Isaiah 9:6-7

[6]For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

[7]Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. The Punishment of Samaria


Jesus is the Father

I know the devilish JWs and antichrists are pained.

To the JWs Jesus is angel Michael (what blasphemy)

Jesus is the creator (Colossians 1:16)

bingbagbo:


Jesus is the Father

Trinity doctrine is false. MESSIAH was given power dominion and authority by the Father.

They're not the same (even though the Father lived in MESSIAH) neither are they equal.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am YAHUAH; and beside me there is no saviour.

And yes, YAHUAH the Father is Savior (MESSIAH).

donnie:


Trinity doctrine is false. MESSIAH was given power dominion and authority by the Father.

They're not the same (even though the Father lived in MESSIAH) neither are they equal.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am YAHUAH; and beside me there is no saviour.

Go back and read Isaiah 9:6, the Christ is Everlasting Father

Did I talk about Trinity?

Can't u read?

bingbagbo:


Go back and read Isaiah 9:6, the Christ is Everlasting Father

Did I talk about Trinity?

Can't u read?

What you implied (by what I quoted) is the false Christian Trinity doctrine.

donnie:


What you implied (by what I quoted) is the false Christian Trinity doctrine.

I didn't imply any Trinity. I have never mentioned any Trinity.

Read the scripture I shared

The Christ is the Everlasting Father, what is your problem with that? Your own verse you quoted said God is the only saviour; and you say Jesus is not the Father?

Jesus Christ is the Father

bingbagbo:



I didn't imply any Trinity. I have never mentioned any Trinity.

Read the scripture I shared

The Christ is the Everlasting Father, what is your problem with that? Your own verse you quoted said God is the only saviour; and you say Jesus is not the Father?

Jesus Christ is the Father

Christ means MESSIAH or savior so I can agree that the Father YAH is Christ or MESSIAH.

I also agree the YAHUSHA (Jesus) is Christ.

But to say Jesus Christ is the Father is FALSE. That's the Trinity doctrine.

donnie:


Christ means MESSIAH or savior so I can agree that the Father YAH is Christ or MESSIAH.

I also agree the YAHUSHA (Jesus) is Christ.

But to say Jesus Christ is the Father is FALSE. That's the Trinity doctrine.

The Trinity doctrine doesn't say Jesus is the Father.



“Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins” (vv. 20–21).

- Matthew 1:18–21

Jesus is the Father

donnie:


Christ means MESSIAH or savior so I can agree that the Father YAH is Christ or MESSIAH.

I also agree the YAHUSHA (Jesus) is Christ.

But to say Jesus Christ is the Father is FALSE. That's the Trinity doctrine.

John 14:8-9
[8]Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

[9]Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

He prayed to the Father YAH.

He prayed asking the Father to "take this cup away". Then he said "not my will but yours".

Meaning these are two different personalities. Jesus is not YAHUAH.

He cried to His father on the cross and said, "into your hands I commend my Spirit." (Luke 23:46).

YAHUAH raised him from the dead and made him high priest and King. (Acts 2:24, Heb 7:15-17).

YAHUSHA said "I do what I see my father do" (John 5:19).

He said "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

How can you now say Jesus is the Father?

YAHUAH is the greatest and there is none beside him.

bingbagbo:


John 14:8-9
[8]Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

[9]Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

That's does not mean he is the Father. That's the Trinity doctrine and it is false. Don't you sing "Let the world see Jesus in me" Are you Jesus?

donnie:
He prayed to the Father YAH.

He prayed asking the Father to "take this cup away". Then he said "not my will but yours".

Meaning these are two different personalities. Jesus is not YAHUAH.

He cried to His father on the cross and said, "into your hands I commend my Spirit." (Luke 23:46).

YAHUAH raised him from the dead and made him high priest and King. (Acts 2:24, Heb 7:15-17).

YAHUSHA said "I do what I see my father do" (John 5:19).

He said "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

How can you now say Jesus is the Father?

YAHUAH is the greatest and there is none beside him.

donnie:
He prayed to the Father YAH.

