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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! (13004 Views)
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Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Image123(m): 5:29am On Aug 27, 2020 |
Blabbermouth: Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. It is strewn all over Scripture you'd be dead not to see it. |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by bloodofthelamb(m): 7:56am On Aug 27, 2020 |
DrLiveLogic:Well detailed. 1 Like |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by butterfly777(m): 8:00am On Aug 27, 2020 |
Blabbermouth: You are even wrong from your question. Jesus Christ was not angel become human. He was God, who took human form. 1 Like |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Nobody: 8:26am On Aug 27, 2020 |
butterfly777: Before taking human form, he was an angel NOT God, that's why Isaiah could say "for a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us, and the rulership will rest on his shoulder, his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9:6 He was never a human child before coming to the earth, neither was he a ruler before then that's the import of the consistent use of the word "WILL" because he was never a human Child, Counselor, God, Father, nor sue for Peace before then, rather he was a mighty warrior angel in heaven until God transformed him into a fetus in the womb of a Jewish virgin girl called Mary! There was nowhere in the OT that referred to him as God before his human life on earth! ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by bloodofthelamb(m): 8:27am On Aug 27, 2020 |
Emusan:Jehovah witness are hell bent on believing their own lies or they simply have comprehension issue. The person who was speaking was before Gods earlier creation which means he cannot be a created being. 2 Likes |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Nobody: 8:30am On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Just go and read only Proverbs 8:22 alone using different versions of the Bible then come back and tell us if the person speaking wasn't part of the creation! ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by bloodofthelamb(m): 8:50am On Aug 27, 2020 |
Maximus69: You are simply saying that there was a time in the existence of God that He was without wisdom. This is the implication of your theology. Jehovah witness is simply saying that wisdom which is one of God is not eternal as He is. You are simply saying that God was simply foolish and without wisdom until he created and produce it. You are saying that God's wisdom is not eternal as God is. We all can agree that wisdom is the one speaking in Proverb 8 or do you disagree? If this is so, then God is not self sufficient. 1 Like |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Nobody: 9:16am On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Your PERSONAL opinion Sir! Jesus (Michael) in his prehuman existence is the one speaking not some imaginary wisdom Sir! ![]() There was never a time God began possessing WISDOM as an attributes, it has always been his own, just like all other attributes like POWER, JUSTICE, LOVE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS and many more. The person speaking @ Proverbs 8:22-31 is a separate entity telling us the part he played during creation that's all! John 1:1-5 It was Trinitarians who misinterpreted John 1:1 where they rendered it "and the word was God" instead of "and the word was a god" But all these is just paperwork arguement Sir, go and make use of the wisdom your God possessed to unite all of you just as Michael (Jesus) prayed for his followers saying "they should be one" as in having the same line of thought! John 17:21-23 Jehovah's Witnesses who claims that Jesus is angel Michael have succeeded in forming one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers, whereas LOOK! Politics and Racism is devastating all other religions! Luke 11:23 ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by bloodofthelamb(m): 9:41am On Aug 27, 2020 |
Maximus69:mischievous I must say. Proverb 8 is all about wisdom. The writer here personified it and Jehovah witness always used this text as a proof of the creation of Jesus Christ which unsurprisingly is the wisdom of God according to Scripture. Go and meditate upon your reply to me and the scale will fall of your eyes. By the way, you are right wisdom has always being God's own and He never created it as your group is insinuating. |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Emusan(m): 9:53am On Aug 27, 2020 |
Maximus69: Always spewing thrashes. It means God is lying by claiming the creation was done BY HIMSELF AND ALONE! Of course Jesus (Michael) is his first creature so Michael could say "before everything else i was born" {Proverbs 8:24-25} so the same person explained what he meant by "before his works of old" Like I do say, if you have studied that Prov 8 very well you won't continue to be living in the delusion of those men. According to Prov 8, Yahweh Himself was carrying out the acts of creation not another being which the SPEAKER HIMSELF said. And this was confirmed by Yahweh Himself in Isaiah 44:24 and Job 38 This is what Blabbermouth keep saying, you're now imputing your own interpretation here, the person speaking is not some imaginary wisdom but an entity on his own otherwise he couldn't have been asked to sit at God's right hand if he's not a separate person! Psalms 110:1 See this deluded person, wasn't boldly written from the beginning of the same chapter that it was WISDOM who is speaking and even your demonic organization has once said about Prov 8 as being WISDOM personification. Jesus is the wisdom and power of your God. No wonder you don't have mind of your own rather following the doctrine of men. 1 Like |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Emusan(m): 10:29am On Aug 27, 2020 |
