Logycs:

An other diversion tactic, why am I not surprised.
While we are speaking specifically about the terms "Yoruba" and "Yoruba", you want the discussion to go rather into "nago" and who knows what.

The context of my cursory allusion to “Nago” makes it clear that I was emphasizing the fact that the Yoruba subgroups have always belonged to one broader ethno-linguistic group even before the word “Yoruba”.

I alluded to this point while also maintaining the historical fact that the word “Yoruba” is known in writing in at least the year 1613.

You will need an appreciable chunk of IQ to be able to flow with many of my arguments

Logycs:


Yet an other fraud ! The text which you are quoting out of context makes reference to a text written by a person alive in the 1980's so did your Colombine de Nantes make a time machine to come into our 1980's and write his text ?
So you can't post the link for people to see the full text for themselves ? You are such a crook !

Your out of context text is below:

Like I had mentioned earlier, an appreciable chunk of IQ is required to grasp many of these discourse which are gradually deepening beyond your horizon.

Columbins wrote in French, and the source in that reference which cited him is one English translation. There are many other translations of the father’s letter in this regards.

Logycs:


I was waiting for the usual crooked "how Academia works"
Dude, you are a crook, I .not your usual backward Nigerian whom you can fool with these tactics.
You haven't proven any of your points.
You are only using diversionary tactics, now you want to turn the discussion into "how academia works" while hoping I would act like an unsecured and ill educated person who would say "I know how academia works" and join in a diversionary debate with no substance. Just prove your claims.

Lol. Why do you think I am to blame for your naiveness??

Logycs:
now this is just dumb, you need to stop replacing brain work with Google search.

“replacing brain with Google search”?

Do you mean that I should have made stuffs up rather than accessing digital materials (which may also exist in hard copies)?

Obviously the article on Britannica was written recently not several hundred years ago and the people who wrote it are not Edo...is your brain empty ?

Interesting! “tHe pEoPlE wHo WrOtE iT aRe nOt EdO” hence they can not possibly know the names of the Edo people??

What kind of pitiable argument is this? Lol.

Anyways, the word “Benin” which you seem to trust so much is not the earliest written version.

Joao de Barros writing in the 1500 wrote it as “Beny” when documenting about the Ogane.

So, “Beny” is the true name of the Edo people, not “Benin”, right? Lol.

Logycs:

Once again, fanboyism.
You believe the professors you quoted are some superhuman whom nobody on earth could debate. You believe their words are gospel truth which shall never be challenged.
I have information for you: being a professor doesn't make you above scrutiny. It doesn't make you honest nor does it make you a superhuman.
In the field of west African history there have been several crooked professors whom have pushed political ethnic propaganda in their publications as facts. Besides the fact one professor says something doesn't imply there is no professor saying the complete opposit.
This is not maths.

All you do is diversionary tactics.
Just prove your claims !
But you can't, instead you want everybody to believe your super humans.

As I have already said, your are ill equipped to debate this topic and the professors whom you are quoting should be debating with me rather than their fanboy. By the way you don't even know my qualifications, you just assume I am like you with no degrees, just a person who learnt how to read and write.
I probably could educate your so called professors.

You can’t adduce delusions as arguments.

You can hardly string words together yet you want to debate a professor in his field.

Just be rest assured that whatever you’ve been smoking is of superior quality.

TAO12:




Interesting! “tHe pEoPlE wHo WrOtE iT aRe nOt EdO” hence they can not possibly know the names of the Edo people??

Actually it is more of a combination of several facts:
The writers are our contemporaries. They are not time travelers who witnessed our people calling themselves Bini.
The writers being our contemporary do not know more about the Edo of today about the Edo of today.

You just lack logics, you can't understand simple things.

TAO12:
You can’t adduce delusions as arguments.

You can hardly string words together yet you want to debate a professor in his field.

Just be rest assured that whatever you’ve been smoking is of superior quality.

