miss it?

But in any case, refer to the following statements culled from Falola & Childs‘ allusion to Ahmed Baba’s writings:

““Yoruba” has been a descriptive category for people speaking a common language in the interior of the Bight of Benin since at least the sixteenth century, and likely earlier still.* The first reference to the term is in the writings of Ahmed Baba in 1613, but by implication Baba was describing an ethnicity that had existed for some time.”

Reference: Toyin Falola & Matt D. Childs, “The Yoruba Diaspora in the Atlantic World”, (2004), p.41.

Cheers!

Dude, you still haven't provided proof.
You are claiming to quote someone whom is also claiming to quote someone.
Show me s text written before 1630 which talks about yoruba.
Stop trying to crook your way out of this.

TAO11:


But in any case, the word "Ya.ri.ba" which you seem to be alluding to here (as is often alluded to by many pitiable Nairaland ignoramuses) is an European attempt at rendering the word "Yoruba".

European misspellings/mis-articulations of indigenous ‘Nigerian’ words are not uncommon as is seen in some examples like “Beny”/“Benin” for ”Ubini”; “Jekri” for “Itsekiri”; and “Geebuu” for “Ijebu” among many others.

Once again, we (west Africans) had no spelling for those words.
How can you call the first spelling for a word a misspelling of the word ? It makes no sense ! The logical thing to deduce is that the word changed over time.
Yari.ba changed into yoruba not because it was misspelled into yar.iba (makes no sense because no prior spelling existed) but because someone misspelled it into Yoruba at some point or west Africans changed the way they pronounced the word over time.

"Benny/Benin": there were several European countries speaking several different languages who traded with Benin empire. Their individual spellings of "Benin" were due to the fact the europeans were speaking different languages and the same sound spells differently in different languages.

Benin empire also had no written language, the European spellings were the first spellings therefor they can't be referred to as "misspellings".

Logycs:


I see you are still conducting your 419 logics.
To the unsuspecting readers: there is no such thing as etymology for our west African languages. This "oyo r'oba" thing is a hoax created by non other than macof and some other nairaland revisionists.
The word Oba refers to the title of the emperor of Benin empire and was copied by the Yoruba chiefs in the 1930's

Don’t worry I am here to spread enlightenment and ease burdens:

(1) The Reverend Samuel Johnson writing in the 1800s (specifically prior to the year 1898) made many references to the word "Oba" as used for different Yoruba kings who ruled in Yorubaland in the 1700s, 1600s, and 1500s.

Quoting word-for-word directly from his writing, the following are a few examples of such use:

(i) Several points of similarity may be noted between the ALAFIN and his Basorun. The ALAFIN is Oba (a king), he is Iba (a lord)."

(ii) "From this incident, King ABIPA was nick-named Oba M'oro (the King who caught ghosts)."

(iii) "And this has passed into proverb, "Oku dede ki a ko iwi wo Akesan, Oba Jayin te ori gba aso". (At the approach to Akesan of a company of chanting Eguguns, King JAYIN buried his head in a shroud.) Used of one who anticipates the inevitable."

(iv) "Oaths were no more taken in the name of the gods, who were now considered too lenient and indifferent; but rather in the name of the King [i.e. King AOLE himself] who was more dreaded. "Ida Oba ni yio je mi" (may the King's sword destroy me) was the new form of oath!"

Reference: Samuel Johnson, "The History of the Yorubas". Completed 1897, Published 1921, pp.71, 166, 171, and 188 respectively.

(2) The word “Oba” as it refers to a king, monarch, etc. does not exist indigenously in the Edo lexicon.

The word “Oba” as used for a monarch exist in the Edo language due to the well-known Yoruba influence on the Edo monarchy.

The Yoruba root-word “Ba” means “reign over”. While the Edo indigenous root-word “Ba” has absolutely nothing to do with monarchy or kingship — it simply means “Red” or “Shine”.

Logycs:

Once again, we (west Africans) had no spelling for those words.
How can you call the first spelling for a word a misspelling of the word ? It makes no sense ! The logical thing to deduce is that the word changed over time.
Yari.ba changed into yoruba not because it was misspelled into yar.iba (makes no sense because no prior spelling existed) but because someone misspelled it into Yoruba at some point or west Africans changed the way they pronounced the word over time.

