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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? (1409 Views)
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Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by lonikit: 11:07am On Sep 27, 2020 |
I think alter call has no relationship with salvation. salvation is something that happens in the heart and raising of hands and moving out to the alter during a crusade has nothing to do with it. in fact, it discourages some people because they are used to alter call and yet, no evidence of salvation in their lives. I also think there is no injunction to that in the bible so, why indoctrinating it. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Dtruthspeaker: 11:25am On Sep 27, 2020 |
lonikit: Having thought about it, why do you not stand on it? |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by lonikit: 12:08pm On Sep 27, 2020 |
Dtruthspeaker:just shared my thought, i may/may not be right. i can still learn from others' opinion |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Dtruthspeaker: 12:20pm On Sep 27, 2020 |
lonikit: Are you right? |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by HRHQueenPhil(f): 4:50pm On Sep 27, 2020 |
Alter call is d first step. That public declaration in front of God and d many witnesses show that u truly want this Now it's up to u and also the role of your church to make sure u are taught in detail what u need to sustain and grow ur new found faith Water baptism is d seal as well |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Bluezy13(m): 5:20pm On Sep 27, 2020 |
It is a function of individual perception. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 9:27pm On Oct 02, 2020 |
lonikit:The very term 'altar' ought to be questioned here. Whose altar? Definitely, Jesus Christ never called anyone to set up, let alone step before any altars for His sake, so how could some sort of call to an arbitrary 'altar' have anything to do with Jesus Christ in anyway? 1 Like |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by livingchrist: 9:47pm On Oct 02, 2020 |
No, at all neither is baptism needed to be saved |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 9:54pm On Oct 02, 2020 |
livingchrist:I disagree! I think it is better to be baptized than not to be at all. I myself was baptized by pastors who I believed then and now as liars/charlattans who come in the name of God. I did it because Jesus Christ Himself was baptized, not because of any assumed trust in the hand that carried out the baptism |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by lonikit: 10:10pm On Oct 02, 2020 |
HRHQueenPhil:how does public declaration affect salvation |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 11:45pm On Oct 02, 2020 |
HRHQueenPhil:Public declaration in front of a God who rebukes those who pray to Him in public, commanding instead that His followers go into their closets when they pray to Him? Are you calling God a hypocrite? \ Jesus Christ never called for a "public declaration" of one's faith in God... He never asked you to see 'witnesses' as far a your declaration or relationship with Him and God. So, I think you have the wrong God when you say such things. What baptism is not a seal.... NOT as far as Jesus Christ is concerned. That doctrine and belief is not according to Jesus Christ, and I suggest you throw in the trash all the doctrines you have there that are not in line with Truth as far as Jesus CHrist is concerned, so you can see where the lies end and the truth begin. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by livingchrist: 4:17am On Oct 03, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:Yes, water baptism should be done but, it is not a requirement for salvation. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by jesusjnr2020(m): 4:58am On Oct 03, 2020 |
lonikit:Alter calls has definitely led to the salvation of a few genuine souls no doubt, however I think it is unwise and erroneous to observe it as an indicator for amount of souls saved as many do because it can be very deceptive. So I very well understand where you're coming from. I had a friend who came out for alter call just to get closer to the girl he wanted to date in the choir and sitting in the alter of the church. I had been out for several alter calls myself, but the day I decided to repent and begin to follow God's way, I didn't come out but it was sealed in heaven because it was genuine. That illustrates how deceptive it could be if used as an indicator of saved souls. That's why i'm not a fan of alter calls, that's to call people to come or give them decision cards, but to call them to repentance, so that if they truly do, their actions would confirm it. I don't want to be rejoicing here on Earth while heaven is silent or vice versa because I always as much as possible want to be in sync with what was going on in heaven and not in disagreement. I can only rejoice that someone has repented when the person life confirms that a change has really occurred in it, or God reveals such to me as in the instance of Paul formerly known as Saul. God bless. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 5:19am On Oct 03, 2020 |
livingchrist:According to whom? Jesus Christ, or your Pastors? Jesus Christ was baptized before He started off. That ought to be the end of any debate on this subject since we are called to live as Jesus Christ did. Jesus Christ Himself did not preach a single sermon on baptism or on whether or not it was required or salvation or not, so any claim on either side is false i.e. If it was not taught by Jesus Christ it is not and will never be true. What do we know of the subject? Again, all we know is that Jesus Christ, our one and only teacher, did it, and so we should as FOLLOWERS of Jesus Christ, seek to live as He did, and following His example is all that should matter in this. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by paxonel(m): 5:32am On Oct 03, 2020 |
lonikit:there is also no injunction in the bible to call a Christian to the alter for salvation. Muslims should be called not Christians who are already saved |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 5:38am On Oct 03, 2020 |
