BlueAngel444:

I'm not trying to convince you sha

About you first tell me what are those "indications" that make you think Jesus was a made up character?

I will recommend two books for you..

https://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story-Ever/dp/0932813747

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jews-Never-Knew-Historical/dp/1578849160

BlueAngel444:

I'm not trying to convince you sha

About you first tell me what are those "indications" that make you think Jesus was a made up character?

Here are Clear Undisputed Prophecies About Messiah, Who he will be and What he will do. How Many Did J-s Fulfill?
* The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon, not Jeconiah, through his human biological father. Genesis 49:10, 2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6; Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Jeremiah 22:30, 36:30, Psalm 89:35-37. Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son Numbers 1:1-18.

J-s didn't have this genealogy, he didn't have a birth father from the Tribe of Judah, in the line from King David and Solomon, not Jeconiah. He had a virgin birth according to Matthew and Luke. And even if he didn't have virgin birth neither genealogy in Matthew 1 or Luke 3 can produce a King to be the Messiah. In Luke 3 the genealogy doesn't go through Solomon as required and in Matthew 1 the genealogy is rejected because it goes though Jeconiah.
II Samuel 7:12-14, I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6, Jeremiah 22:30,36:30.

* When Messiah is reigning as King the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24. This didn't happen, the Jews were dispersed widely after the death of J-s.

* When Messiah comes the Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and sin sacrifices will be fully instituted Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26-27, 45:17-46:16; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21. The Temple was destroyed after the death of J-s.

* When Messiah comes there will be Worldwide Reign of Peace and complete end to war Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18. There are still wars upon wars.

* When Messiah is reigning as King all of the Jewish people will observe Torah Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27. Everyone is not obeying Torah the world is filled with rebellion to the Most High.

* When Messiah comes all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true Elohim Zechariah 3:9, 8:23,14:9,16; Isaiah 45:23, 66:23; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 38:23; Psalm 86:9; Zeph. 3:9.

* J-s didn't fulfill any prophecies about Messiah. He didn't have a human biological father in the royal kingly line, the Jews have not ingathered from their exile, the third Temple has not been rebuilt, there is not world wide peace, there is still war, all the Jewish people are not observing Torah and not all people are serving the Most High.

sonmvayina:


Dtruthspeaker,Dtruthspeaker...nananananana, you are using the new testament to prove the new testament..you went to school right..I expected more from you...do better.

Sonmavayina, sonmavayina... crapcrapcrapcrap, You are raising up an event which occurred Only in What people call the new testament, therefore, the Proof of it by what people wrongly call new testament, is inevitable.

I am very well schooled, evidently far better than you and I do read better than you as Proven even Hereunder!

You stupidly and wrongfully hang on to this statement below, Inspite of its inherent flaws

sonmvayina:

Amos3:7 says "God reveal it to his servant the proohet before it happens"...so which prophet did God reveal it to?

Yet, You who went to school, Did Not Take Account that before the prophets, God Was, and He Spoke Directly, to anyone, in what you people call the old testament BOTH PUBLICLY (As Evidenced in Mt Sinai) And PRIVATELY (As in Noah, Abraham, Moses and your Amos).

Yet, you who went to school, is concentrating on only the Private Communications of God.

Tell me, schooled one, do you think that God, being Who He Is, can be Limited to only one type of communication, as the analogue telephone? (Even the baby of my home in primary school knows the answer).

You shame yourself!

Dtruthspeaker:


Sonmavayina, sonmavayina... crapcrapcrapcrap, You are raising up an event which occurred Only in What people call the new testament, therefore, the Proof of it by what people wrongly call new testament, is inevitable.

I am very well schooled far better than you and I do read better than you as Proven even Hereunder!

You stupidly and wrongfully hang on to this statement below, Inspite of its inherent flaws



Yet, You who went to school, Did Not Take Account that before the prophets, God Was, and He Spoke Directly, to anyone, in what you people call the old testament BOTH PUBLICLY (As Evidenced in Mt Sinai) And PRIVATELY (Noah, Abraham, Moses and your Amos).