So your new diversion is about my spellings. Wow.
You are yet to prove any claim of yours. This is turning into a joke. Just shut up and send your so called professors to talk instead of you. You are not mentally equipped for this.

Logycs:

According to your false logics: the fact a word appears in a proverb means it existed several thousand years ago.

You misconstrued the context of my statement in this regard to say “several thousand years” which I didn’t say.

You also ripped my statement off from its context which should have been that the proverbs relate to specifically ‘known’ Yoruba monarchs in the past.

Your argument here therefore amounts to a straw man fallacy. I didn’t expect much from a Janus-faced Benin liar like you though.

You have no logics, just a bunch of ignorant claims instead.

Lol.

I assume that the reason for your frustration here is because you failed to comprehend the point I had made.

I will therefore re-visit it now, and break it down for you by re-wording it into some clear steps.

(1) As at the 1800s certain Yoruba proverbs were already captured in writing.

(2) The author indicates that as at the time of his documenting these proverbs, they were already widely-known age-long Yoruba proverbs.

(3) The proverbs also specifically relate to different historical personages who have ruled Oyo (for example) at different times.

(4) A consideration of the king lists (of Oyo for example) indicates the approximate number of years past since the reign of these kings/referents.

(5) The conclusion from the foregoing, then, was that the earliest of these particular reigns is in the 1500s, while the latest of them was in the 1700s.

TAO12:
“replacing brain with Google search”?

Do you mean that I should have made stuffs up rather than accessing digital materials (which may also exist in hard copies)?



Interesting! “tHe pEoPlE wHo WrOtE iT aRe nOt EdO” hence they can not possibly know the names of the Edo people??

What kind of pitiable argument is this? Lol.

Anyways, the word “Benin” which you seem to trust so much is not the earliest written version.

Joao de Barros writing in the 1500 wrote it as “Beny” when documenting about the Ogane.

So, “Beny” is the true name of the Edo people, not “Benin”, right? Lol.

1) Beny refers to a place, a country not a people.
2) you do understand the person you are referring to didn't speak english, right ? I already explained that Europeans have several languages and spelled sounds according to their languages.
You are not only ill educated, you also have a short memory.

Logycs:

Once again, the words of your professors don't mean anything to me. If they were here debating me, I would ask them to prove their claims.
You do not belong in a debate, you have nothing to contribute but fanboyism.
The fact you believe and swallow any poo from those professors doesn't mean I have to do the same.

Prove your point and stop saying "those guys said so".
And of course you hype the "professors", all crooked methods used by simpletons.

Yes, I expected that the words of scholars (especially their own references to earlier materials) are only supposed to mean something to someone with some appreciable chunk of IQ.

Logycs:


Reply:

Reply:

Yes, I expected that the words of scholars (especially their own references to earlier materials) are only supposed to mean something to someone with some appreciable chunk of IQ.

Logycs:


Actually it is more of a combination of several facts:
The writers are our contemporaries. They are not time travelers who witnessed our people calling themselves Bini.
The writers being our contemporary do not know more about the Edo of today about the Edo of today.

You just lack logics, you can't understand simple things.

Your kindergarten reasoning amuses me. Lol.

If you will go this lame route, then which historical Edo person told you that “Benin” is the actual name and not “Bini”?

Your straw-clutching is second to none.

TAO12:
Lol.
Except that you have simply made up the straw man of “several thousand years”.

I will assume that you fail to comprehend the point I made and the break it down for you by re-wording it into some steps.

(1) As at the 1800s certain Yoruba proverbs were already captured in writing.

(2) The author indicates that as at the time of his documenting these proverbs, they were already widely-known age long Yoruba proverbs.

(3) The proverbs also specifically relate to different historical personages who have ruled Oyo (for example) at different times.

(4) A consideration of the king lists indicates the approximate number of years past since the reign of these king-referents.

(5) The conclusion then was that the oldest of these reigns from the time of documentation is the 1500s, and the latest of the reigns was the 1700s.