paxonel:Salvation according to whom though? Jesus Christ came and preached to those who already claimed to know of God, and not to those who did not believe at all in God. So, where does your idea of Salvation come from? |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by paxonel(m): 5:43am On Oct 03, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:you are not getting it! Jesus Christ came to preach to the Jews who practiced Judaism so that they will join Christianity and be saved. Salvation is through faith |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 5:49am On Oct 03, 2020 |
paxonel:What? Jesus Christ came down to preach to the Jews to save them from Judaism? What? The same Jesus Christ who admitted just before the end that He did not lose any of the ones God in fact gave Him, except for Judas, came to preach to all the Jews to save them? Are you sure of what you are saying? Or are you simply repeating what you have been told without doing your own due diligence in verifying the stories you were told? |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by paxonel(m): 6:00am On Oct 03, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:you want to know whether I'm sure, thats your hope that I'm wrong These are the things you should consider : 1. Before Jesus came, all these disciples you are talking about were all Jews, that means their original religion was Judaism, that was their faith. 2. When Jesus came he told them, have faith in me : meaning, their faith changed the moment they believed. These same disciples were the first apostles of Christianity later after Jesus had ascended, that was the origin of Christianity. So, we are saved by our faith and that faith is Christianity |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by paxonel(m): 6:05am On Oct 03, 2020 |
You Christians you don't think at all, i nor know where una put una brain |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 6:12am On Oct 03, 2020 |
paxonel:But the same Judaism you claim they were "saved" from is still sanctioned by God even to this day and forever will be. So how can one claim that Jesus Christ came to save them from Judaism? And Why did He only save a handful, about 11, according to Him, if He was really intent on "saving them from Judaism"? Heck, one could even say that Jesus Christ 'discouraged' many more from converting to follow Him than He did encourage them to convert and follow Him. I mean how do you win hearts when rather than speaking in plain text to them to convince them of your truth, you choose to speak in parables to them so they would not understand you clearly and hence turn to follow you? That is what Jesus Christ did. If His plan was indeed to get the Jews to turn to Him, He did a lot to sabotage there conversation in many ways. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by paxonel(m): 7:55am On Oct 03, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:read my lips, i did not say they were saved from Judaism, I say God associated with Judaism only at the time it lasted because of the covenant he had with Abraham. the word sanction is not the right one to use as God is not sanctioning anyone for deciding to practice the religion of his choice. Everyone have the right to choose whatever religion, it's a free world. But John 3:36 says He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. That isn't sanction, it's only telling you that the unbeliever will not have life after his death. And while he is yet alive no one is sanctioning him for believing in order religion you mean he should have only one disciple saved if he had intended to save them from Judaism? I'm not getting you like i said, to follow Jesus Christ and become his disciple was a matter of self-will. He didn't force anyone to be his disciple, rather he spoke the truth and they were convinced to become his disciple. Now, there were the Pharisees among the Jews. Unlike the disciples, the Pharisees never had the self-will to believe Jesus even if he had spoken to them in clear terms order than parables. Parables or no parables they will never believe, so what is the need using plan terms? |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 7:21pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
paxonel:God associated with Judaism only at the time it lasted? Again, that is not true! paxonel:The promise God made to Abraham is still in effect to this day meaning what you refer to as Judaism, and I like to call the Old Covenant is still in full operation to this day, and will be forever because that is the deal God made. Note the promise is meant to last forever, so, the reason why even when Jesus Christ came, He made it clear that He did not come to put an end to the Old Covenant or what you call Judaism, but instead to offer a new Covenant (complete with new Yoke, Promises, Blessings, Stipulations, Burden) for those who will choose it. Technically, for those God had chosen for it. paxonel:When I used the word sanction, I meant to apply it's other meaning sanc·tion paxonel: I beg to differ!! If "Saving them all" was the point of what Jesus Christ came for, then yes, He would have at least made sure they had the same chance, but He, Jesus Christ, did not give them all the same chance that He did His disciples. One might ask what the end result of that would have been? It means the Pharisees who did not believe in Jesus Christ, did not receive eternal life and so perished/ceased to exist once they died like the rest of the unbelievers out there continue to. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Nobody: 8:07pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
