I have often heard hedonism decried by pretentious superstition, but can someone offer any rational or moral reason why pursuing earthly sensual and self indulgent pleasures is to be avoided?

I mean as long as no one else is harmed or exploited to obtain them, where’s the harm? I mean what else is there anyway?

Rational answers needed please

Modified

Tamaratonye5:
I have often heard hedonism decried by pretentious superstition, but can someone offer any rational or moral reason why pursuing earthly sensual and self indulgent pleasures is to be avoided?

I mean as long as no one else is harmed or exploited to obtain them, where’s the harm? I mean what else is there anyway?

@ bolded - This is the caveat. Generally speaking a hedonistic person will also be narcissistic. Everything for me and other people do not matter. The hedonist has no idea when she or he is hurting other people. People with the capacity to care for others probably do not adopt hedonistic philosophies.

Tamaratonye5:
I have often heard hedonism decried by pretentious superstition, but can someone offer any rational or moral reason why pursuing earthly sensual and self indulgent pleasures is to be avoided?

I mean as long as no one else is harmed or exploited to obtain them, where’s the harm? I mean what else is there anyway?

The Bible advocates for Balance and Reasonable Pursuits of Happiness, so that you hurt no one whether your fellow man or Your Owner, The Lord God, Who has only granted and given you permission to use His Things in a Reasonable Way.

That is what the Bible Counsels, for your continuous good preservation.

If Hedonism is all about seeking pleasure and avoiding suffering, I see nothing wrong with that school of thought.

However, any philosophy that hinders the peaceful coexistence and happiness of other people in the pursuit of one's personal comfort, is not the best.

ggirl4real:
If Hedonism is all about seeking pleasure and avoiding suffering, I see nothing wrong with that school of thought.

However, any philosophy that hinders the peaceful coexistence and happiness of other people in the pursuit of one's personal comfort, is not the best.

And to use the things belonging to Another Person as if it is your own, is very offensive!

That is just the word of Caution here!

Dtruthspeaker:


And to use the things belonging to Another Person as if it is your own, is very offensive!

That is just the word of Caution here!

Of course.

When you use things belonging to others as your own, you hinder their happiness. That is an evil practice.

ggirl4real:


Of course.

When you use things belonging to others as your own, you hinder their happiness. That is an evil practice.

Yes, Please!

But I see that most people forget that All Things, Including Themselves, Belong to God too.

So they also use themselves wrongfully, as you rightly and truly said.

Dtruthspeaker:


Yes, Please!

But I see that most people forget that All Things, Including Themselves, Belong to God too.

So they also use themselves wrongfully, as you rightly and truly said.

The world will be a better place if everyone can live by this simple rule: "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you".

Dtruthspeaker:


The Bible advocates for Balance and Reasonable Pursuits of Happiness, so that you hurt no one whether your fellow man or Your Owner, The Lord God, Who has only granted and given you permission to use His Things in a Reasonable Way.

That is what the Bible Counsels, for your continuous good preservation.

Please prove this god is real. because personally, I am no one’s slave, especially to an entity that attempts to control every aspect of my life, even the afterlife.

And even if I partake of some acts of hedonism, just why would that offend any god? Unless it was a cruel and sadistic control freak. And that leads into the concept of free will. You do not have free will under those conditions.

Dtruthspeaker:


The Bible advocates for Balance and Reasonable Pursuits of Happiness, so that you hurt no one whether your fellow man or Your Owner, The Lord God, Who has only granted and given you permission to use His Things in a Reasonable Way.

That is what the Bible Counsels, for your continuous good preservation.

""The Bible advocates for Balance and Reasonable Pursuits of Happiness, [b]so that you hurt no one whether your fellow man or Your Owner, The Lord God,""


Hahahaha - nah … unless, I guess a person’s gotta watch out for god’s feelings…

Tamaratonye5:
I have often heard hedonism decried by pretentious superstition, but can someone offer any rational or moral reason why pursuing earthly sensual and self indulgent pleasures is to be avoided?