He prayed asking the Father to "take this cup away". Then he said "not my will but yours".

Meaning these are two different personalities. Jesus is not YAHUAH.

He cried to His father on the cross and said, "into your hands I commend my Spirit." (Luke 23:46).

YAHUAH raised him from the dead and made him high priest and King. (Acts 2:24, Heb 7:15-17).

YAHUSHA said "I do what I see my father do" (John 5:19).

He said "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

How can you now say Jesus is the Father?

YAHUAH is the greatest and there is none beside him.

The Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit

They are one.

The Father is the Almighty God, eternal, immortal, invisible
The Son is the physical representation of the Father. He is the Son in whom the Father has invested all power in the earth and in the heavens, and everywhere
The Holy Spirit is the link between the Father and the Son

They are all one and the same, and operate in different realms or dimensions.

No one can see the father, but Jesus is his representation, the holy spirit enables this

See Confusion!

One God divided into three yet one!

In Matthew 27:16 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?".

This proved Jesus has a God. Yet, he is one with God!

Satan Tempts Jesus (God) Matthew 4:1
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Here we see the Holy Spirit leading Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan. Let's just say Satan tempted God (since Jesus is one with God).

How is Jesus son of God? Then the Father=God Himself?

AntiChristian:
See Confusion!

One God divided into three yet one!

In Matthew 27:16 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?".

This proved Jesus has a God. Yet, he is one with God!

Satan Tempts Jesus (God) Matthew 4:1
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Here we see the Holy Spirit leading Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan. Let's just say Satan tempted God (since Jesus is one with God).

How is Jesus son of God? Then the Father=God Himself?

This is what you don't want to see, but my brother this is who God is

delkuf:
This is what you don't want to see, but my brother this is who God is

Who is God? Prove it with the above verses only!

AntiChristian:


Who is God? Prove it with the above verses only!

God is the Father. The Lord Jesus Christ cried to him in Matt 26:17.

delkuf:
God is the Father. The Lord Jesus Christ cried to him in Matt 26:17.

But the OP Said Jesus cried to himself!

AntiChristian:


But the OP Said Jesus cried to himself!

I don't know the op must have missed yarn. God is the Father while the Lord Jesus Christ is the son and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit

bingbagbo:
I know the devilish JWs and antichrists are pained.

To the JWs Jesus is angel Michael (what blasphemy)

Jesus is the creator (Colossians 1:16)

Don't bother my guy, leave Jehovah's Witnesses out of this for now, try to settle with your fellow Trinitarians on the matter of Jesus and his father!

Maximus69:


Don't bother my guy, leave Jehovah's Witnesses out of this for now, try to settle with your fellow Trinitarians on the matter of Jesus and his father!

He's been calling JW's out as if it is anybody's business if he decides to continue wallowing in his ignorance.

DappaD:


He's been calling JW's out as if it is anybody's business if he decides to continue wallowing in his ignorance.

His fellow Trinitarians bombarded him with lots of arguements on the other thread, so it's better for him to reconcile with his own cohorts before thinking of how to deal with those he felt are the threat to his credulity!

MrPresident1:


The Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit

They are one.

The Father is the Almighty God, eternal, immortal, invisible
The Son is the physical representation of the Father. He is the Son in whom the Father has invested all power in the earth and in the heavens, and everywhere
The Holy Spirit is the link between the Father and the Son

They are all one and the same, and operate in different realms or dimensions.

No one can see the father, but Jesus is his representation, the holy spirit enables this

That's a false doctrine.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. Is that another person? Why all the drama? When the Spirit moves, It's the Father moving.

The son is a representation of the Father the same way you are a representation of the Father. The father was in heaven when the Son was ministering on earth. Now the Son has been glorified and given dominion and authority.

The Son is not the Father.

The Trinity doctrine is a Babylonian doctrine.
Face it, its not in the Bible.