1) you didn't provide the said text and you seemed to have indicated it were writen in 1897, so saying 1800's is just a ruse to try and date it to an earlier date. Yet you still haven't provided the text, so all this talk is rubbish.

2) this your point is totally irrelevant.

3) those "personnage" are not proven to have existed, once again you are reasoning based on fragile bases.

4) once again nothing proves the king list to be genuin, if anything the king list is 100% false giving that nobody could writes those names down in the period those kings are supposed to have lived.

5)once again, you have no text from the 1500's which mention even the word Yoruba. None of your Yoruba chief is ever mentioned until close to the colonial era, so your king list makes no sense at all!

You are just producing word salads

Logycs:

So your new diversion is about my spellings. Wow.
You are yet to prove any claim of yours. This is turning into a joke. Just shut up and send your so called professors to talk instead of you. You are not mentally equipped for this.

I didn’t even pay attention to the fact that you struggle to spell words until now that you’re self-reporting.

I was talking about the fact that you struggle to string words together, let alone debate a Professor in his own field wherein you’re not even a beginner.

Can’t you see how strong your delusions are? Whatever you’re smoking is indeed of superior quality.

Logycs:

1) Beny refers to a place, a country not a people.

Says who?

And FYI, all these names “Benin”, “Bini” and “Beny” are alien to the people considering their own account.

2) you do understand the person you are referring to didn't speak english, right ? I already explained that Europeans have several languages and spelled sounds according to their languages.
You are not only ill educated, you also have a short memory.

And that was precisely my point — that is all these names are alien to the people themselves.

You seem to be shooting yourself without realizing it.

TAO12:


Yes, I expected that the words of scholars (especially their own references to earlier materials) are only supposed to mean something to someone with some appreciable chunk of IQ.

You are now using the method of the crooks in the "emperor with no clothing"
Of course, anybody whom agrees with you should be called a genius and anybody who disagrees should be called an idiot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9mQoJU-6I0

TAO12:
Says who?

And FYI, all these names “Benin”, “Bini” and “Beny” are alien to the people considering their own account.

And that was precisely my point — that is all these names are alien to the people themselves.

You seem to be shooting yourself without realizing it.

You still make no sense.
The Edo people of several hundred years do no longer exist.
The only accounts of their passed is what was written down by foreigners who visited them and witnessed them !
What you are calling "accounts" are nothing but myths.
And once again, the people of the region had no written language. Their words had no spelling untill the Europeans spelled them however they spelled them !

Now you are confusing that with the Edos of today who are alive, breathing, speaking, talking and writing. Of course the person most knowledgeable about the current events of the Edos are the Edos themselves, not some guy in England whom has never visited Africa and whom is writing down what he read online or was told to him by an other ignorant fool.

Tranquillity360:
Yes we are tolerance but not totally.

Our muslim brothers hate we Yoruba christians,they will side northern muslims against us anytime and any day.

If not that we Yoruba christians are always trying to maintain peace,there would be war between us and them every day.




If i tell you what i went true in the hand of a muslim family,all because am a christian.

Anyway they can now marry their own daughter.

Olori pelebe omo irankiran, omo adanu...why can't you be proud of your potopoto tribe for once. You flat headed beast from the cursed red mud potopoto stinking region.

Logycs:
1) you didn't provide the said text and you seemed to have indicated it were writen in 1897, so saying 1800's is just a ruse to try and date it to an earlier date. Yet you still haven't provided the text, so all this talk is rubbish.

I have asked why you think my burden of proof includes buying you the book, or sharing my book with you.

No, my burden of proof is what I have already met, namely: to quote [or paraphrase] the statement, and the to reference it fully.

It is your duty to decide to take it up from there.

2) this your point is totally irrelevant.

Well, I will keep hoping that you will someday update your comment here with an argument.

3) those "personnage" are not proven to have existed, once again you are reasoning based on fragile bases.

A number of collateral evidence exist which prove that Oyo have had kings since at least the 1500s.