Yet, you who went to school, is concentrating on only the Private Communications of God.

Tell me, schooled one, do you think that God, being Who He Is, can be Limited to only one type of communication? (Even the baby of my home in primary school knows the answer).

You shame yourself!

Lol..you answer the question..God is the divine consciousness personified..not a genie or a jewish man up in the sky...

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man or human being...

The only way to communicate with God is through an oracle...any other way is a waste off time..that is why the prophet always says "thus says that lord...."

sonmvayina:


Lol..you answer the question..God is the divine consciousness personified..not a genie or a jewish man up in the sky...

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man or human being...

haha, I was coming to add that Now You Must Move to Another Stupid Issue, because you can not validly counter but I then saw that you were here already, AND YOU HAVE PROVEN IT ABOVE ALREADY!

so as I have told you before, be the devil you are.

sonmvayina:

The only way to communicate with God is through an oracle...any other way is a waste off time..that is why the prophet always says "thus says that lord...."

See what who went to school says up there!
"The only way to communicate with God is through an oracle..."

For saying "communicate with God" you are talking about.man picking up the phone of an oracle, to talk to God, WHICH IS NOT THE ISSUE!

So I therefore ask oh ye, Educated One, Does God need to pick up an Oracle's phone to call you?

You continue to shame and ridicule thyself!

[quote author=sonmvayina post=94468178]
First and foremost he did not write anything.so we don't know what his mission was.if he was a jew then he would have known that the Torah is Gods laws and no one has the right to alter it

It was more of an oral culture, and even Socrates did not write anything. Weak arguement there.

Secondly there is no writting from anyone who knew him personally..the four gospel are written by unknown authors and written in the third person..

His closest followers were mostly uneducated Gallilean fishermen, and so historians are not surprised that they wrote nothing.

Thirdly all the stories about him and all he said where all thought by sages before him..there is nothing original about him ..

This is not true, his parables were mostly unique, his golden rule ( Matthew 7v12) was different from that of Heliel ( a pharisee who lived 100 years before him), also love your enemies is unique in the context he taught it.

4thly There is no where it says god have a son from a human mother,is that even possible

Jesus was not a physical son of God from a mother, but he was Israel ( the spiritual son of God). The book of Matthew made this clear.
I agree however that Luke ( a Greek author ) may have had a different idea as he tried to show that jesus ( that holy thing) from a virgin shall be called the son of God.
However Christians do not generally interpret the virgin birth as God mating with Mary, only that jesus came through mary because he existed before, and could not come through the sperm of a man.
For me personally, jesus is the son of Joseph, and people who read the gospel of Mark only (the first gospel) would arrive at no other conclusion or an idea of a virgin birth.

Dtruthspeaker:


haha, I was coming to add that Now You Must Move to Another Stupid Issue, because you can not validly counter but I then saw that you were here already, AND YOU HAVE PROVEN IT ABOVE ALREADY!

so as I have told you before, be the devil you are.



See what who went to school says up there!
"The only way to communicate with God is through an oracle..."

For saying "communicate with God" you are talking about.man picking up the phone of an oracle, to talk to God, WHICH IS NOT THE ISSUE!

So I therefore ask oh ye, Educated One, Does God need to pick up an Oracle's phone to call you?

You continue to shame and ridicule thyself!

I don't really know where to begin education from...I dont want to concur that you are a lost cause..but it is lookinqqg like that..I think a good first step will be for you to see a psychiatrist..asap

AvsGot007:
yes, but does the book explain creation before God?

LMAO... Just read what you wrote.

How does it make any sense

Creation means something created by a creator

So how can there be creation before a creator?

Haba

sonmvayina:


I want to assume you have at least finished secondary school..you know that is not an answer...so please do better, which prophet proohesied this solution ? When did God reveal it ..I really want to come to your side,but you have to least be more convincing..from all indication this jesus character is made up...convince me otherwise..