I mean as long as no one else is harmed or exploited to obtain them, where’s the harm? I mean what else is there anyway?

Sadly the bible doesn't want you to enjoy whatever pleasure you desire, it want to control what you can/can't do, and anything sexually pleasurable to humans should be solely provided by your future husband.. God forbids if you actually enjoy anything sexual on your own and/or before marriage. Lol...

Tamaratonye5:
I have often heard hedonism decried by pretentious superstition, but can someone offer any rational or moral reason why pursuing earthly sensual and self indulgent pleasures is to be avoided?

I mean as long as no one else is harmed or exploited to obtain them, where’s the harm? I mean what else is there anyway?

How do you practice hedonism without harming someone?

ThothHermes:
How do you practice hedonism without harming someone?

Can't you eat chocolate without hurting others? Chocolate represent pleasure obviously.

There is even a distinction between hedonistic egoism and ethical hedonism with the latter saying that what we do should increase the pleasure of others and reduce their suffering.

Tmach137:

@ bolded - This is the caveat. Generally speaking a hedonistic person will also be narcissistic. Everything for me and other people do not matter. The hedonist has no idea when she or he is hurting other people. People with the capacity to care for others probably do not adopt hedonistic philosophies.

I’m not sure they’re entirely mutually exclusive, are they? I mean there are biological restraints on just how relentlessly we can pursue pleasure, but it strikes me that the times when I have enjoyed myself the most was when I could share those pleasures with others, especially those I care about.

After all what is more self indulgent than enjoying the company of those we care for and love. I guess it’s a balance between what we want, and what others need from us.

Dtruthspeaker:


The Bible advocates for Balance and Reasonable Pursuits of Happiness, so that you hurt no one whether your fellow man or Your Owner, The Lord God, Who has only granted and given you permission to use His Things in a Reasonable Way.

That is what the Bible Counsels, for your continuous good preservation.

The bible also advocates slavery, and portrays a vicious capricious deity, that commits indiscriminate mass murder, even torturing a new born baby to death at one point to punish its parents for conceiving it in an adulterous affair, and causing a global genocidal flood. All the while encouraging its followers into acts of evil ethnic cleansing, and the sex trafficking of female prisoners. So your claim is baffling.

Besides, why should I care what the bible says anymore than any other work of fiction?

Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity?

ThothHermes:
How do you practice hedonism without harming someone?

Why would it necessarily?

Tmach137:

Please prove this god is real. because personally, I am no one’s slave, especially to an entity that attempts to control every aspect of my life, even the afterlife.

The simplest Proof I would give you goes thus, like the Camry and iPhone, you know not when you are born and neither did you Control your birth, nor can you prevent your death nor Control it (excluding suicide) either!

And some Greater Person has claimed that He Controls All things.

No man is in a Position to validly Rebut this Claim because You Do Not Know Anything About How You came about, neither where you present when you were being manufactured.

The Proper Person or Persons Who can validly rebut such a claim are Persons of the Same Standing or Persons Higher than The Claimant but this Can Never be You the manufactured man.

As Camry and iPhone can Never Know to say that you are not the Creator of them and that it is Mr Toyoda and Steve Jobs.

No Man Can Ever Possibly Know!

And the Mighty Thing we see and have seen is that No Other Greater is even Contesting Ownership With Him!

Tmach137:

And even if I partake of some acts of hedonism, just why would that offend any god? Unless it was a cruel and sadistic control freak. And that leads into the concept of free will. You do not have free will under those conditions.

The simplest answer is this, if you can hedon past these Laws without breaking any one of them, then you are cleared to Hedon on!

The Tenets of the Law is to Live Honestly, Hurt No One and to Give To Each His Due

Any breach of any of these Laws lead to the occurence of an Offence!

As I said earlier "to use the Property belonging to Another Person as if it is your own exclusively, is very offensive!