One example is of Oyo palace historians (Arokin) whose task is to memorize names of past king for ceremonial and ritual purpose.

This means of preservation may only have a negligible margin of error, if any at all, considering the importance attached to the personages involved.

4) once again nothing proves the king list to be genuin, if anything the king list is 100% false giving that nobody could writes those names down in the period those kings are supposed to have lived.

I am not sure where you got the idea from that what historians regard as history is only what was written down. Lol. That’s a shallow and lazy attempt at understanding what history encompasses in totality.

To insist that “the king list is 100% false” as you’ve claimed, you will have to prove that the general populace in any one specific generation decided to ignore the names of their (past few) kings, and then strangely decided to come up with fictional names in their stead, as well as some fictional personages.

Or that the whole populace in any one specific generation (including those dedicated to the task of committing the king-list to memory) suddenly developed some weird collective amnesia.

This is clearly a very absurd route you’re plying to arrive at a very absurd destination. Lol.

5)once again, you have no text from the 1500's which mention even the word Yoruba. None of your Yoruba chief is ever mentioned until close to the colonial era, so your king list makes no sense at all!

Well, my argument about a text containing the name “Yoruba” is that it dates to the year 1613, and I demonstrated this from Professors Falola & Childs reference to Ahmed Baba’s writing.

Moreover, the “Ogane” (referring to the ‘Ooni’) was mentioned in the 1500 account I earlier alluded to.

You are just producing word salads

I trust that you yourself understand this not to be an argument.

Logycs:

You are now using the method of the crooks in the "emperor with no clothing"
Of course, anybody whom agrees with you should be called a genius and anybody who disagrees should be called an idiot

Logycs: Professors of history are crooks for citing historical writings.— Logycs, 2020, p.

Me: How is that being crooked?

Logycs: Well, because they shattered the falsehood I have clung to for years.

Me: Oh, I see.

TAO12:


Moreover, the “Ogane” (referring to the Ooni) was mentioned in the account of 1500 I earlier alluded to.

I trust that you yourself understand this not to be an argument.

So now "ogane" is ooni ?
Wtf is wrong with you ?
"Ogane" is not a person but a country and by the way a mythical country.
Why do you keep telling lies and making false logics ?
The ooni of ife appears on texts only close to the colonial era.
I have told you several times, you are not smart enough nor knowledgeable enough to discuss this topic. Send your professors in and let me have a proper debate.
You are a toddler compared to me.

Now you are just constantly repeating the names of your two crooks like it is supposed to be a magical spell.
I have told you already, I don't care about your two crooked professors. Show me proof ! Prove your claims or shvt up.

Logycs:

You still make no sense.
The Edo people of several hundred years do no longer exist.
The only accounts of their passed is what was written down by foreigners who visited them and witnessed them !
What you are calling "accounts" are nothing but myths.
And once again, the people of the region had no written language. Their words had no spelling untill the Europeans spelled them however they spelled them !

Now you are confusing that with the Edos of today who are alive, breathing, speaking, talking and writing. Of course the person most knowledgeable about the current events of the Edos are the Edos themselves, not some guy in England whom has never visited Africa and whom is writing down what he read online or was told to him by an other ignorant fool.

By the year 1903 — more than 100 years ago — Henry Ling Roth had documented the following from Benin Kingdom:

(1) “As a fact they were always fighting the Bini, and it was to fight them that the king was anxious to get European support to obtain large guns.”

(2) “Dapper says of the religion of the people of Warri, “they have nearly the same customs [“as the Bini”], but they do not sacrifice so many men and cattle, considering it a cruel deed, and the devil’s work; ...””

Reference: H. Ling Roth, Great Benin: Its Customs, Art and Horrors, (1903), pp. 13 and 15 respectively.

And there are countless other references in this 1903 account to Bini as a people.
.
.
.

Stop fighting history, you wasted your time.