Ahhh, your question was: "when did God this idea?"

Of which I answered correctly, is a simple answer like that is beyond you how was I to know, lol.

sonmvayina:


First and foremost he did not write anything.so we don't know what his mission was.if he was a jew then he would have known that the Torah is Gods laws and no one has the right to alter it.

Jesus did not alter the Torah, he literally taught from it has recorded in the gospels. So your point one is an accusation without proof.

Secondly there is no writting from anyone who knew him personally..the four gospel are written by unknown authors and written in the third person..

another accusation without proof that is more of like a lie. Matthew and John were apostles, John 21:24.

Thirdly all the stories about him and all he said where all thought by sages before him..there is nothing original about him ..

I agree that the teachings of Jesus were rooted from scripture but the sages you speak off, who are they, are persons accountable to God and ones who may be known

4thly There is no where it says god have a son from a human mother,is that even possible ?..

the very Torah you claim to know says in Genesis and Job. the sons of God

Another point yet again in error. All four points cardinally locate you in a heap of futile claim and a chance to see the truth.

sonmvayina:


I will recommend two books for you..

https://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story-Ever/dp/0932813747

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jews-Never-Knew-Historical/dp/1578849160

I won't, how about you tell what you learnt from these books that make them referrable by you

sonmvayina:


Here are Clear Undisputed Prophecies About Messiah, Who he will be and What he will do. How Many Did J-s Fulfill?
* The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon, not Jeconiah, through his human biological father. Genesis 49:10, 2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6; Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Jeremiah 22:30, 36:30, Psalm 89:35-37. Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son Numbers 1:1-18.

Let me first start with the scriptures you quoted before I descend on your comment or plausible and falsible conclusion.

Genesis 49:10 firstly, Joseph is from the tribe of Judah as shown by his migration for the Cesar census to his hometown in Judah. It is even said that Mary's father is from Judah the legal adopter of Joseph. Now that's likely the reason you quoted that verse but skipped this

UNTIL SHILOH COMES Shiloh means peace, and Lord Jesus Christ is the Prince of peace, who gather the eklessia, the gathering of the people.

The succession of kings ended with his arrival and hope you know God never started with Judah in picking kings and leaders for the nation Israel.

It is nice you quoted God's word to David as recorded in 2 Samuel 7 and it's copy in 1 Chronicles 17 but how with your many scriptures did you miss this
1. Jeremiah 23:5 the LORD says He WILL, meaning it is something he was yet to do.
2. Jeremiah 22:30, even from verse 24 God rejected the descendant of Solomon, the promise was to David not Solomon. Solomon who though God visited as recorded in 1 kings 11, built hundreds of shines and brought so much witchcraft into Israel.

That's why the blood of Joseph did not flow in Jesus. This is mystery of what he represents.
That why also in Luke 3:31 it was David's son Nathan's lineage whom God used.

Excuse me, have you read Numbers 27:1-11, while quoting Numbers 1

BlueAngel444:
LMAO... Just read what you wrote.

How does it make any sense

Creation means something created by a creator

So how can there be creation before a creator?
Avsgot007
Haba

haha
Something created God yeah?
Think deep before you answer that.
I bet you have no idea we are all gods,we are creators as well.

Most don't just have the knowledge.
Like I wrote, you should really read more books than your bible.

J-s didn't have this genealogy, he didn't have a birth father from the Tribe of Judah, in the line from King David and Solomon, not Jeconiah. He had a virgin birth according to Matthew and Luke. And even if he didn't have virgin birth neither genealogy in Matthew 1 or Luke 3 can produce a King to be the Messiah. In Luke 3 the genealogy doesn't go through Solomon as required and in Matthew 1 the genealogy is rejected because it goes though Jeconiah.
II Samuel 7:12-14, I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6, Jeremiah 22:30,36:30.

Sonmvayina I have proved that your comment and conclusion in this section to be crap. Read my last response again as much as you can .