"Benny/Benin": there were several European countries speaking several different languages who traded with Benin empire. Their individual spellings of "Benin" were due to the fact the europeans were speaking different languages and the same sound spells differently in different languages.

Benin empire also had no written language, the European spellings were the first spellings therefor they can't be referred to as "misspellings".

Lol. “misspellings/mis-articulations“.

Check my original comment again. Smiles.

TAO12:
Don’t worry I am here to spread enlightenment and ease burdens:

(1) The Reverend Samuel Johnson writing in the 1800s (specifically prior to the year 1898) made many references to the word "Oba" as used for different Yoruba kings who ruled in Yorubaland in the 1700s, 1600s, and 1500s.

Quoting word-for-word directly from his writing, the

1) If you want to prove the word "Oba" was used to describe a Yoruba chief in the 1500's then provide a text written in the1500's which refers to a Yoruba chief as "Oba". Not a text supposedly written in 1898 which refers to a Yoruba chief who (supposedly) existed in the 1500's as "Oba".

2) you provided neither the date of publication of
your supposed "reverend Johnson" written text, nor the text itself. Besides go back to point 1.

TAO12:


Lol. “misspelling/misariculations“

Once again, there is no way to prove any "misarticulation" unless you create a time machine, go back in time and record our ancestors on audio tape.
Languages evolve over time.
Our current prononciations of our indigenous words are not the same as those of our ancestors.

With all due respect (due to any fellow human), you are very illogical.
You only manage to fool people whom are dumber than you.

Logycs:
Dude, you still haven't provided proof.
You are claiming to quote someone whom is also claiming to quote someone.
Show me s text written before 1630 which talks about yoruba.
Stop trying to crook your way out of this.

Lol.

(1) My objective here is to show that Ahmed Baba did document it in 1613.

(2) Showing you the text (on the assumption that you can read Arabic) will prove two things: (i)That I have the text, and (ii)That Ahmed Baba did document “Yoruba” in 1613.

However, I do not have to prove point (2i) as it is irrelevant to my objective here.

(3) What I have done as a logically valid alternative to (2ii) is to present a scholarly and academic attestation to the fact that Ahmed Baba did document “Yoruba” in 1610.

(4) And I have done precisely that when I quoted the joint academic publication of Dr. Falola (the Frances Higginbothame Nalle Centennial Professor in History at University of Texas) and Dr. Matt D. Childs (of the History Department at the University of South Carolina).

(5) With the foregoing I have logically and validly demonstrated that the word “Yoruba” is present in Ahmed Baba (1613).

I can’t be too sure what you’re trying hard to compensate for, but I can only advice that you drink some water, and take a deep breath.

TAO12:



(2) The word “Oba” as it refers to a king, monarch, etc. does not exist indigenously in the Edo lexicon.

The word “Oba” as used for a monarch exist in the Edo language due to the well-known Yoruba influence on the Edo monarchy.

The Yoruba root-word “Ba” means “reign over”. While the Edo indigenous root-word “Ba” has absolutely nothing to do with monarchy or kingship — it simply means “Red” or “Shine”.

1) if you want to add something to your comment, make a new comment instead of just modifying your existing comment just to evade my scrutiny.
2) "well known Yoruba influence on Edo monarchy" is a myth. The fact is the first person ever referred to as Oba in a written text is the emperor of Benin empire. That is his title just as ooni is the title of the king of ife and alafin is the title of the king of oyo.
3)Benin empire was the superpower of the region, it is therefore laughable to suggest any the title of its emperor was due to influence from a people which didn't exist (Yoruba) when the Oba of Benin was already being referred to as Oba.

Tranquillity360:
Yes we are tolerance but not totally.

Our muslim brothers hate we Yoruba christians,they will side northern muslims against us anytime and any day.

If not that we Yoruba christians are always trying to maintain peace,there would be war between us and them every day.




If i tell you what i went true in the hand of a muslim family,all because am a christian.

Anyway they can now marry their own daughter.

