PastorAIO:


Lest anyone be confused by a confused sower of confusion, Ela is the complement of Esu as depicted on the opon ifa.

As Esu coalesces Ela opens up.

Elenini in Yoruba is an antagonist. There are every day human antagonists and then there is a particular spiritual entity called elenini.

Similarly in ancient Hebrew concepts (Not European) An antagonist is called Satan. This can include humans or even Yahweh himself (with angelic proxy perhaps). Then there is a specific spiritual entity called ha-Satan.

Satan is NOT a European concept. Only an ignorant person will tell you so. The Hebrews hail from the Middle East.

Hello pastor, its been quite a while. Hope you are faring well.
Could you discuss some more on the bolded

budaatum:

Taking it serious from the start. Early lockdown and quarantining. Low number of those susceptible to the epidemic. Not putting the economy before lifes. Not promoting false cures.

Countries that did the opposite of the above have higher mortality rates.

Huh? Nigeria did this?
Are you attempting to rewrite history here or what?

Kobojunkie:
Huh? Nigeria did this?
Are you attempting to rewrite history here or what?

The facts say Nigeria did something right, though, I wouldn't discount Grace.

budaatum:

The facts say Nigeria did something right, though, I wouldn't discount Grace.

What facts? Are the facts you speak of the low death rate or the actual events that took place during the early days of the crisis, events that are recorded even right here on nairaland showing Nigeria took none of the 'wise' steps you credit it for?

Kobojunkie:

What facts? Are the facts you speak of the low death rate or the actual events that took place during the early days of the crisis, events that are recorded even right here on nairaland showing Nigeria took none of the 'wise' steps you credit it for?

I did say I was waiting for results to come in instead of the noise on Nairaland, and those results are the number of people who died. Those who did the right things have fewer deaths and those who didn't have more.

budaatum:
I did say I was waiting for results to come in instead of the noise on Nairaland, and those results are the number of people who died. Those who did the right things have fewer deaths and those who didn't have more.

But A does not equal B in this case.

Kobojunkie:
But A does not equal B in this case.

If you say so. Close enough for me though.

budaatum:
If you say so. Close enough for me though.

Nothing of what Nigeria did was wise at the beginning of all this. Nigeria did nothing better then countries like Spain, Italy, South Africa, Madagascar or even America. There is no record that Nigeria, Jamaica, Cameroon, Sierra Leone, etc. did anything better than any of the countries with higher death toll. None
So how you attribute the lower death rates in these countries to some phantom 'godly' decision when we know there was no such?
What you are doing amounts to throwing those most affected under the bus so you can claim God saved the others, and we know God don't work like that.

Kobojunkie:
Nothing of what Nigeria did was wise at the beginning of all this. Nigeria did nothing better then countries like Spain, Italy, South Africa, Madagascar or even America. There is no record that Nigeria, Jamaica, Cameroon, Sierra Leone, etc. did anything better than any of the countries with higher death toll. None
So how you attribute the lower death rates in these countries to some phantom 'godly' decision when we know there was no such?
What you are doing amounts to throwing those most affected under the bus so you can claim God saved the others, and we know God don't work like that.

I never claimed God saved anyone, Kobo, you are reading your own meaning into what I'm saying and I resent your baseless inferences because I know you are smarter than that.

Godly wisdom is not what God did but what people who are wise do. You might understand this by noting how some countries that do not even worship God are in my godly column while some that do majorly worship God are in the ungodly column.

If our government and people had been as unwise and careless as USA has been, ungodly that is, more people would have died.

budaatum:
I think it is. The ignorant satan led pastors lost and died while the godly one's told their congregation to stay at home and isolate and live.

When this ends we shall easily be able to tell which church worships satan and which God.

Note it's an opinion. You do not have to share it.

budaatum:
I never claimed God saved anyone, Kobo, you are reading your own meaning into what I'm saying and I resent your baseless inferences because I know you are smarter than that.
Godly wisdom is not what God did but what people who are wise do. You might understand this by noting how some countries that do not even worship God are in my godly column while some that do majorly worship God are in the ungodly column.

Maybe you threw me off with your claim that their acts were 'godly' in some way when there is really no proof of such for most any of the countries you mention, and yes, I don't believe there to be a single 'god fearing' country on this planet.

budaatum:
If our government and people had been as unwise and careless as USA has been, ungodly that is, more people would have died.
Note it's an opinion. You do not have to share it.