Your error was to think that God's word and promise to David was to both David and Solomon. Error. While rejecting that Nathan is a son of David 1 Chronicles 3:5 and that while God rejected a blood descendant of Solomon he made a man called Zerubbabel, son of Shealtiel, his signet ring. (Read Zechariah, Ezra, Haggai)

We know that God word is finally and the Lord cut off Jeconiah, meaning he had no descendants and a brother or relative would bear sons for him. Matthew leaves out some names, Luke doesn't, he likely went with records in his writing.

* When Messiah is reigning as King the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24. This didn't happen, the Jews were dispersed widely after the death of J-s.

keyword: When he is reigning as King. Notes Isaiah and Daniel spoke of his first coming as one who would be cut off
Deut 30:3 He will gather them, vs.4 even if any be at the out most parts of heaven. Jude vs14, Revelation 14:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31... Gather together from all earth and from all heaven.

Your error was also neglecting that Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah didn't do everything and will return. The second coming.

Isaiah 11:11 It shall come to pass, that the Lord shall set his hand AGAIN the SECOND time to RECOVER...

Jeremiah 30:3 bring AGAIN my people ISRAEL and Judah, not just Judah. And they shall OWN(possess) it.
32:37 Dwell SAFELY Revelation 21:4, Isaiah 35:10, 65:19

Ezekiel 11:17 the LORD GOD will do so, not the messiah. Revelation 21:1 God made the new City of God and gave them Jerusalem.

it's strange you quote scripture you don't completely understand.

Is it not written, you read many scriptures but they testify of Jesus being Lord and Christ.
Though their many studyings they are unable to grasp the truth.
Though their many readings they deny the power of God.

AvsGot007:
haha
Something created God yeah?
Think deep before you answer that.
I bet you have no idea we are all gods,we are creators as well.

Most don't just have the knowledge.
Like I wrote, you should really read more books than your bible.

and what created that something?

What wisdom is their in thought other than that which was shown and taught unto men.

I won't tell you to think about the answer how about u give an assumption

Like you assumed I read only the bible

* When Messiah comes the Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and sin sacrifices will be fully instituted Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26-27, 45:17-46:16; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21. The Temple was destroyed after the death of J-s.

Sin sacrifices will be what, by who
Definitely not the LORD GOD who says
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. Hosea 6:6

Who was the psalmist writing to in Psalm 51:16
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

Did Prophet Isaiah not write of the LORD's sayings in chapter 1; "I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats...“

What about Prophet Samuel in 1 Samuel 15:22
Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams.

So why should He the Almighty God who in Psalm 50:10 says he owns every animal and cattle, who asks in verse 13 if he eats the flesh and blood of goats?

Wen Proverbs 21:3 tells us what is more acceptable to God.

Do you even understand what it says in Micah 6:6-8

With what shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?” He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
Does Psalm 40:6 mean nothing to you, or did you not read Jeremiah 7:22

Does God's word in Isaiah 66:1-3 mean nothing to you that you would think he wants a new physical temple built by men.

Read Jeremiah 31:31-34

The Lord says, "The time is coming when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of Egypt. Although I was like a husband to them, they did not keep that covenant.
The new covenant that I will make with the people of Israel will be this: I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
None of them will have to teach a neighbor to know the Lord, because all will know me, from the least to the greatest. I will forgive their sins and I will no longer remember their wrongs. I, the Lord, have spoken."

But then you quote Isaiah 2:2 [ b] IN THE LAST DAYS[/b] the mountain of the Lord.. Daniel 2:44-45 God's kingdom and temple, Revelations 21 especially 22 the Lord is our refuge, our rock, our hiding place, our mountain, our temple.

Isaiah 56:7, Revelation 8:3 God's Real House. The Heaven is his throne. All those things in Isaiah will be done when God establishes his kingdom as written in Revelation.

Ezekiel 37:26 God will set Himself in their midst for ever more. Revelation 21 and 22
Ezekiel writes about the complete restoration of God's people, and prophetically about the significance of the occurrences that will unfold then by the shadows understanding and revelation of what is to come.