Anyways, I hope your exchange with me here will serve as a motivation for you to read, because I noticed that you fail to cite any historical writing — not even one. Lol.

TAO12:


In the year 1903 — more than 100 years ago — Henry Ling Roth has the following to document from Benin Kingdom:

(1) “As a fact they were always fighting the Bini, and it was to fight them that the king was anxious to get European support to obtain large guns.”

(2) “Dapper says of the religion of the people of Warri, “they have nearly the same customs [“as the Bini”], but they do not sacrifice so many mean and cattle, considering it a cruel deed, and the devil’s work; ...”

Reference: H. Ling Roth, Great Benin: It’s Customs, Art and Horrors, (1903), pp. 13 and 15 respectively

And there are countless other references in this 1903 account to Bini as a people.

Stop fighting history, you wasted your time.

Anyway, I hope your exchange with me will serve as a motivation for you to read because I noticed that you fail to cite any writing. Lol.

Wait, what is your point exactly ? How does this prove your claim that Yoruba was written before 1613 ?
Do you know what you are doing or are you just typing random nonesense ?

DuwaRepublic:


Show me a building like this precolonial period in igboland. I’ll wait

Casting bronze lol, we skipped the Bronze Age and went straight into iron for conquest purposes, what were you using your bronze for?

Please whose Palace is this?

Logycs:

So now "ogane" is ooni ?
Wtf is wrong with you ?
"Ogane" is not a person but a country and by the way a mythical country.
Why do you keep telling lies and making false logics ?
The ooni of ife appears on texts only close to the colonial era.
I have told you several times, you are not smart enough nor knowledgeable enough to discuss this topic. Send your professors in and let me have a proper debate.
You are a toddler compared to me.

Now you are just constantly repeating the names of your two crooks like it is supposed to be a magical spell.
I have told you already, I don't care about your two crooked professors. Show me proof ! Prove your claims or shvt up.

Q: Who said Ogane is a country??

A: A certain unknown Nairaland ignoramus by the name Logyc.


Q: Who said Ogane is the Ooni??

A: Stoll 1902:161-166; Roth 1903: 6n1; Marquart 1913:52; Talbot 1926:1155-156, 281-282 3:573; Schurhammer 1928:28-30; Bradbury 1964:151; Paula Marti 1960:63; Mauny 1961:182; Law 1973:17-19; Obayemi 1976:247; Akinjogbin 1967:41-43; Willett 1973:137-138; et al.

Reference: D.M. Bondarenko, (2003), pp.73-74.

Logycs:

Wait, what is your point exactly ? How does this prove your claim that Yoruba was written before 1613 ?
Do you know what you are doing or are you just typing random nonesense ?

The historical fact that the word “Yoruba” was in writing by 1613 is separate and distinct from the point I was making here.

Again, I have already established that repeatedly by citing the works of Professors Falola & Childs where they made reference to Ahmed Baba’s writings as containing the term Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

However, the specific point I was making in this regard, on the other hand, is to disgrace you for your claim that the Edo people of Benin kingdom were not referred to as “Bini” some hundred years ago.

Guess what, I did exactly that — that is, I disgraced you by quoting an eyewitness documentation of over 100 years ago which shows that the Edo people of Benin kingdom are also referred to as Bini.

In other words, Encyclopaedia Britannica didn’t make stuffs up, nor was its source some alternative, spurious account. d Lol.

TAO12:


Q: Who said Ogane is a country??

A: A certain unknown Nairaland ignoramus by the name Logyc.


Q: Who said Ogane is the Ooni??

A: Stoll 1902:161-166; Roth 1903: 6n1; Marquart 1913:52; Talbot 1926:1155-156, 281-282 3:573; Schurhammer 1928:28-30; Bradbury 1964:151; Paula Marti 1960:63; Mauny 1961:182; Law 1973:17-19; Obayemi 1976:247; Akinjogbin 1967:41-43; Willett 1973:137-138; et al.

