@Enigma
If really there was a god and he was really what you claim he is , you would find it pretentious to call other people mumu while still claim to be righteous
But in reality, you have a embraced some confused poorly written doctrine that conflicts itself in every step and in every way, where the "saviour" claims to flawless yet calls "other" people dogs, and claims to be have no bias yet every of the 12 disciples are men ( all jews).
Says love your neighbor as you love yourself and bring those who don't believe in me and slaughter them before me in the next few chapters.
So you go about with that sweaty dog eared bible that you are tucking so tightly under your armpit judging and cursing and yet feeling so holy and moral, but it comes under no surprise,
if your knowledge comes from the bible, then it follows that you know not only so little but wrong information
and you are as conflicted and confused as the book you swear by
You are not a bad christian if that what you think I am purporting.
You are indeed a perfect one, just as perfect as the 9/11 bombers and just as blind and conceited.

^^^ my warning to you is that suposing He exist and you find out only when it is too late?

folaski:

^^^ my warning to you is that suposing He exist and you find out only when it is too late?

my warning to you is that suposing Shango exists and you find out only when it is too late?

^^

Hey Martin , Good ol' boy - We miss you

@martian: the Almighty God reings over everything and He is not a local god. I know that there is a part of you that will be warning you right now. Pls respond to it.

folaski:

@martian: the Almighty God reings over everything and He is not a local god. I know that there is a part of you that will be warning you right now. Pls respond to it.

why didn't you answer my questions in my last post? Or do you just pick and choose which questions to answer like you pick and choose what to believe when you read the bible?

Wow, this Pascal's wager has really opened my eyes to the folly of atheism. From now on, I'm going to become a born-again Christian and serve Jehovah God so he doesn't throw me in hell.

But come to think of it, isn't it risky to stick to just one god? What if my parents were wrong and I'm betting on the wrong horse? I don't want to end up in hell! Just to be safe, I think I'll also start worshipping Allah, Shiva, Orunmila, Chukwu, Egbesu and all of the thousands of other gods. This might take a while.

But then many of these gods have rules against worshipping other gods. If the one true god turns out to be the jealous type (e.g. Yahweh or Allah), he/she is going to be pissed at me for praying to all the others. Not to forget that there are different variants of all these gods (which Yahweh should I worship, the jewish, catholic, pentecostal or jehovah's witness version?).

Gaddem, this stuff is far too much stress. I'm going back to being an athiest (I actually prefer the term rationalist)

@evil brain,
you are a rational clown! Lol!

@manmustwac: about your question ; pls note that i once hated the idea of religion at a time in my life. But later i discovered that whatever brought this world to being must gave a purpose for it. That of course includes my life. The craving to discover why am here and what i stand to gain for living coupled with a kind of emptyness that i felt about life,i began to do a personal search. I only came to discover that every product always come with a mannul. I read all sorts ranging from armoc,grail mesg,the qurian(eng ed.) and the bible. i still have some of the books.I was only impresed by the bold and definitive claims of the bible. Not even any of our ATR could make such consistently bold and beautiful/ reassuring claims. So christianity got my vote. When i adopted it,the first thing was that i had an inexplanable peace and satisfaction. Then i began a quest for the purpose of my existence and when i eventually found it i knew it then that i had got it. I felt like a round peg in a round hole and am enjoying fulfilling it. So it was by the grace of God that i am found and saved. I challeng you to do an open minded,indipendent and sincere search for your self and you will know that there is an incontrovatible creator that loves you.Examine the orthodox faith and not the' pentirascal',and be ready for a pleasant surprise. I was not inductrinate to accep Jesus, my eyes were opened to the truth and i embraced it.

@manmustwac: There is a distinction between disappointment with the behaviour of persons who claim to be religious and the Virtues of a religion. The fact that humans have, over the centuries, been unable to make those ideals that informed the emergence of religion permanent in their lives does not make it the fancy-house you constructed. On the other hand, the atheists' claim of "God does not exist" remain vague since physical science, which they use as the basis for their claim, is admittedly below the level that may be considered as perfect.  Atheists' idols like Richard Dawkins merely said the lack of, what he called, verifiable evidence remains his reason for denying God's existence. Much remain unknown. Therefore, one can at best choose to remain neutral. It makes more sense that way than the  total denial of what cannot be disproved.