Mal 3:3 an offering in righteousness, not in self-righteousness but in righteousness acceptable by God an offering pleasing to him as Abel offered unto God what was right and required by God.

Zechariah 14:21, Revelation 21:27

sonmvayina:


I don't really know where to begin education from...I dont want to concur that you are a lost cause..but it is lookinqqg like that..I think a good first step will be for you to see a psychiatrist..asap

your atypical res gestae when K.O'd, splat, on the ground, Satanson!

When Messiah comes there will be Worldwide Reign of Peace and complete end to war Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18. There are still wars upon wars.

Sonmvayina like I said concerning Micah 4:1-4 speaks about the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, look at Micah 1 the first few verses which say the Lord is coming down first to judge the sins then we go through the things that would occur before we get to chapter 4.

Hosea 2 begins with the punishment and then Restoration of God's people and in verses 19 and 20 it writes of Betrothal and in Revelation we read of the wedding of the Lamb and the bride.

Verse 23 shows that God will extend that love to those who were once not part of his people, the gentiles, the outsiders, those whom God will welcome and love because of the new covenant established by the blood of the Lamb.

Isaiah 2, just like Micah 4, speaks of the last days

Isaiah 60:19 the sun will no more be your light, neither the moon.. For it will be the Lord you will be your light and your God will be your glory.

Revelation 21:23 the glory of God and the light of the Lamb. Revelation 22:5 giving light forever and ever.

Like I have said, Jesus is coming back. And yes a false Messiah will appear and be accepted by many, a man of many miracles proclaiming peace but bringing destruction on men, For he will claim to be God and provoke the Almighty GOD.

When Messiah is reigning as King all of the Jewish people will observe Torah Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27. Everyone is not obeying Torah the world is filled with rebellion to the Most High.

Sonmvayina You are right when the Messiah reigns, God's people will observe his commands and keep the covenant.

There was a period between David being anointed king by God and him being accepted as king by men.

And as you rightly pointed as Ezekiel 11:19 God will give us one heart and will put a new spirit in us. And that is the Holy Spirit the promised gift, the seal of salvation.

37:26 and yes Jesus said the peace I give you, not as that of the world. Being a covenant of peace.

When Messiah comes all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true Elohim Zechariah 3:9, 8:23,14:9,16; Isaiah 45:23, 66:23; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 38:23; Psalm 86:9; Zeph. 3:9.

which would be fulfilled but an ideology that will be propagated by an Antichrist using means other than salvation but violence to bring about pseudo -peace.

Zechariah 3:9; the Lord has removed the iniquities of his people by bringing forth his servant the Branch, the Messiah. That my friend in those verses spoke about the congregation of the Lord, the Eklessia.

The term Jew represents those who are of God, which is what happened to the apostles and the first men who heard and believed the message of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior but even at that it is even more to come.

Every prophet and write, spoke and wrote based on the part that was revealed to them uses dark speeches and mysteries has God said he would. God uses the things of earth we know to try and relate the things of heaven and the future we do not know, to paint a picture of what will come.

God will be known in all the earth and his kingdom, his mountain, covers the earth in God's glory.

Before we talk about Zephaniah 3:9, we should first read Zephaniah 3:8 Therefore WAIT YE UPON ME,.. The Lord is coming to judge the eartg of it's wickedness. FOR THEN WILL HE gather his people to serve Him with one heart and one consent.

BlueAngel444:


Sonmvayina You are right when the Messiah reigns, God's people will observe his commands and keep the covenant.

There was a period between David being anointed king by God and him being accepted as king by men.

And as you rightly pointed as Ezekiel 11:19 God will give us one heart and will put a new spirit in us. And that is the Holy Spirit the promised gift, the seal of salvation.

37:26 and yes Jesus said the peace I give you, not as that of the world. Being a covenant of peace.

which would be fulfilled but an ideology that will be propagated by an Antichrist using means other than salvation but violence to bring about pseudo -peace.