Maximus69: Which one is your own opinion? Jesus (Michael) in his prehuman existence is the one speaking not some imaginary wisdom Sir! This is good since you boldly say it's Jesus speaking, now let's look into the text of that Prov 8 and see if it's not YAHWEH Himself speaking. ANALYSIS OF PROV 8 10 Receive my (Wisdom/Jesus) instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. Where was Jesus ever issue instruction in the OT? No where we only know about Yahweh instructions. 13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I (wisdom/Jesus) hate. We all know only Yahweh ever said to hate evil, pride and arrogant people. 15 By me (wisdom/Jesus) kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16 By me (Wisdom/Jesus) princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. This is what only YAHWEH know for not any created being. 17 I love them that love me (Wisdom/Jesus); and those that seek me (Jesus) early shall find me. This even nailed your dull brain because it's only YAHWEH people have been SEEKING not a created being, doing so will amount to idolatry. 18 Riches and honour are with me (Jesus); yea, durable riches and righteousness. Whereas it's only YAHWEH who possesses RICHES and Honor. 21 That I may cause those that love me (Jesus) to inherit substance; and I (Jesus) will fill/bless their treasures. This is your Jesus claiming to be the one blessing people the only prerogative known about Yahweh throughout the OT. There was never a time God began possessing WISDOM as an attributes, it has always been his own, just like all other attributes like POWER, JUSTICE, LOVE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS and many more. That's why we've been telling you that it was the ETERNAL WISDOM of Yahweh speaking there not a created being, that was the time YAHWEH BROUGHT FORTH His own wisdom to create heavens and earth which is the reason Yahweh can authoritative says He created heavens ALONE and BY HIMSELF. The person speaking @ Proverbs 8:22-31 is a separate entity telling us the part he played during creation that's all! John 1:1-5 But the same person speaking said "26 While as yet he(Yahweh) had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he( Yahweh) prepared the heavens, I was there: when he(Yahweh) set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he(Yahweh) established the clouds above: when he(Yahweh) strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he(Yahweh) gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he(Yahweh) appointed the foundations of the earth: When the speaker can simply say, "When I was commanded to establish the clouds above or I was commanded to appoint the foundations of the earth." It was Trinitarians who misinterpreted John 1:1 where they rendered it "and the word was God" instead of "and the word was a god" How does this relate to John 1:1? All these verses in the scripture that confirmed Jesus deity always hitting you people hard. But all these is just paperwork arguement Sir, go and make use of the wisdom your God possessed to unite all of you just as Michael (Jesus) prayed for his followers saying "they should be one" as in having the same line of thought! John 17:21-23 Another Mumbo jumbo! No wonder, divorce is rampage in your midst and even parent can prevent their daughter from marrying another witness. Jehovah's Witnesses who claims that Jesus is angel Michael have succeeded in forming one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers, whereas LOOK! Politics and Racism is devastating all other religions! Luke 11:23 The same family that hates each other but only pretending to love each other in the Hall. At least you agreed it's your demonic organization who CLAIMED JESUS is Michael and not the Holy Scripture. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by DrLiveLogic(m): 10:49am On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb:Thanks. bloodofthelamb:LMAO. Only JWs like Maximus69 and Janosky with all the wisdom they have believe that God had wisdom from time immemorial to create but he had to first create Wisdom(Jesus) to help him create. Confused lots. Their god was either lacking wisdom and hence a foolish god who despite his foolishness was still able to create wisdom ![]() Emusan:Thank you guys for saving me stress. I wanted to do exactly this later. These people's beliefs are so irrational and they call those who really believe the bible, irrational. What a commendation from them. LMAO! 1 Like |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Nobody: 1:25pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