Tamaratonye5:

The bible also advocates slavery, and portrays a vicious capricious deity, that commits indiscriminate mass murder, even torturing a new born baby to death at one point to punish its parents for conceiving it in an adulterous affair, and causing a global genocidal flood. All the while encouraging its followers into acts of evil ethnic cleansing, and the sex trafficking of female prisoners. So your claim is baffling.

Besides, why should I care what the bible says anymore than any other work of fiction?

Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity?

The Bible Never Advocated or Commanded the doing on any one of Such! But you have passed Judgment without a fair trial and there is no appeal before you, so it is vain and needless to answer you.

Tamaratonye5, Dat's An Ijaw Name. U Are An Ijaw Lady Right?

Dtruthspeaker:
No man is in a Position to validly Rebut this Claim because You Do Not Know Anything About How You came about,

This an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy. No claim assertion or belief is validated because it can’t be disproved. The claim is irrational by definition.

The first paragraph is just bizarre, how does anything in it remotely evidence any deity?

Dtruthspeaker:
As Camry and iPhone can Never Know to say that you are not the Creator of them and that it is Mr Toyoda and Steve Jobs.

Again this is bizarre, but we have overwhelming objective evidence that phones are designed and manufactured by humans. We generally also now when something is designed as they don’t occur natural. Humans like all living things evolved, there is no objective evidence that any living thing was designed.

Dtruthspeaker:
As I said earlier "to use the Property belonging to Another Person as if it is your own exclusively, is very offensive!

My brother's ex wife having met someone else, is divorcing him and will take every penny he has, as well as a chunk of his pension, and the law entitles her to do it, despite the fact she’s lived off him for 20 years, hasn’t contributed a penny towards either, or a single household bill or the mortgage, as he owned the house before they met, they have no children.

So your claim is woefully wrong

Dtruthspeaker:


The Bible Never Advocated or Commanded the doing on any one of Such! But you have passed Judgment without a fair trial and there is no appeal before you, so it is vain and needless to answer you.

Exodus 21 describes in detail how to buy and own slaves, and how you beat them to death, as long as they don’t die within 24 hours of the beating.

The old testament abounds with instances of the deity portrayed in it committing acts of indiscriminate murder and genocide. See the Noah’s flood myth as one example. The deity tortured King David’s newborn baby to death in the bible, because it was angered that the baby was conceived in an adulterous affair.

Have you even read the bible?

Tamaratonye5:

This an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy. No claim assertion or belief is validated because it can’t be disproved. The claim is irrational by definition.

It is not a fallacy because I was laying Up A True Fact which is Seen not for the purposes of giving validity but to direct that all men are Automatically Disqualified from commenting on the validity of these matters.

Therefore, everyone is entitled to their own preference.

Tamaratonye5:

The first paragraph is just bizarre, how does anything in it remotely evidence any deity

It is common for man to call and identify his Greaters, who he perceives to be much much Greater and Powerfuler than him and his fellow men "deities"!

Thus, seeing that the world is greater than us and neither did we Build it or Own it, consequently, following reports of A Certain Person Claiming Undisputed Ownership of the world, good reason dictates that such a Person Must Himself Be Greater than The world which we are in and He therefore Has Great Authority Over us, who are in His world.

Tamaratonye5:

Again this is bizarre, but we have overwhelming objective evidence that phones are designed and manufactured by humans.

And this where you Greatly Fall, for No One is Challenging that the man did not Build or Create the Phone, therefore No Dispute as to Ownership.

2) The man creator can not hear the phone complain (if it at all complains) therefore, No Dispute between the Creator and his Phone.

3) The man creator is challenged and can be challenged Either by his Fellow man creator or Another Person Greater than Him and his fellow man creator, Not and Never by the Phone which the man created.

And that is my case you have just established for me, No Man Is Qualified to Challenge or Question The Validity of He Whom we call God, just as the Phone can not challenge its ownership in the hands of man

Tamaratonye5:

We generally also now when something is designed as they don’t occur natural. Humans like all living things evolved, there is no objective evidence that any living thing was designed.