Zechariah 3:9; the Lord has removed the iniquities of his people by bringing forth his servant the Branch, the Messiah. That my friend in those verses spoke about the congregation of the Lord, the Eklessia.

The term Jew represents those who are of God, which is what happened to the apostles and the first men who heard and believed the message of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior but even at that it is even more to come.

Every prophet and write, spoke and wrote based on the part that was revealed to them uses dark speeches and mysteries has God said he would. God uses the things of earth we know to try and relate the things of heaven and the future we do not know, to paint a picture of what will come.

God will be known in all the earth and his kingdom, his mountain, covers the earth in God's glory.

Before we talk about Zephaniah 3:9, we should first read Zephaniah 3:8 Therefore WAIT YE UPON ME,.. The Lord is coming to judge the eartg of it's wickedness. FOR THEN WILL HE gather his people to serve Him with one heart and one consent.

How many times did God say the messiah was coming? Was there a second coming arrangement?

If one has any question pertaining to scripture, ask

sonmvayina:
Whose idea was that as per the bolded? This has been our axe ,me and you and me and Dtruthspeaker, when did God concieve this idea ? Of sending "his son"(sic) to as a sin sacrifice.?

It has never been an axe for me... I am afraid you confuse me with your claim. As far as my actual discussions ever with you, I have never broached the subject with you and don't intend to.

BlueAngel444:
I clearly differentiated between God's Commands and Words from Mosiac law that had to do with the temple and priestly functions of blood sacrifice. That is in scripture, and not some myth as you say.
what exactly do you understand by the term Mosaic law?

Again, the Mosaic Laws, all 613 statues(including those that had to do with priestly functons of blood sacrifice, have not ended. It remains an everlasting covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

BlueAngel444:
your last paragraph is a bit contradictory, you have written is to state that the death of Jesus was mainly for the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Um.... the Old covenant required sacrifice for the absolution of sins. The Old Covenant applied to those who were descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Gentiles were not obligated in any way by the Old Covenant... the foreigners who lived among the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,in the land of Canaan, were only required to follow just four laws and nothing more. The Israelites were required to observe all 613 statues of the old covenants.

Jesus Christ did not come to do away with the Old Covenant, He came to provide an alternative path back to God for all. Those who were of Israelites could not simply walk away from the Old Covenant. Jesus Christ's death paid to fulfill their debt to the Old Covenant, so they could then approach God in the New. So, yes, it was mainly for those of the Old Covenant. The Gentiles of the world who were never obligated by the Old, simply had to accept an Obey Jesus Christ to reach God.

BlueAngel444:
Which any average spirit filled bible student would know is wrong but also still write that the gentiles could come to God through Christ. that's confusion

As for your claim above, I welcome you to show us where the need for blood sacrifice came in to the picture as far as God's covenant is concerned. And Where God Himself(even if Through Jesus Christ) tells you that the blood of Jesus Christ was for anything else..

Kobojunkie:
Again, the Mosaic Laws, all 613 statues(including those that had to do with priestly functons of blood sacrifice, have not ended. It remains an everlasting covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Um.... the Old covenant required sacrifice for the absolution of sins. The Old Covenant applied to those who were descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Gentiles were not obligated in any way by the Old Covenant... the foreigners who lived among the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,in the land of Canaan, were only required to follow just four laws and nothing more. The Israelites were required to observe all 613 statues of the old covenants. .

So when God said in
Exodus 12:49

"One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you"

He was joking?

Dtruthspeaker:
So when God said in
Exodus 12:49 "One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger [b] that sojourneth among you"[/b]
He was joking?

Becareful! If you had carefully examined the context within which that verse was presented you, you would have noted the very message and reason for that verse you lifted out there.

Exodus 12 vs 40 - 51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40. The Israelites had lived in Egypt[f] for 430 years.
41. After 430 years, to the very day, all the armies of the Lord[g] left Egypt.
42. The night they left, the Lord watched over them to bring them safely out of Egypt. So the Israelites will always celebrate this night each year to remember what the Lord did.