Let me school you. Yorùbá people has been civilized before your forefathers ever dreamt of wearing clothes. You people can't keep up with us hence the constant trolling which is why God has placed us on you and so shall it be. Below are examples of high personalities in Yoruba land who are/were religious tolerant and I challenge you to list anyone from your tribe that could match such feat...

*Ibikunle Amosun, former ogun governor, is a staunch Muslim while his wife is a dedicated Christian with a deacon as mom.

*Late Abiola Ajimobi, former Oyo governor, was a Muslim while his wife is still a practicing Christian till date.

*Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu ìs a Muslim while his wife, Senator Remi Tinubu, is a Christian.

*Bukola Sàràkí, former senate president, is a Muslim while his wife is a deep Christian.

Etc

Lastly, my dad was a Christian before his death while my mom practice Islam up till now.
************
Kindly list any igbo man that could tolerate such. I'm waiting...

[s]

Tranquillity360:
And you have to edit my quote just to cover the truth.

I can confidently say you are a muslim.


If not that we Yoruba christians always go for peace,i don't think our region will be peaceful as it is.

[/s]

I understand why you're ashamed of your ethnicity. If I were in your shoes too I'd be ashamed.

Lol. If I remember correctly you had written the following words:

The word Oba refers to the title of the emperor of Benin empire and was copied by the Yoruba chiefs in the 1930's

Any decent person would have quickly tendered an unreserved apology for lying publicly that the Yoruba began using “Oba” in the 1930s, and that they borrowed it from the Binis in whose language the word is ’meaningless’.

Logycs:
1) If you want to prove the word "Oba" was used to describe a Yoruba chief in the 1500's then provide a text written in the1500's which refers to a Yoruba chief as "Oba". Not a text supposedly written in 1898 which refers to a Yoruba chief who (supposedly) existed in the 1500's as "Oba".

I am not sure why there must always be only one way of establishing a historical fact. What books have you been reading if you’ve been reading?

However, I have demonstrated clearly that by the 1800s a to-be-well-known written account has already captured centuries old Yoruba sayings addressing Yoruba kings as “Oba”.

Not only were the word “Oba” found in this 1800s account, the specific references I mentioned relates to well-known ancient Yoruba sayings which (according to this author) were already old sayings as at the time of his writing.

Also, those respective saying relate specifically to different kings of Oyo-Ile who have been firmly situated into different historical milieus, viz. the 1500s, the 1600s, and the 1700s.

2) you provided neither the date of publication of your supposed "reverend Johnson" written text, nor the text itself. Besides go back to point 1.

You need to read more slowly going forward. Moreover, two distinct dates were provided for that famous classic of S. Johnson. Both the date of completion of the text, and the date of publication of the text was provided in my reference. Calm down! Smiles.

Logycs:


Once again, there is no way to prove any "misarticulation" unless you create a time machine, go back in time and record our ancestors on audio tape.
Languages evolve over time.
Our current prononciations of our indigenous words are not the same as those of our ancestors.

With all due respect (due to any fellow human), you are very illogical.
You only manage to fool people whom are dumber than you.

Lol. Citing a scholarly publication of prominent academics (Falola & Childs), I have demonstrated that a written account of the word “Yoruba” existed as early as the year 1613.

I am not sure then how you thing you’re making any case for yourself now.

TAO12:
Lol. If I remember correctly you had written the following words:

Any decent person would have quickly tendered an unreserved apology for lying publicly that the Yoruba began using “Oba” in the 1930s, and that they borrowed it from the Binis in whose language the word is ’meaningless’.

1) there is no text previous to the 1930's which refers to any Yoruba as Oba. Therefor you should apologize for lying. I am only stating facts.
2) the people of Benin empire are called Edo, not Bini.
3) the way the art of history works is that you prove something happened with texts written by eye-witness instead of texts written by some guy in his mother's basement pretending to know what took place hundreds of years before his grandfather was born.
4) you have to be intellectually honest which you are not. You start with a yoruba-centric claim and you say anything and adapt your methods to justify it rather than doing a real historical investigation to establish truth.

TAO12:


Lol. Citing a scholarly publication of prominent academics (Falola & Childs), I have demonstrated that a written account of the word “Yoruba” existed as early as the year 1613.

