Logycs:

1) there is no text previous to the 1930's which refers to any Yoruba as Oba. Therefor you should apologize for lying. I am only stating facts.

You seem to be self inflicting yourself with ignorance as I already quoted you four different instances from a classic text completed in the year 1897. Go back again.

2) the people of Benin empire are called Edo, not Bini.

The people of Benin are also called Bini. I’m not sure what you had sought to achieve with this gaffe.

3) the way the art of history works is that you prove something happened with texts written by eye-witness instead of texts written by some guy in his mother's basement pretending to know what took place hundreds of years before his grandfather was born.

While eyewitness account is okay, it constitutes only one way of establishing a historical point.

In this particular instance, I do not have access to Ahmed Baba’s writing (assuming you can read Arabic), but Professor Falola and Dr. Childs both confirmed ‘for me’ that Ahmed Baba’s account does contain the word “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

How this is rocket science to you is beyond me.

4) you have to be intellectually honest which you are not. You start with a yoruba-centric claim and you say anything and adapt your methods to justify it rather than doing a real historical investigation to establish truth.

This is all too vague and not to any specific issue. Can you be clear and precise as to which of my arguments you aim at here?

TAO12:
You seem to be self inflicting yourself with ignorance as I already quoted you four different instances from a classic text completed in the year 1897. Go back again.

Show me the quote, on the paper. Don't think I will believe you just because you say something.
Show me the paper and the quote on the paper.

TAO12:


The people of Benin are also called Bini. I’m not sure what you had sought to achieve with this gaffe.

"People of Benin Kingdom are also called Bini" but by whom ?
In their language they are called Edo and their empire is called Benin and their capital city share the name Benin (Benin city)

Logycs:

Actually the only way to demonstrate "Yoruba” existed as early as the year 1613" is to provide a text written in 1613 or befor 1613 which mentions the word "Yoruba". Instead, all you are applying are crooked methods which don't prove anything but rather your methods are designed to dupe people.
Quoting supposedly scholarly publications is just an other fraudulent way make claims. The field of history, especially the west african part has enough crooks as it is.

No the only way to prove my point to you is not to quote an Arabic text that you can not read.

There are other ways of establishing the same historical fact.

For example, if you admit that the earth is ‘spherical’, then you’ve done so not because you’ve observed its complete ‘sphericity’, but because of the testimony of the experts, scholars, and academics who have done so.

In a similar way, the word “Yoruba” exists in Ahmed Baba’s writings as early as the year 1613 not because I have accessed Ahmed Baba’s Arabic writings to see it directly, but because of the confirmation of the experts, scholars, and academics who have done so, and some of whose publication I have quoted.

This is how academia works. And this is not rocket science. Lol.

TAO12:


While eyewitness account is okay, it constitutes only one way of establishing a historical point.

In this particular instance, I do not have access to Ahmed Baba’s writing (assuming you can read Arabic), but Professor Falola and Dr. Childs both confirmed ‘for me’ that Ahmed Baba’s account does contain the word “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

How this is rocket science to you is beyond me.

Look, you are just admitting you have no proof for your claims.
You are talking on a subject on which you know nothing, the professors you quoted should be the ones debating with me, instead of their fanboy who knows nothing he is talking about.
If you can't prove something then stop pretending. You are not in the league of those who can have a rational debate on this matter. We are not fanboys, we prove our claims !

TAO12:
No the only way to prove my point to you is not to quote an Arabic text that you can not read.

You are such a 419.
So in order to not have to provide proof for your claim, you will just claim it is written in a language which I can not read ?
For your info, I have many arab friends who can read Arabic.
You have already admitted you do not have the text. I also doubt you can read Arabic or that you even know anybody who can.

You are just one big fraud.

Guys anything said by this person is doubtful at best.

Logycs:

Once again you seem to have descended into a word salad. All you say is completely illogical.
1) so your "Yoruba saying" is your proof now ? Wow, how dumb is that ?