DrLiveLogic: You're the funniest clown on planet earth! ![]() Let me enlighten all of you from the little the true Born Again Christians taught me. God created Michael (Jesus) as the first creature and empowered him with his holy spirit to join him in making other things that all of us are enjoying today. The electricity, automobile, train, boat, aeroplane, space ship, radio, television, computer, mobile devices and every other thing making life sweeter today are all the works of God but he made us of his creatures like you and i to do all of these just as he used Jesus (Michael) and other heavenly creatures in doing other things! ![]() That's why Jesus (Michael) who has been with Jehovah from the beginning of creation could tell his earthly followers "do you want to become part of my father's co-worker in creating the new system of things?, Ask him to assist you with his Holy Spirit and you'll become a very good instrument in his hands" Matthew 7:7-11 compare to Jeremiah 18:6 The new earth of obedient mankind is gradually taking shape before your eyes and all of you are eyewitnesses to the works of God's holy spirit as people are coming from different races under the heavens to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4} let it be known amongst all unbelievers that Jehovah is the one doing this but he is empowering humans globally known as Jehovah's Witnesses to accomplish his purpose, soon he will give Michael (Jesus) the order to destroy all rebellious descendants of Adam {Revelations 16:14-16} who aren't ready to submit to the works of God's holy spirit! Luke 19:27 So it's JEHOVAH who is doing all of this but he's using his obedient servants to participate in his work {Psalms 110:3 compare Revelations 22:17} Jehovah is inviting us to join in the work so don't let what Michael (Jesus) said @ Proverbs 8 confuse you, he himself is part of God's fellow workers {1Corinthians 3:9} that's why JEHOVAH called us his Witnesses as in plural and Michael (Jesus) his chosen Servant singular {Isaiah 43:10} so Jesus (Michael) is a one of us a faithful Witness of Jehovah! Revelations 1:5 ![]() 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 2:19pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Proverbs8:22 "Lord Jehovah created* me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works". * Bros, what is the meaning of Hebrew Qanah in Psalms 139:13, Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22 ? Triune pagan deity devotees, Continue deceiving yourselves ![]() ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by bloodofthelamb(m): 2:31pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
Janosky: So you are saying there was a time in the existence of your Jehovah that he was foolish and unwise until he produce and created wisdom for himself. 1 Like |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Blabbermouth: 2:41pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
butterfly777:Sweetheart, proof your second statement with Bible verses from the old testament only. PS: I never said or believed Jesus was an Angel. |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by DappaD: 2:46pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Noo noo don't try to twist everything to make JWs look bad biko. The above is what you and your trinity cohorts have been insinuating ever since the start of this thread—except you're not bright enough to realise this. Jehovah's Witnesses from their in-depth study of the Bible, together with other Scriptures such as John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17 and Revelation 3:14, have come to understand that the writer of Proverbs 8 had somebody in mind when he was inspired by Jehovah to put his thoughts in writing—that person being the first creature that God created—Jesus Christ(archangel Michael). We know that Jehovah God has always existed from eternity and He has always been wise (Psalm 93:2, 104:24)—that's why we can't classify the wisdom at Proverbs 8 to be an abstract form of wisdom—rather that chapter is referring to a person by the name of Jesus Christ(the archangel Michael) It is you and your trinity friends who've been saying that God hasn't always been wise. Don't try to twist it. |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by AntiChristian: 2:53pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
Maximus69: Which should I know? Is the Jw.org meaning or the other 1001 denominational meanings? |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by bloodofthelamb(m): 2:58pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
DrLiveLogic:They're foolish, irrational and blind. There only line of defense is to claim that the one speaking or is portrayed speaking isn't wisdom which is fraudulent because from the beginning of Proverb 8 it is clear who is speaking. |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 3:44pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Bros, why are you are running away from a very simple question? Say the unbiased truth in your Bible (meaning of Hebrew 7069) and shame the devil, don't rigmarole ![]() I repeat the question again... Bros, what is the meaning of (Hebrew7069) Hebrew Qanah in Psalms 139:13, Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22 ? ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 3:54pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Proverbs 8:3 , is Wisdom is personified as woman? Proverbs 8:22-30, Wisdom is a master craftsman. Bros, woman dey do master craftsman? Una, Trinitarians, know say Jesus Christ is the wisdom personified in Proverbs8:22-30, but una pride no let una confess Jesus is a creature, the Son of Hebrews1:2. ("Firstborn of every creature",so says the New Testament). Dubiously fraudulent Triune pagan deity devotees ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Blabbermouth: 3:55pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