Reference: D.M. Bondarenko, (2003), pp.73-74.

Once again, theatrics and no proof inside.
Ogane is the mythical country of mythical prester John.
But keep arguing fraudulently and diverting from having to prove your own claims and throwing names of those whose poo you swallow.

TAO12:



However, what I have done here in the other hand is to disgrace you for your claim that the Edo people of Benin kingdom were not referred to as “Bini” some hundred years ago.

1) Actually, 1903 is after Benin empire had already lost a war to the British empire. Many people in Benin empire could already read and write in 1903.
Also a caption of a picture of Oba Ovonramwen dated at 1897 (when Benin empire lost the war against British empire) refers to the Oba of Benin as Omo n'Oba n'Edo.
2) 1903 is an era contemporary to ours.
3) Now you are putting words into my mouth, I never said that nobody had referred to the Edo people as "bini" before (in this case in 1903), and your text is still nowhere to be seen by the way.

Could you quote the comment of mine which you claim to be replying ? If only to help you read well and understand you are "trying to debunk" a point I never made.
Also, your projections are once again the work of an ignoramus: you claim to have seen a text written in 1903 calling Edos "Bini" and you deduce from that that several hundred years ago, such was how Edos were called.

Logycs:

Once again, theatrics and no proof inside.
Ogane is the mythical country of mythical prester John.
But keep arguing fraudulently and diverting from having to prove your own claims and throwing names of those whose poo you swallow.

Same old repetition which no one supports can not challenge multiply attested historical fact.

.
.
.
I am waiting patiently for you to start attaching MAPS OF BIGHT OF BENIN and Videos of Benin bronzes.

[Only you understand what I mean at this juncture].

TAO12:


My claim that Yoruba was written by 1613 is separate and distinct from this, and I have established that again and again by citing the works of Professors Falola and Child where they made reference to Ahmed Baba’s writings which contained “Yoruba” as early as 1613.

Keep throwing around the names of your two crooks instead of proving your claim.
But it is clear you can't prove your claims, because they are false and nobody can prove what is false.

Logycs:


1) Actually, 1903 is after Benin empire had already lost a war to the British empire. Many people in Benin empire could already read and write in 1903.
Also a caption of a picture of Oba Ovonramwen dated at 1897 (when Benin empire list the war against British empire) refers to the Oba of Benin as Omo n'Oba n'Edo.
2) 1903 is era contemporary to ours.
3) Now you are putting words into my mouth, I never said that nobody had referred to the Edo people as "bini" before (in this case in 1903), and your text is still nowhere to be seen by the way.

Could you quote the comment of mine which you claim to be replying ? If only to help you read well and understand you are "trying to debunk" a point I never made.
Also, your projections are once again the work of an ignoramus: you claim to have seen a text written in 1903 calling Edos "Bini" and you deduce from that that several hundred years ago, such was how Edos were called.

How does Benin losing a war prove that the people weren’t called “Bini” more than 100 years ago even when the the eye-witness testimony says so??

Are you sure you’re normal?

.
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Regarding which of your delusions I’m smashing here:

All you have to do to see your comments which I am referring to is to attempt to refresh your memory, or use your “back” button, or do both.

Logycs:

Keep throwing around the names of your two crooks instead of proving your claim.
But it is clear you can't prove your claims, because they are false and nobody can prove what is false.

I am happy to have brought out the clown and schizophrenic in you.

Again, the work of Professors Falola & Childs states clearly that Ahmed Baba’s writings makes reference to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

Academic testimony is proof in epistemology.

For example:

Is the earth spherical?

You’d probably say “yes”.

Prove your “yes” to me without any recourse to academic testimony — that is, without trusting any say-so of ‘others’.

Impossible.

Now, this is well broken down. You should get the gist.

I know you did all along though.

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I am waiting for your maps of the bight of Benin

And YouTube videos of Benin bronzes.

In fact, any unrelated stuffs you can grab as usual.

I will still flog you again and again like I used to do.