You may want to take a crash course in analytical logic to understand that a year 2020 documentation of a practical well-known Igbo proverb is proof that the particular proverb dates to years, centuries, or millennials (depending on its contextual referents) prior to the year 2020.

This was my specific point when I cited an 1800s documentation of the then already-ancient Yoruba sayings about “Oba” in Yorubaland.

2) "who have been firmly situated" wtf ? Stop trying to convert myths into reality. You can firmly situated your made up characters all you want, it still won't make them real.

I am quite certain that you yourself didn’t believe you have put forward a counter argument here.

Moreover, you should be smart enough to at least realize that merely re-writing the word ”myth” even a quadrillion times only proves absolutely nothing.

Logycs:
Quoting supposedly scholarly publications is just an other fraudulent way make claims. The field of west African history has enough crooks as it is.

Well, instead of distracting yourself with hypothetical situations, why not face reality? Lol.

Don’t you realize that there is a huge gap between the phrase “supposedly scholarly publications” and the phrase “scholarly publications”.

I have cited you the joint publication of Professors Toyin Falola & Matt D. Childs wherein they stated unambiguously that Ahmed Baba’s writings contain reference(s) to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

Just show the original text written by an eyewitness. But you can't because your claims are bogus.

No, because I don’t have it, I have resorted to those who have it and who are also more authoritative, scholarly, and academic than I am.

No rocket science here.

TAO12:
You may want to take a crash course in analytical logic to understand that a year 2020 documentation of a practical well-known Igbo proverb is proof that the particular proverb dates to years, centuries, or millennials (depending on its contextual referents) before the year 2019.

Following your logics, the internet is several thousand years old.
You keep making false reasonings.
The fact still remains you have to provide proof for your claims, not some crooked conspiracy theory which is what you soecialize in.

tatatar:
It's simply due to high levels exposure to people from other faiths.
In certain areas of Yorubaland that are most homogeneous,like some places in ondo state,they could be as bigoted as their igbo counterparts.

Bigoted ko, magot ni! I'm a native of Akure, Ondo-State. Although we Christians dominates this place, but I've never have any hatred for my fellow Yoruba just because he/she is a Muslim, and by the way, my best friend is a Muslim, and we once live together in a room without disturbing ourselves. He talk since to my brain any day I decided not to go to church and vice versa.
Mind you, I don't preach Christianity to him, and he doesn't preach Islam to me, we respect ourselves. In conclusion, I see my Yoruba people as Yoruba only, I don't care about religion, because it's personal, less I forget, we also have traditional worshipers in my street, and I love them too.

TAO12:
Well, instead of distracting yourself with hypothetical situations, why not face reality? Lol.

Don’t you realize that there is a huge gap between the phrase “supposedly scholarly publications” and the phrase “scholarly publications”.

I have cited you the joint publication of Professors Toyin Falola & Matt D. Childs wherein they stated unambiguously that Ahmed Baba’s writings contain reference(s) to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

No, because I don’t have it, I have resorted to those who have it and who are also more authoritative, scholarly, and academic than I am.

No rocket science here.

You are seeking like a broken record.

I already addressed this:

1)

Logycs:

You are such a 419.
So in order to not have to provide proof for your claim, you will just claim it is written in a language which I can not read ?
For your info, I have many arab friends who can read Arabic.
You have already admitted you do not have the text. I also doubt you can read Arabic or that you even know anybody who can.

You are just one big fraud.

Guys anything said by this person is doubtful at best.

2)

Logycs:

Look, you are just admitting you have no proof for your claims.
You are talking on a subject on which you know nothing, the professors you quoted should be the ones debating with me, instead of their fanboy who knows nothing he is talking about.
If you can't prove something then stop pretending. You are not in the league of those who can have a rational debate on this matter. We are not fanboys, we prove our claims !

Logycs:

1) actually you are the person who should be proving your claim of Yoruba influence over Benin is not a myth

While I am obliged to justify any claim I make, you are not exempted from justifying yours in case you’re wondering.