Your opinions are not at present under examination, so the advancement of your good or bad view is premature and unnecessary.

Tamaratonye5:

My brother's ex wife having met someone else, is divorcing him and will take every penny he has, as well as a chunk of his pension, and the law entitles her to do it, despite the fact she’s lived off him for 20 years, hasn’t contributed a penny towards either, or a single household bill or the mortgage, as he owned the house before they met, they have no children.

So your claim is woefully wrong

Wrong! This is the interpretation of the matter.

"My brother's ex wife" meaning she is single and free to mingle, without limitation.

"having met someone else" ah she exercises her natural right to mingle, (No wrong here).

"is divorcing him" meaning they are still married in paper (and not yet an ex-wife) but seperate persons in fact and spirit (Which in my Personal opinion is the True and Complete Divorce).

"and will take every penny he has, as well as a chunk of his pension, and the law entitles her to do it"- And this is the distinction, "the law" made by their fellow men, which they agreed that it shall have power over them and they further agreed to be bound to obey it.

Having Agreed to obey it, therefore, they can be compelled to obey it. That is their First Problem.

The Second problem is, the Greater Law, Nature's Law, which Established Marriages, (for man's law did not establish Marriages), Powerfuly Ties both parties, making them jointly owning, using and sharing everything which may have previously and properly belonged to one of them.

Therefore it is immaterial and becomes immaterial who owns what and who bought what, all is jointly owned.

Therefore, following a Splitting, that which is Co-owned, must be Split also.

So therefore this is not a case that falls within the meaning of Another Person's Property, for by virtue of marriage, they are simply exchanging to each other Their Own own Property, Not Another Person's Property

MrBrownJay1:


Sadly the bible doesn't want you to enjoy whatever pleasure you desire, it want to control what you can/can't do, and anything sexually pleasurable to humans should be solely provided by your future husband.. God forbids if you actually enjoy anything sexual on your own and/or before marriage. Lol...

No it does not, it is simply Giving Warnings about the various Breachable and Surpassible Limits which will surely Damnage Your Vehicle and Engine (Body and Soul) if you breach them.

Like every engine comes with a manual, the Bible is your manual warning you what Oil lights, Check engine, brake failures, hazard bells, Red Lines, Early Warning Signs etc.

Dtruthspeaker:


No it does not, it is simply Giving Warnings about the various Breachable and Surpassible Limits which will surely Damnage Your Vehicle and Engine (Body and Soul) if you breach them.

Like every engine comes with a manual, the Bible is your manual warning you what Oil lights, Check engine, brake failures, hazard bells, Red Lines, Early Warning Signs etc.

Rephrase that to.... The bible is like the changes that a perfectly well fonctionng plane needs, in order to enter a race around the world that they might or not win... As no one has ever come back from this race to confirm that A) they won the race and/or B) that these changes was what made them win that race.

Tamaratonye5:

Exodus 21 describes in detail how to buy and own slaves, and how you beat them to death, as long as they don’t die within 24 hours of the beating.

The old testament abounds with instances of the deity portrayed in it committing acts of indiscriminate murder and genocide. See the Noah’s flood myth as one example. The deity tortured King David’s newborn baby to death in the bible, because it was angered that the baby was conceived in an adulterous affair.

Have you even read the bible?

You are Wrong!

For first, you must Remember that No People knew God and Understood His Ways.

And these were a people who themselves, did not know the Lord.

Thus, The Laws in Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy are The Firsts of God's Laws, Given and ISSUED To A PREVIOUSLY NORMAL EVIL PEOPLE, WHO DO AND DID WHAT EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD WAS DOING at that time, Neither Caring if what they did was Good or Not.

Therefore, These First Laws, Was Given To them, To Break Them from Their Former Normal Ways (As the rest of the world did), and Respecting the fact that Old Habits Die Hard, Thus, God Knew that a Complete And Opposing Change of Laws, would not be easy for them to obey.