43. The Lord told Moses and Aaron, “These are the rules for Passover: No foreigner[h] is allowed to eat the Passover meal.
44-45. A foreigner who is only a hired worker or is only staying in your country is not allowed to eat the meal. But if someone buys a slave and circumcises him, then the slave can eat the Passover meal.

46. “Each family must eat the meal in one house. None of the food is to be taken outside the house. Don’t break any of the lamb’s bones.
47. The whole community of Israel must do this ceremony.
48. If a foreigner living among you wants to share in the Lord’s Passover, he must be circumcised. Then he can share in the meal like any other citizen of Israel. But a man who is not circumcised cannot eat the Passover meal.
49. The same rules are for everyone. It doesn’t matter if they are citizens or foreigners living among you.”

50. So all the Israelites obeyed the commands that the Lord gave to Moses and Aaron.
51. On that same day the Lord led all the Israelites out of the country of Egypt. The people left in groups.

Always consult context when reading the word of God. For when you read the verse within it's given context, you gain clear understanding of what God meant when He said He was said.

Kobojunkie:
It has never been an axe for me... I am afraid you confuse me with your claim. As far as my actual discussions ever with you, I have never broached the subject with you and don't intend to.

So do you want to help them? When was the idea conceive by God?

Kobojunkie:
Becareful! If you had carefully examined the context within which that verse was presented you, you would have noted the very message and reason for that verse you lifted out there.

Always consult context when reading the word of God. For when you read the verse within it's given context, you gain clear understanding of what God meant when He said He was said.

I understand Why you think so but you are Wrong. Why? Because you are not aware of
what was God's First Plan of Salvation of Mankind!

Dtruthspeaker:
I understand Why you think so but you are Wrong. Why? Because you are not aware of
what was God's First Plan of Salvation of Mankind!

First plan of salvation of mankind? You mean God made a plan of salvation that already FAILED before Jesus Christ? Come on people!! Stop pretending to know God when you know not!

The explanation for the verse you posted is clearly addressed in the context in which it was provided. What now? You want to suggest there was a plan that FAILED before the plan called Jesus Christ, and somehow that explains why you lifted this here verse out of context and tried to pretend it says something different?

Kobojunkie:
First plan of salvation of mankind? You mean God made a plan of salvation that already FAILED before Jesus Christ? Come on people!! Stop pretending to know God when you know not!

The explanation for the verse you posted is clearly addressed in the context in which it was provided. What now? You want to suggest there was a plan that FAILED before the plan called Jesus Christ, and somehow that explains why you lifted this here verse out of context and tried to pretend it says something different?

oh yes, and you got me!

I am not pretending to know God i do know quite a lot about Him and it is that knowledge that I always share which is that After Noah, He began a Salvation Plan. Check this Out.

1) did you not see, hear and feel the pain in His Voice when He said, He would not destroy the world by water?

2) After that, do you think that He planned on destroying the world?

3) If No in 2 above, was the world not destroyed by the great wickedness of man? If yes, then having destroyed the world, was the wickedness of man, in man also destroyed?

4) What then would God do to solve it or shall He do nothing?

5) What you did not know was that He was searching all over the world, who He Could Use, and thus, He Found Abram!

Genesis 17:10-13, even the rejected one Ishmael, was circumcised, verse 25 and verse 27, strangers were circumcised.

Why the Circumcision? I hope you did not miss verse 24, "he hath broken my covenant"

What covenant? I do hope you know that it is a covenant of Blessings and Goodness and Salvation, whichever may come first.

Let me take shortcut because I know you are smart and I do not like long speeches which is why you see in Exodus 19:5/6 "Kingdom of Priests, an holy nation" and in Peter 2:9.

And this is the basis of all I have said Genesis 12:3 kjv-" ...and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed"

And Christ Jesus still came out of the House of Abraham not another house, in confirmation of God's Word to Abraham of an Everlasting Covenant (Agreement/Contract)

Which was Done and is still being done even today!