I am not sure then how you thing you’re making any case for yourself now.

Actually the only way to demonstrate "Yoruba” existed as early as the year 1613" is to provide a text written in 1613 or befor 1613 which mentions the word "Yoruba". Instead, all you are applying are crooked methods which don't prove anything but rather your methods are designed to dupe people.
Quoting supposedly scholarly publications is just an other fraudulent way make claims. The field of history, especially the west african part has enough crooks as it is.

TAO12:

Not only were the word “Oba” found in this 1800s account, the specific references I mentioned relates to well-known ancient Yoruba sayings which (according to this author) were already old sayings as at the time of his writing.

Also, those respective saying relate specifically to different kings of Oyo-Ile who have been firmly situated into different historical milieus, viz. the 1500s, the 1600s, and the 1700s.

Once again you seem to have descended into a word salad. All you say is completely illogical.
1) so your "Yoruba saying" is your proof now ? Wow, how dumb is that ?
2) "who have been firmly situated" wtf ? Stop trying to convert myths into reality. You can firmly situated your made up characters all you want, it still won't make them real.

Quoting supposedly scholarly publications is just an other fraudulent way make claims. The field of west African history has enough crooks as it is.
Just show the original text written by an eyewitness.
But you can't because your claims are bogus.

Logycs:

1) if you want to add something to your comment, make a new comment instead of just modifying your existing comment just to evade my scrutiny.

Smiles.

2) "well known Yoruba influence on Edo monarchy" is a myth.

You have no evidence for this claim. I challenge you to provide any academic support for your wish here.

Moreover, in his letter to the French authorities, Father Columbine of Nantes who visited the coast of West Africa in the 1630s notes that the lingua-franca of Benin Kingdom is the language of the Yoruba people.

I would think that’s a Yoruba influence on Benin Kingdom.

The fact is the first person ever referred to as Oba in a written text is the emperor of Benin empire

. This is false and I challenge to provide an academic substantiation for this.

That is his title just as ooni is the title of the king of ife and alafin is the title of the king of oyo.

No, his title is not “Oba”, the word “Oba” simply means “king”. Instead, his title is the “Omo N’oba” — and any Edo in here will inform you that this phrase “Omo N’oba” has absolutely nothing to do with the word “king”, “monarch”, etc.

So just as “Ooni Ife” is the royal title (Oruko-oye) of the monarch (Oba) who rules Ife, and “Alaafin Oyo” is the royal title (Oruko-Oye) of the king (Oba) who rules Oyo, so is “Omo N’oba N’Edo” the royal title of the monarch (“Ogie” replaced later by “Oba” ) who rule Benin.

All the Edo speaking people used the word “Ogie” or any of its variants such as “Ovie”, “Enogie”, etc. to represent the word “king”.

3)Benin empire was the superpower of the region

What specific region is Benin the super power of? Provide academic substantiation for whatever you will muster.

••• it is therefore laughable to suggest any the title of its emperor was due to influence from a people which didn't exist (Yoruba) when the Oba of Benin was already being referred to as Oba.

Interesting. Lol! The Yorubas came out of thin air in recent centuries to occupy the prior vacant vast territory of land of southwest Nigeria and squeezed these Binis into a relatively small parcel of land. Smiles.

TAO12:
Smiles.

You have no evidence for this claim. I challenge you to provide any academic support for your wish here.

Moreover, in his letter to the French authorities, Father Columbine of Nantes who visited the coast of West Africa in the 1630s notes that the lingua-franca of Benin Kingdom is the language of the Yoruba people.

1) actually you are the person who should be proving your claim of Yoruba influence over Benin is not a myth !
You are making a claim with no proof, that is called a myth. (Talkless of the fact there was no such thing as Yoruba when the Oba of Benin was already written about under his title)
2) Do you care to produce the imaginary texts which you keep talking about ?
"Father Columbus of Nante" ? Where is the text ?
There is no text of that era which even mentions Yoruba !

3) stop telling lies !

TAO11:




Yes it true that one of the subgroups of the Igbo group did indeed cast some ‘bronzes’. This Igbo sub-group is known as Igbo-Ukwu.