Therefore in Wisdom, He Restricted The Acts of Which He knew that they are accustomed to doing, knowing that, after they are now accustomed to the restrictions, They would come to Know and Understood That He Does Not Even Like what they do (for at this time, they did not know Him and they did not really care to know Him), therefore, they themselves would on their own volition, set themselves to do Rightness or Righteousness, thereby Finishing the Work of the Lord.

That is why Those Laws Are the way they are.

But they were not given to command people to do wrong rather it was meant to slowly correct them from the wickedness that they are very much accustomed to doing!

MrBrownJay1:


Rephrase that to.... The bible is like the changes that a perfectly well fonctionng plane needs, in order to enter a race around the world that they might or not win... As no one has ever come back from this race to confirm that A) they won the race and/or B) that these changes was what made them win that race.

In my respectful opinion, it is the Living who can race, win or lose, but they can race and always race.

The Bible is simply saying that those who die, race no more"

Dtruthspeaker:


In my respectful opinion, it is the Living who can race, win or lose, but they can race and always race.

The Bible is simply saying that those who die, race no more"

Naaaaaah, in my respectful opinion, the bible is trying to tell people that their plane needs changes in order to win the race, while nobody has ever won the race nor ever came back to tell us they did.

People who decide to keep their plane the way they see fit, and instead of entering a race, they just enjoy flying their plane as they see fit, live better lives without having to race anybody. The only people who are racing are the people who believe what this bible is claiming (aka you need to change your perfectly well functioning plane)

MrBrownJay1:


Naaaaaah, in my respectful opinion, the bible is trying to tell people that their plane needs changes in order to win the race, while nobody has ever won the race nor ever came back to tell us they did.

People who decide to keep their plane the way they see fit, and instead of entering a race, they just enjoy flying their plane as they see fit, live better lives without having to race anybody. The only people who are racing are the people who believe what this bible is claiming (aka you need to change your perfectly well functioning plane)

Since you have merely repeated your statement, for the avoidance of repetitions, it is trite to say that this issue has run its course.

Ecclesiastes 11:9

Nobody wants stress or suffering, but Jesus of Nazareth said something that needed to be given a thorough meditation:- "Whatever you want men to do to you, do likewise to them" Matthew 7:12

This is what most people refer to as the golden rule, yet they don't meditate thoroughly on the import of Jesus' statement.

So let's bring it home!
You misplaced your mobile device, money fell out of your pocket or you lost your diamond ring.
What would you expect anyone who finds it to do?
Sell it or keep it to himself?

Your daughter is 19 years old, you've spent time, energy and resources to raise her now she's in the varsity, but she wants to explore like other girls. What would you expect a charming married young man she's playing with in school to do with her? Treat her like his own younger sister?

You're in a supermarket and while watching you noticed a smart thief had his way with someone's wallet, but an innocent boy was everyone's suspect and they're handling him over to the police. Will you stand up and speak for the voiceless? Or you'll mind your business?
What would you have expected if you're the boy?

People who only seek pleasures can't step in to do what is needed because they just don't want anything to hinder their pleasure! 2Timothy 3:4

That's what Jesus meant!

Dtruthspeaker:

Tamaratonye5: Exodus 21 describes in detail how to buy and own slaves, and how you beat them to death, as long as they don’t die within 24 hours of the beating.

The old testament abounds with instances of the deity portrayed in it committing acts of indiscriminate murder and genocide. See the Noah’s flood myth as one example. The deity tortured King David’s newborn baby to death in the bible, because it was angered that the baby was conceived in an adulterous affair.

Have you even read the bible?

You are Wrong!

Quoted verbatim from your bible in Exodus 21

21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them.
When you buy a Hebrew slave,


6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

So you're talking bollocks, Dtruthspeaker

Dtruthspeaker:
For first, you must Remember that No People knew God and Understood His Ways.

Yet you claim to know that about the deity you believe in, hilarious that you don’t seem to see the ironic contradiction.