That's the thing... The USA may have handled a good portion of this unwisely, but you can definitely not assert that Nigeria handled it's own case any better then the U.S did. America's foolishness still shines as wisdom when compared to the Nigerian government's reaction to the pandemic.
That Nigeria has somehow been spared has little to do with 'godly'/wise decisions on the part of the country, or its people, but merely God's mercy. And that goes same for any other country that has been spared in this pandemic.

Kobojunkie:
Maybe you threw me off with your claim that their acts were 'godly' in some way when there is really no proof of such for most any of the countries you mention, and yes, I don't believe there to be a single 'god fearing' country on this planet.

I specifically used the word to mean "the wise and proper thing to do", and not in a 'god fearing' sense. Some countries on my godly list fear no gods.

Kobojunkie:
The USA may have handled a good portion of this unwisely, but you can definitely not assert that Nigeria handled it's own case any better then the U.S did.

I have the feeling that if a comparable proportion of Nigerians as Americans had died you'd be singing a very different tune.

PastorAIO:
it seems as if Satan created this Covid19 just to embarass these people's god and to demonstrate just how feeble and ineffectual he actually is.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bible-belt-us-coronavirus-pandemic-pastors-church-a9481226.html

The fight is between you and Satan, God only want to help you win the battle!

Satan is just one of God's creations who loves to rebel against constituted authority, but there is no way we can have PEACE without standards as to right and wrong.

God knows you are not as intelligent and powerful as this rebellious spirit being, so he will help you win the battle if only you are willing to TRUST (BELIEVE) in him.

Satan knows he has no right to deprive you of life so he's working on your intellect to blur it to the extent that you will do things that worths to be EXTERMINATED by the one who has the power to determine whether you will live or not (GOD).

So all these your atheistic thoughts doesn't move God an inch because thousands have proved Satan a failure, it's now your own turn to fight him with the help of God or allow him win you over to his side, make you one of his agents and machineries against God's own people!


Whether you are an atheist who feels their is no God.
You're a freethinker who just want to live without submitting to any religious concept.
You're a religionsist who just feel like worshiping your own way.
You just join any religion of your choice that suit your likeness.
You just want to remain in the family circle by sticking to the Religion of your parents

All those in the above settings have already lost the battle against Satan, so they're now on his side!
That's what a first century Jewish teacher meant by the broad road that's leading to destruction
All those on this road have the same mindset I don't care what happens to others, i must live my life

But there are people who wants to know the real purpose of life, they're the ones who will find the narrow road those who truly cares about their fellowman and are willing to do whatever it takes to move together, survive together as one big family

budaatum:
I specifically used the word to mean "the wise and proper thing to do", and not in a 'god fearing' sense. Some countries on my godly list fear no gods.

We have no record of any thing 'wise and proper' Nigeria, Jamaica and even China did in the beginning of all this.

budaatum:
I have the feeling that if a comparable proportion of Nigerians as Americans had died you'd be singing a very different tune.

Nope! I simply don't think people should rejoice that Nigeria was spared. There is literally no real HealthCare system in a country of over 200 million. So what happened there is God's mercy and nothing else.

Kobojunkie:
So what happened there is God's mercy and nothing else.

Notice I did not rule out Grace. And do note there are other countries on the list Nigeria is on.

budaatum:
Notice I did not rule out Grace. And do note there are other countries on the list Nigeria is on.

I said God's mercy, not grace.
The same applies as far as the other countries on your list. We have no serious evidence to support the claim that countries with significantly lower death counts did anything that could be considered more 'wise and proper' than the rest, is what I am saying.
This pandemic hit the world, even China, from nowhere. No one more prepared than the other and no one the wiser too.

Kobojunkie:
We have no serious evidence to support the claim that countries with significantly lower death counts did anything that could be considered more 'wise and proper' than the rest, is what I am saying.

I beg to differ. One just need compare USA with Canada to see the difference in how a competent nation did much better than an incompetent one.

Here's one person willing to admit screwing up and could have done better.

budaatum:

I beg to differ. One just need compare USA with Canada to see the difference in how a competent nation did much better than an incompetent one.

Again, you cannot simply say that because Canada has a lower death toll means Canada indeed handled this more wisely than the US government did. There needs to be more indicators to measure this and so far, every country is still working to understand the situation. Maybe a year or two from now, we can sit and harsh out the details and point out what worked, how and what definitely did not.
Forget what the media and politicians are doing here in America right now. We all know this is election year and mud-slinging is a tradition to be expected.