I have already alluded to the statement by Father “Columbine de Nantes” in his 26 December 1640 letter to the higher authorities of the French mission to the effect that the lingua-franca of Benin is the language of the Yoruba people.

That for any reasonable person is an influence. You must then prove you bogus claim that the widely attested Yoruba influence on Benin Is A mYtH. Lol.

You are making a claim with no proof, that is called a myth.

You must learn to always read what you will be reply to before actually replying.

Talkless of the fact there was no such thing as Yoruba when the Oba of Benin was already written about under his title)

Again, from the joint work of Professors Falola & Childs, the writings of Ahmed Baba does contain reference(s) to the word “Yoruba” in as early as the year 1613.

Moreover, you are yet to provide any evidence to substantiate your oft-repeated bogus claim that the word “Oba” in respect of a Benin monarch appears in writing in the 1500s.

There seem to be no mention of the word “Oba” in relation to the Benin monarch, prior to the 1900s.

2) Do you care to produce the imaginary texts which you keep talking about ? "Father Columbus of Nante" ? Where is the text ? There is no text of that era which even mentions Yoruba!

Again, the word “Yoruba” appeared in writing earlier than 1640 as has been oft demonstrated. However, Professor has shown that the terms “Nago” and “Lucumi” predates “Yoruba” as a generic description to the same effect.

Having said that, refer to the attached screenshot on the quotation from Columbine de Nantes’ note on Benin’s lingua-franca (the Lucumi language) as cited by R.C.C. Law in his “Nago as an Ethninym in West Africa”.

Bot wouldn’t let me type in the quotation myself.

3) stop telling lies !

I can’t possibly stop what I didn’t begin. You should take your own advice.

TAO12:
While I am obliged to justify any claim I make, you are not exempted from justifying yours in case you’re wondering.

I have already alluded to the statement by Father “Columbine de Nantes” in his 26 December 1640 letter to the higher authorities of the French mission to the effect that the lingua-franca of Benin is the language of the Yoruba people.

That for any reasonable person is an influence. You must then prove you bogus claim that the widely attested Yoruba influence on Benin Is A mYtH. Lol.

You must learn to always read what you will be reply to before actually replying.

Again, from the joint work of Professors Falola & Childs, the writings of Ahmed Baba does contain reference(s) to the word “Yoruba” in as early as the year 1613.

look I don't care about the professors you keep talking about. I don't give into fanboyism. If you have a claim, you provide proof instead of trying to dodge by any means necessary. You have admitted to not having any proof for your claim. So it ends there.
As of yet, there is still no text written prior to the 19th century which mentions Yoruba or yar.iba.

Logycs:
Actually this is what the Yoruba came from:
1) slave returnees whose ancestors were kidnapped all over Africa and enslaved in America and Europe.
2) dahomyans whom have lost touch with their passed
3) Edo's whom have lost touch with their passed
4) Ijebu
5) oyos

A bunch of unrelated people who formed a new tribe created in the colonial era.

This appears to be a frustration/pain-induced comment. Lol.

Anyways, I will be waiting for you to cite any historical evidence to prove that the following sub-groups did not always belong to the same ethno-linguistic group:

Ife, Oyo, Awori, Ijebu, Egba, Ekiti, Ijesa, Ondo, Ibarapa, Egbado, Akoko, Owo, Ikale, Itsekiri, Ketu Sabe, Popo Ifonyin, Idasa, Ana, Ahori, Itsha, Mahi, Igbomina, Ibolo, Owe, Oworo, Jumu, Bunu, Yagba, Gbede, Ikiri, etc.

.
.
.Bear in mind that some of these foregoing Yoruba subgroups are found in France’s Francophone Republic of Benin — that is, outside of Britain’s Anglophone Nigeria. Lol.

TAO12:



Again, the word “Yoruba” appeared in writing earlier than 1640 as has been oft demonstrated. However, Professor has shown that the terms “Nago” and “Lucumi” predates “Yoruba” as a generic description to the same effect.