To answer someone up there, we both know there's a religion where you dear not question their scholars, they swallow whatever they are given, and that's why that religion hasn't grown since it became official.
Not sure they even think with their head. Most people that do, had left that religion, some are only pretending so they won't get executed.



I think the misunderstanding here is that trinitarians believe the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are three different personality even though they say they are one.

But for those who don't believe in the trinity, I think what they are driving at is that, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the same person but different offices.

So, I could have a degree in medicine and surgery, have a degree in Law and have a degree in Engineering. I'm still the same person but function differently in these offices. When I need to fix a device I become an engineer, when I need to heal someone, I become a Dr, when I need to defend someone, I become an advocate. Same person different offices.


Now in this case, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is an office with heriachy.

Note: that there's a difference in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and in the name of the Father, and the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit. The former shows there's a name for the three combine, and the lather shows there are names for the different persons.


Finally, I can be a DR. an Engr, and a Lawyer but my name never changes.

GENESIS 1:26&27
"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

God's nature is in man: man was called Adam; representing mankind. When another personality (Eve) was to be created, she was taken out of the man: so Eve was in the man. Adam understood what happened and it reflected on his words when he met Eve. Note that despite the fact that they are two, the man and his wife were one flesh. How much more they that are one Spirit? : for God is Spirit.

Christ is/was/will continue to be in God: as an integral dimension of Him;
ie His Word: who was with Him in the beginning, and was God. (John 1:1&2).
He was made flesh for our redemption through the Spirit; So they are three persons in one God.
Both the Father, His Word and His Spirit are one(1John5:7): The Father generates the ideas; His Word goes forth ; and executes it by the power of the Spirit.

what do you think? does Christ not have only one bride: Even though there are many members (persons)?
The Spirit of the Lord in every Christian, is He not one? (and yet He is in us and also with everyone of us). So, the Spirit of the Father is also in His Son Jesus and the same Spirit is known in the Bible as the Spirit of Jesus.

This is a mystery: and only those who submit to the teaching of the Author of Scriptures can understand it: it's only when you become a humble learner of the Word that u are able to teach those who yet do not understand. Some people go to God's Word as if trying to learn from a colleague or worse still trying to teach Him(God) what they thought they know.
let's remove pride and human doctrinal limitations when studying God's word
Shalom.

donnie:



That's a false doctrine.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. Is that another person? Why all the drama? When the Spirit moves, It's the Father moving.

The son is a representation of the Father the same way you are a representation of the Father. The father was in heaven when the Son was ministering on earth. Now the Son has been glorified and given dominion and authority.

The Son is not the Father.

The Trinity doctrine is a Babylonian doctrine.
Face it, its not in the Bible.

You are young in the way of truth. I suggest you cool down a bit more and learn.

michru:

**1
To answer someone up there, we both know there's a religion where you dear not question their scholars, they swallow whatever they are given, and that's why that religion hasn't grown since it became official.
Not sure they even think with their head. Most people that do, had left that religion, some are only pretending so they won't get executed.



I think the misunderstanding here is that trinitarians believe the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are three different personality even though they say they are one.

*2
But for those who don't believe in the trinity, I think what they are driving at is that, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the same person but different offices.

***3
So, I could have a degree in medicine and surgery, have a degree in Law and have a degree in Engineering. I'm still the same person but function differently in these offices. When I need to fix a device I become an engineer, when I need to heal someone, I become a Dr, when I need to defend someone, I become an advocate. Same person different offices.


Now in this case, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is an office with heriachy.

Note: that there's a difference in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and in the name of the Father, and the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit. The former shows there's a name for the three combine, and the lather shows there are names for the different persons.


Finally, I can be a DR. an Engr, and a Lawyer but my name never changes.

**1
Michru LIES.. bull crap. .

**2.
You form your own opinion, and wrongly assumed it's what others think.
John 14:28, 20:17 Jesus Christ says himself is NOT his Father and our God.
Jesus is ascending to Our God and his Father.

***3
You go school acquire all the qualifications but Trinity GIBBERISH mess up your thinking cap
Continue DECEIVING yourself.