Kobojunkie:
Again, you cannot simply say that because Canada has a lower death toll means Canada indeed handled this more wisely than the US government did. There needs to be more indicators to measure this and so far, every country is still working to understand the situation. Maybe a year or two from now, we can sit and harsh out the details and point out what worked, how and what definitely did not.
Forget what the media and politicians are doing here in America right now. We all know this is election year and mud-slinging is a tradition to be expected.

Mud slinging or not, would you agree that handling this correctly means minimising fatality rates? If not, what criteria would you suggest we use to measure "handling it right"?

budaatum:

Mud slinging or not, would you agree that handling this correctly means minimising fatality rates? If not, what criteria would you suggest we use to measure "handling it right"?

We still don't have enough information to make that judgment at this time.

Kobojunkie:

We still don't have enough information to make that judgment at this time.

What information would do you suggest we use to make that judgement when the time is right?

Kobojunkie:
There needs to be more indicators to measure this and so far, every country is still working to understand the situation.

Tell me what indicators you suggest we use to measure when the time is right please so we can start gathering it now.

budaatum:

Tell me what indicators you suggest we use to measure when the time is right please so we can start gathering it now.

I don't know

budaatum:

What information would do you suggest we use to make that judgement when the time is right?

when the time comes we will know

Kobojunkie:
I don't know

Lol!

I'm going to stick with mortality rates till you come up with a different indicator. Every country is using it as an indicator so I'm not alone.

budaatum:

Lol!

I'm going to stick with mortality rates till you come up with a different indicator. Every country is using it as an indicator so I'm not alone.

ok

kkins25:

Hello pastor, its been quite a while. Hope you are faring well.
Could you discuss some more on the bolded

Greetings sir,

You can find examples of what I mean in these verses...

1Kings 11
14And the LORD raised up a satan against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite. He was of the royal house in Edom.

23God also raised up as a satan to him, Rezon the son of Eliada, who had fled from his master Hadadezer king of Zobah. 24And he gathered men about him and became leader of a marauding band, after the killing by David. And they went to Damascus and lived there and made him king in Damascus. 25He was a satan to Israel all the days of Solomon, doing harm as Hadad did. And he loathed Israel and reigned over Syria.

Here the angel of the lord is a satan

Numbers 22:22
But God’s anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of Yahweh took his stand in the way as his satan. Now he was riding on the donkey, and his two servants were with him.

budaatum:

Tell me what indicators you suggest we use to measure when the time is right please so we can start gathering it now.

Simp. moving average, Exp. MA, fibbonacci Ratios, candle stick pattern, bollinger bands, etc. I dont know who's able to use all together. Maybe kobo would enlighten us

PastorAIO:


Greetings sir,

You can find examples of what I mean in these verses...

1Kings 11
14And the LORD raised up a satan against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite. He was of the royal house in Edom.

23God also raised up as a satan to him, Rezon the son of Eliada, who had fled from his master Hadadezer king of Zobah. 24And he gathered men about him and became leader of a marauding band, after the killing by David. And they went to Damascus and lived there and made him king in Damascus. 25He was a satan to Israel all the days of Solomon, doing harm as Hadad did. And he loathed Israel and reigned over Syria.

Here the angel of the lord is a satan

Numbers 22:22
But God’s anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of Yahweh took his stand in the way as his satan. Now he was riding on the donkey, and his two servants were with him.

interesting sir, i understand the concept in the way it is used.
Does that suggest that the "Father of lies" out to kill am ddestroy is an abstract concept.

kkins25:
Simp. moving average, Exp. MA, fibbonacci Ratios, candle stick pattern, bollinger bands, etc. I dont know who's able to use all together. Maybe kobo would enlighten us

You do know we are measuring the effects of coronavirus, right, and not investing money? Even Kobo wouldn't go as far as using the tools you've mentioned except for the simpler ones like Simp. moving average which is already used for it, candles and perhaps Exp. MA

We'll see when he's got the info he requires.

To understand the later use of Satan in Jewish thought it helps to study Ahriman in Persian religion.
Obviously the Persians set the Jews free to return to Palestine and ruled them under the Persian empire.
The impact of Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Persians cannot be over estimated.
The Zoroastrians believed in a dualistic world where history was the battle between Light and Darkness, Good vs Evil, Ahura Mazda (the good god) and Angra Mainyu (aka Ahriman, the evil force). One day in the future good will prevail and this will be brought about when the future saviour Saoshyant comes. He will make the world perfect.

What is clear is that the Persian religious world view influenced the Jewish one. And ultimately the Christian religion and Islam.

kkins25:
interesting sir, i understand the concept in the way it is used.
Does that suggest that the "Father of lies" out to kill am ddestroy is an abstract concept.