From the archaeological works of Professor Thurstan Shaw in the years 1959-60, these Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronzes’ tend to be generally assumed to pre-date the Ife ‘bronzes’ especially among common folks.

However, such assumptions are quite mistaken as such date comparison are in fact not absolute, not final, and not conclusive.

To quote the very words of Professor Shaw himself in relation to the Igbo-Ukwu artefacts, he sums up and concludes as follows:

“SUMMARY: In the discussion of the reliance which should be placed on the Igbo-Ukwu radiocarbon dates, it is necessary to make certain that what evidence we have is correctly used. The precise locations of the samples used for and possible sources of error discussed. Consideration is given to the arguments for a date later than that suggested by the radiocarbon dates, stemming from the state of preservation of the textiles, the character of the beads, the pottery evidence, analogies with the presumed dating of Ife and Benin, the quantity and the source of the copper, and what is known of pre-European trading patterns in West Africa. The latter is probably the most serious objection to a very early date, but the question will only be settled with the acquisition of more archaeological evidence.”

Reference: Thurstan Shaw, “Those Igbo-Ukwu Radiocarbon Dates: Facts, Fictions and Probabilities”, The Journal of African History, Vol. 16, No. 4, (1975), p.517.

Furthermore and in relation to the foregoing, I should add, clarify, and caution that a phrase such as: ”the earliest date obtained from the dated Ife ‘bronzes‘” is not one and the same thing as the phrase: ”the earliest date possibly obtainable from any of the not-yet-dated Ife ‘bronzes’”.

This foregoing addition, clarification, and caution is of utmost relevance especially as “much of the bronze/brass art of Ife has not been [scientifically] dated.” — S.A. Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, 2010, p.52.

cc: 900winner, seunmsg, bobowaja, RuggedSnipper, Sammy07
.
.
.
PS: In Yorubaland, the bronze casting tradition is not isolated or restricted to the Ife subgroup.

Later finds in the course of the 1900s came to light to prove that the ancient bronze casting art also existed in other parts of Yorubaland such as: Owo, Obo-Aiyegunle (in Northern Ekiti), Ijebu-Ode, etc.

^^^WORD! In a 2004 Guardian article that I read on the Ife/Bini relationship, the erudite historian and former ambassador to Germany, Prof. Jide Osuntokun said several autochtonous communities existed in Yorubaland like you stated before the rise of Odu'a Dynasty in Ife. He said the Ife people had existed with a long line of kings such as OBATALA for centuries before the rise of the Oduduwa Dynasty (Odu+Iwa)...meaning "the precepts and knowledge of the mysteries of life (ODU) and the rules guiding human behavior (IWA)." More advanced radiocarbon isotopic dating is needed in Yorubaland. #TAO12, much RESPECT!

TAO12:



Interesting. Lol! The Yorubas came out of thin air in recent centuries to occupy the prior vacant vast territory of land of southwest Nigeria and squeezed these Binis into a relatively small parcel of land. Smiles.

Actually this is what the Yoruba came from:

1) slave returnees whose ancestors were kidnapped all over Africa and enslaved in America and Europe.
2) dahomyans whom have lost touch with their passed
3) Edo's whom have lost touch with their passed
4) Ijebu
5) oyos

A bunch of unrelated people who formed a new tribe created in the colonial era.

RuggedSniper:
^^^WORD! In a 2004 Guardian article that I read on the Ife/Bini relationship, the erudite historian and former ambassador to Germany, Prof. Jide Osuntokun said several autochtonous communities existed Yorubaland before the rise of Odu'a Dynasty in Ife. He said the Ife people had existed with a long line of kings such as OBATALA for centuries before the rise of the Oduduwa Dynasty (Odu+Iwa)...meaning the precepts and knowledge of the mysteries of life (ODU) and human behavior (IWA). More advanced radiocarbon isotopic dating is needed in Yorubaland. #TAO12, much RESPECT!

Obviously you are not stupid enough to mistake the tales of your Yoruba ambassador with reality.
Also you are not stupid enough to know your map has no value, it is a recently made map, a fake !