John 14:28. John 20:17 and Revelations 3:5,12 , John 17:3 , Bros, go and quarrel with Jesus Christ.
Jesus REFUTES your false claims.

Csonice1:
GENESIS 1:26&27
"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

God's nature is in man: man was called Adam; representing mankind. When another personality (Eve) was to be created, she was taken out of the man: so Eve was in the man. Adam understood what happened and it reflected on his words when he met Eve. Note that despite the fact that they are two, the man and his wife were one flesh. How much more they that are one Spirit? : for God is Spirit.

Christ is/was/will continue to be in God: as an integral dimension of Him;
ie His Word: who was with Him in the beginning, and was God. (John 1:1&2).
He was made flesh for our redemption through the Spirit; So they are three persons in one God.
Both the Father, His Word and His Spirit are one(1John5:7): The Father generates the ideas; His Word goes forth ; and executes it by the power of the Spirit.

what do you think? does Christ not have only one bride: Even though there are many members (persons)?
The Spirit of the Lord in every Christian, is He not one? (and yet He is in us and also with everyone of us). So, the Spirit of the Father is also in His Son Jesus and the same Spirit is known in the Bible as the Spirit of Jesus.

This is a mystery: and only those who submit to the teaching of the Author of Scriptures can understand it: it's only when you become a humble learner of the Word that u are able to teach those who yet do not understand. Some people go to God's Word as if trying to learn from a colleague or worse still trying to teach Him(God) what they thought they know.
let's remove pride and human doctrinal limitations when studying God's word
Shalom.

[b]
There is NO mystery in a man made SCAM not taught by holy Scriptures.

Genesis 1:27 , Genesis 5:1-2, "He , God created man in his own image and likeness".

Does "He , His" mean Triune being?

The only honest answer is No.
Genesis 1:26, God spoke to His son (revealed in Hebrews 1:1-2.) God created the universe THROUGH His Son.
The Father and Son are different beings.
Ephesians 4:6, John 17:3. 1 Corinthians 3:23.
One God, the only true God is NOT Jesus, whether in heaven or Earth.
Revelations 3:5 (Compare Matt10:32, is Jesus his Father's son in heaven?)
Jesus says Yes ooooo!
Yahweh Almighty God has no Father anywhere!

John 17:17 " The Word Jesus is NOT his Father's speech or spoken word.
Trinitarians framed that FRAUD claiming the Word is God's speech
John 7:16, Hebrew 1:1-2, Jesus is his Father's APPOINTED Spokesman,
Mark 9:7 , God commands everyone to "Listen to Jesus".

Matt 12:38, Luke 11:20,Jesus said "holy spirit is the finger of God".
Is Yahweh's finger a living being ?
Honest answer, No .

Reject that FRAUD you were taught in Sunday school. John 8:32.
1 John 5:7 KJV is a proven Textus receptus FRAUD , pls erase that verse from this thread[/b]

Janosky:


[b]There is NO mystery in a man made SCAM not taught by holy Scriptures.

Genesis 1:27 , Genesis 5:1-2, "He , God created man in his own image and likeness".

Does "He , His" mean Triune being?

The only honest answer is No.
Genesis 1:26, God spoke to His son (revealed in Hebrews 1:1-2.) God created the universe THROUGH His Son.
The Father and Son are different beings.
Ephesians 4:6, John 17:3. 1 Corinthians 3:23.
One God, the only true God is NOT Jesus, whether in heaven or Earth.
Revelations 3:5 (Compare Matt10:32, is Jesus his Father's son in heaven?)
Jesus says Yes ooooo!
Yahweh Almighty God has no Father anywhere!

John 17:17 " The Word Jesus is NOT his Father's speech or spoken word.
Trinitarians framed that FRAUD claiming the Word is God's speech
John 7:16, Hebrew 1:1-2, Jesus is his Father's APPOINTED Spokesman,
Mark 9:7 , God commands everyone to "Listen to Jesus".