@manmustwac: There is a distinction between disappointment with the behaviour of persons who claim to be religious and the Virtues of a religion. The fact that humans have, over the centuries, been unable to make those ideals that informed the emergence of religion permanent in their lives does not make it the fancy-house you constructed. On the other hand, the atheists' claim of "God does not exist" remain vague since physical science, which they use as the basis for their claim, is admittedly below the level that may be considered as perfect.  Atheists' idols like Richard Dawkins merely said the lack of, what he called, verifiable evidence remains his reason for denying God's existence. Much remain unknown. Therefore, one can at best choose to remain neutral. It makes more sense that way than the  total denial of what cannot be disproved.

@yagba: i honestly agree with you.

@folaski: your initial post and subsequent replies are encouraging to anyone interested in knowing man's unique position and obligations in creation. Atheist's refusal to search beyond the physical planes for the TRUTH has rendered their 'proclamation' that "God does not exist" quite trivial. Often times it is the loud nature of their argument that become issues for further discussion. To the atheist, the historical failures of humans to get things right through religion renders it unhelpful to changing the world for the better and there for an illusion. They easily forget the heinous crimes committed under "Godless states" like the former Soviet Union, and the khamer Rouge. All who believe in God and in Christ must, however, remain steadfast in prayers and good deeds for the change and salvation to come true.

Yagba:

@folaski: your initial post and subsequent replies are encouraging to anyone interested in knowing man's unique position and obligations in creation.[b] Atheist's refusal to search beyond the physical planes for the TRUTH has rendered their 'proclamation' that "God does not exist" quite trivial. [/b]Often times it is the loud nature of their argument that become issues for further discussion. To the atheist, the historical failures of humans to get things right through religion renders it unhelpful to changing the world for the better and there for an illusion. They easily forget the heinous crimes committed under "Godless states" like the former Soviet Union, and the khamer Rouge. All who believe in God and in Christ must, however, remain steadfast in prayers and good deeds for the change and salvation to come true.

Yagba you sound familiar.
How does one search beyond the physical planes for the truth ?

I guess the OP is letting us know he really isn't sure about his God and is just playing the odds. Not many christians would admit that. I commend you.

@yagba

Neutral on the topic of God? how is that possible? Either you believe or not. Also the idea of a non physical world is absurd. How is the non physical

like? can it be perceived? what's the different btw the physical and non-physical? Is a distinction viable or meaningful?

Yes godless regimes have committed atrocities, how does that affect atheists, humanists, existentialists, pacifists, stoics, nihilists?

jayriginal. perhaps familiar. The metaphysical aspect of religious life, which leads to the perception and recognition of God, will always evade those who define reality based on what can be garnered through the 'scientific method'. Physical science confine its findings to what can be physically isolated and observed, while the metaphysical involves subjectivity, which gives an insight into truths that are laid beyond the parameters of the still developing physical science. Therefore, anyone wishing to go beyond the physical-physical plane, must be prepared to subject himself/herself to the conditions necessary for the perception and understanding of what lie there.  The The first step is the appreciation of the intricately designed things we see in our world, which should remind us that behind all of these great designs is a master designer. That's one step beyond the physical plane.

@kay 17: It affects atheists who blame religion for every crime committed on earth. May be you should go to other forums (Christianity vs Atheism- Google groups) where atheists constantly expressed their 'fervent belief' that the world would be better without out religion. You mentioned agnostics, nihilists and others but I don't see what common 'features' atheists share with them, so I won't comment on that; except that agnostics might find remaining neutral not totally out of question.

Upon what definition of God do you rely on? Religions are evil on what their doctrines are based, Monotheist religions breed on and promote intolerance, ignorance. . .