An other diversion tactic, why am I not surprised.
While we are speaking specifically about the terms "Yoruba" and "Yoruba", you want the discussion to go rather into "nago" and who knows what.

Logycs:

Show me the quote, on the paper. Don't think I will believe you just because you say something.
Show me the paper and the quote on the paper

It is interesting that you think my burden of proof includes providing you with the book itself, whether hard-copy paper as you’ve insisted here or a digital version.

No, my burden of proof is limited to citing the statements in quotes or paraphrase and the provide the full reference for cross-checking.

Providing you the actual publication is only on my volition at my discretion.

You appear, again and again, to be new to how academia works.

TAO12:
.

Having said that, refer to the attached screenshot on the quotation from Columbine de Nantes’ note on Benin’s lingua-franca (the Lucumi language) as cited by R.C.C. Law in his “Nago as an Ethninym in West Africa”.

Bot wouldn’t let me type in the quotation myself.

I can’t possibly stop what I didn’t begin. You should take your own advice.

Yet an other fraud ! The text which you are quoting out of context makes reference to a text written by a person alive in the 1980's so did your Colombine de Nantes make a time machine to come into our 1980's and write his text ?
So you can't post the link for people to see the full text for themselves ? You are such a crook !


Your out of context text is below:

Logycs:

"People of Benin Kingdom are also called Bini" but by whom ?
In their language they are called Edo and their empire is called Benin and their capital city share the name Benin (Benin city)

A cheap google search could have saved you from this public embarrassment.

“Bini” and “Benin” are used interchangeably. See: Encyclopaedia Britannica for example:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Edo-people

OFFICIAL336:

Go and study Igbo ukwu bronze. It took you guys 200 years to catch up.

While you were busy with your catching up, Awka was busy perfecting iron smelting.

We ain't mate, dude.

I say bring the Igbo Ukwu bronze, you diverted to Iron.

Take one at a time.

Show a gallery of your bronze in Ukwu

TAO12:

You appear, again and again, to be new to how academia works.

I was waiting for the usual crooked "how Academia works"
Dude, you are a crook, I am not your usual backward Nigerian whom you can fool with these tactics.
You haven't proven any of your points.
You are only using diversionary tactics, now you want to turn the discussion into "how academia works" while hoping I would act like an unsecured and ill educated person who would say "I know how academia works" and join in a diversionary debate with no substance. Just prove your claims.

Logycs:

Look, you are just admitting you have no proof for your claims.
You are talking on a subject on which you know nothing, the professors you quoted should be the ones debating with me, instead of their fanboy who knows nothing he is talking about.
If you can't prove something then stop pretending. You are not in the league of those who can have a rational debate on this matter. We are not fanboys, we prove our claims !

The professors should be the one “debating you?

I actually don’t know how to react to the fact that I am giving you so much heat that you’re already loosing touch with reality.

For emphasis again: Professors Falola and Childs clearly stated that Ahmed Baba’s writings contain reference (s) to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

There goes my evidence that Ahamed Baba’s writings contain reference to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

No rocket science.

Cheers!

TAO12:


A cheap google search could have saved you from this public embarrassment.

“Bini” and “Benin” are used interchangeably. See: Encyclopaedia Britannica for example:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Edo-people

now this is just dumb, you need to stop replacing brain work with Google search.
Obviously the article on Britannica was written recently not several hundred years ago and the people who wrote it are not Edo...is your brain empty ?

TAO12:


The professors should be the one debating you.

I actually don’t know how to react to the fact that I am giving you so much heat that you’re already loosing touch with reality.

Once again, fanboyism.
You believe the professors you quoted are some superhuman whom nobody on earth could debate. You believe their words are gospel truth which shall never be challenged.
I have information for you: being a professor doesn't make you above scrutiny. It doesn't make you honest nor does it make you a superhuman.
In the field of west African history there have been several crooked professors whom have pushed political ethnic propaganda in their publications as facts. Besides the fact one professor says something doesn't imply there is no professor saying the complete opposit.
This is not maths.