1 John 5:7 KJV is a proven Textus receptus FRAUD , pls erase that verse from this thread[/b]

I thought it not wise to answer you.
However, let me give you this; perhaps you might get a glimpse:
God's name there [in Genesis] is "Elohim" , go and search that out if you will. make sure you take note whether it's singular or plural.

are you satisfied?

People Do get the trinity wrong and op is wrong to say that Jesus Christ is the Father.

We must allow the scripture speak for itself.

From the very first book of the bible, the trinity appeared.
God said let us create man in our image.

God was not speaking to titles or offices or forms but to real persons.

The trinity is not God in three offices or titles, or forms but rather God in three persons.

As a human being you only exist as one person i.e having just one center of consciousness of your being but God is not like that.
God has three center of consciousness of his own being.
God the father, the word and the holy Ghost are different persons of the one God , hence one person of the trinity can interact as a separate individual from the other, but still make no mistake all persons know they are one God.

Your hand can communicate with every member of your body, and still retain its identity as your hand but still the hand known that it is still your body.

Each member of the trinity can relate with one another as full and separate individual, having a mind and will of it's own but yet it is one God.

Each person is fully infinite, incomprehensible God, but yet distinct as a person.

In other words, each person has one essence but separate individuals.

Essence is the substance, the material in which someone or something is made off.
Your essence is what stuff you are made off, that makes you different from others.

Person mean consciousness, the awareness of you as yourself.

The trinity is one in essence but three in person, that means unlike you that exist as a mono person, God exist as Trinue persons, hence it is difficult for humans to grasp the concept of trinity.
Trinity is not three offices or three roles, or forms like some erroneously think but persons.

Each person is not a third of God but rather fully God and together it is the same God not more not less.
1×1×1=1.

Csonice1:


I thought it not wise to answer you.
However, let me give you this; perhaps you might get a glimpse:
God's name there is "Elohim", go and search that out if you will. make sure you take note whether it's singular or plural.

are you satisfied?

God's name is not Elohim.
Hebrew EL is strictly monotheistic.
Which Israelite believed in Trinity ?
If you don't understand Genesis 5:1-2 and 1:27, Matter 19:4, no be my fault. Jesus said Elohim is a "He".
Does "He" mean a Triune being?
Is Elohim plural at Hosea12:3-4?

YHWH - Jehovah / Yahweh. Exodus 6:3. Psalms 83:18. Jesus made known his Father's name John 17:26.

Elohim is a title , Hebrew EL is a title for Yahweh , for angels (Psalms 8:5. Hosea12:3-4), for man & for Jesus ( Psalms 82:1,6. 1 Corinthians 8:5)
Everything you saw in my post up there is in your Bible.

No addition , no subtraction

Janosky:

God's name is not Elohim.
YHWH - Jehovah / Yahweh. Exodus 6:3. Psalms 83:18. Jesus made known his Father's name John 17:26.

Elohim is a title , Hebrew EL is a title for Yahweh , for angels (Psalms 8:5. Hosea12:3-4), for man & for Jesus ( Psalms 82:1,6. 1 Corinthians 8:5)
Everything you saw in my post up there is in your Bible.

No addition , no subtraction

"LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE.."
DOES THAT NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?

THINKING ALOUD: LOOK @ ME, HOW DO I EXPECT A MAN TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT WITH A CARNAL MINDSET?.
Conversation ends here.

Csonice1:


"LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE.."
DOES THAT NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?

THINKING ALOUD: LOOK @ ME, HOW DO I EXPECT A MAN TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT WITH A CARNAL MINDSET?.
Conversation ends here.

If You don't understand Genesis 1:27 and 5:1-2, (Matthew 19:4 , Jesus quote Genesis 1:27), no be my fault.
Matthew 19:4, Jesus, the eye witness, says Elohim is a "He",his Father.
Genesis 1:27,5:1-2 is very accurate.
Trinitarians frame up of Genesis 1:26 is FRAUDULENT. Argue with Jesus.



You don't desire to reject the SCAM you learnt in Sunday school