The The first step is the appreciation of the intricately designed things we see in our world, which should remind us that behind all of these great designs is a master designer. That's one step beyond the physical plane.

Why does this Master Designer require a designer above him?

@kay 17; the 'evil' you 'see' in religion is the product of your disappointment with the way most of those who claimed to be religious get involved in acts that are harmful to ,or to fellow humans; otherwise you can't genuinely fault the foundations of a religion like Christianity. Is it the the demand for humans to love one another that has evil in it? While Christians cannot present God to atheists the way they want Him presented, simple human virtues that hold the promise for joy on earth needed no subjectivity to be understood and appreciated. I must concede that defining God based on atheists' already defined parameters can never be correctly done by any theist until God Himself changes the ways He wants humans to perceive and recognise Him.

In the Bible, the foundation of Christianity and it promoted racism, genocide, intolerance to other religions, violence, ignorance . . . .

@kay 17: yous opinion would have been different if you had been borne during the dark ages when human sacrifices and carnibalism was the order of the day.

@kay17:master designer: God the creator of heaven and the earth is the Master designer and He does not need any master above Him. In actual fact He has no master or equal. Read the post you responded to again.!

So has God changed? He sanctioned these things. And Saul was evil for not killing women and children. Or are u in fact admitting the bible is filled with wrongs because it was written by humans.

ATLgal:

So has God changed? He sanctioned these things. And Saul was evil for not killing women and children. Or are u in fact admitting the bible is filled with wrongs because it was written by humans.

ROFLMAO! ! !

NB : You got mail.

@Folaski; atheists are like that. Most of them prefer 'louder' arguments than dealing with the substance in particle details.

@ATLgal: The bible is better understood by those who believe that there is only one God who created all that exist; that God has laws governing all of creation and would not shift His stand on these laws, whatsoever; that His wisdom ensured that all He did was good and no useful purpose could be served in making any change. Within these laws there is free will, and there are provisions for reward and punishment. Actions that could attract reward or punishment are clearly understood by all sane humans of adult age. God also reserves the right to take any action against any person or group of persons who, through harmful conducts, seek to delay His plans for the general good of all. Understanding such structures in God's Kingdom would equip us better to 'challenge' seeming wrongs that could ordinarily be blamed on God. Christ made it easier by preaching LOVE which shields humanity from God's punishment. The old testament ways have been replaced with the new Way in Christ Jesus. In all these there are no contradictions.

Iyagba
U are delusional. No contradictions huh. Why do u feel the need to lie for ur God? It is better to admit the truth n say u still choose to worship him. David was a liar n a murderer. These r the kind of people u look up to. On polygamy God bended to human will. One of the very many contradictions.

@ATLgal; So you believed a David existed as recorded in the bible, huh? We are getting somewhere. The bible's records of human failings, which included lying, ought to have reminded critics that it was honestly inspired to be written without concealing those aspects of human conduct which fall short of our expectations regarding those who were described as God's dear ones. It was because of such failings that God inspired the prophets to rebuke all who had left the right way, He later sent Jesus to redirect our steps. God loves those who admit their errors and call them His children. Children commit many errors but would never be abandoned by their parents. Delusional? perhaps we are both delusional, since we have "no evidence to prove" or "disprove" each other' s claim.

@Yagba
The only reason why God seems necessary is to explain nature's complexity. However if there is a bigger and more complex being than nature, there is ad infinitum. Thus destroying the necessity for God.
If God is good, why is there evil? Who created evil?
I think that is the biggest incoherency in the Monotheist God

@Kay 17; The statement; "The only reason why God seems necessary is to explain nature's complexities", is founded on fallible premises of physical sciences. Both theists and atheists subject their 'belief' to various tests to verify their claims. While theists use all known 'tools', including the scientific method, atheists confine their findings within the premises of physical sciences alone. It is therefore premature for you to claim that 'God does not exist' when you have not made use of the other means available. This being the case, atheists remain on the lower rung of the ladder when it comes to understanding 'nature's complexities'.