All you do is diversionary tactics.
Just prove your claims !
But you can't, instead you want everybody to believe your super humans.

As I have already said, your are ill equipped to debate this topic and the professors whom you are quoting should be debating with me rather than their fanboy. By the way you don't even know my qualifications, you just assume I am like you with no degrees, just a person who learnt how to read and write.
I probably could educate your so called professors.

Logycs:

You are such a 419. So in order to not have to provide proof for your claim, you will just claim it is written in a language which I can not read ?

For your info, I have many arab friends who can read Arabic.

You have already admitted you do not have the text. I also doubt you can read Arabic or that you even know anybody who can.

My comments have been consistently clear on why I have consulted those who are in a better position to access Ahmed Baba’s actual writings.

And when I checked with them (i.e. Professors Falola and Childs), they confirmed that Ahmed Baba’s writings does indeed contain reference to “Yoruba” in as early as the year 1613.

The issue of your Arabic illiteracy and my Arabic literacy is secondary to the foregoing crux of the discourse.

You are just one big fraud.

For citing renowned academics, scholars, and experts; rather than repeating an empty claim without any substantiation whatsoever as you’ve been doing repeatedly??

Guys anything said by this person is doubtful at best.

I kind of have pity for you at this point.

Logycs:

Following your logics, the internet is several thousand years old.

Because?? Lol.

I certainly didn’t teach you this, John-Bull. Smiles.

You keep making false reasonings. The fact still remains you have to provide proof for your claims, not some crooked conspiracy theory which is what you soecialize in.

We’re you trying to reply yourself here?

TAO12:
Because?? Lol.

I certainly didn’t teach you this, John-Bull. Smiles.


We’re you trying to reply yourself here?

According to your false logics: the fact a word appears in a proverb means it existed several thousand years ago.

You have no logics, just a bunch of ignorant claims instead.

Logycs:

You are seeking like a broken record.

I already addressed this:

1)

2)

I will keep up hope that you will someday update your comment here with a fresh argument that I haven’t crushed already.

Logycs:
look I don't care about the professors you keep talking about. I don't give into fanboyism. If you have a claim, you provide proof instead of trying to dodge by any means necessary. You have admitted to not having any proof for your claim. So it ends there.
As of yet, there is still no text written prior to the 29th century which mentions Yoruba or yar.iba.

Citing academic sources (especially of authoritative academics) is a valid and logical way of establishing a case.

And as I have done, the joint work of Professors Falola & Childs states clearly that Ahmed Babas writings contain reference to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

TAO12:
My comments have been consistently clear on why I have consulted those who are in a better position to access Ahmed Baba’s actual writings.

And when I checked with them (i.e. Professors Falola and Childs), they confirmed that Ahmed Baba’s writings does indeed contain reference to “Yoruba” in as early as the year 1613.

Once again, the words of your professors don't mean anything to me. If they were here debating me, I would ask them to prove their claims.
You do not belong in a debate, you have nothing to contribute but fanboyism.
The fact you believe and swallow any poo from those professors doesn't mean I have to do the same.

Prove your point and stop saying "those guys said so".
And of course you hype the "professors", all crooked methods used by simpletons.

TAO12:


Citing academic sources (especially of authoritative academics) is a valid and logical way of establishing a case.

And as I have done, the joint work of Professors Falola & Childs states clearly that Ahmed Babas writings contain reference to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

Reply:

Logycs:



Once again, the words of your professors doesn't mean anything to me. If they were here debating me, I would ask them to prove their claims.
You do not belong in a debate, you have nothing to contribute but fanboyism.
The fact you believe and swallow any poo from those professors doesn't mean I have to do the same.

Prove your point and stop saying "those guys said so".
And of course you hype the "professors", all crooked methods used by simpletons.