Image123:The scripture says 1. Unto us a child is born. Commentary: That child is a human child (I.e. baby Jesus) Then it continues and says 2."The government SHALL be upon his shoulder. His name SHALL be called " Commentary:The same Human child will then become 3. Wondeful counsellor, Mighty God..... Commentary: The Human child shall become a God Your scripture proves the opposite I.E. Humanity become Divinity. That's not what we want, we need Divinity(I.e God) become humanity(human). 2 Likes |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 4:02pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
Blabbermouth: Simple submission: All the titles, "Prince of Peace" Wonderful Counselor", Mighty God" etc did not belong to Jesus until a futuristic time after his birth. Triune pagan deity devotees no dey see am ![]() ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 4:05pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
Blabbermouth: Only Yahweh could have revealed that Truth to you ![]() ![]() ![]() Matt16:16-17 |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by bloodofthelamb(m): 4:24pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
DappaD:All those scriptures you put up there didn't prove that God created Jesus Christ. It's highly impossible that God created Jesus through Jesus because the same Colossians 1:16 says, For by(through) Him(Jesus) all(all means all with no exception) things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible (nothing was exempted here) whether thrones or dominion or principalities or power. All(again "all" is being reemphasized) things were created through Him and for Him. It is either you guys have comprehension issues or you guys are playing the devils advocate. If God really created Jesus at the beginning as you people believe then, it will be He created Him through Him. |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by DappaD: 4:45pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: You are a SCAMMER Mr bloodofthelamb sir! How convenient of you to skip the verse 15 of that chapter which calls Jesus the “firstborn of all creation.” Is the Almighty God Jehovah a creation? ![]() Please don't be stupid |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by DappaD: 4:46pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Can you speak on behalf of the beliefs/tenets of DrLiveLogic? Or does he have his own definition of your trinity god? ![]() What's up with the other thread—seems you ran away ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 4:52pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
bloodofthelamb: Bros, go back to Proverbs8:22-30... Is the craftsman working under Lord Jehovah, His Creator ? Simple answer: Yes. Bros, what's the meaning of Greek 1223 @ Colossians 1:16, @ John 1:3, @ Hebrews1:2? ("A proposition denoting a channel ,Agent for an act". For instance, You bought house through your Lawyer. Who owns the house? Trinitarians say na Lawyer ![]() ![]() ![]() @ Matthew 28:18, @ John 17:1-3, According to Jesus Christ, who gave Jesus authority and power in both realms? Bros, wetin your Bible talk in Romans 11:35-36 and Ephesians 4:6? Bros , leave that man made Trinity scam deceiving you ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 5:00pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
Emusan:WAYO man twale ! ![]() Proverbs8:22 "Lord Jehovah created* me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works". * Proverbs 8:29-30 "The master craftsman" was created before Yahweh's work of heaven and earth ![]() ![]() Isaiah 44:22 ,Job38:1-7, Ephesians 4:6 and Romans 11:35-36, WAYO man who is the Creator? Greek 1223 @ John 1:3, @ Hebrew 1:2 , @ Col1:16, go remove am from your Bible ![]() Did Yahweh rescued Israel Through someone? Yes. Did Yahweh save the world through someone? Yes Did Yahweh give the tablet of Laws through someone? Yes Did Yahweh created the Universe THROUGH someone? Yes. Greek 1223 @ John 1:3, @ Hebrew 1:2 , @ Col1:16, WAYO man, go remove am from your Bible ![]()
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Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Janosky: 5:16pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
DappaD: My Bros D, What else do you expect from him or them, artful dodgers ![]() I ask him to give us the meaning of Hebrew7069 in Psalms 139:13, Proverbs 8:22 & Gen14:19,22, the Bros done jakpa like Usain Bolt ![]() |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Nobody: 5:44pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
Blabbermouth: You want an old testament proof that Jesus is God? This verse is talking about Jesus Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Psalms 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Psalms 102:24-27 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end. Compare it with Hebrews 1:10-12 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Who is the word of God that spoke in the old testament? Jeremiah 18:5-6 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. The word of the LORD speaks to Jeremiah, only a person can speak yet the word of The LORD identifies himself as Jehovah or Yahweh. John 1vs1 identifies that Jesus is the word of God. The word of God convenes messages to the prophets and patriarchs and identifies himself as The LORD himself. All these evidences and more are a proof from the old testament that Jesus is God himself. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by Nobody: 5:46pm On Aug 27, 2020 |
AntiChristian: You even missed the number, it's over 41,000 interpretation Sir! So you must first ascertain which interpretation is correct before you can make a meaningful correction! ![]() |
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