Addendum!
I just recalled that you are of the opinion that The Commandments is Strictly for Abraham (Isreal) Alone, if this is so, then you do not have any claim to Abraham's Blessings in singing that song "Abraham's Blessings are mine!"

But if Abraham's Blessings are ours, as we sing, ours must be, his Laws also, for the Blessings are Not without the Law and the Law is not without the Blessings.

They are One!

Dtruthspeaker:
oh yes, and you got me!
I am not pretending to know God i do know quite a lot about Him and it is that knowledge that I always share which is that After Noah, He began a Salvation Plan. Check this Out.

1) did you not see, hear and feel the pain in His Voice when He said, He would not destroy the world by water?
2) After that, do you think that He planned on destroying the world?
3) If No in 2 above, was the world not destroyed by the great wickedness of man? If yes, then having destroyed the world, was the wickedness of man, in man also destroyed?
4) What then would God do to solve it or shall He do nothing?
5) What you did not know was that He was searching all over the world, who He Could Use, and thus, He Found Abram!

Genesis 17:10-13, even the rejected one Ishmael, was circumcised, verse 25 and verse 27, strangers were circumcised.
Why the Circumcision? I hope you did not miss verse 24, "he hath broken my covenant"
What covenant? I do hope you know that it is a covenant of Blessings and Goodness and Salvation, whichever may come first.
Let me take shortcut because I know you are smart and I do not like long speeches which is why you see in Exodus 19:5/6 "Kingdom of Priests, an holy nation" and in Peter 2:9.

And this is the basis of all I have said Genesis 12:3 kjv-" ...and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed"
And Christ Jesus still came out of the House of Abraham not another house, in confirmation of God's Word to Abraham of an Everlasting Covenant (Agreement/Contract)

Which was Done and is still being done even today!
Addendum!
I just recalled that you are of the opinion that The Commandments is Strictly for Abraham (Isreal) Alone, if this is so, then you do not have any claim to Abraham's Blessings in singing that song "Abraham's Blessings are mine!"

But if Abraham's Blessings are ours, as we sing, ours must be, his Laws also, for the Blessings are Not without the Law and the Law is not without the Blessings.

They are One!

Stop playing whack-a-mole with topics. Either focus on one or don't even bother. We were on one topic, but now you have managed to shift between God's plan, circumcision, Abraham's blessings.... arrgh!! Circle back and respond to my very post instead.

Kobojunkie:
Stop playing whack-a-mole with topics. Either focus on one or don't even bother. We were on one topic, but now you have managed to shift between God's plan, circumcision, Abraham's blessings.... arrgh!! Circle back and respond to my very post instead.

I was not trying to do what you are accuse me of, rather I was answering the question by exhibiting to you that it is a Chain with No Severable Independent Part, but a single Continuous Whole!

God's Plan is Not Without the Laws, the Consequences for Obeying and Keeping of the Laws (Blessings), the Consequences for The breach of it (Curses), which Abraham's Descendants Failed to Uphold, Compelling God to make another attempt through the Use of His Son, In Conformity with the First Plan, to wit, Abraham Shall Be a Blessing to All the Families of the Earth!

Genesis 12:3 kjv-" ...and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed"

It can be described as a Plan, Within a Plan!

Dtruthspeaker:


I was not trying to do what you are accuse me of, rather I was answering the question by exhibiting to you that it is a Chain with No Severable Independent Part, but a single Continuous Whole!

God's Plan is Not Without the Laws, the Consequences for Obeying and Keeping of the Laws (Blessings), the Consequences for The breach of it (Curses), which Abraham's Descendants Failed to Uphold, Compelling God to make another attempt through the Use of His Son, In Conformity with the First Plan, to wit, Abraham Shall Be a Blessing to All the Families of the Earth!

Genesis 12:3 kjv-" ...and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed"

It can be described as a Plan, Within a Plan!

that junkie seems to have many accusations but with little appropriate assertions