lonikit: I think it has a great significance cos it means you have officially renounce the devil and accepted Christ before two or three witnesses. More like openly shaming the devil and proclaiming Christ as your Lord and savior. When you say no evidence in someone who openly accepted Christ, you're wrong because while savation is instant, the change you expect to see takes a while which requires sanctification, a gradual process which works on the persons' character to change them overtime. So that you don't see an instant change doesn't mean they are not saved. Shalom. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by paxonel(m): 8:08pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. literally, the trees in this parable refers to covenants in the past between God and man which includes that between God and Abraham. As God was about to set up a new covenant through Christ, all these other covenants which includes that of Abraham were cut down making them null and void. So choose one! Do you belong to Christ or you belong to Abraham? The Jews challenged Jesus John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? ... But Jesus responded John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. So, Jesus is the way the truth and the life, not Abraham or Muhammed or any other prophet and that promise has been fulfilled in Christ, where is then the place of Abraham? that wasn't real. Infact, it was the shadow of things to come. And the thing to come was the new covenant through Christ. Hebrews 10:1 ok exactly! But there was equal chance for everyone to decide and the Pharisees had decided not to believe, there was nothing anyone could do. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by petra1(m): 8:10pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
lonikit: Altar call is a prayer of salvation. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 8:29pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
paxonel:I think you need to be careful the way you go about looking to inserting additional meaning where it does not exist. The verse in Matthew 3 vs 1o you quoted where the words of John the Baptist, and he was a follower of the Old Covenant, not Jesus Christ, the new Covenant. John was in no way referring to the Old Covenant. John the Baptist never discouraged people from following the Old Covenant, not even after his encounter with Jesus Christ. John never insinuated God was attempting to turn back on His word, or Change His mind. The Old Covenant is the same covenant that bore the Fruit called Jesus Christ. Was He not a good fruit hence? When Jesus Christ lived, even He lived His life in obedience to the Old Covenant, so how can the Old Covenant that God Himself, in His wisdom, set up, be considered a bad tree? Again, I suggest caution as you look at these things. John the Baptist was speaking to the Pharisees, so it makes sense to assume that they were the trees He was referring to since Trees don't live forever, but Covenants are forever. paxonel:Where is the place of Abraham? I don't understand your question. Abraham was not even a prophet of God but a man who came to God, eventually becoming God's friend. So, why ask where his place is? Jesus Christ is the Word out of God's own Mouth(Truth) who was made flesh and given t us to not only teach us but show us exactly what it is that God wants us to do in obedience of Him in other for us to quality as Sons of God. Why compare Him to anyone like Abraham or Mohammed to begin with? Jesus Christ is God's human avatar...the embodiment of God's new Covenant, the eternal life promised to all those who accept Him, and the Only way to God. Why compare the promise that the New Covenant brings to the Old covenant promise which, as you should have read are two completely different promises and for two completely different sets of people. Jesus Christ fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant on behalf of those who would choose to leave it and follow Him. Obviously, they could not simply walk out on the covenant without being damned by their acts, that is why Jesus Christ came and lived as He did to buy them from the Old Covenent so they could walk into the New Covenant without consequence. We, the gentiles however, were never bound to the Old Covenant so we were and still are free to engage the New Covenant without consequence. Only consequence comes when we attempt to leave the New Covenant that we have chosen. paxonel:Shadow of what? Not according to God Himself and certainly not according to Jesus Christ, who even while He lived, encouraged people to continue to obey the Law, and live according to the ways that God had instructed them. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by damosky12(m): 8:51pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
Alter calls are Biblical. However, no one becomes a mature believer by only responding to them. Indeed, the Bible speaks about believing and Confessing the lordship of Jesus: Romans 10:9-10 [9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. However, spiritual maturity comes from deliberate commitment to a real church, where you can learn God's word. Ephesians 4:12-13 [12]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 9:02pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
damosky12:Nowhere in any of those verses you posted did even Paul call for a public confession of sins, and he certainly did not include a reference to an altar in any of what he suggested there. So keep searching for your biblical support for "Altar" calls. |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by damosky12(m): 10:05pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: Calm down. You don't need to be combative. Forget about the term "alter call." It's a term that's only peculiar to our age. The idea, which is to get sinners affirm their belief in the gospel, is Biblical. The portion I cited supports BELIEVING and CONFESSING. That's what an alter call ascertains too. We find similar instances with the early church. Acts 19:18-19 [18]And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. [19]Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. It is simply a call to salvation. This resonates throughout the history of the early church in Acts. No one can explain it away! |
Re: Opinion: Does Alter Call Have Any Significant Role In Salvation? by Kobojunkie: 10:11pm On Oct 03, 2020 |
damosky12:That idea itself is not according to what Jesus Christ Himself taught. The believing and confessing of sins were not meant to be for public consumption. The idea of "calling people up" was not according to the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself, and certainly not what Paul suggested in the references you put forth earlier. damosky12:Did the disciples in fact "CALL" the people in that passage to do make public their confessions and all they did? Or did the people, of their own mindset, do what is described in the passage you picked out there from the book of Acts? |
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